App Store experts discuss the future of iPhone gaming
In a panel discussion at the iGames Summit Thursday titled "Where Do We Go From Here?" Rebecca Lynn of Morgenthaler Ventures moderated a discussion about the future of iPhone gaming, involving Brett Seyler of Garage Games, Michael Chang of Greystripe, David Helgason of Unity Technologies, and Greg Yardley of Pinch Media.
Lynn noted that the iPhone 3.0 announcement had great timing, and added that hardware support for gaming peripherals and in-game micro-transactions were all exciting developments. She then asked the panel what they thought were the most exciting iPhone 3.0 announcements.
Chang, who works for a mobile display advertising network that serves full scree interstitial ads for Burger King and Axe body spray, said the new 3.0 features were "publisher focused," citing support for micro-transactions and the ability to show in-app Google maps, allowing advertising to show potential buyers how to drive to retail outlet, for example.
Seyler also talked about in-app purchases and said the new ability "really opens up a lot of opportunities." Yardley, who represents mobile analytics firm Pinch Media, also cited in-app purchases as an important new feature that is company would definitely be "tracking, optimizing and advising" his clients with in to make the most from in their apps.
Asked what missing features they had wished for in iPhone 3.0, the panel appeared stumped. "The 3.0 release is more than I expected to be honest," Seyler answered. "I was really really impressed with this." He recommended that Apple keep working on its hardware to keep it competitive.
Asked how gameplay changes with the new 3.0 platform features, Seyler said that with 3.0's iTunes library access to developers there will be "a lot more of users' own multimedia in in-game mashups."
Yardley noted that only a small number of applications get repeat usage. New push notifications will, and Facebook and other social interaction already does, result in radically different user interaction, Yardley said. His company's analytics show that "some people buy things like crazy," Yardley said, while "other people never pay for anything." Using new monetization models that support both direct payments and ad supported play will be important to reach the widest audience.
With 27,000 apps in the app store, Lynn asked next, what untapped opportunity is there? Yardley said that if your app isn't featured, you're not getting nearly the downloads. One feature he'd like to see in 3.0 is the ability to track conversions through iTunes and options for developers to better promote their own apps.
Asked if the iPhone will ever be a threat to console and PC games, Seyler answered that it already is. He noted that his company supports development on every gaming platform, and that he personally has a Nintendo DS and Sony PSP, but that he only regularly carries his iPhone.
Asked what competitors might challenge the iPhone, the panel agreed with Helgason's comment that it "remains to be seen." Other rival platforms need to unify their offerings he said. Chang added Apple had done a great job of building an ecosystem around the iPhone rather than just advertising it.
Responding to a question about how the developer mix of the App Store is likely to change, Yardley said a lot of early successes came from nimble small developers, while big developers with familiar "existing IP" are now gaining in impact, starting with titles such as Sega's Super Monkey Ball.
In terms of marketing big games and setting them apart from the piles of cheaper, simpler titles, the panel discussed how Steam creates per-publisher stores to leverage brand loyalty and promote games to users. However, in addressing the rumors of a "premium app store," where big developers could charge more for their games without the distraction of smaller developer's offerings, Yardley said that iTunes' level playing field was a core strength.
Yardley noted that while the App Store is tilted toward $1 games, there are still lots of opportunities for more expensive, sophisticated games to reach the top ten list. He recommending that developers "do not shoot yourself in the foot by going too low too fast," and to instead price their apps as high as they think they can and then offer a discount afterward it if isn't selling.
A game developer in the audience recommended that Apple add the capacity for developers to add video demos for games listed in the Apps Store, and asked about the potential for adding "real, good quality video in games." Currently, games are limited to playing full screen video through the built in QuickTime Player. The panel noted that 3.0 opens up both streaming and access to the user's iPod library, but that the details of the 3.0 SDK are still begin reviewed by developers.
Lynn noted that the iPhone 3.0 announcement had great timing, and added that hardware support for gaming peripherals and in-game micro-transactions were all exciting developments. She then asked the panel what they thought were the most exciting iPhone 3.0 announcements.
Chang, who works for a mobile display advertising network that serves full scree interstitial ads for Burger King and Axe body spray, said the new 3.0 features were "publisher focused," citing support for micro-transactions and the ability to show in-app Google maps, allowing advertising to show potential buyers how to drive to retail outlet, for example.
Seyler also talked about in-app purchases and said the new ability "really opens up a lot of opportunities." Yardley, who represents mobile analytics firm Pinch Media, also cited in-app purchases as an important new feature that is company would definitely be "tracking, optimizing and advising" his clients with in to make the most from in their apps.
Asked what missing features they had wished for in iPhone 3.0, the panel appeared stumped. "The 3.0 release is more than I expected to be honest," Seyler answered. "I was really really impressed with this." He recommended that Apple keep working on its hardware to keep it competitive.
Asked how gameplay changes with the new 3.0 platform features, Seyler said that with 3.0's iTunes library access to developers there will be "a lot more of users' own multimedia in in-game mashups."
Yardley noted that only a small number of applications get repeat usage. New push notifications will, and Facebook and other social interaction already does, result in radically different user interaction, Yardley said. His company's analytics show that "some people buy things like crazy," Yardley said, while "other people never pay for anything." Using new monetization models that support both direct payments and ad supported play will be important to reach the widest audience.
With 27,000 apps in the app store, Lynn asked next, what untapped opportunity is there? Yardley said that if your app isn't featured, you're not getting nearly the downloads. One feature he'd like to see in 3.0 is the ability to track conversions through iTunes and options for developers to better promote their own apps.
Asked if the iPhone will ever be a threat to console and PC games, Seyler answered that it already is. He noted that his company supports development on every gaming platform, and that he personally has a Nintendo DS and Sony PSP, but that he only regularly carries his iPhone.
Asked what competitors might challenge the iPhone, the panel agreed with Helgason's comment that it "remains to be seen." Other rival platforms need to unify their offerings he said. Chang added Apple had done a great job of building an ecosystem around the iPhone rather than just advertising it.
Responding to a question about how the developer mix of the App Store is likely to change, Yardley said a lot of early successes came from nimble small developers, while big developers with familiar "existing IP" are now gaining in impact, starting with titles such as Sega's Super Monkey Ball.
In terms of marketing big games and setting them apart from the piles of cheaper, simpler titles, the panel discussed how Steam creates per-publisher stores to leverage brand loyalty and promote games to users. However, in addressing the rumors of a "premium app store," where big developers could charge more for their games without the distraction of smaller developer's offerings, Yardley said that iTunes' level playing field was a core strength.
Yardley noted that while the App Store is tilted toward $1 games, there are still lots of opportunities for more expensive, sophisticated games to reach the top ten list. He recommending that developers "do not shoot yourself in the foot by going too low too fast," and to instead price their apps as high as they think they can and then offer a discount afterward it if isn't selling.
A game developer in the audience recommended that Apple add the capacity for developers to add video demos for games listed in the Apps Store, and asked about the potential for adding "real, good quality video in games." Currently, games are limited to playing full screen video through the built in QuickTime Player. The panel noted that 3.0 opens up both streaming and access to the user's iPod library, but that the details of the 3.0 SDK are still begin reviewed by developers.
Comments
I think Sony and Nintendo are going to have to work hard to compete.
PS: The new "in app" purchases could be great for companies, like Atari, who have loads of classic games. They can make a single, official emulator and then sell their entire library through that emulator.
A game developer in the audience recommended that Apple add the capacity for developers to add video demos for games listed in the Apps Store, and asked about the potential for adding "real, good quality video in games." Currently, games are limited to playing full screen video through the built in QuickTime Player. The panel noted that 3.0 opens up both streaming and access to the user's iPod library, but that the details of the 3.0 SDK are still begin reviewed by developers.
The "market" has already answered this. Every app in the top 50 has a YouTube video, and any app worth it's salt also has a video.
The additions to the iPhone OS, the new SDK APIs and the use of the previously unallowed options like BT and the 30-pin connector are going to be massive for the gaming market. When I consider the number of people I know with iPhones/iPods and DS/PSPs the combo could actually save them money overall, since they can buy one device instead of multiple and have it be a more powerful device with more and better HW features and options.
I think Sony and Nintendo are going to have to work hard to compete.
PS: The new "in app" purchases could be great for companies, like Atari, who have loads of classic games. They can make a single, official emulator and then sell their entire library through that emulator.
Many of the classic video games already have "generic" equivalents available on the App Store. The longer companies like Atari and Sega wait, the more time faster smaller devs have to rip them off.
Clearly though that would bring the numbers of apps being sold downwards as Apple could no longer call that two app downloads, when they user is not downloading another app, just improving it. It's all a bit fiddly.
The "market" has already answered this. Every app in the top 50 has a YouTube video, and any app worth it's salt also has a video.
I didn't know this existed. Unless Apple includes an option to try an app this is very coo. They can expire video, but for apps it would have to be more complex than play or not to play.
Many of the classic video games already have "generic" equivalents available on the App Store. The longer companies like Atari and Sega wait, the more time faster smaller devs have to rip them off.
If you mean games that are like classic video games, but not the actual video games, I've seen a few of them. But I want the actual classic game. And I want to enter, for example, just the Atari icon on my Home Screen to see a list of all the games I bought from Atari within the app. (I think I really just a folder/file hierarchy in the iPhone.)
I mean honestly, who wants 20 games on their iPhone/iPod Touch, each one of them asking for just a little bit of extra cash for a few new levels, features, maps, and so on into infinity. Anyone who thinks that developers are not going to abuse this is crazy.
Then there are those who claim that those developers will suffer a backlash from the community if they abuse in app commerce but have not paid attention to the amount of utter garbage people spend $.99 on without complaining. iFart or iThrowUp anyone?
In case I have not been clear, in app commerce is just evil and will quickly get out of control. Greed is just funny that way.
Chockenberry mentioned they still didn't address the most important request developers have: demo apps. Apple said free apps remain free, but if they allowed developers that in-app commerce facility for within free apps that would solve the whole demo app situation. People would get the free version (demo) and be able to upgrade to the full version in app. Demoware!
Clearly though that would bring the numbers of apps being sold downwards as Apple could no longer call that two app downloads, when they user is not downloading another app, just improving it. It's all a bit fiddly.
I think Apple counts every actual app download. At least I wold since it's not automatic requiring actual user interaction to get teh update and it is a whole new download not just a partial.
But I think the reason that Apple is preventing free apps being able to include costly in-app purchases is to help protect the ecosystem. I don't want to get a free app just to find that I can't use all the features or access all the levels advertised without paying more. If they want to have a lite and full version as seperate apps, I'm fine with that, as the free app will still be free and it won't seem like trojan. It's essentially six of one half-dozen of the other (to use the cliché), but the marketing effect to the consumer is very different, IMO.
Why doe it always have to be referred to as "iPhone gaming". The iPod Touch is surpassing the iPhone day by day. As long the iPhone remains locked into AT&T, it stagnates.
Huh? The iPod Touch's only HW benefit over the iPhone is the slightly higher-clocked CPU. Every other SW or HW category they are equal or it loses to the iPhone in terms of capability.
The iPod Touch is certainly popular and has a great deal of potential, but with so many people wanting cell phones the number of current iPhone users is greater than the iPod Touch, despite the contractual obligations and high monthly fees. Perhaps that will change in the future, but for right now the iPhone reigns between the two.
Huh? The iPod Touch's only HW benefit over the iPhone is the slightly higher-clocked CPU. Every other SW or HW category they are equal or it loses to the iPhone in terms of capability.
The iPod Touch is certainly popular and has a great deal of potential, but with so many people wanting cell phones the number of current iPhone users is greater than the iPod Touch, despite the contractual obligations and high monthly fees. Perhaps that will change in the future, but for right now the iPhone reigns between the two.
I think he meant sales of the iPod touch are surpassing the iPhone, which is true, but I agree with you, the iPhone is more attractive. People with an iPhone have it on them all the time, whereas people with an iPod Touch don't have it on them nearly as much. Also, it is called iPhone gaming because this allows Apple to keep this category seperate in the consumers' mind instead of calling it iPod Touch gaming and getting it mashed in with iPod classic/nano gaming.
Huh? The iPod Touch's only HW benefit over the iPhone is the slightly higher-clocked CPU. Every other SW or HW category they are equal or it loses to the iPhone in terms of capability.
The iPod Touch is certainly popular and has a great deal of potential, but with so many people wanting cell phones the number of current iPhone users is greater than the iPod Touch, despite the contractual obligations and high monthly fees. Perhaps that will change in the future, but for right now the iPhone reigns between the two.
iPhone sold 17mil - iPod Touch sold 13mil . Who has the bigger growth- I ask you. Wait til next year. AT&T is hindering the iPhone. Watch.
AT&T is at the bottom or next to bottom in 3 out of 4 regions. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/14/te...y/14phone.html
I think he meant sales of the iPod touch are surpassing the iPhone, which is true, but I agree with you, the iPhone is more attractive. People with an iPhone have it on them all the time, whereas people with an iPod Touch don't have it on them nearly as much. Also, it is called iPhone gaming because this allows Apple to keep this category seperate in the consumers' mind instead of calling it iPod Touch gaming and getting it mashed in with iPod classic/nano gaming.
I think he meant sales of the iPod touch are surpassing the iPhone, which is true, but I agree with you, the iPhone is more attractive. People with an iPhone have it on them all the time, whereas people with an iPod Touch don't have it on them nearly as much. Also, it is called iPhone gaming because this allows Apple to keep this category seperate in the consumers' mind instead of calling it iPod Touch gaming and getting it mashed in with iPod classic/nano gaming.
Surpass means to exceed, even if we account for the 9 week jump the iPhone had over the iPod Touch by removing all the original iPhone sales up to that point the iPhone still has sold more units than the iPod Touch. This isn't even taking into account the fact the Touch was sold in pretty much every market that the iPod is sold, while the iPhone had to wait a half year for a handle of countries to be added and a year or more for the current 80 to be added.
The Pod Touch is a great device, but surprisingly the iPhone is beating it. I presume that the value added of combining your phone with your iPod and having internet everywhere (and maybe a camera) helps push people to that device.
The iPod Touch is surpassing the iPhone day by day.
iPhone sold 17mil - iPod Touch sold 13mil.
That is the point I made. The iPhone is in the lead, it is not surpassed by the Touch.
Surpass means to exceed, even if we account for the 9 week jump the iPhone had over the iPod Touch by removing all the original iPhone sales up to that point the iPhone still has sold more units than the iPod Touch. This isn't even taking into account the fact the Touch was sold in pretty much every market that the iPod is sold, while the iPhone had to wait a half year for a handle of countries to be added and a year or more for the current 80 to be added.
The Pod Touch is a great device, but surprisingly the iPhone is beating it. I presume that the value added of combining your phone with your iPod and having internet everywhere (and maybe a camera) helps push people to that device.
That is the point I made. The iPhone is in the lead, it is not surpassed by the Touch.
Now I know you are way better than that. Did I state that is has surpassed the iPhone- NOoo.
I said it is surpassing as we speak. How can you deny that it is not growing at a faster rate than the iPhone now. Look at the numbers sold last year compared to this year. Now who is growing faster. Who would have predicted 13 million for the Touch?? Last year was nowhere near that amount.
I think Apple counts every actual app download. At least I wold since it's not automatic requiring actual user interaction to get teh update and it is a whole new download not just a partial.
Apple does, but it's not correct in my view. Getting a new version of Tweetie isn't buying 2 apps, though Apple does misrepresent the numbers in this way.
Now I know you are way better than that. Did I state that is has surpassed the iPhone- NOoo.
I said it is surpassing as we speak. How can you deny that it is not growing at a faster rate than the iPhone now. Look at the numbers sold last year compared to this year. Now who is growing faster.
I would not use the word surpassing like that unless you directly state that it's surpassing in growth. They are very different things.
Who would have predicted 13 million for the Touch?? Last year was nowhere near that amount.
I would have thought the Touch had at least twice the number of iPhone unit sales at this point. They were in a lot more markets and have less restrictions and TCO.
I would not use the word surpassing like that unless you directly state that it's surpassing in growth. They are very different things.
Surpassing mean exceeding where I come from.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/surpassing
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/surpassing
It doesn't mean that it's gone past it.
Now I sound like that which I loathe.
I would have thought the Touch had at least twice the number of iPhone unit sales at this point. They were in a lot more markets and have less restrictions and TCO.
Percentage wise to last year - Touch beats the iPhone.
Why doe it always have to be referred to as "iPhone gaming"- AI? The iPod Touch is surpassing the iPhone day by day. As long the iPhone remains locked into AT&T, it stagnates.
Maybe it's because it's iPhone OS 3.0 not iPod Touch OS 3.0.
They don't call PC games Dell games, HP games etc, they call them Windows or PC games.
The additions to the iPhone OS, the new SDK APIs and the use of the previously unallowed options like BT and the 30-pin connector are going to be massive for the gaming market. When I consider the number of people I know with iPhones/iPods and DS/PSPs the combo could actually save them money overall, since they can buy one device instead of multiple and have it be a more powerful device with more and better HW features and options.
I think Sony and Nintendo are going to have to work hard to compete.
PS: The new "in app" purchases could be great for companies, like Atari, who have loads of classic games. They can make a single, official emulator and then sell their entire library through that emulator.
In terms of building an online store presence, perhaps, although Sony already has the Playstation Network.
But as far as the actual games, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, some of Sony's original titles like GoW, GT, Wipeout, Rachet and Clank, etc, will out sell the derivate games and ripoffs current available in the app store.
Underestimating established game franchises just displays complete misunderstanding of the gaming market, but then again, Apple always has. I think that the Touch/iPhone could do well, but to say that Sony and of all companies, Nintendo has to compete, is laughable.
Nintendo knows gaming better than anyone, and I haven't owned a Nintendo since I was a kid, but they've been printing money with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.