Some of the things you said in your earlier post are irrelevant to the enterprise market. For example, the fact that the phone has a physical keyboard or not is irrelevant to the enterprise. Tons of the business people that I know of are happy with the virtual keyboard on the iPhone. I actually type much faster on my iPhone than on my Treo 650. I've never had a Blackberry so I can't comment much on that, but I don't think it will make me type much faster than on my old Treo.
Second, doing decent quality video is even more irrelevant to the enterprise market. To me, you're just justifying your complaints on your second posts after you made the complaints.
Finally, locking the device is pain in the ass, but this has been the situation for years in the States and the majority of smartphones are locked. Don't get me wrong, I think that the US carrier's habit of locking phones are horrible and I agree with you on this. However, you somewhat over magnified the fact that iPhone is locked on to AT&T while not mentioning the fact that most smartphones out there are locked as well. In fact, most IT guys in big companies are not that concern about the locking issues, which to me is a bad thing.
I've worked in IT for years. One company I worked for, large, had cell BlackBerry's/SmartPhones for all the carriers to support where users lived, and to ensure good reception. T-Mo BB's didn't work on AT&T, and vice-versa. This is not just Apple/iPhone, its all of them as you mentioned. I guess I don't understand why some folks get upset that the iPhone only works on AT&T. Last I checked the BB Storm doesn't work on AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mo; guess RIM are a bunch of SOB's? lol
My HTC Touch Pro (sprint) has background app capability
I wonder how many have sold.
Quote:
it can do decent quality video
You have to have pretty low standards to call video quality from a mobile phone decent. Some mobile phone video may be better than others, at best I would call them all different shades of crap.
It only requires the expansion of the gesture set with the addition of appropriate buttons to the UI to enable, at the very minimum, global text select, copy and paste
And that gesture set should not be expanded willy-nilly without user testing. Other than the security sandboxing issue, I don't think anyone is saying C&P is a technical implementation issue for the iPhone, it's primarily a UI design issue.
Thank you for figuring this out for us. Without your extremely detailed and highly informed thesis we all would have never known this. We should get the word out to other people who use the iPhone every day and have not figured out that it was launched prematurely and is underpowered. We should inform them of the other phone that does everything the iPhone can do even better. Wait, which phone is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
Either the iPhone was launched prematurely, before the OS contained the features that would make the iPhone more than a cute and expensive gadget, or the iPhone is underpowered. At this point, I am inclined to believe that both are true, i.e. the iPhone is underpowered and it's software is immature.
That the iPhone is underpowered should come as no surprise as it reflects the sorry state of Mac desktops (which carry older, slower, mobile, dual core Core 2 Duo CPUs instead of the newer desktop or mobile quad cores such as Core 2 Quads and Core i7).
To guarantee its 50% profit margins on iPhones, Apple is using older, cheaper, slower components which go against its new found description of the iPhone as a "gaming platform".
I've worked in IT for years. One company I worked for, large, had cell BlackBerry's/SmartPhones for all the carriers to support where users lived, and to ensure good reception. T-Mo BB's didn't work on AT&T, and vice-versa. This is not just Apple/iPhone, its all of them as you mentioned. I guess I don't understand why some folks get upset that the iPhone only works on AT&T. Last I checked the BB Storm doesn't work on AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mo; guess RIM are a bunch of SOB's? lol
I think the real issue with crying foul on the US Phone's carrier lock-in is not that other phones don't have it, but that the exclusive deal with the iPhone is unprecedented in duration. The US is very familiar with vendor/carrier exclusivity rights, but lasting 2 years was unheard of.
To break free from the profit sharing deal it is rumoured that Apple had to agree to another 2 years. If true, I don't think this bothers Apple as they don't seem to want to support different models to support CDMA or the T-Mobile radio frequencies doesn't seem to fit them. Sure, they could add both CDMA and GSM, as well the radios for T-Mobile 3G, but that is extra cost and more bulk to the HW for a gain that only really benefits the US at this time. Though China does has a large CDMA user-base, which I think is the only way that a CDMA iPhone will ever get considered for the US.
On top of that, I think the iPhone is the only cell phone that AT&T will not unlock after your contract is completed. Luckily Pwnage team are very dedicated to SW cracking the iPhone and go out of there way to not charge a dime for the service.
And that gesture set should not be expanded willy-nilly without user testing. Other than the security sandboxing issue, I don't think anyone is saying C&P is a technical implementation issue for the iPhone, it's primarily a UI design issue.
Not to sound pedantic (which means I'm about to ), but finding the right way to implement the UI is a technical issue from my POV.
No, no it's not. Read the posts about us that stating it's an major hurdle. We have explained the pitfalls of trying to implement a desktop OS method on a finger gestured touchscreen.
Regarding you suggestion of using the trackpad to tap here is an example. You are currently in a web browser, if you want to copy a word I have to click two to get the word to highlight. But on the iPhone that would zoom the page. You can triple click to copy the whole line but you can't copy a part of word or certain words with that method. For that you'll need the accuracy of the mouse pointer and the holding of the mouse/trackpad button. As if that wasn't enough, you then have to be able to copy the text and then be able to paste it somewhere.
A more direct example... Try to copy only a few letters from the word below withOUT using the keyboard or pressing the physical mouse/button.
• IMPOSSIBLE
First of all, do you know how to select a chunk of texts (not just one word) using the touchpad with just one finger and without the need of additional physical or virtual buttons? If not, then ask before making any definite statement or else it will make you look ignorant. From the post you made, you obviously don't know how.
I have to make myself clear here. I've only said that the SELECTING texts issues is solved already with the current touchpad technology, not the copy-and-paste feature, which still requires addtional buttons on laptops. I've been only talking about SELECTING texts using the touchpad with one finger and without the need of any additional physical or virtual button. Somehow Solipsism challenged me to do copy which I've never claimed I can without the assistance of additional button. I do hope Solipsism can read someone's post more carefully before replying something irrelevant to what I've been saying earlier.
Selecting a chunk of text using the touchpad with one finger is more than just double tapping. You people are so stuck with the fact that double tapping would zoom in, but overlooking the fact that iPhone will not invoke zoom in when your finger does not leave the screen immediately on the second tap. When you finger tap the touchpad for the second time without leaving it, this will invoke the selecting function. When you finish selecting, just tap the touchpad again and the texts are selected. This method has been on the laptop for years and this does not conflict with any gestures on the iPhone.
Some of you might argue that the screen will scroll which conflict with the action of selecting. No, it's not. Once you tap the screen the second time without leaving the screen, this will invoke a cursor to selecting text mode and stop the scrolling mode, like the magnifying glass on the iPhone to select where you want to input text. Once you finished selecting text and tap the screen one more time, this will turn the phone back to scrolling mode.
The Palm Pre is vaporware. Until its a shipping product it doesn't have a level yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
He also hints that many of the software efforts in the year since iPhone 2.0 will bring the device up to the level of the Palm Pre, which while unreleased has a number of software advantages over Apple's platform.
Doesn't everyone claim to have a friend that knows it all? Kevin Rose didn't know what he was talking about when he worked at TechTV. Probably would be more believable if his so called friend provided screenshots from the developer build.
When you finger tap the touchpad for the second time without leaving it, this will invoke the selecting function.
Just like I stated in post #31 of this thread and linked to a video detailing the difficulties and a possible how to in post #33. But in post #65 you state that this problem is solved, without the need for a keyboard or complicated input, implying that it's simple. Now you are changing your story stating that you'll have to do something different, like holding on the second tap. Of course, this on't select text but now allow you an interface to highlight text to copy. Do you see that it's not the same software to make this happen from the PC to a touchscreen using fingers as input? Watch the video, it's worth it.
The selection gesture will be tap-and-hold. There will be clearer distinction between selection and possible dialog call (note, picture is indeed selected now first, when copied from the web, then the dialog appears). Copy-paste operations will be triggered either by dialog buttons, or by swipe gestures.
And the number of hold downs will determine what is selected: section-sentence-word-some characters under lens...
why not do it the way the newton did? tap/hold to start the selection, drag to select, tap and drag the selection to the edge of the screen to put it in the clipboard?
[...] I think the iPhone is the only cell phone that AT&T will not unlock after your contract is completed. Luckily Pwnage team are very dedicated to SW cracking the iPhone and go out of there way to not charge a dime for the service.
I never had any interest in jailbreaking my original iPhone but after June and presumably when I get a new iPhone, I may jailbreak my old one or maybe just sell it on Craigslist/eBay.
Laptops have mouse pointers to allow selection of any types of blocks, iPhone does not. Laptops do not employ tapping event to zoom, iPhone does.
That's not an issue at all. Just look how iPhone is able to select where users want to input texts with the magnify glass. That's the cursor. The iPhone only invokes the cursor, sort to speak, when it needs it.
It is an issue, you just don't understand it. A cursor is a pixel accurate pointing device. Your finger covers a large number of pixels and is not accurate at all. The software has to figure out exactly which pixels you are intending to select, that is not a simple problem to solve.
The BlackBerry Storm has touch screen copy and paste, every review has said its terrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit
That's not an issue at all. Just look how iPhone is able to select where users want to input texts with the magnify glass. That's the cursor. The iPhone only invokes the cursor, sort to speak, when it needs it.
Comments
Some of the things you said in your earlier post are irrelevant to the enterprise market. For example, the fact that the phone has a physical keyboard or not is irrelevant to the enterprise. Tons of the business people that I know of are happy with the virtual keyboard on the iPhone. I actually type much faster on my iPhone than on my Treo 650. I've never had a Blackberry so I can't comment much on that, but I don't think it will make me type much faster than on my old Treo.
Second, doing decent quality video is even more irrelevant to the enterprise market. To me, you're just justifying your complaints on your second posts after you made the complaints.
Finally, locking the device is pain in the ass, but this has been the situation for years in the States and the majority of smartphones are locked. Don't get me wrong, I think that the US carrier's habit of locking phones are horrible and I agree with you on this. However, you somewhat over magnified the fact that iPhone is locked on to AT&T while not mentioning the fact that most smartphones out there are locked as well. In fact, most IT guys in big companies are not that concern about the locking issues, which to me is a bad thing.
I've worked in IT for years. One company I worked for, large, had cell BlackBerry's/SmartPhones for all the carriers to support where users lived, and to ensure good reception. T-Mo BB's didn't work on AT&T, and vice-versa. This is not just Apple/iPhone, its all of them as you mentioned. I guess I don't understand why some folks get upset that the iPhone only works on AT&T. Last I checked the BB Storm doesn't work on AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mo; guess RIM are a bunch of SOB's? lol
My HTC Touch Pro (sprint) has background app capability
I wonder how many have sold.
it can do decent quality video
You have to have pretty low standards to call video quality from a mobile phone decent. Some mobile phone video may be better than others, at best I would call them all different shades of crap.
It only requires the expansion of the gesture set with the addition of appropriate buttons to the UI to enable, at the very minimum, global text select, copy and paste
And that gesture set should not be expanded willy-nilly without user testing. Other than the security sandboxing issue, I don't think anyone is saying C&P is a technical implementation issue for the iPhone, it's primarily a UI design issue.
Either the iPhone was launched prematurely, before the OS contained the features that would make the iPhone more than a cute and expensive gadget, or the iPhone is underpowered. At this point, I am inclined to believe that both are true, i.e. the iPhone is underpowered and it's software is immature.
That the iPhone is underpowered should come as no surprise as it reflects the sorry state of Mac desktops (which carry older, slower, mobile, dual core Core 2 Duo CPUs instead of the newer desktop or mobile quad cores such as Core 2 Quads and Core i7).
To guarantee its 50% profit margins on iPhones, Apple is using older, cheaper, slower components which go against its new found description of the iPhone as a "gaming platform".
I've worked in IT for years. One company I worked for, large, had cell BlackBerry's/SmartPhones for all the carriers to support where users lived, and to ensure good reception. T-Mo BB's didn't work on AT&T, and vice-versa. This is not just Apple/iPhone, its all of them as you mentioned. I guess I don't understand why some folks get upset that the iPhone only works on AT&T. Last I checked the BB Storm doesn't work on AT&T, Sprint, or T-Mo; guess RIM are a bunch of SOB's? lol
I think the real issue with crying foul on the US Phone's carrier lock-in is not that other phones don't have it, but that the exclusive deal with the iPhone is unprecedented in duration. The US is very familiar with vendor/carrier exclusivity rights, but lasting 2 years was unheard of.
To break free from the profit sharing deal it is rumoured that Apple had to agree to another 2 years. If true, I don't think this bothers Apple as they don't seem to want to support different models to support CDMA or the T-Mobile radio frequencies doesn't seem to fit them. Sure, they could add both CDMA and GSM, as well the radios for T-Mobile 3G, but that is extra cost and more bulk to the HW for a gain that only really benefits the US at this time. Though China does has a large CDMA user-base, which I think is the only way that a CDMA iPhone will ever get considered for the US.
On top of that, I think the iPhone is the only cell phone that AT&T will not unlock after your contract is completed. Luckily Pwnage team are very dedicated to SW cracking the iPhone and go out of there way to not charge a dime for the service.
And that gesture set should not be expanded willy-nilly without user testing. Other than the security sandboxing issue, I don't think anyone is saying C&P is a technical implementation issue for the iPhone, it's primarily a UI design issue.
Not to sound pedantic (which means I'm about to
I'm pretty sure, I may be wrong. But I'm pretty sure Apple's business decisions don't revolve around your personal requirements for approval.
My point is that when Apple gets rid of these limitations than I would consider an iPhone.
iPhones are decent for consumer use, but they have a long way to go before the enterprise can truly embrace them like they embraced the Blackberry.
No, no it's not. Read the posts about us that stating it's an major hurdle. We have explained the pitfalls of trying to implement a desktop OS method on a finger gestured touchscreen.
Regarding you suggestion of using the trackpad to tap here is an example. You are currently in a web browser, if you want to copy a word I have to click two to get the word to highlight. But on the iPhone that would zoom the page. You can triple click to copy the whole line but you can't copy a part of word or certain words with that method. For that you'll need the accuracy of the mouse pointer and the holding of the mouse/trackpad button. As if that wasn't enough, you then have to be able to copy the text and then be able to paste it somewhere.
A more direct example... Try to copy only a few letters from the word below withOUT using the keyboard or pressing the physical mouse/button.
First of all, do you know how to select a chunk of texts (not just one word) using the touchpad with just one finger and without the need of additional physical or virtual buttons? If not, then ask before making any definite statement or else it will make you look ignorant. From the post you made, you obviously don't know how.
I have to make myself clear here. I've only said that the SELECTING texts issues is solved already with the current touchpad technology, not the copy-and-paste feature, which still requires addtional buttons on laptops. I've been only talking about SELECTING texts using the touchpad with one finger and without the need of any additional physical or virtual button. Somehow Solipsism challenged me to do copy which I've never claimed I can without the assistance of additional button. I do hope Solipsism can read someone's post more carefully before replying something irrelevant to what I've been saying earlier.
Selecting a chunk of text using the touchpad with one finger is more than just double tapping. You people are so stuck with the fact that double tapping would zoom in, but overlooking the fact that iPhone will not invoke zoom in when your finger does not leave the screen immediately on the second tap. When you finger tap the touchpad for the second time without leaving it, this will invoke the selecting function. When you finish selecting, just tap the touchpad again and the texts are selected. This method has been on the laptop for years and this does not conflict with any gestures on the iPhone.
Some of you might argue that the screen will scroll which conflict with the action of selecting. No, it's not. Once you tap the screen the second time without leaving the screen, this will invoke a cursor to selecting text mode and stop the scrolling mode, like the magnifying glass on the iPhone to select where you want to input text. Once you finished selecting text and tap the screen one more time, this will turn the phone back to scrolling mode.
He also hints that many of the software efforts in the year since iPhone 2.0 will bring the device up to the level of the Palm Pre, which while unreleased has a number of software advantages over Apple's platform.
Pre-speculation of features/products, and when not all of them appear, AAPL tanks, and shorters clean up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXS3SQauwPE
Their dev environment is little more than "Mobile HyperCard"
And their great new Palm-supplied features are nothing that iPhone can't put in easily, and will probably (apparently) have in 3.0.
Pre will be leapfrogged before it even comes out.
When you finger tap the touchpad for the second time without leaving it, this will invoke the selecting function.
Just like I stated in post #31 of this thread and linked to a video detailing the difficulties and a possible how to in post #33. But in post #65 you state that this problem is solved, without the need for a keyboard or complicated input, implying that it's simple. Now you are changing your story stating that you'll have to do something different, like holding on the second tap. Of course, this on't select text but now allow you an interface to highlight text to copy. Do you see that it's not the same software to make this happen from the PC to a touchscreen using fingers as input? Watch the video, it's worth it.
I came to similar conclusion. Here goes my guess.
The selection gesture will be tap-and-hold. There will be clearer distinction between selection and possible dialog call (note, picture is indeed selected now first, when copied from the web, then the dialog appears). Copy-paste operations will be triggered either by dialog buttons, or by swipe gestures.
And the number of hold downs will determine what is selected: section-sentence-word-some characters under lens...
why not do it the way the newton did? tap/hold to start the selection, drag to select, tap and drag the selection to the edge of the screen to put it in the clipboard?
[...] I think the iPhone is the only cell phone that AT&T will not unlock after your contract is completed. Luckily Pwnage team are very dedicated to SW cracking the iPhone and go out of there way to not charge a dime for the service.
I never had any interest in jailbreaking my original iPhone but after June and presumably when I get a new iPhone, I may jailbreak my old one or maybe just sell it on Craigslist/eBay.
Laptops have mouse pointers to allow selection of any types of blocks, iPhone does not. Laptops do not employ tapping event to zoom, iPhone does.
That's not an issue at all. Just look how iPhone is able to select where users want to input texts with the magnify glass. That's the cursor. The iPhone only invokes the cursor, sort to speak, when it needs it.
Holding on the second tap may theoretically be used for the selection. But I doubt it will.
- Way too tiny distinction between selection and zoom gestures. Human users will oftenly misbehave.
- Way too complex procedure requiring way too long series of gestures...
Yet it isn't completely impossible. Will displease me.The BlackBerry Storm has touch screen copy and paste, every review has said its terrible.
That's not an issue at all. Just look how iPhone is able to select where users want to input texts with the magnify glass. That's the cursor. The iPhone only invokes the cursor, sort to speak, when it needs it.