<strong>for each unillegal copy</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean each legal copy? Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Also, you're right teachers do not have a lot of extra money to throw away on software. I think this is a good move considering the fact that education is still an important market for Apple.
It's not unfair at all-I'm an artist and I do computer work-I pay for all my software-I often skip meals to buy new software-I went to college before computers were common so everything I know I've taught myself.mainly through going out buying the software then buying books etc.One application I would love to have is Mathematica-but it's very expensive-$1500-but then I see that anyone who happens to be in school can use it for about $100 a year-this is the case with a lot of high end software-I think it is completely unfair-I'm not asking for a handout-but I get angry seeing people get something for free or for little money that I had to make serious sacrifices to get.But what should I care-if what I am working on pans out it will be the kind of thing that people teach about-such is the price of taking risks.
They will get teachers hooked on OSX and then those teachers will then spread the word to students, administrators, and tech purchasing groups.
I am a teacher and I know when the email went out to the staff at my work regarding this (free jaguar), I was flooded with requests from the mac using teachers, wondering if this would be right for them (they know I am already on X).
As per teachers/schools getting a discount... I think that all software companies should reconsider their educational costs.... possibly eliminating them. This is a huge opportunity for them to market and train future customers on their products. The amount of marketing they get is amazing!!!!, and yet they charge the schools??? I run one of only two Mac labs in a school of almost 2000 students. I have had so many students convert from PC to mac that I think apple should be paying me to have their products in the schools. The rate has increased since moving to OSX.
Example.... almost no schools run Quarks, PageMaker was our only choice because quarks educational cost was 3-4X that of Pagemaker. Most of us wanted Quarks but cost is a major factor. So because of this Adobe gets all of the training and exposure. Students have little to no idea of what Quarks is... now that inDesign is out. We are moving to inDesign. Same cost discrepancy, so any kid coming out of my school will want to use inDesign over Quarks. Andif they come out of Desktop Publishing they will also want to use a Mac over a PC... So I continually ask myself why comapnies shoot themselves in the foot by charging such high rates for education.
The teachers in the PC labs in my school can not afford Photoshop or Illustrator, so they use Corel. Because of this I get students later signing into my courses with the misconception that Corel is a better peice or equivent piece of software. (this is quickly corrected, but if they go out into the market they will have a predisposition to buy a corel product.... note: I don't want to slam Corel too much, they make some decent software, but it is not close to Adobe in quality.)
FCP is selling macs. Once a kid uses that piece of software they always ask me "Is it available for PC?" When they find out it isn't they then ask "How much is a Mac?" If Apple would give FCP away to schools they would eliminate Premiere and drastically increase their sales to a new generation. I know of three students this year that have made the switch becuse of FCP.
Almost every student that comes into my class, come in hating macs, because their last experiance with a mac was such an old piece of crap, while the PC lab next to them had been pumped with funds to keep them near the cutting edge. They think Macs are crap, because that is all they experianced. After a couple of weeks using a modern Mac, then they begin to switch...
I have seen this over and over again... But yet schools have to paylarge sums of money to get students to switch to Apple.. it boggles the mind.
As per teachers getting breaks. They do not use the software to make money for themselves, they will never see a single dollar because they buy a piece of software from a company, they are paid on salary. Their proficiency on any software is too easy to fake to an administrator. So they will never loose their jobs if they become outdated. Why not give it to the teachers for free, so that the companies can get free marketing and the students can exit schools with knowledge.
The alternative, is poorly skilled students and teachers.
as per taking risks...
Give me a break, walk into a school for a day and see what goes on. Try stand up infront of 30+ sleep deprived, underfed, oversexed and often drugged out students with a bunch of substandard limited equipment. They are just waiting to see you screw up so they can quickly point it out to you. Or better yet they go and tell everyone about that one screw-up so that the general public can make exagerated claims about teacher compentancy. I have done your job as a "artist", it is a cushy job incomparison to teaching. Don't challange me with the ingnorant adage, "that those that can't do teach", I am always amazed looking at my colleagues and wondering why they are not out in industry making real money. But since I know teachers personaly I can inform you that "those that teach, teach because they want to feel like they make a difference in the world". And the students I deal with every day, give me hope for the future. I go home knowing that when I get old and grey these will be the people running the world. And for the most part I feel good about it.
Can you go home each day feeling that you made a difference in someones life? Can you go home feeling good about the future of the world?
That is why we do it.
It is definately not for the money.
And it is definately not because we can't do something else.
In PA, where I live, teachers make more than the national average. A starting teacher in South Eastern PA (it is a different story elsewhere) in a public school can expect to make Between 33,000-40,000 his first year. This is considered one of the highest paid areas in the nation concerning education. That's why there is no teacher shortage.
Elsewhere, it is a different story. Many schools in the mid-West and the South start below $24,000, and top out after 30 years in the mid fifities (salary wide). Here, I'll top out, in today's dollars, at about $70,000.
REMEMBER, we are talking about people who go to four or five years of college to get their degree, pay hundreds of dollars to get certified, have continung education requirements that rival the medical or law professions, and deal with large numbers of kids for 7-8 hours a day.
Now, not to condescend, but those of you who haven't yet started working for a living may not realize that $40K a year doesn't buy a lot anymore. Teacher's are paid more fairly around my area, but it still doesn't compare to other professions.
[quote] I'm an artist and I do computer work-I pay for all my software-I often skip meals to buy new software-I went to college before computers were common so everything I know I've taught myself.mainly through going out buying the software then buying books etc. <hr></blockquote>
I hear you--I work in the arts as well, and there have been many years when the average teacher made a lot more than I did. So I can understand your frustration.
At the same time you have to recognize that teaching is a public service, and as public servants teachers make a lot of life sacrifices to serve their communities which cannot be repaid.
As an artist it can be argued we work in the public interest as well, but it isn't really the same--it varies from artist to artist, and for some of us we'll actually be rewarded (some quite handsomely) by society with money and fame. Not many have that happen, but the opportunity does exist.
Teachers are more like the police and firefighters, but generally paid less than either of those groups...and I think being upset that they've gotten something for free is a little churlish.
I'm not knocking teaching at all-I still don't think it's fair that others should get free software when I have to pay full price-in a situation where I've already paid for several earlier,very buggy versions of said software.Those starting salaries are still what I would consider good money,and I've been in the real world for quite some time.
<strong>I'm not knocking teaching at all-I still don't think it's fair that others should get free software when I have to pay full price-in a situation where I've already paid for several earlier,very buggy versions of said software.Those starting salaries are still what I would consider good money,and I've been in the real world for quite some time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fair enough. I think Apple charging what they did for Jag is ridiculous. I wasn't going to buy it.
As for "good money".....that's not really true. It's *OK* money. It isn't good money when you compare it to other white-collar professions that require the same education and continuing education. The other problem is that when adjusted for inflation, teacher's salaries have barely increased at all in the last 10 years. It is "good" money when compared to what a secretary makes, or a social worker. That's about it.
[quote] I still don't think it's fair that others should get free software when I have to pay full price <hr></blockquote>
It's crazy...you may have discovered that life is not actually fair. I suggest you contact a newspaper immediately with this news.
As for your own complaints about purchasing OS X and finding it buggy, that makes sense--log a complaint with Apple, harass them and seek satisfaction for yourself.
[quote] It's crazy...you may have discovered that life is not actually fair. I suggest you contact a newspaper immediately with this news. <hr></blockquote>
Comments
<strong>for each unillegal copy</strong><hr></blockquote>
Also, you're right teachers do not have a lot of extra money to throw away on software. I think this is a good move considering the fact that education is still an important market for Apple.
Since that is such a blatantly stupid thing to say, I have to ask what the hell it is you do?
They will get teachers hooked on OSX and then those teachers will then spread the word to students, administrators, and tech purchasing groups.
I am a teacher and I know when the email went out to the staff at my work regarding this (free jaguar), I was flooded with requests from the mac using teachers, wondering if this would be right for them (they know I am already on X).
As per teachers/schools getting a discount... I think that all software companies should reconsider their educational costs.... possibly eliminating them. This is a huge opportunity for them to market and train future customers on their products. The amount of marketing they get is amazing!!!!, and yet they charge the schools??? I run one of only two Mac labs in a school of almost 2000 students. I have had so many students convert from PC to mac that I think apple should be paying me to have their products in the schools. The rate has increased since moving to OSX.
Example.... almost no schools run Quarks, PageMaker was our only choice because quarks educational cost was 3-4X that of Pagemaker. Most of us wanted Quarks but cost is a major factor. So because of this Adobe gets all of the training and exposure. Students have little to no idea of what Quarks is... now that inDesign is out. We are moving to inDesign. Same cost discrepancy, so any kid coming out of my school will want to use inDesign over Quarks. Andif they come out of Desktop Publishing they will also want to use a Mac over a PC... So I continually ask myself why comapnies shoot themselves in the foot by charging such high rates for education.
The teachers in the PC labs in my school can not afford Photoshop or Illustrator, so they use Corel. Because of this I get students later signing into my courses with the misconception that Corel is a better peice or equivent piece of software. (this is quickly corrected, but if they go out into the market they will have a predisposition to buy a corel product.... note: I don't want to slam Corel too much, they make some decent software, but it is not close to Adobe in quality.)
FCP is selling macs. Once a kid uses that piece of software they always ask me "Is it available for PC?" When they find out it isn't they then ask "How much is a Mac?" If Apple would give FCP away to schools they would eliminate Premiere and drastically increase their sales to a new generation. I know of three students this year that have made the switch becuse of FCP.
Almost every student that comes into my class, come in hating macs, because their last experiance with a mac was such an old piece of crap, while the PC lab next to them had been pumped with funds to keep them near the cutting edge. They think Macs are crap, because that is all they experianced. After a couple of weeks using a modern Mac, then they begin to switch...
I have seen this over and over again... But yet schools have to paylarge sums of money to get students to switch to Apple.. it boggles the mind.
As per teachers getting breaks. They do not use the software to make money for themselves, they will never see a single dollar because they buy a piece of software from a company, they are paid on salary. Their proficiency on any software is too easy to fake to an administrator. So they will never loose their jobs if they become outdated. Why not give it to the teachers for free, so that the companies can get free marketing and the students can exit schools with knowledge.
The alternative, is poorly skilled students and teachers.
as per taking risks...
Give me a break, walk into a school for a day and see what goes on. Try stand up infront of 30+ sleep deprived, underfed, oversexed and often drugged out students with a bunch of substandard limited equipment. They are just waiting to see you screw up so they can quickly point it out to you. Or better yet they go and tell everyone about that one screw-up so that the general public can make exagerated claims about teacher compentancy. I have done your job as a "artist", it is a cushy job incomparison to teaching. Don't challange me with the ingnorant adage, "that those that can't do teach", I am always amazed looking at my colleagues and wondering why they are not out in industry making real money. But since I know teachers personaly I can inform you that "those that teach, teach because they want to feel like they make a difference in the world". And the students I deal with every day, give me hope for the future. I go home knowing that when I get old and grey these will be the people running the world. And for the most part I feel good about it.
Can you go home each day feeling that you made a difference in someones life? Can you go home feeling good about the future of the world?
That is why we do it.
It is definately not for the money.
And it is definately not because we can't do something else.
Examples:
In PA, where I live, teachers make more than the national average. A starting teacher in South Eastern PA (it is a different story elsewhere) in a public school can expect to make Between 33,000-40,000 his first year. This is considered one of the highest paid areas in the nation concerning education. That's why there is no teacher shortage.
Elsewhere, it is a different story. Many schools in the mid-West and the South start below $24,000, and top out after 30 years in the mid fifities (salary wide). Here, I'll top out, in today's dollars, at about $70,000.
REMEMBER, we are talking about people who go to four or five years of college to get their degree, pay hundreds of dollars to get certified, have continung education requirements that rival the medical or law professions, and deal with large numbers of kids for 7-8 hours a day.
Now, not to condescend, but those of you who haven't yet started working for a living may not realize that $40K a year doesn't buy a lot anymore. Teacher's are paid more fairly around my area, but it still doesn't compare to other professions.
Some stats:
<a href="http://www.aft.org/research/survey01/index.html"; target="_blank">AFT survey</a>
Interesting read. Here's another:
<a href="http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/digest2001/tables/dt077.asp"; target="_blank"> here </a>
[ 10-19-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I hear you--I work in the arts as well, and there have been many years when the average teacher made a lot more than I did. So I can understand your frustration.
At the same time you have to recognize that teaching is a public service, and as public servants teachers make a lot of life sacrifices to serve their communities which cannot be repaid.
As an artist it can be argued we work in the public interest as well, but it isn't really the same--it varies from artist to artist, and for some of us we'll actually be rewarded (some quite handsomely) by society with money and fame. Not many have that happen, but the opportunity does exist.
Teachers are more like the police and firefighters, but generally paid less than either of those groups...and I think being upset that they've gotten something for free is a little churlish.
<strong>I'm not knocking teaching at all-I still don't think it's fair that others should get free software when I have to pay full price-in a situation where I've already paid for several earlier,very buggy versions of said software.Those starting salaries are still what I would consider good money,and I've been in the real world for quite some time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fair enough. I think Apple charging what they did for Jag is ridiculous. I wasn't going to buy it.
As for "good money".....that's not really true. It's *OK* money. It isn't good money when you compare it to other white-collar professions that require the same education and continuing education. The other problem is that when adjusted for inflation, teacher's salaries have barely increased at all in the last 10 years. It is "good" money when compared to what a secretary makes, or a social worker. That's about it.
It's crazy...you may have discovered that life is not actually fair. I suggest you contact a newspaper immediately with this news.
As for your own complaints about purchasing OS X and finding it buggy, that makes sense--log a complaint with Apple, harass them and seek satisfaction for yourself.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />