Microsoft allows HP to wipe Windows 7 with XP through 2010

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Despite valiant efforts to push its Windows licensees to adopt Vista and the forthcoming Windows 7, Microsoft has one again agreed to extend the option of selling Windows XP for use on new PCs for another year, through April 30, 2010.



The announcement hasn't been made publicly, but AppleInsider can exclusively report that according to a source within Hewlett Packard, Microsoft has granted the PC giant an extension to its existing rights to continue selling the nearly eight year old Windows XP on the company's business desktops, workstations, and notebooks in place of Windows 7 for another year.



Microsoft isn't excited about the XP extension, as the internal communique provided by the source stated, "It?s important to remind customers that Microsoft are still planning to retire XP Pro Mainstream support on April 14th 2009 and will only provide OS security updates beyond that date unless the customer has an Extended Hotfix Support contract. MS Extended Support for XP Pro ends on April 8th 2014."



Out with the new, in with the old



Microsoft only allows Windows XP Pro or Windows XP Tablet to be bundled with new PCs as restore media, which the company refers to as an "XP downgrade." This enables the company to claim having sold a Windows Vista license for all new shipping PCs; it continues to insist that PC makers ship their machines with Vista pre-installed.



However, many PC makers prominently feature the "XP downgrade" as a feature of their new machines, although many will apparently will lose the ability to continue offering an alternative to Vista when their XP downgrade rights expire on July 31, unless they are also able to match the deal HP brokered with Microsoft.



Additionally, corporate PC customers frequently image all the computers they buy with a standardized, site licensed version of Windows customized for their needs. For many companies, this continues to be built upon Windows XP. Microsoft is particularly interested in moving these customers to Vista and its successor, Windows 7, despite their resistance to make the transition.



Windows 7 downgrade to "allow headroom"



Microsoft has billed Windows 7 as a completely new operating system, but company executives also admit publicly that the release is really a relatively minor update to Windows Vista.



"Windows 7," CEO Steve Ballmer stated, "is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance."



That means that many of the reasons customers have for not migrating to Vista will also be reasons for not wanting to shift to Windows 7, making the availability of an "XP downgrade" an important factor to vendors selling Windows PCs.



In mid February, Computerworld cited Michael Silver, an analyst with Gartner, as saying, "Downgrade rights are hugely important for Windows 7. Will Microsoft offer downgrades [from Windows 7] to XP? They've not answered that question yet. But it's really important."



HP's internal communique answers that question in the affirmative, at least for the company's business customers. "Microsoft will allow PC OEMs to structure similar downgrade OS SKUs for Win 7 Professional once available. No formal announcement has been made on the General Availability date for Win 7. However, you can anticipate that business desktops, notebooks and workstations will take advantage of this with the release of Win 7 in the October timeframe to allow our customers maximum headroom as they transition away from XP Pro OS. The Win 7 Professional to XP Pro downgrade OS will also discontinue on April 30th 2010."



XP rights for home users and netbooks still uncertain



Whether Microsoft will allow home users and other licensees apart from HP the right to sell new PCs with the bundled restore media to install a pre-Vista version of Windows still remains to be seen. If Microsoft does not, it may face pressure from PC makers and even push them to begin shipping Ubuntu or their own customized edition of Linux on new PCs, as Acer, Dell, HP, and others have already begun doing in the netbook market.



The inability of Windows Vista to run on netbooks forced Microsoft to offer very low cost licenses for Windows XP to kill off the threat of Linux finding a foothold on low cost hardware. Microsoft has promised that forthcoming versions of Windows 7 would run acceptably on netbooks, but has yet to offer full specifics of how, or how much those netbook licenses would cost.



Ubuntu CEO Mark Shuttleworth welcomed the prospect of a level playing field in the netbook market, stating in an interview that "a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing OEMs to use low-cost copies of Windows XP instead of paying full price for the full version of the official flagship - Windows Vista."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 56
    cu10cu10 Posts: 294member
    Hahah! XP will never die.
  • Reply 2 of 56
    msnlymsnly Posts: 378member
    Windows 7



    Otherwise known as...



    Windows XXPP
  • Reply 3 of 56
    voodooruvoodooru Posts: 70member
    "XP downgrade"



    buy new updated hardware and DOWN grade to an 8 year old OS



    waaaay to go!
  • Reply 4 of 56
    jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    I thought Windows 7 was supposed to be the "OS X killer"....yet it can't even kill Windows XP.
  • Reply 5 of 56
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,571member
    What's the relevance to Apple with this story? I don't understand other than to rile up the "base."



    That being said, this is a stupid move by Microsoft. I could understand with Vista given how much of a bad rep it got (some of it deserved, some of it not). But Windows 7 is so good in my testing (on netbooks and notebooks) that prolonging XP's life just isn't worth it anymore. I mean, sheesh, the OS is 8 years old.
  • Reply 6 of 56
    guinnessguinness Posts: 473member
    I can only see using XP over Win7 for very old SW, otherwise 7 is what Vista should've been, and very near or faster than XP in most cases.



    Other than that, I can't see a single reason for AI to post that, there isn't a single Apple or OSX reference in the entire "article".
  • Reply 7 of 56
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    I can only see using XP over Win7 for very old SW, otherwise 7 is what Vista should've been, and very near or faster than XP in most cases.



    Other than that, I can't see a single reason for AI to post that, there isn't a single Apple or OSX reference in the entire "article".



    Actually it is relevant, it is about the competition and we can discuss just like we discuss those useless ads Microsoft releases.
  • Reply 8 of 56
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    I thought Windows 7 was supposed to be the "OS X killer"....yet it can't even kill Windows XP.



    No way so you mean even Windows 7 which is touted as the saviour of mankind, they will still be offering an 8 year old OS.
  • Reply 9 of 56
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 612member
    Wlll they ever move FreshStart for non-profits from 2000Pro to XP?
  • Reply 10 of 56
    guinnessguinness Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    Actually it is relevant, it is about the competition and we can discuss just like we discuss those useless ads Microsoft releases.



    Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.



    But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.
  • Reply 11 of 56
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    This is so stupid!



    As long as XP continues to thrive malware makers have a sure way to propagate their crud. I work at a company of 30K + employees and got a trojan that destroyed my system a few weeks ago. I called our helpdesk to reimage my laptop as no personal files were kept there. The lead helpdesk tech told me he had the same trojan.



    McAfee and 4 other anti-malware apps couldn't completely clean my system with McAfee being the worst and that is our corporate standard.



    Guess where I got the Trojan? AppleInsider.com. My PC with XP got infected in a heartbeat and when I came home and went to AppleInsider.com on my MacBook Safari warned me of the malware on the site. I no longer visit AppleInsider.com on my PC. Why can Safari detect malware on a site and IE 7 cannot? Google maybe?



    Of all the operating systems that need a browser to be able to warn of malware you would believe Microsoft would be licensing whatever tech to get this done.



    Move on already! Vista had problems. Windows 7 is optimized like Snow Leopard will be to Leopard. Microsoft need to stand up and demand for the good of the internet and corporation that XP is not for sale. What will corporations do then? They buy Vista and Windows 7 and actually use the products.
  • Reply 12 of 56
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.



    But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.



    If you don't think that the troubles of Vista had a lot to do with the Mac's success over the last few years, then you need to go out more.



    A more accepted MS OS automatically means less Mac sales. Anything to do with MS has a lot to do with Apple (unless Apple = iphone for you).



    Finally, what matters is that this is interesting to the Apple user base. Thats all thats relevant. Next you will be complaining that the NYTimes should not be posting articles about China's growth because they aren't about New York.



    Anyways, the title of this article was pretty clear. If you aren't interested in it, dont click on it.



    Finally, while Win 7 may be faster, if it retains Vista's usability issues, it wont be as successful as XP. Also, most corporates can't move from XP because their in-house software is tied down to it. That is why MS needs to allow the "downgrade".
  • Reply 13 of 56
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.



    But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.



    Actually what happens in the windows side does affect appl. You can't say that a company that has 90% marketplace share has no relevance over the other 10%. Just as whatever apple does with the iPod, iPhone, and iTunes affects windows users. Many an apple user uses boot camp and most use windows xp. I look at this as good news. People can still go out and get windows xp and know that it will still be used for the forseeable future.



    This has always been part if the problem with microsoft. They have a dominant share of the business community but businesses don't like to upgrade. Something tells me that during this economic downturn that xp will be supported even after 2010. Businesses are not going to want spend money it takes. Microsoft is going to have to wait until the economy recovers and then stop support for xp.



    Because of this support for legacy software and marketshare, windows is going to continue to have security issues.
  • Reply 14 of 56
    shookstershookster Posts: 113member
    If this is what Vista should have been, they should offer it at a rock-bottom upgrade price (maybe even free?) to Vista users.



    My grandad's problems ended the day he downgraded to XP, but XP's age means that it is lacking many things you would expect in a modern OS.
  • Reply 15 of 56
    The longer it takes MSFT to deliver a truly world class OS, the better it is for Apple.



    XP Pro/SP2 is preferred by thousands of corporate IT departments. Why? Because it's stable, takes 2GB on disk and, however inelegant it may be, it works. Longhorn would have been terrific, but MSFT never delivered it: not in Vista (of any flavor), not in Vista SP1, and not in Win7. Maybe Windows users will see MSFT deliver on the promise of Longhorn in Windows 7's successor in, what, 2011 -- when XP will be a decade old!?!



    I have struggled with Vista Ultimate since I first implemented it in Fusion (the first public beta) in early 2007. It is better now with SP1, but better is a relative term. Month after month, once or twice a month, I would get 50 - 200MB or more of miscellaneous security patches, bug fixes, stability enhancements, etc. It's lovely to consider that this "improved OS" is 5X bigger (10GB on disk) and slower in every respect, including boot time, than XP.



    Ballmer is correct: Win7 IS the Vista architecture; the casual user will I suspect be impressed with the GUI and speed enhancements, but it's the same size (10GB on disk), it's still bloated, and it's still inefficiently written -- with the same core structure as Vista. I have not tested Snow Leopard, but I suspect that the commenter who compares it to the Win7 public beta will be proved wrong. I will use Win7 for my next VM, but will regret that MSFT remains true to its reputation: an aggressive, sometime monopolist with adequate but not brilliant software that seems to take longer and longer to deliver the next generation of its OS and productivity apps.
  • Reply 16 of 56
    8corewhore8corewhore Posts: 833member
    Sheesh. Windows XP was released in 2001 and they haven't been able to progress properly (putting it mildly). With all their billions, they should do the right thing - but NOOOOOOO because Microsoft just doesn't "get it".
  • Reply 17 of 56
    what a waste of time and money form microsoft. no wonder there is the economic crisis. its like pushing the continued use of the abacus long after the invention of the electronic calculator.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Despite valiant efforts to push its Windows licensees to adopt Vista and the forthcoming Windows 7, Microsoft has one again agreed to extend the option of selling Windows XP for use on new PCs for another year, through April 30, 2010.



    The announcement hasn't been made publicly, but AppleInsider can exclusively report that according to a source within Hewlett Packard, Microsoft has granted the PC giant an extension to its existing rights to continue selling the nearly eight year old Windows XP on the company's business desktops, workstations, and notebooks in place of Windows 7 for another year.



    Microsoft isn't excited about the XP extension, as the internal communique provided by the source stated, "It?s important to remind customers that Microsoft are still planning to retire XP Pro Mainstream support on April 14th 2009 and will only provide OS security updates beyond that date unless the customer has an Extended Hotfix Support contract. MS Extended Support for XP Pro ends on April 8th 2014."



    Out with the new, in with the old



    Microsoft only allows Windows XP Pro or Windows XP Tablet to be bundled with new PCs as restore media, which the company refers to as an "XP downgrade." This enables the company to claim having sold a Windows Vista license for all new shipping PCs; it continues to insist that PC makers ship their machines with Vista pre-installed.



    However, many PC makers prominently feature the "XP downgrade" as a feature of their new machines, although many will apparently will lose the ability to continue offering an alternative to Vista when their XP downgrade rights expire on July 31, unless they are also able to match the deal HP brokered with Microsoft.



    Additionally, corporate PC customers frequently image all the computers they buy with a standardized, site licensed version of Windows customized for their needs. For many companies, this continues to be built upon Windows XP. Microsoft is particularly interested in moving these customers to Vista and its successor, Windows 7, despite their resistance to make the transition.



    Windows 7 downgrade to "allow headroom"



    Microsoft has billed Windows 7 as a completely new operating system, but company executives also admit publicly that the release is really a relatively minor update to Windows Vista.



    "Windows 7," CEO Steve Ballmer stated, "is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance."



    That means that many of the reasons customers have for not migrating to Vista will also be reasons for not wanting to shift to Windows 7, making the availability of an "XP downgrade" an important factor to vendors selling Windows PCs.



    In mid February, Computerworld cited Michael Silver, an analyst with Gartner, as saying, "Downgrade rights are hugely important for Windows 7. Will Microsoft offer downgrades [from Windows 7] to XP? They've not answered that question yet. But it's really important."



    HP's internal communique answers that question in the affirmative, at least for the company's business customers. "Microsoft will allow PC OEMs to structure similar downgrade OS SKUs for Win 7 Professional once available. No formal announcement has been made on the General Availability date for Win 7. However, you can anticipate that business desktops, notebooks and workstations will take advantage of this with the release of Win 7 in the October timeframe to allow our customers maximum headroom as they transition away from XP Pro OS. The Win 7 Professional to XP Pro downgrade OS will also discontinue on April 30th 2010."



    XP rights for home users and netbooks still uncertain



    Whether Microsoft will allow home users and other licensees apart from HP the right to sell new PCs with the bundled restore media to install a pre-Vista version of Windows still remains to be seen. If Microsoft does not, it may face pressure from PC makers and even push them to begin shipping Ubuntu or their own customized edition of Linux on new PCs, as Acer, Dell, HP, and others have already begun doing in the netbook market.



    The inability of Windows Vista to run on netbooks forced Microsoft to offer very low cost licenses for Windows XP to kill off the threat of Linux finding a foothold on low cost hardware. Microsoft has promised that forthcoming versions of Windows 7 would run acceptably on netbooks, but has yet to offer full specifics of how, or how much those netbook licenses would cost.



    Ubuntu CEO Mark Shuttleworth welcomed the prospect of a level playing field in the netbook market, stating in an interview that "a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing OEMs to use low-cost copies of Windows XP instead of paying full price for the full version of the official flagship - Windows Vista."



  • Reply 18 of 56
    palex9palex9 Posts: 105member
    the company is setting itself up, or more accurately, is already dying a slow painful death due to its own incompetence. I installed and tested 'Windows 7'..... and guess what... the emperor has no clothes!



    W7 is basically exactly the same as Vista, same look and feel, same UI, maybe there are tweaks under the hood. but at best W7 is like Vista with a service pack 2.



    Balmer is a total idiot, who like the captain of the titanic, will go under with his ship.



    PS: has anybody else besides me noticed that MS advertising over the last 20 years is the worst? have you seen their moronic 'sufing ceo' ad on msnbc? ms ads are just totally lame, not funny, not witty, not cutting edge, not even visually appealing, nada
  • Reply 19 of 56
    irelandireland Posts: 17,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StormChaser View Post


    what a waste of time and money form microsoft. no wonder there is the economic crisis. its like pushing the continued use of the abacus long after the invention of the electronic calculator.



    I wouldn't go that far.
  • Reply 20 of 56
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    This is so stupid!



    As long as XP continues to thrive malware makers have a sure way to propagate their crud. I work at a company of 30K + employees and got a trojan that destroyed my system a few weeks ago. I called our helpdesk to reimage my laptop as no personal files were kept there. The lead helpdesk tech told me he had the same trojan.



    McAfee and 4 other anti-malware apps couldn't completely clean my system with McAfee being the worst and that is our corporate standard.



    Guess where I got the Trojan? AppleInsider.com. My PC with XP got infected in a heartbeat and when I came home and went to AppleInsider.com on my MacBook Safari warned me of the malware on the site. I no longer visit AppleInsider.com on my PC. Why can Safari detect malware on a site and IE 7 cannot? Google maybe?



    Of all the operating systems that need a browser to be able to warn of malware you would believe Microsoft would be licensing whatever tech to get this done.



    Move on already! Vista had problems. Windows 7 is optimized like Snow Leopard will be to Leopard. Microsoft need to stand up and demand for the good of the internet and corporation that XP is not for sale. What will corporations do then? They buy Vista and Windows 7 and actually use the products.



    LOL! That is what you get for using Winblows.
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