I really hope that the price will be affordable. As a college student in the American Economy (and in ministry) I have a limited amount of money, none to be exact. Since it will not be a total revamping of the OS, I hope they won't make the price as a new OS.
Interesting! Ive only gotten back into using Macs last year and was under the impression that quartz Extreme only accelerated the lower level primitives. But if the GPU is doing more than that then it is a pleasant surprise.
Some things were only enabled in Leopard though. PDF rendering is part of Quartz 2D but wasn't hardware rendered until 10.5 where Quartz 2D Extreme was enabled but named Quartz GL. If you compare opening a complex PDF between Tiger and Leopard, the difference is quite significant. 10.4 can hang for a few seconds rendering pages and stutters dragging through the document but Leopard is very smooth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Yeah this I understand and I would expect them to support new hardware going forward. What I'm hoping for is that old hardware (relatively new actually) like mine will be supported. I've seen nothing so far indicating how far back OpenCL and video acceleration support will go. I know my video card is capable but that is not the same thing as saying Apple will support OpenCL on it.
Basically any series 8 Nvidia Geforce card or higher is supported and any ATI card that Apple have used in the Intel machines besides the X1600 is supported. No intel integrated chips are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2
I don't think you know if it's a "minor feature" or not.
Sure it seems trivial, but the fact that they dropped this popular feature when they moved to OS-X, and haven't implemented it since even though people have been asking for it, kind of argues against the idea that it's a minor feature or easy to do.
Maybe it's hard to do (or to do right). Maybe they had to wait for a Cocoa finder to do it.
They are minor in the same way that Finder grid spacing is minor.
The move back into place is trivial. File meta data makes this easy. Inside the Finder app, you just check if destination is a trash folder and store the source path in meta data. When you move back into place, read in the meta data again.
You could store the changes in a file somewhere but then you have to track movements inside other folders. In fact, it doesn't even have to be limited to movements to the trash folder, each file could just remember the last path it was moved from. This way the undo stack knows where every file was.
The Stacks behavior is easy too as it's just filesystem navigation and they've done it better in previous systems. Stacks doesn't work for me as it doesn't do shortcuts. I want to be able to make a Stack out of a pile of files I drag to the Dock. For example a group of favorite documents that are scattered all over the place.
... They are minor in the same way that Finder grid spacing is minor.
The move back into place is trivial. File meta data makes this easy. Inside the Finder app, you just check if destination is a trash folder and store the source path in meta data. When you move back into place, read in the meta data again. ..
Granted, but this is what Ctrl-Z does now though.
I was assuming that it would be a "true" restore in the sense of remembering the folder hierarchy, and replacing that hierarchy etc. and that this might of course be harder. It seems to me this would require a data store somewhere or snapshots or some such, but I am not up on the technical details so perhaps you are right.
I really hope that the price will be affordable. As a college student in the American Economy (and in ministry) I have a limited amount of money, none to be exact. Since it will not be a total revamping of the OS, I hope they won't make the price as a new OS.
If it's a free update, Apple could make a fortune, because the current Mac owners
dancing in the streets would attract the attention of millions of drowsy Windows users,
who would then buy shiny, new Apple products just to get in on the party!
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
I don't think you know if it's a "minor feature" or not.
Sure it seems trivial, but the fact that they dropped this popular feature when they moved to OS-X, and haven't implemented it since even though people have been asking for it, kind of argues against the idea that it's a minor feature or easy to do.
Maybe it's hard to do (or to do right). Maybe they had to wait for a Cocoa finder to do it.
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
I don't see what carbon libraries have to do with a pane in System Preferences. You could always change the Show/Hide Dock shortcut to whatever you want, it's just that the interface is now different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmndos
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
This feature existed (known then as "put away") in Mac OS 5.x-9.x, if not before. It was gone from OS X for some reason, now it's back. It was pretty lazy from Apple that it took so long to "put back" this feature (pun intended?) but this point about Windows 95 having it before Snow Leopard is pretty moot considering that the Mac OS had it at least 6 years before. In this particular case, it's not the OS X becoming more like Windows, it's like OS X becoming like the Classic Mac OS in this respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmndos
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Then don't use it, set your stacks to display as lists. It's not like Apple spent 10,000 man/hours to add this particular feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmndos
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Preview icons are not gone, they're still working just like Leopard, what's gone (maybe temporarily) is the ability to play videos and audio directly in the icon without having to open Quicklook. (Not that useful if you ask me)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmndos
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
Apple Remote Desktop is a full featured remote managing program that is meant to use across large networks. It certainly does more than a dumb VNC client/server combo.
If you simply want to control your Mac remotely, you don't need Apple Remote Desktop, any Leopard system can be controlled with a standard VNC client (or via iChat screen sharing) without having to install/buy anything on the host Mac.
The advantage would be that you can "put back" a misplaced file that you have noticed several hours or days of Finder navigation and manipulation later. Command-Z undoes the last file-folder manipulation only.
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
So... Apple adds a feature to OS X that it had previously, just has chosen not to implement yet and it is becoming Windows? If you want to say 'copying' or whatever, be my guest. But I don't think you know what you are talking about when you say Mac OS X is becoming Windows. More the other way around.
So... Apple adds a feature to OS X that it had previously, just has chosen not to implement yet and it is becoming Windows? If you want to say 'copying' or whatever, be my guest. But I don't think you know what you are talking about when you say Mac OS X is becoming Windows. More the other way around.
Not to mention that it is a feature present in Apple's OS prior to OS X.
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
Well I did say "maybe" and I don't think this is a good comparison. Different code, different OS, different development tools etc.
I was just posing a possible reason why something has been on Apple's to do list since 2001 hasn't been done. I find most people usually assume "because they don't care" as the answer in cases like this, but that hardly ever turns out to be accurate in the end.
Everyone that has used OS-X for any length of time knows that the Finder kinda sucks and was basically cobbled together out of gum and old string. The fact that it's being re-written in Cocoa right now and this feature is finally coming back *might* be significant is all I'm saying.
...and could give Apple at least a decade head start over the competition. Mind blowing innovation in human factors that finally makes computers usable with the same instinctive nature as pen and paper.
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
And it's a piece of crap. Or should I say, a work in progress piece of crap?
Until KDE 4.3 most of Dolphin's "functionality" is still hit or miss. There is a reason KDE 4.2 is still in Experimental, within Debian.
And seeing like 99.9% of the folks on here know nothing of Apple Engineering it should be clear that only a small team ever works specifically on a portion of the OS, at a time.
Finder doesn't have hundreds of engineers working on it. It has a few HIG folks who coordinate with a couple architects that interface between several teams within Apple that deal with AppKit, Foundation, Security and more.
Now when Plasma stops crapping out I'll be impressed. The File-Open, Save As dialogues in KDE 4.2 still continue to crash certain daemons in KDE because much of the infrastructure is still a "work in progress."
That crap won't fly when someone spends $129 for an OS. The "it's free as in beer" crap is just that, crap. Billions have been poured into Linux, Gnome, Trolltech, KDE and more.
There are thousands of KDE part-time developers that commit weekly to KDE Digest. It's coming along, but it's definitely far from being on par with OS X's desktop environment.
Let's not forget that those thousands of coders leverage thousands of other paid developers heavy lifting from the kernel [linux, freebsd, openbsd, netbsd, opensolaris, et.al] up through filesystems, to X-Windowing, to device driver development, etc.
Apple covers everything from the low to the most high. KDE doesn't compare in size.
Comments
Interesting! Ive only gotten back into using Macs last year and was under the impression that quartz Extreme only accelerated the lower level primitives. But if the GPU is doing more than that then it is a pleasant surprise.
Some things were only enabled in Leopard though. PDF rendering is part of Quartz 2D but wasn't hardware rendered until 10.5 where Quartz 2D Extreme was enabled but named Quartz GL. If you compare opening a complex PDF between Tiger and Leopard, the difference is quite significant. 10.4 can hang for a few seconds rendering pages and stutters dragging through the document but Leopard is very smooth.
Yeah this I understand and I would expect them to support new hardware going forward. What I'm hoping for is that old hardware (relatively new actually) like mine will be supported. I've seen nothing so far indicating how far back OpenCL and video acceleration support will go. I know my video card is capable but that is not the same thing as saying Apple will support OpenCL on it.
Basically any series 8 Nvidia Geforce card or higher is supported and any ATI card that Apple have used in the Intel machines besides the X1600 is supported. No intel integrated chips are.
I don't think you know if it's a "minor feature" or not.
Sure it seems trivial, but the fact that they dropped this popular feature when they moved to OS-X, and haven't implemented it since even though people have been asking for it, kind of argues against the idea that it's a minor feature or easy to do.
Maybe it's hard to do (or to do right). Maybe they had to wait for a Cocoa finder to do it.
They are minor in the same way that Finder grid spacing is minor.
The move back into place is trivial. File meta data makes this easy. Inside the Finder app, you just check if destination is a trash folder and store the source path in meta data. When you move back into place, read in the meta data again.
You could store the changes in a file somewhere but then you have to track movements inside other folders. In fact, it doesn't even have to be limited to movements to the trash folder, each file could just remember the last path it was moved from. This way the undo stack knows where every file was.
The Stacks behavior is easy too as it's just filesystem navigation and they've done it better in previous systems. Stacks doesn't work for me as it doesn't do shortcuts. I want to be able to make a Stack out of a pile of files I drag to the Dock. For example a group of favorite documents that are scattered all over the place.
... They are minor in the same way that Finder grid spacing is minor.
The move back into place is trivial. File meta data makes this easy. Inside the Finder app, you just check if destination is a trash folder and store the source path in meta data. When you move back into place, read in the meta data again. ..
Granted, but this is what Ctrl-Z does now though.
I was assuming that it would be a "true" restore in the sense of remembering the folder hierarchy, and replacing that hierarchy etc. and that this might of course be harder. It seems to me this would require a data store somewhere or snapshots or some such, but I am not up on the technical details so perhaps you are right.
I really hope that the price will be affordable. As a college student in the American Economy (and in ministry) I have a limited amount of money, none to be exact. Since it will not be a total revamping of the OS, I hope they won't make the price as a new OS.
If it's a free update, Apple could make a fortune, because the current Mac owners
dancing in the streets would attract the attention of millions of drowsy Windows users,
who would then buy shiny, new Apple products just to get in on the party!
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
I don't think you know if it's a "minor feature" or not.
Sure it seems trivial, but the fact that they dropped this popular feature when they moved to OS-X, and haven't implemented it since even though people have been asking for it, kind of argues against the idea that it's a minor feature or easy to do.
Maybe it's hard to do (or to do right). Maybe they had to wait for a Cocoa finder to do it.
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
New Keyboard Shortcuts Preference Pane
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
I don't see what carbon libraries have to do with a pane in System Preferences. You could always change the Show/Hide Dock shortcut to whatever you want, it's just that the interface is now different.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
This feature existed (known then as "put away") in Mac OS 5.x-9.x, if not before. It was gone from OS X for some reason, now it's back. It was pretty lazy from Apple that it took so long to "put back" this feature (pun intended?) but this point about Windows 95 having it before Snow Leopard is pretty moot considering that the Mac OS had it at least 6 years before. In this particular case, it's not the OS X becoming more like Windows, it's like OS X becoming like the Classic Mac OS in this respect.
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Then don't use it, set your stacks to display as lists. It's not like Apple spent 10,000 man/hours to add this particular feature.
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Preview icons are not gone, they're still working just like Leopard, what's gone (maybe temporarily) is the ability to play videos and audio directly in the icon without having to open Quicklook. (Not that useful if you ask me)
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
Apple Remote Desktop is a full featured remote managing program that is meant to use across large networks. It certainly does more than a dumb VNC client/server combo.
If you simply want to control your Mac remotely, you don't need Apple Remote Desktop, any Leopard system can be controlled with a standard VNC client (or via iChat screen sharing) without having to install/buy anything on the host Mac.
Granted, but this is what Ctrl-Z does now though.
The advantage would be that you can "put back" a misplaced file that you have noticed several hours or days of Finder navigation and manipulation later. Command-Z undoes the last file-folder manipulation only.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
Apple had this in 1995 as well. It didn't start going missing until around 2001.
The site's not loading the video.
These features would be really cool, I've missed the limited stacks in Leopard, but I would still like those quick-look icons.
I was wondering when there was going to be a put back feature for the trash. I've used it many times when I was in XP but never saw it in Mac.
And, when are they going to give it a good wallpaper?! I mean dark pink outerspace?!
Just right click or control click on the video link and download it to your computer. It plays fine in QuickTime. Here is the link: http://s.worldofapple.com/snowleopard_stacksfolders.mov
New Keyboard Shortcuts Preference Pane
-Looks like they rewrote the carbon library, as it contained the functionality hide the dock and the taskbar. I wonder if they will fix the misisng documentation on the apple site, as it raises a 404. Good that there are some decent objective-c (extremely FEW) that backup their dev resources.
New Put Back Function
-Wow, this is missing ??, even windows has had this functionality since 1995.
-Another way apple is becoming windows
Navigating Folders in Stacks
-What use is this, I friggin hate the stacks, and I thought the program folding in linux and windows pissed me off.
Quicklook
-Gone !? WTF, even windows has these preview icons.
-I guess this will be a $29.95 addon
Quicktime Pro Inclusive
-This would be surprising, since apple remode desktop by itself is $500.
So... Apple adds a feature to OS X that it had previously, just has chosen not to implement yet and it is becoming Windows? If you want to say 'copying' or whatever, be my guest. But I don't think you know what you are talking about when you say Mac OS X is becoming Windows. More the other way around.
So... Apple adds a feature to OS X that it had previously, just has chosen not to implement yet and it is becoming Windows? If you want to say 'copying' or whatever, be my guest. But I don't think you know what you are talking about when you say Mac OS X is becoming Windows. More the other way around.
Not to mention that it is a feature present in Apple's OS prior to OS X.
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
Well I did say "maybe" and I don't think this is a good comparison. Different code, different OS, different development tools etc.
I was just posing a possible reason why something has been on Apple's to do list since 2001 hasn't been done. I find most people usually assume "because they don't care" as the answer in cases like this, but that hardly ever turns out to be accurate in the end.
Everyone that has used OS-X for any length of time knows that the Finder kinda sucks and was basically cobbled together out of gum and old string. The fact that it's being re-written in Cocoa right now and this feature is finally coming back *might* be significant is all I'm saying.
Not.
Oh dear.
Now where is my 7" iPod Touch?
Over on the Linux side they developed a completely new file manager (Dolphin) for the latest version of the desktop environment KDE 4 and it had a restore functionality since its initial release. Oh, and the software was developed by a single developer in his spare time. So Apple with its hundreds of developers and billions of cash is not capable of implementing a feature which other file managers had for over a decade?
And it's a piece of crap. Or should I say, a work in progress piece of crap?
Until KDE 4.3 most of Dolphin's "functionality" is still hit or miss. There is a reason KDE 4.2 is still in Experimental, within Debian.
And seeing like 99.9% of the folks on here know nothing of Apple Engineering it should be clear that only a small team ever works specifically on a portion of the OS, at a time.
Finder doesn't have hundreds of engineers working on it. It has a few HIG folks who coordinate with a couple architects that interface between several teams within Apple that deal with AppKit, Foundation, Security and more.
Now when Plasma stops crapping out I'll be impressed. The File-Open, Save As dialogues in KDE 4.2 still continue to crash certain daemons in KDE because much of the infrastructure is still a "work in progress."
That crap won't fly when someone spends $129 for an OS. The "it's free as in beer" crap is just that, crap. Billions have been poured into Linux, Gnome, Trolltech, KDE and more.
There are thousands of KDE part-time developers that commit weekly to KDE Digest. It's coming along, but it's definitely far from being on par with OS X's desktop environment.
Let's not forget that those thousands of coders leverage thousands of other paid developers heavy lifting from the kernel [linux, freebsd, openbsd, netbsd, opensolaris, et.al] up through filesystems, to X-Windowing, to device driver development, etc.
Apple covers everything from the low to the most high. KDE doesn't compare in size.