Jon Stewart exposes Apple stock manipulation

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  • Reply 81 of 155
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,087member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post


    For stock manipulation. Are you unable to comprehend the article or are you unwilling?



    Forgive me for interpreting, but as Cramer was talking it seemed to me he was "role playing" what a trader would be thinking. He was not outlining his personal strategies. He was guiding the audience through a situation to give it some background.
  • Reply 82 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palomine View Post


    Maybe finally somebody will sue the idiot CNBC station. If I had a nickel for every family argument those creeps caused with their manipulation I'd be rich.



    I agree in certain respects in that, from a moral perspective, I think it's wrong for these organizations to disseminate information that is basically just rumor and innuendo. Then again, where is it we are all having this conversation?



    What really needs to happen is for the SEC to eliminate the aspects of the system that allow high-volume investors to profit so handsomely from manipulating a given stock. Specifically, the SEC needs to extend the ban on naked short positions, and they need to reinstate the uptick rule. These two regulatory lapses by themselves have allowed large $ investors to engineer and profit from downward moves of a stock in a huge way. Essentially, when used in a coordinated and widespread manner (which I think it is evident from Cramer's statements that they are), they allow the market as a whole to be directed in a sort of pump and dump on a quasi-national scale.



    If the SEC would eliminate the regulatory vacuum that allows such huge profits to be had by engineering even modest downward moves in a stock, I suspect there would be a lot less temptation in the market to do it, and we'd probably see some stability in stock prices as well.



    Just my opinion.



    Take care.
  • Reply 83 of 155
    gmhutgmhut Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    Yup, it's clear that the new fundamentals of the American economy are about finding loopholes in the system to exploit for quick gain rather than fostering the creation of innovative businesses which provide goods and services the world actually wants/needs.



    Is it any wonder that no one has faith in the American economy these days? I guess it's really no surprise that in a country where the importance of media & entertainment are placed so far above education & rational thought, the pinnacle of success is based on strategic manipulation of public opinion rather than actually building a strong, competitive business.



    Thank you! You said succinctly what I was trying to say. Getting away with something because you know how to manipulate the letter of the law is a far cry from doing what is right because it is the right thing to do. That is especially repulsive if you tout yourself as the voice crying in the wilderness, as Cramer would have us believe he is now.



    Here's the deal:



    For far too long our nation's wealth has been based on a paper chase. That being, the perception of wealth = wealth. Wrong. What we are seeing is the prolonged illusion of the dot-com bubble of the 90s coming to its final culmination. Eventually, you can't make nothing, then sell that nothing to fools, then pretend nothing sold to suckers, is the same as productivity. Bernie was the ultimate metaphor for where we are now. Our economy over the last 8 years, banking, mortgage, all of it was a Ponzi scheme designed to make the rich richer, and the poor (read middle class) poorer. It was, to use neocon terminology, the most pathetic backwards "transfer of wealth" since the West Indies Trading Company plundered the lands of natives (OK, that was a bit dramatic, but it sounded impressive in my head). That being, those who produce, give the fruits of their labor to those who take under the guise of a "free market"—slavery in the 21st century—or at best a modern day feudal system. Truly shameful—the only thing that trickles down, is shite.
  • Reply 84 of 155
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Forgive me for interpreting, but as Cramer was talking it seemed to me he was "role playing" what a trader would be thinking. He was not outlining his personal strategies. He was guiding the audience through a situation to give it some background.



    He admitted he did this, generating "activity" to protect his market position and characterizing the activity as "fiction". When he touts himself as an expert and tells people "but of course you have to do it..." then he's clearly no longer in the "don't try this at home" camp. Absent crystal balls, plain old people will do what the experts suggest.



    And I don't buy the "Bear Stearns lied to me" defense - if Cramer's such a financial whiz, then he had lots more than the Bear Stearns' boss' "thumbs up" to go on. Broader than that, Stewart's original premise was that the highly promoted collective brain trust of financial experts at CNBC have spent the last four months with their collective thumbs in a very dark place wondering what just happened. And specifically, Cramer repeatedly telling people that their money was safe *in* Bear and safe *with* Bear, all mere weeks before it folded. That's very very bad financial advice. There must be a reason Cramer repeatedly said those things about Bear, and "yeah well he told me!" is a very very weak reason for someone of his supposed expertise.



    And then there's the several times he said he could have done a better job of seeing the collapse coming. Hint - that means he did a lousy job and chose not to do a better job. That's very very bad, considering the faith people put in him.
  • Reply 85 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post


    You don't seem to realize what you're talking about. They would bash it to then BUY it before it went back up.



    Not really. They milk it. The strategy is to short it on the way down then buy in the trough, ride it up, and then dump the stock at the peek, then engineer another drop. Rinse and repeat. This is basically the "sharks" gobbling up the "dumb money" (this is their terminology, not mine).



    When they say "dumb money", by the way, what they mean is grandma's 401K and your kid's college tuition - basically the hard earned dough of anyone in a long position. Some of these guys consider anyone so daft as to long a stock to be deserving of having their money swiped.



    My armchair diagnosis is this: several administrations soft on regulatory compliance have allowed the markets to become one gigantic casino, and the big money is running the house. The objective: snooker your retirement / college money / etc. away from you if at all possible. The system is just fundamentally broken, not because it has to be or because it is somehow just fatally flawed, but because greed, incompetence, and a rabid almost irrational free-market ideology have allowed it to get that way.



    I sincerely hope the Obama administration makes good on its promises to get some regulation back into the system, because in the absence of it the market has turned. We've gone from a place where the market was a wealth creator fundamentally intended to capitalize companies so they can innovate and create to drive the real economy... to a parasitic system that openly rewards graft and cronyism, and which is essentially driven by finding new and better ways to screw the majority of investors while rewarding the few. And, I might add, all at the expense of both individual investors and our economy as a whole.



    These guys are pirates, and the name of the game is "rape and pillage", just as it has always been. The only way to put the house back in order is to close the cookie jar.



    Again, just my opinion.



    Take care.
  • Reply 86 of 155
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,259member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesmall View Post


    You are pretty much on target with that quote. Especially the part about Stewart.



    You and Beelzebob strike me as day traders, because your history about technology is ZERO.
  • Reply 87 of 155
    rolorolo Posts: 686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beelzebob View Post


    Actually, Jim Cramer is the one who broke this news, not Jon Stewart. Jon Stewart just replayed a video that has been on youtube for 4 months, made by theStreet.com and clearly intended for public consumption, to describe to anyone who cared to listen how hedge funds operate. Before jumping to conclusions, watch the video for yourself, without Stewart's filter:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfWSRuNm6do



    I don't know who's right or wrong here... I like both guys (Stewart and Cramer), but I think it's important that people at least research the facts themselves before anyone gets crucified. (Oops, too late.) It sure seems to me that Cramer is trying to inform people as to what is going on, not engaging in some sinister conspiracy, which is how some people seem to be taking it.



    This is correct. How could anyone not know that Cramer has been trying to inform people about hedge fund shenanigans for years. Stewart wasn't angry with Cramer about the Apple manipulation, he was angry with those who condone it like the sycophants on CNBC.



    BTW, that Cramer video was actually from a couple of years ago. Someone posted it on YouTube last year but I saw the original video in 2007, IIRC. It was a nice exposé of hedge fund dirty tricks.
  • Reply 88 of 155
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Sorry, but when a schmuck like Stewart rails on a schmuck like Cramer, to me it's just one moron lambasting another. I think Stewart is very funny, and Cramer is pretty entertaining himself. But Stewart is as much of a mouthpiece for the liberal shit-throwing cause as Cramer is for the wall street profiteering cause. Both causes are unethical at best. Stewart needs to get his head out of his ass. Cramer is disingenuous on the surface, but at least he has a blog that seems to tell the whole story.
  • Reply 89 of 155
    stubeckstubeck Posts: 140member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ttupper View Post


    Not really. They milk it. The strategy is to short it on the way down then buy in the trough, ride it up, and then dump the stock at the peek, then engineer another drop. Rinse and repeat. This is basically the "sharks" gobbling up the "dumb money" (this is their terminology, not mine).



    When they say "dumb money", by the way, what they mean is grandma's 401K and your kid's college tuition - basically the hard earned dough of anyone in a long position. Some of these guys consider anyone so daft as to long a stock to be deserving of having their money swiped.



    My armchair diagnosis is this: several administrations soft on regulatory compliance have allowed the markets to become one gigantic casino, and the big money is running the house. The objective: snooker your retirement / college money / etc. away from you if at all possible. The system is just fundamentally broken, not because it has to be or because it is somehow just fatally flawed, but because greed, incompetence, and a rabid almost irrational free-market ideology have allowed it to get that way.



    I sincerely hope the Obama administration makes good on its promises to get some regulation back into the system, because in the absence of it the market has turned. We've gone from a place where the market was a wealth creator fundamentally intended to capitalize companies so they can innovate and create to drive the real economy... to a parasitic system that openly rewards graft and cronyism, and which is essentially driven by finding new and better ways to screw the majority of investors while rewarding the few. And, I might add, all at the expense of both individual investors and our economy as a whole.



    These guys are pirates, and the name of the game is "rape and pillage", just as it has always been. The only way to put the house back in order is to close the cookie jar.



    Again, just my opinion.



    Take care.



    Sorry for the confusion, but we're talking about different things. The twit I was responding to was saying the only reason they went after Apple was because Microsoft was involved. I agree with what you said (its what I was trying to say, but I didn't clearly state it).
  • Reply 90 of 155
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Some people are trying to manipulate the stock down, some people (including the author of this article) are trying to manipulate the stock up.



    It's funny to see one group claim the moral high-ground over the other.
  • Reply 91 of 155
    Jon is getting pretty amazing comments around the news front. Many of the reader comments are positive, too. There is the occasional "how can a comedian..." and the occasional "Cramer is so amazing", but all in all people are pretty impressed by the interview, and more importantly, Jon's preparation and conduct (no yelling like on Fox). Maybe the MSM can learn a thing or two; yes, a comedian outdid them, hands down.
  • Reply 92 of 155
    About the lack of investigative journalism in general, well, there's a little printer's ink in my veins, though I didn't get into the family business. I did for a number of years serve as a source for local and regional reporters. Your average reporter does only that, report. They are not about to "burn" a source, because to do so would be professional suicide. Their ability to file stories regularly is heavily reliant upon their ability to pick up the phone (showing my age here) and get to say, an aide for a governor or senator. The more they play by the rules, the better their chances of getting quotes directly from the politician. Ask tough questions, come into an interview armed and ready and it might well be the last interview you'll get.



    We really do need people at the top of organiztions like CNBC to make a greater commitment to investigative journalism. Without it, every time they quote someone or "interview" someone, they run the risk of perpetuating falsehoods, lies that without their help, would have much less impact on the lives of the very people they purport to serve.
  • Reply 93 of 155
    boss1boss1 Posts: 40member
    Didn't Jon Stewart have a show on CNN recently (or currently)? I never got a chance see a single show. I wanted to see if the show was a comedy show or something else.
  • Reply 94 of 155
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post


    I don't need to do what? FWIW, I happen to be someone - probably a rare person these days - who votes for whom I think is the best candidate, not because they have a big D or R stamped on them (2 sides of the same coin for the most part). I used to watch Stewart almost "Daily" until his political bias distracted too much from his humor. With so much low-hanging comedy fruit to harvest from both the left and the right, it annoyed me that Stewart seldom touched on scandals or incompetence coming from the Dem side of the aisle, and when it came to his nightly guests, he always seemed to be fawning over liberal guests and sticking it to conservative guests. Just pull up YouTube videos when he interviewed Obama vs. McCain, for example.



    That's the way I see it, anyway. As to my political bias, I don't care if gays marry or not (it doesn't threaten my marriage), I'm pretty much pro-choice, I'm not religious, I believe in a strong military, and I believe in a government where most of the power resides at the city / county / state level, not the federal level, among other things. Maybe not your cup of tea across the board, but them's the breaks :-)



    Are you one of those conservatives who always claim to vote for the best candidate who happens to always be conservative (kinda like how Bill Oreillly is independent yet he can always find far-left webites but he can never find a far right website). No need to pretend.. frankly, no one cared who you vote for or voted for until you brought it up.. no need to lie now.
  • Reply 95 of 155
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    If you don't want to get ripped off by a financial advisor, don't use one. Decide for yourself what companies to invest in. If they don't have our money they can't play these leveraging games.
  • Reply 96 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macshark View Post


    There is a nice little cell next to Madoff's for Cramer?



    I hear there's a glory hole, too!
  • Reply 97 of 155
    Just in case any one needs to see some confirmation that Jim Cramer didn't make the trades he is discussing in that video, and that he hadn't been trading for several years at that point (or if you just want to see an interesting (albeit soft) discussion of the debate by some guys with some knowledge on the topic):



    http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/208063/Cramer-vs.-Stewart-Post-Fight-Analysis?tickers=TSCM,VIA,JPM,BAC,WB,^DJI,^GSPC
  • Reply 98 of 155
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macshark View Post


    There is a nice little cell next to Madoff's for Cramer?



    I hope you are being facetious about comparing Madoff and Cramer. Even if Cramer had shorted stocks and then sent panic through the masses with his TV show (which I can find no evidence of), what Madoff did was so much worse.
  • Reply 99 of 155
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,259member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I hope you are being facetious about comparing Madoff and Cramer. Even if Cramer had shorted stocks and then sent panic through the masses with his TV show (which I can find no evidence of), what Madoff did was so much worse.



    Degrees of white collar felony crime where one cannot measure the extent is hard to define. Cramer addresses millions of viewers. Madoff has thousands of clients. If millions of fans take his advice and lose billions it's a wash.



    The difference currently centers around Madoff already being convicted and Cramer being the face of Hedge funds may or may not be investigated on white collar felony crimes.



    Cramer isn't taking it too seriously if you watched his show yesterday. He completely mocked the Daily Show. He has zero professionalism. He whined like a 5 year old and then goes on his show and continues to act like an ass clown.
  • Reply 100 of 155
    dmzdmz Posts: 5,775member
    I think that anyone who has read AAPL's coverage at thestreet.com would have picked up on this. They've had it in for the company for a long time -- I stopped reading that site a year or two ago.
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