Apple places unusual flash memory order

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Comments

  • Reply 121 of 128
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    At Wizard69,



    You've stated it much better than I did.
  • Reply 122 of 128
    xpcxpc Posts: 12member
    Anyone thought of maybe the return of the Newton, or perhaps (more likely) an iTunes connected (free AT&T 3G downloads) "Kindle" competitor... 1 gb would be more than enough with a flash drive (purchased separately)... would match up with the small screen purchase as well.



    I'd hedge on the Newton's resurrection - with some limited functionality, but largely an iBook Reader...
  • Reply 123 of 128
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xpc View Post


    Anyone thought of maybe the return of the Newton,



    All the time. Frankly one of the reasons I haven't purchased a Touch is the desire for a larger device. Not hugely larger mind you but it does need to support an HD ratio screen.

    Quote:

    or perhaps (more likely) an iTunes connected (free AT&T 3G downloads) "Kindle" competitor... 1 gb would be more than enough with a flash drive (purchased separately)...



    Well this is where our dreams part as the last thing I'd want to see is a 1GB Newton 2. Rather this device would be expected to be the mass storage Touch device. That is a device with at least 3 to 4 times the storage capacity of an current tech Touch. That would mean something like 128GB today. The trick is that it will be the video iPod plus obviously it would run apps. Considering that Apps are easily using a lot of space these days that is important too.



    As for Kindle that is a nice concept but in my mind they blew it with respect to Flash storage. The problem is this, if I start to get magazine subscriptions over the device I'm going to want to keep every copy the same thing with respect to books. Very little ever gets deleted from my physical library so I'd expect the same with the electronic form. The fear is 1GB wouldn't last long at all. It's a rough guess but a tech manuall can be anywhere from a few hundred KB to more than 50 MB each. It would take long to run out of space.

    Quote:

    would match up with the small screen purchase as well.



    I'd hedge on the Newton's resurrection - with some limited functionality, but largely an iBook Reader...



    God I hope not. The last thing Apple needs to do is to implement a limited interest device. The thing that makes the iPhone or Touch devices in general, great is their flexibility. Each owner can tailor the software suite to his needs. A one GB device just puts to many artificial limits on the device.



    Dave
  • Reply 124 of 128
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    Speaking in generalities since I'm still under NDA regarding this deal let me clarify a few points about the NAND Flash industry.



    1) 8Gb is the most ubiquitous density for a monolithic chip shipped in Flash industry. Therefore large orders and production capacities of companies are expressed in 8Gb equivalents. This provides common unit of measurement that everyone in the industry can understand.



    2) There is no such thing as a 128Gb and 64Gb NAND flash chip like the AI article mentioned except in R&D labs. Production is primarily at 8GB, 16Gb, and now some 32Gb. All of these chips can be packaged in single, dual, quad, and octo packages. Packages can be stacked to achieve even higher density.



    3) The spot and contract price for 8Gb MLC is nearly as high as 16Gb MLC making the 16Gb variety actually a better buy for most applications.



    Those points should therefore illustrate that while I cannot comment on the validity of the Digitimes article it should probably be interpreted that Apple has purchased contracts to obtain 100 million 8Gb 'equivalents' in NAND Flash memory for purposes yet to be announced.
  • Reply 125 of 128
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post


    Speaking in generalities since I'm still under NDA regarding this deal let me clarify a few points about the NAND Flash industry.



    1) 8Gb is the most ubiquitous density for a monolithic chip shipped in Flash industry. Therefore large orders and production capacities of companies are expressed in 8Gb equivalents. This provides common unit of measurement that everyone in the industry can understand.



    2) There is no such thing as a 128Gb and 64Gb NAND flash chip like the AI article mentioned except in R&D labs. Production is primarily at 8GB, 16Gb, and now some 32Gb. All of these chips can be packaged in single, dual, quad, and octo packages. Packages can be stacked to achieve even higher density.



    3) The spot and contract price for 8Gb MLC is nearly as high as 16Gb MLC making the 16Gb variety actually a better buy for most applications.



    Those points should therefore illustrate that while I cannot comment on the validity of the Digitimes article it should probably be interpreted that Apple has purchased contracts to obtain 100 million 8Gb 'equivalents' in NAND Flash memory for purposes yet to be announced.



    Very informative post. Appreciate it.
  • Reply 126 of 128
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    I know this stacking of dies has been very popular with some of the Flash producers but realitically you don't get 64 or 128 Gb modules out of 8 Gb devices. As to 64 and 128 Gb devices I have to suggest looking at Microns web site. 64 Gb devices are readily available and to a lesser extent 128 Gb devices. I just don't see Micron stacking 8 or 16, 8Gb devices to get to those densities.



    If I remember correctly several Flash manufactures announced last year that they had single chip 128Gb devices ready for production. It is one of the techs that make those 8 & 16 GB USB dongles possible.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post


    Speaking in generalities since I'm still under NDA regarding this deal let me clarify a few points about the NAND Flash industry.



    1) 8Gb is the most ubiquitous density for a monolithic chip shipped in Flash industry. Therefore large orders and production capacities of companies are expressed in 8Gb equivalents. This provides common unit of measurement that everyone in the industry can understand.



    I just believe that is a bit dated.

    Quote:



    2) There is no such thing as a 128Gb and 64Gb NAND flash chip like the AI article mentioned except in R&D labs. Production is primarily at 8GB, 16Gb, and now some 32Gb. All of these chips can be packaged in single, dual, quad, and octo packages. Packages can be stacked to achieve even higher density.



    Again I believe this to be slightly dated but that might be because I'm following what is the wishful thinking of marketing departments.

    Quote:

    3) The spot and contract price for 8Gb MLC is nearly as high as 16Gb MLC making the 16Gb variety actually a better buy for most applications.



    The drop in pricing has been amazing. This whole rumor about 8Gb devices though has the question of why Apple would buy at that density. It could very well be that Apple isn't and as you suggest the data we see in this report is simply an equivalent value. I can't imagine any handheld device using anything less than newest tech.

    Quote:



    Those points should therefore illustrate that while I cannot comment on the validity of the Digitimes article it should probably be interpreted that Apple has purchased contracts to obtain 100 million 8Gb 'equivalents' in NAND Flash memory for purposes yet to be announced.



    The thought of equivalents is interesting and throws open a number of possibilities. No matter how you look at it we are still talking a lot of Flash. Curiosity is really going to kill the cat here.



    Dave
  • Reply 127 of 128
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I know this stacking of dies has been very popular with some of the Flash producers but realitically you don't get 64 or 128 Gb modules out of 8 Gb devices. As to 64 and 128 Gb devices I have to suggest looking at Microns web site.



    If you look at Micron's website you will see that the 128Gb module they are shipping is 16Gb x8. The 64Gb module is 8Gb x8



    Quote:

    I just believe that is a bit dated.



    Up until a few weeks ago I was working on fulfilling this and other orders at Samsung in their newest Flash fab. So I don't feel that it's too terribly outdated.
  • Reply 128 of 128
    Maybe, going along w/ someone's video camera comment and the rumblings about iPhone video capture, they'll be one 16Gb chip in each iPhone.



    If the iPhone's NAND flash really is 128Gb on one chip, I'm thinking that if these 8Gb chips are SLC chips, they'll last longer and the video-capture wear-and-tear would be moved away from the main iPhone storage.



    It seems like a nice solution and large enough for a decent video capture and long-lasting memory.
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