We all know that the X86 platform is a fast and powerfull system that has become mainstream equipment for alot of people. Microsoft has raped this platform and slapped a made for windows xp sticker on it.
How many exploits, viri, worms and trojans have been
writen for windows xp alone? Everyday i see another vulnerbility for Xp I laugh. I remember just a week ago hearing that over 60 pacthes have been released for windows xp since its debue. How many have been released for OSX?
I have a theory that there will always be problems with Mircrosofts OS's, why because theve created an indutustry out of the volume of problem with there OS.
I emplore everyone to do a survey of how many mac tech jobs ther are in your city compared to windows tech support. Probly not to many. I know your saying ya because a small percentage of people use mac's. But even if Apple had a larger market share things would be the same.
If somebody has a problem with there Mac they take it an apple store, compusa. If they have a OS issue which is very slim they call apple, an apple store, or go to the web site. Apple holds the cards. They do this for a reason.
Then you take the PC market, very expansive if you look at it as a whole. Not to mention the OEM paradox. If a PC user has a problem there might be 50 different reasons for the issue. Or not.
One other side note, there is no way to directly compare
X86 processers and PPC processers. Once a benchmarking program that is balanced, neutral and mutliplatform comes out then we can compare size and speed.
To just add a little tidbit, i have an 600mhz ibook with 384mgs of ram and a 8mg video card. I run quake3 at 80% performance. Now show me a 600mhz PC with 384mg of ram and a 8mg video card that can run quake3. Not to mention other things like render a Bryce5 picture while decoding a DVD and browsing the internet with no lag at all.
So please have hard facts when we start comparing apple's to oranges!
Nothing like watching the spinning wheel every time you go to do anything. While on the PC things pop up instant.
Another bad thing with any browser on OSX is the slow speed. I have all the browsers including chimera with the speed pipeline enhancement.
As I am using it right now to type I can see the letters appear on the screen slowly after I type them. Delay reaction is mac all the way.
What else sucks about mac osx is scrolling on a page. The PC has much better feel of scroll on a webpage.
It is not slow and there is no lag. The feel is just right. There is no good way to configure the scroll no matter how you configure it on OSX.
My OSX crashes if I have it networked to my XP PC and I turn off my PC before turning off my mac. force quit never solves the crash. I have to Hard Power Off if this happens. I forget time to time and this really is a big bug on the part of OSX.
Also OSX has bugs in the sleep function. Power management has bugs. Does not work correctly. Has a mind of it's own when you want to wake up your machine but it has a ghost playing games.
OSX is nice to look at but it does not run very well.
Frankly, a great many of people's assessments of these operating systems is based solely on speed. I'm making this conclusion based on all the threads we've had here, at other fora and by discussions I've had with other people. It seems that the user experience is not a factor in computing for many people, if not most of them. If so, then Apple really is "doomed." That's always been the reason why I use a Mac, but I seem to be in the minority, even among Mac owners.
I haven't seen the type of lags or delay a lot of what you guys are talking about since 10.0, maybe 10.1 in some cases. The closest thing I have to these problems is resizing windows in some apps. It seems to be on a per-app basis -- iCal is slow, and some of the few crappy Carbon ports I've bothered to keep are too. But my experience seems to be the exception. I haven't had a kernel panic or system freeze since the public beta, though I've managed to crash some apps under heavy duress. I'm using an LCD iMac 700 MHz and 512 MB RAM.
<strong>\\That's always been the reason why I use a Mac, but I seem to be in the minority, even among Mac owners.
I haven't seen the type of lags or delay a lot of what you guys are talking about since 10.0, maybe 10.1 in some cases. The closest thing I have to these problems is resizing windows in some apps. It seems to be on a per-app basis -- iCal is slow, and some of the few crappy Carbon ports I've bothered to keep are too. But my experience seems to be the exception.
I guess I'm one of the exceptions as well, because I haven't had the problems that others apparently have.
And as for your point about the user experience, I'm there with you brother.
I know my Mac isn't as fast as someone 2ghz Pentium machine, but there are other reasons for me to use a Mac other than speed.
As an example, a friend of mine has a PC with dual Athlon 1.8 Ghz processors and 2 gigs of ram. He was trying to render a scene in Maya and it would crap out before finishing the render. He then tried the same file on his G4, dual 1 ghz Quicksilver with 512 mb of ram and it completed the render. Not as quickly as it would have on the PC, but it did finish. The reason? Memory management under a Unix operating system is way better than on any version of a Windows operating system.
Fast isn't everything. Of course, as with most things, a user experience is also subjective, so there will always be those who don't like the look and feel of any operating system.
About the web browsing speed, IE 5.1 MacOS 9 runs at the same speed as IE 3.0 Win95 on VPC 3 running on the same computer. Pages usually load at the same speed, although sometimes the native IE comes out ahead. That just shows that IE is written with half-assed care for the Mac. Considering the slow-down from emulation, browsing should be 6-7 times slower in VPC, but isn't. So the reason Mac browsing is slow is just that Windows IE just has a faster parsing algorithm. It displays the first page so that you can read it while the rest of the web page is parsed, instead of the Mac IE way of parsing the whole thing while you see white, and displaying hte page only once the whole thing is parsed. Someone just needs to write a better algorithm.
My OSX crashes if I have it networked to my XP PC and I turn off my PC before turning off my mac. force quit never solves the crash. I have to Hard Power Off if this happens. I forget time to time and this really is a big bug on the part of OSX
Yeah, I forgot to unmount my XP drive from home I had mounted on my ibook the other night and when I brought it to work the next day to connect to the domain my ibook kept trying to connect to the mounted drive. The beach ball kept spinning and spinning and the force quit would not work. Finallly I managed to open the terminal and kill it there, but way too much work. Only took about 30 minutes. Not cool. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Mac OS X is a new OS that has room to evolve and last 15 years. Mac OS X is rather slow, because it's a power eater, especially the Quartz environnement, but it will become faster on new machines. In one or two years, the hardware will improve dramatically with the new IBM chips, transforming the speed of Mac OS X. Add some improvements of the OS , and you will have the winner for the next years.
Windows XP has one saving grace, it's called System Restore and it's saved my system at least 3 times. It restores your system to the last time it was stable.
The thing is, I've never had a need for a System Restore feature in OS X.
Also, after using XP Pro at work for the past two weeks, it seems even more antiquated compared to OS X.
OS X is like a beautiful swan (or Jaguar!) and XP is like a frog.
I have to say, I don't see these speed issues others are describing. I use a Pismo G3/400 384MB RAM, and OS X 10.1 was fine for day-to-day use. 10.2 is downright "zippy" -- though I do notice a speedup in windowing when I use my friend's eMac 700.
I just don't ever find that the interface gets in my way when I'm doing work. I use Photoshop, InDesign, Chimera, Mail, BBEdit, and iChat with no difficulties. I play MP3s in the background shared over a wireless network without a noticeable slowdown. And I didn't even do an "archive and install" when I upgraded to Jag.
I've been using Macs since System 6.0.3 on a Plus with 1MB Ram and 2 800K floppy drives, I once had the fastest Mac on the market (PowerCenterPro 210 with an amazing 60MHz bus), and I regularly fix WinXP for my parents. XP is a dog on their system, which is a P4 1.8GHz with 512MB of ram, except for browsing with IE.
The one thing I dob't like about OS X is sometimes when I'm in the middle of doing something the screen freezes for a second and then goes to the blue screen and after a couple of seconds everything comes back like after you login. I never experienced this before Jaguar.
Sounds like the windows server is crashing. Perhaps a little sudo deletion of its prefs would do the trick? I once force quit the window server just to see what that would do from the Process Viewer and that's basically what happened.
<strong>The one thing I dob't like about OS X is sometimes when I'm in the middle of doing something the screen freezes for a second and then goes to the blue screen and after a couple of seconds everything comes back like after you login. I never experienced this before Jaguar.
G4Dude, is this what you're talking about?
[ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I mean at least twice a day my computer logs me out and I have to log back in. Also, when I hit Apple-Option-Esc. it logs me out.
I've had problems with Jaguar 'logging out' on me too. It really sucks and is frequent enough that it's annoying. But as for speed, window resizing is slow, and column views (in the finder and save dialogue boxes) can certainly be slow. Also, menus take a fraction of a second longer than they should but on a G4 400, 1 GB, I think it's great. I won't need to replace this system for a long while yet.
I found a long time ago, that in X, I need over 512 MB to make it fast. For example, right now I have 726 MB of RAM used (no clue where though). So on a system with less than 1 GB of RAM, you'll always be paging out to the HD and back, which is obviously slow and will cause beachballs.
<strong>The only time I've had a random logout was when unplugging an iParrot headset from the USB port. Otherwise, it's never done that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whenever I open iCal it logs out too. My computer sucks
Comments
1) Window resizing is like watching paint dry.
2) The stupid spinning wheel that randomly pops up and makes you wait for minutes at a time.
3) The random logouts
4) iChat sucks.
How many exploits, viri, worms and trojans have been
writen for windows xp alone? Everyday i see another vulnerbility for Xp I laugh. I remember just a week ago hearing that over 60 pacthes have been released for windows xp since its debue. How many have been released for OSX?
I have a theory that there will always be problems with Mircrosofts OS's, why because theve created an indutustry out of the volume of problem with there OS.
I emplore everyone to do a survey of how many mac tech jobs ther are in your city compared to windows tech support. Probly not to many. I know your saying ya because a small percentage of people use mac's. But even if Apple had a larger market share things would be the same.
If somebody has a problem with there Mac they take it an apple store, compusa. If they have a OS issue which is very slim they call apple, an apple store, or go to the web site. Apple holds the cards. They do this for a reason.
Then you take the PC market, very expansive if you look at it as a whole. Not to mention the OEM paradox. If a PC user has a problem there might be 50 different reasons for the issue. Or not.
One other side note, there is no way to directly compare
X86 processers and PPC processers. Once a benchmarking program that is balanced, neutral and mutliplatform comes out then we can compare size and speed.
To just add a little tidbit, i have an 600mhz ibook with 384mgs of ram and a 8mg video card. I run quake3 at 80% performance. Now show me a 600mhz PC with 384mg of ram and a 8mg video card that can run quake3. Not to mention other things like render a Bryce5 picture while decoding a DVD and browsing the internet with no lag at all.
So please have hard facts when we start comparing apple's to oranges!
<strong>There are 4 things that I hate about OS X 10.2 on my iMac 800.
3) The random logouts
</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
XP is Blazing FAST.
OSX has the nice spinning wheel....
Nothing like watching the spinning wheel every time you go to do anything. While on the PC things pop up instant.
Another bad thing with any browser on OSX is the slow speed. I have all the browsers including chimera with the speed pipeline enhancement.
As I am using it right now to type I can see the letters appear on the screen slowly after I type them. Delay reaction is mac all the way.
What else sucks about mac osx is scrolling on a page. The PC has much better feel of scroll on a webpage.
It is not slow and there is no lag. The feel is just right. There is no good way to configure the scroll no matter how you configure it on OSX.
My OSX crashes if I have it networked to my XP PC and I turn off my PC before turning off my mac. force quit never solves the crash. I have to Hard Power Off if this happens. I forget time to time and this really is a big bug on the part of OSX.
Also OSX has bugs in the sleep function. Power management has bugs. Does not work correctly. Has a mind of it's own when you want to wake up your machine but it has a ghost playing games.
OSX is nice to look at but it does not run very well.
Fellowship
[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
I currently use 10.2.2, which took all of 3 minutes to install.
Window resizing/zooming is fast.
All apps appear within a few bounces.
Although I don't have large apps such as PhotoShop.
I use a modem, so web browsing is slow, but acceptable.
Scrolling is fast.
I only see the spinning beachball when I (stupidly) use netscape 7.
OS X is a joy to use. The only speed issue I had was with iDisk. That problem has gone away - I don't have a .mac account.
I haven't seen the type of lags or delay a lot of what you guys are talking about since 10.0, maybe 10.1 in some cases. The closest thing I have to these problems is resizing windows in some apps. It seems to be on a per-app basis -- iCal is slow, and some of the few crappy Carbon ports I've bothered to keep are too. But my experience seems to be the exception. I haven't had a kernel panic or system freeze since the public beta, though I've managed to crash some apps under heavy duress. I'm using an LCD iMac 700 MHz and 512 MB RAM.
[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
<strong>\\That's always been the reason why I use a Mac, but I seem to be in the minority, even among Mac owners.
I haven't seen the type of lags or delay a lot of what you guys are talking about since 10.0, maybe 10.1 in some cases. The closest thing I have to these problems is resizing windows in some apps. It seems to be on a per-app basis -- iCal is slow, and some of the few crappy Carbon ports I've bothered to keep are too. But my experience seems to be the exception.
[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess I'm one of the exceptions as well, because I haven't had the problems that others apparently have.
And as for your point about the user experience, I'm there with you brother.
I know my Mac isn't as fast as someone 2ghz Pentium machine, but there are other reasons for me to use a Mac other than speed.
As an example, a friend of mine has a PC with dual Athlon 1.8 Ghz processors and 2 gigs of ram. He was trying to render a scene in Maya and it would crap out before finishing the render. He then tried the same file on his G4, dual 1 ghz Quicksilver with 512 mb of ram and it completed the render. Not as quickly as it would have on the PC, but it did finish. The reason? Memory management under a Unix operating system is way better than on any version of a Windows operating system.
Fast isn't everything. Of course, as with most things, a user experience is also subjective, so there will always be those who don't like the look and feel of any operating system.
Use what you like. Life is too short.
My OSX crashes if I have it networked to my XP PC and I turn off my PC before turning off my mac. force quit never solves the crash. I have to Hard Power Off if this happens. I forget time to time and this really is a big bug on the part of OSX
[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ][/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I forgot to unmount my XP drive from home I had mounted on my ibook the other night and when I brought it to work the next day to connect to the domain my ibook kept trying to connect to the mounted drive. The beach ball kept spinning and spinning and the force quit would not work. Finallly I managed to open the terminal and kill it there, but way too much work. Only took about 30 minutes. Not cool. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>There are 4 things that I hate about OS X 10.2 on my iMac 800.
1) Window resizing is like watching paint dry.
</strong><hr></blockquote> Somehow my experience is different. It's not fast but certainly not that slow either
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>
3) The random logouts
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Never experienced that
Mac OS X is a new OS that has room to evolve and last 15 years. Mac OS X is rather slow, because it's a power eater, especially the Quartz environnement, but it will become faster on new machines. In one or two years, the hardware will improve dramatically with the new IBM chips, transforming the speed of Mac OS X. Add some improvements of the OS , and you will have the winner for the next years.
The thing is, I've never had a need for a System Restore feature in OS X.
Also, after using XP Pro at work for the past two weeks, it seems even more antiquated compared to OS X.
OS X is like a beautiful swan (or Jaguar!) and XP is like a frog.
I just don't ever find that the interface gets in my way when I'm doing work. I use Photoshop, InDesign, Chimera, Mail, BBEdit, and iChat with no difficulties. I play MP3s in the background shared over a wireless network without a noticeable slowdown. And I didn't even do an "archive and install" when I upgraded to Jag.
I've been using Macs since System 6.0.3 on a Plus with 1MB Ram and 2 800K floppy drives, I once had the fastest Mac on the market (PowerCenterPro 210 with an amazing 60MHz bus), and I regularly fix WinXP for my parents. XP is a dog on their system, which is a P4 1.8GHz with 512MB of ram, except for browsing with IE.
G4Dude, is this what you're talking about?
[ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>
<strong>The one thing I dob't like about OS X is sometimes when I'm in the middle of doing something the screen freezes for a second and then goes to the blue screen and after a couple of seconds everything comes back like after you login. I never experienced this before Jaguar.
G4Dude, is this what you're talking about?
[ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: EmAn ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I mean at least twice a day my computer logs me out and I have to log back in. Also, when I hit Apple-Option-Esc. it logs me out.
I found a long time ago, that in X, I need over 512 MB to make it fast. For example, right now I have 726 MB of RAM used (no clue where though). So on a system with less than 1 GB of RAM, you'll always be paging out to the HD and back, which is obviously slow and will cause beachballs.
1) The spyware (included free!)
2) The abundance of virii
3) Security flaws being found more than once a week (64 found this year), thus requiring constant updates via windowsupdate.microsoft.com
I find my single 800mhz quicksilver to be much quicker than my 1.4ghz athlon (work machine) at daily tasks.
<strong>The only time I've had a random logout was when unplugging an iParrot headset from the USB port. Otherwise, it's never done that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whenever I open iCal it logs out too. My computer sucks