As I stated, it's not identical, not even close unless we close our eyes real tight and pretend really hard. I suppose that both machines have Intel processors that must be identical. (sarcasm) The CPU differences along cost more than $100 on the MBP than the XPS you list. It's faster and has double the L2 cache. Dell sells that same CPU for the XPS for an additional $125 as a BTO option. That doesn't mean much to most people so spec sheets often don't list it and with a measly measurement of Megabytes appended to it even people that call themselves "tech savvy" don't care. "Megabytes? What is this 1990?" But that doubling does make a difference when doing actually work.
Then there is your superficial listing of the XPS' LCD resolution but you didn't list the backlighting, much less the display type. I don't think I've seen any 16" IPS displays on notebook. Do you really expect a pro to do any real colour work on that XPS? You'll also need to upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate to offer the most similar OS features to OS X across the board. There goes another $150.
You also mention the video card being better. I have no need for excessive graphics so I don't such things but I do know that 2 is more than 1 and the MBP has the 9400M and the 9600. But I must ask how much better is the 512MB ATI Mobility RADEON in the XPS over the 512MB Nvidia 9600M in the MBP? What is the price the difference between these two new graphics processors in the MBP v. the one in the XPS?
Your durability statement is only anecdotal and the MBP may be overkill to most people but you can't think that a milled piece of aluminum that doesn't flex is as comparable to plastic molded pieces glued and snapped together. Though, it does weight a pound more than the MBP and it considerably thicker so perhaps that extra weight has gone to making the plastic frame nice and tough. I wonder how much that costs?
How is the quietness of the XPS? How big is the battery in mAh? How long does it last on a full charge? How long does it take to charge? What is the quality of the keybaord for prolonged typing (that one is hard to quantify, easier to cmpare)? What is the power supply wattage? What are the operating temperatures? What types of external displays can I hook it up to? What type of networking is there? How fast are various networking types? Does it have optical audio in/out? You don't mention that you'll have to spend another $80 on a battery or $45 on a WiFI card that most resembles the MBP build, or that the size and the XPS is now even more weighty than before because of these additions.
These questions, technical concerns and all these additions that make it a better comparison you have never asked about. You just see 16" is bigger than 15" and went from there. That is fine, you are most people and need only "good enough". There is no computer that fits everyone's needs. If you 4 year old Inspirion 6000 works for you that is great, but what I don't understand is why you would come onto an internet forum, of all things, just to tell people off because they have different needs than you. Tell me, why are we all stupid for not getting a Dell just because you like yours so much? Why do you find it impossible for one product to fit your needs and one product to fit my needs. I think the both products are fine, but neither one that we have discussed suits my needs very well.
You can get very deep review of Dell Studio XPS 16 at http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3540. It is great laptop but not perfect. Screen appears to be absolutely brilliant - and yes, I think it should be great for pro work. You'll find all the info on gamut, white and black levels, contrast... Battery not so stellar. And so on.
Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. These ads are completely about HARDWARE specs. Apple is both a hardware and software company, something Microsoft cannot truly say. I find it telling that in the past 2 years, we haven't really seen a thing from Microsoft about their Software. Sure i have seen some kids show me how easy it is to make a slideshow on their tv.
These are HP Ads. I could care less if HP made an ad like this. They should be. But for some reason Microsoft has to put the gloves on and step in the ring for them. Seriously, attack ads from a software company about hardware differences? Its not about who has more GHz or RAM or memory speeds or anything. It never has been. Microsoft really doesn't get it.
Maybe because "Get a Mac" campaign was much more about software, though it was supposed to sell computers (hardware)..?
And actually guys, MS does make a computer. It's called X-Box. How many people bashing MS on here own one of those? Technically it's more like a computer than a traditional gaming platform.
HDD brand generally a seagate, Notebooks don't tecnically have a Power Supply, they have an AC Adapter going to DC Power, Screens vary on model and who won the bid for OEM, I've seen Philipps, I've Seen LG, MLB is an Apple Designed board manufactured by Intel.
HP
hard disk, whatever was cheap that week, AC Adapter, whatever was cheap that week, screens, whatever was cheap that week, Motherboard, whatever was cheap that week,(seriously, these aren't consistent) Case plastics...Fisher-Price.
Wow. WOW! Thanks for that input! That reveals sooo much!!! [/sarcasm]
No, really. I'd require more specific details than that.
Any chance you could give us a hint as to which Mac model you're aiming for? I'll assume it's the top-of-the-line iMac. If so, you will not be able to find or build a comparable PC. There is nothing in the PC world that matches this superb iMac all-in-one.
Quote:
4 gb corsair 1066mhz ram. $129.99 (this is Mac Ram)
No, it's not. The iMac uses DDR3. You're quoting DDR2.
Quote:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8500 - Retail - $189.99
You're way off base here. The iMac 3.06 GHz uses the X9100 Penryn XE processor with a 44W TDP and an MSRP of $851. The CPU you quoted has an MSRP of just $266.
Sorry--no go here either. The Acer is a 6-bit display whereas the 24" iMac's is an 8-bit display. The 24" iMac display also has a much wider viewing angle than the Acer.
Quote:
-PC with IMac Specs-$1594.94
Now add about $30 for the RAM, $500 for the CPU, and $200 for the display and you get approximately $2,325 or $125 more than the iMac.
However, you're not finished yet. To your $2,325 system, you have to add:
a keyboard
a mouse
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
FireWire 800
a webcam
self-powered speakers
optical audio I/O
iLife (unfortunately, there is no equivalent for Windows, so good luck!)
your labor
a 1 year single-source warranty
I presume you're using Linux and that's why you haven't included the cost of the OS...
So, your system is now up to $2,550++ and it's still not comparable. Not looking like much of a bargain...
And it will seem even sillier in 5 years when you are still using the same functional computer, but the dell owner will be on her second or third machine.
People, you are incredible!
I can't recall I've ever seen such self-indulgence!
The funny thing about your statements and those that think like you just go to show that Windoze is scared to death that people will pay more for styling, for function, and for a better OS. That bonehead in the commercial that claimed to be tech savvy was laughable. Obviously he did no homework and embarrassed himself. MS knows that people will pay more for something that will have a higher resale value (compare a 1 or 2 year old Mac with any HP or Dell and see which retains value). You might pay more initially for a Mac but what you save in extras evens out in the end. Bottom line, Macs market share will increase and MS will wane but it will never get to the point where MS is not an influential player.
Some people will pay more for styling.
Some people will prefer to have the job done while saving money for something else.
Macs are retaining value - among the other things - because next year Macs are almost the same with this year Macs. PCs are evolving faster, which is devaluating previous generations much faster. Additionally, PCs are much more common entities, and more competition in new and second hand markets is forcing prices down.
That being said, I hope Macs market will increase; that will force Microsoft to invest more effort in making next Windows, and in return better Windows will force Apple to be more competitive price wise. Great for all of us.
Comparing an over priced piece of garbage laptop to a solid but overpriced laptop doesn't say much. Sure if you gave me only the coice between that Mac and the Dell, I'd take the Mac. If you gave me a choice between Alienware or shuttle VS. a Mac. We would be having a much different conversation.
I see you know lots about components, and for all I know you're a C++ programmer, but I think you don't get that for most people who buy Macs the thing about 'em is you don't have to know much about gear or about security and anti-malware software and what to do about User Control Access prompts, only have to reboot when there's a major system update, and whether if you have a problem the hardware support people will tell you it's an OS problem and refer you to MS, and MS will tell you it's a component problem, so you call Dell back (in Bangalore) and 30 minutes later they have you calling the graphics card vendor, whereas with Apple Care there's a single point of accountable support in fluent English for the most part. It's always having the menu in the same place, installing programs by dragging an icon half an inch, having more things work the same way in more programs. It's playing with delightfully designed software rather than managing systems and hardware.
And to whatever extent there's an "Apple Tax," for those of us who'd be buying in Apple's general price ranges, for the benefits above it's well worth it to those folks. (This premium is overrated by Win fans, but it exists in some ways.)
Friends still call me for Win Support, and luckily I'm beginning to forget how to help them because I've been able to rededicate the part of my brain reserved for exotic computer maintenance knowledge to more useful purposes.
You're a geek who reads spec sheets on mobos in your spare time, "not that there's anything wrong with that" (I used to be one in fact), so you'll likely never be a Mac type and should never consider one. Some people build their own homes too, just the way they like 'em and save some $ in the process, but me, I just like to turn the key and walk into one that's pretty cool and pre-configured with 90% of my wish list about what should be in the house, where it should be and how it's put together.
But I'll bet you are a good fisherman. 'Cos you've had people constantly rising to take your bait ever since you joined this thread.
One of the reasons Mac's run like a Mac should, is because it's hardware is in part, designed by Apple. Apple works closely with it's suppliers to make their designs integrate as much as possible with Apples other hardware and OS. Indeed Apple has gained such a lead in the performance and reliability in their products through this relationship with their suppliers that MS is pushing their PC makers to take the same approach, as consumers aren't happy. One down side of that though, for the PC makers is that it pushes up their prices, which given the fierce competition to keep prices low means that that's going to be a steep hill for the PC makers to climb. If you want a computer that's fun and easy to use and is reliably so, then get a Mac.
Mate. This sounds as North Korean propaganda pamphlet
Performance and reliability..?
What about things like recent dodgy graphics with display corruption? Previous generations of problematic graphics chips? Is that also result of Apple's design integrated?
Amount of vapourware and urban myths around here is incredible...
OS, bundled software, support, and quality of components, uptime, ease up upgrade (with Migration assistant or the fact you can pull a hard disk out of one Mac install it in another and it will boot without SSID issues, or dirver issues.) I don't have to buy additional codecs for my computer to play a DVD, I don't have to buy additional software just to burn a DVD, I don't have to buy anti-virus software and renew it every year. I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars to get a real incremental backup solution. I don't have to worry about missing or corrupt dlls.
$900 more? I've made that money back 8 times in the last year alone, just in the amount of time I've saved.
I know this doesn't apply necessarily to consumers, but when the software I run on my computer costs $25,000, I don't care how much the computer cost, and when I make that money back on the first project I do, I don't care there either. I know plenty of companies around here that have bought MacBook Pros to install Windows on it and run Revit. They went that way because the PC that could run it just as well cost $500 more and wieghed 14 pounds. Plus because they weren't going to be discontinuing the MacBook Pro and replace it with something "similar" which happens all the time in the PC world (btw, the only thing similar in those PCs are the color) it makes supporting them a lot easier.
I had 6 PCs come in to the shop this weekend frantic because "I run My Business off this thing, I need it fixed now" Why anyone buys a $600 consumer laptop to run their business off of is beyond me. (Why they don't backup is a completely other issue) The quickest I could get the parts in was 8 days later. For Apple, I wait until they deliver the part on the Next Day. Dell can't do that anymore, they stopped that practice 3 years ago.
When you have a problem with Windows on an HP, Dell, or whatever, who do you call? The computer maker? They will send you to Microsoft, if Microsoft determines it is a driver issue, they will direct you elsewhere. When you have a problem with Mac OS X, you call Apple. You get the whole package.
Am I denying Apple computers cost more, No, do they cost too much? I don't think so, because my return on investment is always over 100%, can I get that with a PC, perhaps, never had a reason to try. I just know that since I've serviced over 4,000 computers in the last 3 years, I know what I like.
I'm still waiting on proof about quality of components. All I see so far is bragging. Other things:
- Windows Easy Transfer will transfer your documents and settings between different computers and Windows versions.
- I have never-ever purchased codec for any of my Windows computers. Please provide some details.
- Windows has some burning capabilities on it's own, and every burner comes with burning and additional software - usually some of Nero packs.
- I haven't spent a $ on antivirus software; all my PCs are running AVG or Comodo antivirus, both free, with automatic updates. There are 8 computers in my house. 5 are in use daily. Time for maintenance beside initial setup? None. Everything is set and forget.
- Vista Business and Ultimate both have automated backup, System Restore for reverting to previous system configurations without data loss and will keep previous versions of user files based on Microsoft shadow copy technology. Advanced backup solutions - like StorageCraft ShadowProtect, with hardware independent restore, will cost you less than us$70. What are we talking about here?
- I agree with you that, if you are a pro and have big money invested in software and other equipment (say, photo gear), price difference in computing hardware can be irrelevant. For everyone else, Macs are more expensive than PCs. Even after purchasing additional iLife grade software. Some are willing to pay for good looks and OSX. Some are not. At the end of day, it is all down to personal preference and budget.
Apart from every design house, advertising company, video editing company, sound studio, etc. The only person I know who doesn't use a Mac is my brother... who works for IBM.
I've not seen so much PC trolling for years. This must be costing MS a fortune.
That quote from me was referring to cars, not Macs. How many design house, adverstising companies, video editing companies are there? In fact, I'm guessing that the workforce of IMB alone is greater than all those other companies combined. The vast, and I do mean vast, majority of people, employed or otherwise, use PCs and that's a fact.
I don't work for MS either, I work in telecoms. I just prefer Windows. I game, overclock, upgrade hardware and generally like to tweak my computer so Macs aren't an option for me.
It's like talking to Jehovah Witnesses. There is no experience, it's an OS. It runs what you want it to run. Mac has a brilliant PR and Marketing department that has made you think there is an "experience". Also the whole Easter bunny thing isn't real either. You are perfect money making machines. It's scary to think this is how religion works.
For me the experience is the OS not getting in my way, bugging me with annoying messages every time I plug something in, remove something, change something, etc...
And by the way the Mach kernel and Linux kernels are two completely different entities.
Comparing an over priced piece of garbage laptop to a solid but overpriced laptop doesn't say much. Sure if you gave me only the coice between that Mac and the Dell, I'd take the Mac. If you gave me a choice between Alienware or shuttle VS. a Mac. We would be having a much different conversation.
Thats the problem. Dell is not by any stretch of the imagination the top computer maker for laptops. Your comparison doesn't show anything of any substance.
Here, for 1399.00 you can own an Alienware M17
# ntel® Core?2 Extreme Quad (4 cores)
# ATI CrossFireX? Dual Graphics (mucho better Graphics)
# 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 Memory
# 1TB Hard Drive Capacity
# Extreme High Def Video and Audio
Over 600.00 dollars cheaper than the Mac.
Or for 1999.99 you can have a small Shuttle PC With much better specs than your macs.
Quad-Core Intel® Xeon® processor or Intel® Core?2 Extreme processor
\tYour choice of single or dual NVIDIA® Quadro® FX graphic cards
\tPCI Express Gen 2.0 with ATI CrossFireX? Technology
\tDolby® Digital Live! and DTS connect surround sound
\tAll solid capacitors motherboard design to ensure durability
\tDynamic Over-clocking Technology
\tUp to 2.2TB of Internal Storage Capacity*
\tUp To 8GB of DDR2 Memory*
\t
\tDimensions
(D) 12.8" x (W) 8.6" x (H) 8.2"
The fact remains, your precious uber faster elite alienware laptop will still be running windoze :-(. I would still buy a slower mac for the reasons its underpinnings will be Unix. Why would I want to bog down my hardware resources with virus scanners, spyware software.
The fact remains, your precious uber faster elite alienware laptop will still be running windoze :-(. I would still buy a slower mac for the reasons its underpinnings will be Unix. Why would I want to bog down my hardware resources with virus scanners, spyware software.
So you're willing to spend $600 more for slower hardware just so you can have OSX... Wow... Why don't just buy a netbook and you'll have a Hackintosh for next to nothing or would buying anything non-Apple branded be a mortal sin...
Mate. This sounds as North Korean propaganda pamphlet
Performance and reliability..?
What about things like recent dodgy graphics with display corruption? Previous generations of problematic graphics chips? Is that also result of Apple's design integrated?
Amount of vapourware and urban myths around here is incredible...
At least with a Mac, your fully covered. Apple take responsibility for everything in that computer. So when something goes wrong you know exactly who your dealing with, Apple. Because of Apple carefully integrating it's software and making design specifications directly to it's external hardware suppliers, redesigned to work exclusively with Apple's other hardware and OS X, it goes wrong far less often. No other PC maker can integrate their parts with their OS like that.
Comments
As I stated, it's not identical, not even close unless we close our eyes real tight and pretend really hard. I suppose that both machines have Intel processors that must be identical. (sarcasm) The CPU differences along cost more than $100 on the MBP than the XPS you list. It's faster and has double the L2 cache. Dell sells that same CPU for the XPS for an additional $125 as a BTO option. That doesn't mean much to most people so spec sheets often don't list it and with a measly measurement of Megabytes appended to it even people that call themselves "tech savvy" don't care. "Megabytes? What is this 1990?" But that doubling does make a difference when doing actually work.
Then there is your superficial listing of the XPS' LCD resolution but you didn't list the backlighting, much less the display type. I don't think I've seen any 16" IPS displays on notebook. Do you really expect a pro to do any real colour work on that XPS? You'll also need to upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate to offer the most similar OS features to OS X across the board. There goes another $150.
You also mention the video card being better. I have no need for excessive graphics so I don't such things but I do know that 2 is more than 1 and the MBP has the 9400M and the 9600. But I must ask how much better is the 512MB ATI Mobility RADEON in the XPS over the 512MB Nvidia 9600M in the MBP? What is the price the difference between these two new graphics processors in the MBP v. the one in the XPS?
Your durability statement is only anecdotal and the MBP may be overkill to most people but you can't think that a milled piece of aluminum that doesn't flex is as comparable to plastic molded pieces glued and snapped together. Though, it does weight a pound more than the MBP and it considerably thicker so perhaps that extra weight has gone to making the plastic frame nice and tough. I wonder how much that costs?
How is the quietness of the XPS? How big is the battery in mAh? How long does it last on a full charge? How long does it take to charge? What is the quality of the keybaord for prolonged typing (that one is hard to quantify, easier to cmpare)? What is the power supply wattage? What are the operating temperatures? What types of external displays can I hook it up to? What type of networking is there? How fast are various networking types? Does it have optical audio in/out? You don't mention that you'll have to spend another $80 on a battery or $45 on a WiFI card that most resembles the MBP build, or that the size and the XPS is now even more weighty than before because of these additions.
These questions, technical concerns and all these additions that make it a better comparison you have never asked about. You just see 16" is bigger than 15" and went from there. That is fine, you are most people and need only "good enough". There is no computer that fits everyone's needs. If you 4 year old Inspirion 6000 works for you that is great, but what I don't understand is why you would come onto an internet forum, of all things, just to tell people off because they have different needs than you. Tell me, why are we all stupid for not getting a Dell just because you like yours so much? Why do you find it impossible for one product to fit your needs and one product to fit my needs. I think the both products are fine, but neither one that we have discussed suits my needs very well.
You can get very deep review of Dell Studio XPS 16 at http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3540. It is great laptop but not perfect. Screen appears to be absolutely brilliant - and yes, I think it should be great for pro work. You'll find all the info on gamut, white and black levels, contrast... Battery not so stellar. And so on.
Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. These ads are completely about HARDWARE specs. Apple is both a hardware and software company, something Microsoft cannot truly say. I find it telling that in the past 2 years, we haven't really seen a thing from Microsoft about their Software. Sure i have seen some kids show me how easy it is to make a slideshow on their tv.
These are HP Ads. I could care less if HP made an ad like this. They should be. But for some reason Microsoft has to put the gloves on and step in the ring for them. Seriously, attack ads from a software company about hardware differences? Its not about who has more GHz or RAM or memory speeds or anything. It never has been. Microsoft really doesn't get it.
Maybe because "Get a Mac" campaign was much more about software, though it was supposed to sell computers (hardware)..?
You can even run Linux on it
DDR3 has large performance gains over DDR2 of the same bus speed.
Check this link and then come back:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=1
And actually guys, MS does make a computer. It's called X-Box.
Yup, and instead of the blue screen of death you get the red ring of death. different product, same result - gotta love microsoft.
HDD brand generally a seagate, Notebooks don't tecnically have a Power Supply, they have an AC Adapter going to DC Power, Screens vary on model and who won the bid for OEM, I've seen Philipps, I've Seen LG, MLB is an Apple Designed board manufactured by Intel.
HP
hard disk, whatever was cheap that week, AC Adapter, whatever was cheap that week, screens, whatever was cheap that week, Motherboard, whatever was cheap that week,(seriously, these aren't consistent) Case plastics...Fisher-Price.
Wow. WOW! Thanks for that input! That reveals sooo much!!! [/sarcasm]
No, really. I'd require more specific details than that.
Does Giampaolo know that PC World on Jul 25, 2007, rated MACBook Pro as the best machine to run Vista
He does.
He also knows in the last 2 years Macs haven't changed much, while PCs have changed a lot.
The Mac I based this on was the $2199.00
Any chance you could give us a hint as to which Mac model you're aiming for? I'll assume it's the top-of-the-line iMac. If so, you will not be able to find or build a comparable PC. There is nothing in the PC world that matches this superb iMac all-in-one.
4 gb corsair 1066mhz ram. $129.99 (this is Mac Ram)
No, it's not. The iMac uses DDR3. You're quoting DDR2.
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8500 - Retail - $189.99
You're way off base here. The iMac 3.06 GHz uses the X9100 Penryn XE processor with a 44W TDP and an MSRP of $851. The CPU you quoted has an MSRP of just $266.
Back to the drawing boards...
Acer G24 Orange 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail -$379.99
Sorry--no go here either. The Acer is a 6-bit display whereas the 24" iMac's is an 8-bit display. The 24" iMac display also has a much wider viewing angle than the Acer.
-PC with IMac Specs-$1594.94
Now add about $30 for the RAM, $500 for the CPU, and $200 for the display and you get approximately $2,325 or $125 more than the iMac.
However, you're not finished yet. To your $2,325 system, you have to add:
- a keyboard
- a mouse
- Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
- FireWire 800
- a webcam
- self-powered speakers
- optical audio I/O
- iLife (unfortunately, there is no equivalent for Windows, so good luck!)
- your labor
- a 1 year single-source warranty
I presume you're using Linux and that's why you haven't included the cost of the OS...So, your system is now up to $2,550++ and it's still not comparable. Not looking like much of a bargain...
And it will seem even sillier in 5 years when you are still using the same functional computer, but the dell owner will be on her second or third machine.
People, you are incredible!
I can't recall I've ever seen such self-indulgence!
I wonder why we never hear stories upon stories of mac users switching to PC's but we always here of PC users switching.
Isn't every Mac user with Windows and Bootcamp a bit of a switcher? Commuter-switcher? Occasional switcher? Maybe casual switcher..?
The funny thing about your statements and those that think like you just go to show that Windoze is scared to death that people will pay more for styling, for function, and for a better OS. That bonehead in the commercial that claimed to be tech savvy was laughable. Obviously he did no homework and embarrassed himself. MS knows that people will pay more for something that will have a higher resale value (compare a 1 or 2 year old Mac with any HP or Dell and see which retains value). You might pay more initially for a Mac but what you save in extras evens out in the end. Bottom line, Macs market share will increase and MS will wane but it will never get to the point where MS is not an influential player.
Some people will pay more for styling.
Some people will prefer to have the job done while saving money for something else.
Macs are retaining value - among the other things - because next year Macs are almost the same with this year Macs. PCs are evolving faster, which is devaluating previous generations much faster. Additionally, PCs are much more common entities, and more competition in new and second hand markets is forcing prices down.
That being said, I hope Macs market will increase; that will force Microsoft to invest more effort in making next Windows, and in return better Windows will force Apple to be more competitive price wise. Great for all of us.
Comparing an over priced piece of garbage laptop to a solid but overpriced laptop doesn't say much. Sure if you gave me only the coice between that Mac and the Dell, I'd take the Mac. If you gave me a choice between Alienware or shuttle VS. a Mac. We would be having a much different conversation.
I see you know lots about components, and for all I know you're a C++ programmer, but I think you don't get that for most people who buy Macs the thing about 'em is you don't have to know much about gear or about security and anti-malware software and what to do about User Control Access prompts, only have to reboot when there's a major system update, and whether if you have a problem the hardware support people will tell you it's an OS problem and refer you to MS, and MS will tell you it's a component problem, so you call Dell back (in Bangalore) and 30 minutes later they have you calling the graphics card vendor, whereas with Apple Care there's a single point of accountable support in fluent English for the most part. It's always having the menu in the same place, installing programs by dragging an icon half an inch, having more things work the same way in more programs. It's playing with delightfully designed software rather than managing systems and hardware.
And to whatever extent there's an "Apple Tax," for those of us who'd be buying in Apple's general price ranges, for the benefits above it's well worth it to those folks. (This premium is overrated by Win fans, but it exists in some ways.)
Friends still call me for Win Support, and luckily I'm beginning to forget how to help them because I've been able to rededicate the part of my brain reserved for exotic computer maintenance knowledge to more useful purposes.
You're a geek who reads spec sheets on mobos in your spare time, "not that there's anything wrong with that" (I used to be one in fact), so you'll likely never be a Mac type and should never consider one. Some people build their own homes too, just the way they like 'em and save some $ in the process, but me, I just like to turn the key and walk into one that's pretty cool and pre-configured with 90% of my wish list about what should be in the house, where it should be and how it's put together.
But I'll bet you are a good fisherman. 'Cos you've had people constantly rising to take your bait ever since you joined this thread.
One of the reasons Mac's run like a Mac should, is because it's hardware is in part, designed by Apple. Apple works closely with it's suppliers to make their designs integrate as much as possible with Apples other hardware and OS. Indeed Apple has gained such a lead in the performance and reliability in their products through this relationship with their suppliers that MS is pushing their PC makers to take the same approach, as consumers aren't happy. One down side of that though, for the PC makers is that it pushes up their prices, which given the fierce competition to keep prices low means that that's going to be a steep hill for the PC makers to climb. If you want a computer that's fun and easy to use and is reliably so, then get a Mac.
Mate. This sounds as North Korean propaganda pamphlet
Performance and reliability..?
What about things like recent dodgy graphics with display corruption? Previous generations of problematic graphics chips? Is that also result of Apple's design integrated?
Amount of vapourware and urban myths around here is incredible...
OS, bundled software, support, and quality of components, uptime, ease up upgrade (with Migration assistant or the fact you can pull a hard disk out of one Mac install it in another and it will boot without SSID issues, or dirver issues.) I don't have to buy additional codecs for my computer to play a DVD, I don't have to buy additional software just to burn a DVD, I don't have to buy anti-virus software and renew it every year. I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars to get a real incremental backup solution. I don't have to worry about missing or corrupt dlls.
$900 more? I've made that money back 8 times in the last year alone, just in the amount of time I've saved.
I know this doesn't apply necessarily to consumers, but when the software I run on my computer costs $25,000, I don't care how much the computer cost, and when I make that money back on the first project I do, I don't care there either. I know plenty of companies around here that have bought MacBook Pros to install Windows on it and run Revit. They went that way because the PC that could run it just as well cost $500 more and wieghed 14 pounds. Plus because they weren't going to be discontinuing the MacBook Pro and replace it with something "similar" which happens all the time in the PC world (btw, the only thing similar in those PCs are the color) it makes supporting them a lot easier.
I had 6 PCs come in to the shop this weekend frantic because "I run My Business off this thing, I need it fixed now" Why anyone buys a $600 consumer laptop to run their business off of is beyond me. (Why they don't backup is a completely other issue) The quickest I could get the parts in was 8 days later. For Apple, I wait until they deliver the part on the Next Day. Dell can't do that anymore, they stopped that practice 3 years ago.
When you have a problem with Windows on an HP, Dell, or whatever, who do you call? The computer maker? They will send you to Microsoft, if Microsoft determines it is a driver issue, they will direct you elsewhere. When you have a problem with Mac OS X, you call Apple. You get the whole package.
Am I denying Apple computers cost more, No, do they cost too much? I don't think so, because my return on investment is always over 100%, can I get that with a PC, perhaps, never had a reason to try. I just know that since I've serviced over 4,000 computers in the last 3 years, I know what I like.
I'm still waiting on proof about quality of components. All I see so far is bragging. Other things:
- Windows Easy Transfer will transfer your documents and settings between different computers and Windows versions.
- I have never-ever purchased codec for any of my Windows computers. Please provide some details.
- Windows has some burning capabilities on it's own, and every burner comes with burning and additional software - usually some of Nero packs.
- I haven't spent a $ on antivirus software; all my PCs are running AVG or Comodo antivirus, both free, with automatic updates. There are 8 computers in my house. 5 are in use daily. Time for maintenance beside initial setup? None. Everything is set and forget.
- Vista Business and Ultimate both have automated backup, System Restore for reverting to previous system configurations without data loss and will keep previous versions of user files based on Microsoft shadow copy technology. Advanced backup solutions - like StorageCraft ShadowProtect, with hardware independent restore, will cost you less than us$70. What are we talking about here?
- I agree with you that, if you are a pro and have big money invested in software and other equipment (say, photo gear), price difference in computing hardware can be irrelevant. For everyone else, Macs are more expensive than PCs. Even after purchasing additional iLife grade software. Some are willing to pay for good looks and OSX. Some are not. At the end of day, it is all down to personal preference and budget.
Apart from every design house, advertising company, video editing company, sound studio, etc. The only person I know who doesn't use a Mac is my brother... who works for IBM.
I've not seen so much PC trolling for years. This must be costing MS a fortune.
That quote from me was referring to cars, not Macs. How many design house, adverstising companies, video editing companies are there? In fact, I'm guessing that the workforce of IMB alone is greater than all those other companies combined. The vast, and I do mean vast, majority of people, employed or otherwise, use PCs and that's a fact.
I don't work for MS either, I work in telecoms. I just prefer Windows. I game, overclock, upgrade hardware and generally like to tweak my computer so Macs aren't an option for me.
Really?
- can you snag the power cord unconcerned that your fumble may pull your PC laptop crashing down on the floor?
- can you put your PC laptop into target disk mode so that its internal drive can be accessed and used as an external drive on another computer?
- can you run your 17" PC laptop for well over 6 hours on the internal battery alone?
- does your PC laptop provide two internal video cards?
- does your PC laptop's trackpad support multi-touch gestures?
- can your PC be safely used for Internet activities without malware protection?
- does your PC provide built-in dual boot capability?
- does your Windows PC provide pre-configured plug-and-play backup?
- does your Windows PC provide built-in virtual workspace capability?
- can you play commercial movie DVDs without installation of additional software?
...and so much more, without even taking into account the integrated capabilities of the iLife suite...
PhoenixRising, you really shouldn't post unless you know what you're talking about...
Is that what you felt when you discovered that Mac users can game natively and upgrade their systems' components?
Go and stick a GTX 295 in and then play Crysis. Then come back to me.
It's like talking to Jehovah Witnesses. There is no experience, it's an OS. It runs what you want it to run. Mac has a brilliant PR and Marketing department that has made you think there is an "experience". Also the whole Easter bunny thing isn't real either. You are perfect money making machines. It's scary to think this is how religion works.
For me the experience is the OS not getting in my way, bugging me with annoying messages every time I plug something in, remove something, change something, etc...
And by the way the Mach kernel and Linux kernels are two completely different entities.
Comparing an over priced piece of garbage laptop to a solid but overpriced laptop doesn't say much. Sure if you gave me only the coice between that Mac and the Dell, I'd take the Mac. If you gave me a choice between Alienware or shuttle VS. a Mac. We would be having a much different conversation.
Thats the problem. Dell is not by any stretch of the imagination the top computer maker for laptops. Your comparison doesn't show anything of any substance.
Here, for 1399.00 you can own an Alienware M17
# ntel® Core?2 Extreme Quad (4 cores)
# ATI CrossFireX? Dual Graphics (mucho better Graphics)
# 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 Memory
# 1TB Hard Drive Capacity
# Extreme High Def Video and Audio
Over 600.00 dollars cheaper than the Mac.
Or for 1999.99 you can have a small Shuttle PC With much better specs than your macs.
Quad-Core Intel® Xeon® processor or Intel® Core?2 Extreme processor
\tYour choice of single or dual NVIDIA® Quadro® FX graphic cards
\tPCI Express Gen 2.0 with ATI CrossFireX? Technology
\tDolby® Digital Live! and DTS connect surround sound
\tBuilt-in PCI Express Mini Card Slot; supports Optional Intel® Turbo Memory*
\t80 PLUS® certified power supply
\tAll solid capacitors motherboard design to ensure durability
\tDynamic Over-clocking Technology
\tUp to 2.2TB of Internal Storage Capacity*
\tUp To 8GB of DDR2 Memory*
\t
\tDimensions
(D) 12.8" x (W) 8.6" x (H) 8.2"
The fact remains, your precious uber faster elite alienware laptop will still be running windoze :-(. I would still buy a slower mac for the reasons its underpinnings will be Unix. Why would I want to bog down my hardware resources with virus scanners, spyware software.
The fact remains, your precious uber faster elite alienware laptop will still be running windoze :-(. I would still buy a slower mac for the reasons its underpinnings will be Unix. Why would I want to bog down my hardware resources with virus scanners, spyware software.
So you're willing to spend $600 more for slower hardware just so you can have OSX... Wow... Why don't just buy a netbook and you'll have a Hackintosh for next to nothing or would buying anything non-Apple branded be a mortal sin...
Mate. This sounds as North Korean propaganda pamphlet
Performance and reliability..?
What about things like recent dodgy graphics with display corruption? Previous generations of problematic graphics chips? Is that also result of Apple's design integrated?
Amount of vapourware and urban myths around here is incredible...
At least with a Mac, your fully covered. Apple take responsibility for everything in that computer. So when something goes wrong you know exactly who your dealing with, Apple. Because of Apple carefully integrating it's software and making design specifications directly to it's external hardware suppliers, redesigned to work exclusively with Apple's other hardware and OS X, it goes wrong far less often. No other PC maker can integrate their parts with their OS like that.