I've never seen any evidence that HP is using recycled motherboards. In fact, HP uses the same Chinese suppliers as Apple.
As for the power supply, HP uses just the right power supply for their computers. I changed a graphic card, but never needed to change the power supply on my HP desktop. In some scenarios, I guess that you may need a new power supply if you rebuild your computer with power hungry components. But then, you'd be better off with a brand new computer.
I must say that the HP quality seems to be better than Apple, judging by the number of Apple product recalls and warranty extensions. The myth of the Apple quality is just a myth that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
You pay more for an Apple computer because Apple's senior management is overpaid through stock options. That's the sad truth.
If HP quality is so great, why the heck are they ranked so low for consumer satisfaction?
I am almost embarrassed by the fact that Apple refuses to offer a decent graphics card for a decent price. People can act like gaming is niche, but it's not. And if they don't address it by at-least providing a BTO option then one day they find there market share severely plateaued.
Thankfully I don't care for desktops... but that hardly fixes the problems in the notebook line.
Apple can only charge what people are willing to pay. People are willing to pay because they are brainwashed, or they gain enough value to offset the extra up-front cost.
I use XP on a ThinkPad (required work machine), Leopard on a MacBook Pro, Tiger on a G4, and Vista on an eMachines laptop. (The eMachines was $299 - primarily for my kids so I wouldn't care if they broke it. They also use the Macs but don't move them around.)
For me, using iLife and other apps on Mac OS X have clearly been worth the extra cost. The amount of time wasted on XP is embarrassing. [By the way, I was writing this earlier, but XP (running Firefox, Outlook, and Excel only) crashed, and I had to pull the battery out. I'm using the ThinkPad because my kids are camped out on the Macs.]
No doubt there are many who bought Macs as fashion, or due to hype. But they are by no means the majority.
really ??
whats the difference in $$$$ amount between that MBP and the laptop you bought. I guess the work machine was 'free'
if you think that the difference is worth it then we have different ideas on value and won't agree. Each to their own I guess.
with knowledge and experience, and the right hardware, any XP or Vista box can and is at least as stable as any Leopard box. Ubuntu blows them both away of course.
I didn't assert anything, merely stated that for a company that sells (relatively) few computers they get a lot of accolades that they maybe don't deserve. The perception (which is a big part of what Apple is) is that they are a big player..when in reality they are niche....at best.
Apple deservingly gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. Southwest gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. By the time many big companies get accolades, they are already coasting and rotting on the inside.
Quote:
If Windows 7 comes out and is what Vista should have been then with current prices and hardware the switching trend will slow and probably reverse.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
Quote:
I think you are right about Apple though. They don't really want a bigger marketshare for loads of reasons, not least of which is the 'cool,hip' factor of being 'small'. I suspect they are trying to get a bigger wallet share of their existing base rather than making the base larger and obtaining less per user.
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
Quote:
Just if I was a major investor I'd want them to be doing something with that cash warchest to generate more income or give it back to me. The markets will always want growth after all.
Even without throwing the cash out the window on useless research and unattractive products like other companies, Apple is generating so much growth that it made a top 10 list, alongside 9 tiny companies. It's a good thing, though, that you're not a major investor since by your comments, you prove that you really don't understand Apple at all.
I didn't assert anything, merely stated that for a company that sells (relatively) few computers they get a lot of accolades that they maybe don't deserve. The perception (which is a big part of what Apple is) is that they are a big player..when in reality they are niche....at best.
If Windows 7 comes out and is what Vista should have been then with current prices and hardware the switching trend will slow and probably reverse.
I think you are right about Apple though. They don't really want a bigger marketshare for loads of reasons, not least of which is the 'cool,hip' factor of being 'small'. I suspect they are trying to get a bigger wallet share of their existing base rather than making the base larger and obtaining less per user.
Just if I was a major investor I'd want them to be doing something with that cash warchest to generate more income or give it back to me. The markets will always want growth after all.
Yes I'm sure Mac users will all start moving back to virus riden Windows 7, which is lipstick on a pig.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
Who says?
You?
If they can switch to Apple so easily they can switch back, if the conditions are right (not saying they are).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
It's a lot easier to get switchers than you think when you make a 'good' OS and are at the bottom of the market while your competitor at the top does jack shit for half-a-decade.
Apple deservingly gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. Southwest gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. By the time many big companies get accolades, they are already coasting and rotting on the inside.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
Even without throwing the cash out the window on useless research and unattractive products like other companies, Apple is generating so much growth that it made a top 10 list, alongside 9 tiny companies. It's a good thing, though, that you're not a major investor since by your comments, you prove that you really don't understand Apple at all.
1/ Innovate by using integrated graphics again..is that progress? The only truly innovative I can think of is the iphone touchscreen and that was by implementation not invention. Even iPod concept was bought in and well marketed (as is every product they make) Real world innovation is thin on the ground.
2/ Not only will it reverse but it in some places it has! Netbooks are the growth area and Apple has nothing there. You have to remember aswell that they have much greater catchment potential for switchers as their sales are so meagre compared to the overall market.
3/ They do sell cheap crap...just in a fancy Ive's box. The foxconn components in a Mac aren't unique or any better. How do you think they achieve 30% margin wholesale?
4/ The primary purpose of the Apple store near me is to deal with all the complaints and returns...seriously they queue for hours!
5/ Your right I don't understand Apple. I just see them pushing their whole digital lifestyle connected vision to people, some of whom accept it. The more savvy people know that you can do it all a different way and save loads of money. Bit like life in general!
Comments
If you are on a budget you shouldn't be looking at any of Apple's products seriously.
take a look around at the world in which we live....
I've never seen any evidence that HP is using recycled motherboards. In fact, HP uses the same Chinese suppliers as Apple.
As for the power supply, HP uses just the right power supply for their computers. I changed a graphic card, but never needed to change the power supply on my HP desktop. In some scenarios, I guess that you may need a new power supply if you rebuild your computer with power hungry components. But then, you'd be better off with a brand new computer.
I must say that the HP quality seems to be better than Apple, judging by the number of Apple product recalls and warranty extensions. The myth of the Apple quality is just a myth that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
You pay more for an Apple computer because Apple's senior management is overpaid through stock options. That's the sad truth.
If HP quality is so great, why the heck are they ranked so low for consumer satisfaction?
90% of Apples' recent success is down to Vista and 10% down to Apple.
And remember that *success* is relative Apple will sell approx 12m machines in a market that overall worldwide will comprise approx 260m machines.
perspective...
Yeah and virus ridden machines.
Thankfully I don't care for desktops... but that hardly fixes the problems in the notebook line.
Apple can only charge what people are willing to pay. People are willing to pay because they are brainwashed, or they gain enough value to offset the extra up-front cost.
I use XP on a ThinkPad (required work machine), Leopard on a MacBook Pro, Tiger on a G4, and Vista on an eMachines laptop. (The eMachines was $299 - primarily for my kids so I wouldn't care if they broke it. They also use the Macs but don't move them around.)
For me, using iLife and other apps on Mac OS X have clearly been worth the extra cost. The amount of time wasted on XP is embarrassing. [By the way, I was writing this earlier, but XP (running Firefox, Outlook, and Excel only) crashed, and I had to pull the battery out. I'm using the ThinkPad because my kids are camped out on the Macs.]
No doubt there are many who bought Macs as fashion, or due to hype. But they are by no means the majority.
really ??
whats the difference in $$$$ amount between that MBP and the laptop you bought. I guess the work machine was 'free'
if you think that the difference is worth it then we have different ideas on value and won't agree. Each to their own I guess.
with knowledge and experience, and the right hardware, any XP or Vista box can and is at least as stable as any Leopard box. Ubuntu blows them both away of course.
Yeah and virus ridden machines.
Only for people who are (pardon the term) 'techno-noobs'.
No need to punish those who aren't.
Is there another company whose most devout followers enjoy getting financially shafted so much.???
The ridiculous profit margin is worn like a badge of honour by the mac heads. Do they not realise it is them fuelling it??
..speechless.
Yeah we like paying for Apple's overpriced computers, at least we don't have to deal with virus ridden Windows computers.
Yeah and virus ridden machines.
good AV is free on Windows, I don't get your point..?
maybe 'cos you don't have one..??
ah....got it.
really...??
with a bit of knowledge the difference in time spent is non existent.
osx isn't worth the hardware price premium or the limiting choices (IMO)
You're either flamebaiting or you just truly, do not get it.
Regardless, based on your past responses you spoke much but said little.
I didn't assert anything, merely stated that for a company that sells (relatively) few computers they get a lot of accolades that they maybe don't deserve. The perception (which is a big part of what Apple is) is that they are a big player..when in reality they are niche....at best.
Apple deservingly gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. Southwest gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. By the time many big companies get accolades, they are already coasting and rotting on the inside.
If Windows 7 comes out and is what Vista should have been then with current prices and hardware the switching trend will slow and probably reverse.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
I think you are right about Apple though. They don't really want a bigger marketshare for loads of reasons, not least of which is the 'cool,hip' factor of being 'small'. I suspect they are trying to get a bigger wallet share of their existing base rather than making the base larger and obtaining less per user.
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
Just if I was a major investor I'd want them to be doing something with that cash warchest to generate more income or give it back to me. The markets will always want growth after all.
Even without throwing the cash out the window on useless research and unattractive products like other companies, Apple is generating so much growth that it made a top 10 list, alongside 9 tiny companies. It's a good thing, though, that you're not a major investor since by your comments, you prove that you really don't understand Apple at all.
Yeah we like paying for Apple's overpriced computers, at least we don't have to deal with virus ridden Windows computers.
neither do 'we'
stupid people will have bad things happen to them regardless of what platform they use.
You're either flamebaiting or you just truly, do not get it.
Regardless, based on your past responses you spoke much but said little.
there's nothing to 'get'
that IS the point.
I am only posting my opinion, its' a forum based on experience.
agree to disagree>??
read much....??
I didn't assert anything, merely stated that for a company that sells (relatively) few computers they get a lot of accolades that they maybe don't deserve. The perception (which is a big part of what Apple is) is that they are a big player..when in reality they are niche....at best.
If Windows 7 comes out and is what Vista should have been then with current prices and hardware the switching trend will slow and probably reverse.
I think you are right about Apple though. They don't really want a bigger marketshare for loads of reasons, not least of which is the 'cool,hip' factor of being 'small'. I suspect they are trying to get a bigger wallet share of their existing base rather than making the base larger and obtaining less per user.
Just if I was a major investor I'd want them to be doing something with that cash warchest to generate more income or give it back to me. The markets will always want growth after all.
Yes I'm sure Mac users will all start moving back to virus riden Windows 7, which is lipstick on a pig.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
Who says?
You?
If they can switch to Apple so easily they can switch back, if the conditions are right (not saying they are).
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
It's a lot easier to get switchers than you think when you make a 'good' OS and are at the bottom of the market while your competitor at the top does jack shit for half-a-decade.
Yes I'm sure Mac users will all start moving back to virus riden Windows 7, which is lipstick on a pig.
Wow! There's a beta and already it's virus ridden? News to me.
Only for people who are (pardon the term) 'techno-noobs'.
No need to punish those who aren't.
Yes I'm sure those 'techno-noobs' are the reason why Windows is a virus ridden mess.
neither do 'we'
stupid people will have bad things happen to them regardless of what platform they use.
Yeah that's why you hear about virus being a number concern on the Mac platform.
Apple deservingly gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. Southwest gets attention not because they are big but because they innovate and push the boundaries. By the time many big companies get accolades, they are already coasting and rotting on the inside.
The switching trend will not reverse. Mac users are unlikely to go back to Windows, but Windows XP/Vista users might be willing to "switch" to 7.
You suspect wrong. They don't want bigger marketshare by selling cheap crap or selling expensive stuff with no margins. But the primary purpose of the Apple stores was to increase switching. Five years later, you still haven't caught on no matter how many times Apple has made that point in their conference calls.
Even without throwing the cash out the window on useless research and unattractive products like other companies, Apple is generating so much growth that it made a top 10 list, alongside 9 tiny companies. It's a good thing, though, that you're not a major investor since by your comments, you prove that you really don't understand Apple at all.
1/ Innovate by using integrated graphics again..is that progress? The only truly innovative I can think of is the iphone touchscreen and that was by implementation not invention. Even iPod concept was bought in and well marketed (as is every product they make) Real world innovation is thin on the ground.
2/ Not only will it reverse but it in some places it has! Netbooks are the growth area and Apple has nothing there. You have to remember aswell that they have much greater catchment potential for switchers as their sales are so meagre compared to the overall market.
3/ They do sell cheap crap...just in a fancy Ive's box. The foxconn components in a Mac aren't unique or any better. How do you think they achieve 30% margin wholesale?
4/ The primary purpose of the Apple store near me is to deal with all the complaints and returns...seriously they queue for hours!
5/ Your right I don't understand Apple. I just see them pushing their whole digital lifestyle connected vision to people, some of whom accept it. The more savvy people know that you can do it all a different way and save loads of money. Bit like life in general!
Wow! There's a beta and already it's virus ridden? News to me.
Yeah all those millions of viruses on Windows will all dissapear once the "saviour" Windows 7 lands.
Yeah that's why you hear about virus being a number concern on the Mac platform.
no point writing viruses for such a tiny install base.