Competitive challenges and market segmentation demand it.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
You also have to realize AT&T pays Apple a high premium for the iPhone. The point of doing that is to have the ability to make a high premium from the iPhone.
Also AT&T isn't allowed to restrict features and sell proprietary add ons with the iPhone like most carriers do with their feature phones to bring in extra revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
I don't understand your point at all. The carriers have smaller plans that are more money per minute and the amount of the subsidized phone often determines the plans available. The iPhone requires a data plan, but it's also the biggest discount from the retail price of any phone out there. You buy it for $200 in contract and it's $600 outside of contract. Since AT&T and others are the sole providers for the iPhone don't think that they have some super great rate on how much they pay Apple per device. They may even have to pay a lump sum fee or more than the retail price as a bonus for this exclusivity.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
I never said they couldn't do it, I said they make less money at it, far less (per customer). Can you possibly deny that?
If you're not smart enough, Doc, to understand that COMPETITION and MARKET SEGMENTATION are real things, and not just buzz words, you might go back to econ 101.
Profit per customer goes down somewhat probably, but given that all of the providers offer smaller plans for lower monthly charges, they must be profitable, or they providers would not sell them. I certainly would not go nearly as far as to say that it costs AT&T the same to provide a customer with 400 calling minutes as it does for 200. Bandwidth costs, that's one of the things you are paying for.
The maxium profit realized per plan are those where the customer pays for too many minutes and those that pays for too little minutes.
Lower price plans are profitable because their customers have the greatest chance of going over on their allotted minutes. All it takes is a month or two of over usage and that customer could have paid for an unlimited plan with more anytime minutes. Any customers with a teenage kid knows this.
With a higher cost unlimited and more any time minutes plan. Most customers don't even come close to using the minutes they pay for. Use 200 or 300 anytime minutes out of your allotted 500 and you gave the rest away.
Even with a monthly roll over plan, the carriers makes out. That's because it's already figured out that if you're rolling over minutes every month. When are you going to be able to use those roll over minutes. All those roll over minutes do is keep you in their plan. Or you're lose those minutes. Many customers don't want to give them up.
I remember reading about a customer that wanted to sign up for a lower plan so that she can burn up thousands of roll over minutes. But she was told that she couldn't carry those minutes over to a lower plan. Even though she theoretically paid for those roll over minutes.
Yes, this new iPhone plan from AT&T will feature a whopping 30mins of internet access a month with a 10 cent surcharge every time you check/receive email.
I kid, I kid. (But not by much I bet! Let's see what is offered.)
I remember reading about a customer that wanted to sign up for a lower plan so that she can burn up thousands of roll over minutes. But she was told that she couldn't carry those minutes over to a lower plan. Even though she theoretically paid for those roll over minutes.
When you drop down to a lower plan, you lose any rollover minutes in excess of the amount of minutes in your new plan. So if you have 2000 rollover minutes and you switch to a 800 minute plan, you rollovers go back to 800. I just did it - saved $30 on my plan and went from 2000 to 1500. So now I have 1500 rollover to use. Seems like a reasonable plan to me, I wouldn't expect ATT to let me keep all the minutes.
You paid an early termination fee if you got a discounted iPhone, so add that $175 into your monthly fee (prorate over 12 months until further notice). That brings your monthly cost to around $55. Then add in the fact that you had to go through the trouble of unlocking and risking the functionality of your phone, and that you now have to deal with T mobile's lack of 3G coverage, and you're getting the reason.
You say more money than sense, I say more money than time. Time is valuable, and it's worth some amount of money to have everything just work. For instance I'd pay Apple $30 a month for MobileMe's contacts/calendar syncing if that was the price, but thankfully it's only $8 per month. One day you'll earn more money, and you'll have less time, and you'll understand too. If not, then you'll spend 2 hours Saturday afternoon cutting coupons out of the newspaper to save $10 at the store and wonder why all those idiots waste their money buying full priced groceries.
This is right on. I don't want to go through the hassle of making my phone work (though without full functionality) on some other network. It is worth it to me to let AT&T and Apple charge me a bit more money for everything to work seamlessly. It is about opportunity costs. For every hour I spend troubleshooting by jailbroken phone I am walking away from $200 of potential revenue. I'll take the slightly higher monthly premiums thank you.
Guess what? You are wrong. I live in Ann Arbor Michigan. I have an iPhone. I have it unlocked. It runs on T-Mobile. I don't have a data plan. I use Wi-Fi. Compared to my friend's AT&T iPhone it has better reception as well.
Further, I want a smart phone and am willing to pay for a smart phone (as I already did). What I don't want is to be tethered to an overpriced data plan that I don't want or need. You seem to think that having a smartphone requires a data plan. Sorry, it doesn't as I am proof.
My post was making the point if AT&T (and other companies) want to grow their base they will need more flexible pricing plans. Not everybody follows the herd and is willing to be overcharged for unneeded services.
I think you're overlooking a few points:
- Using an iPhone on T-Mobile means you don't get Visual Voicemail You'll say you don't like/need it, but you're still missing out on value. I find it rather useful, and I'm sure many others do as well.
- You say you don't need a data plan. That's fine, but you only have access to those functions that require data access when you're near WiFi. You might argue that you're always near WiFi, but that could mean you never travel, or get out much for that matter.
- You say that you get better reception than your AT&T friend, which may be true. But that depends on where you're at. Again, it seems to suggest that you don't get around much, and I don't mean that in a bad way, just that you're basing your arguments solely on your personal experience, which is totally irrelevant for the rest of us.
- Lastly, you had to go through the process of unlocking your iPhone. It's not a terribly hard thing to do, but it also isn't a perfect solution. I've seen both sides of the argument and it's a push. Some things work better on a jailbroken phone, some work worse. The vast majority of users do not see enough benefit to go through the process, especially with Apple updating the OS every year.
I don't understand your point at all. The carriers have smaller plans that are more money per minute and the amount of the subsidized phone often determines the plans available. The iPhone requires a data plan, but it's also the biggest discount from the retail price of any phone out there. You buy it for $200 in contract and it's $600 outside of contract. Since AT&T and others are the sole providers for the iPhone don't think that they have some super great rate on how much they pay Apple per device. They may even have to pay a lump sum fee or more than the retail price as a bonus for this exclusivity.
Speculate all you like, but my point stands. If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
I never said they couldn't do it, I said they make less money at it, far less (per customer). Can you possibly deny that?
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?
Quote:
If you're not smart enough, Doc, to understand that COMPETITION and MARKET SEGMENTATION are real things, and not just buzz words, you might go back to econ 101.
Item 1. Back off.
Item 2. Right, competition. I've heard of that. AT&T may have to offer tiered service for the iPhone due to their need to compete with other providers. And someone suggested otherwise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW
The maxium profit realized per plan are those where the customer pays for too many minutes and those that pays for too little minutes.
Lower price plans are profitable because their customers have the greatest chance of going over on their allotted minutes. All it takes is a month or two of over usage and that customer could have paid for an unlimited plan with more anytime minutes. Any customers with a teenage kid knows this.
With a higher cost unlimited and more any time minutes plan. Most customers don't even come close to using the minutes they pay for. Use 200 or 300 anytime minutes out of your allotted 500 and you gave the rest away.
Agreed. The cost per minute for the smaller plans is higher, especially if you run over. But they are economical plans for people who simply do not use their mobiles very much. That's why the providers offer them.
Speculate all you like, but my point stands. If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone.
How can your point stand when it's note understood? As for AT&T selling tiered plans for the iPhone, they do, for voice and texts, just not data. The fact that AT&T subsidized the iPhone a lot more than other phones and needs to get paid for that subsidization still stands.
Quote:
Agreed. The cost per minute for the smaller plans is higher, especially if you run over. But they are economical plans for people who simply do not use their mobiles very much. That's why the providers offer them.
Smartphones aren't designed for people who don't use their mobile's very much. AT&T's rates are in line with their plans. their smallest individual plan package is $450 minutes for $39.99 and their unlimited data package is $30. That the $69.99 that iPhone users pay. You can get any of the individual plans AT&T offers and the 6 data plans they offer are separated between the type of device, which really makes it one plan for unlimited personal use. The others have tethering, but we know that is coming.
To summarize, because AT&T's site is very slow. They offer unlimited data with phones for $35/month and tethering for $65/month. The DataConnect 5GB for PCMCIA, SC/34 and USB cards for notebooks is $65/month. The unlimited plans get $5 knocked off if you have a voice plan. The only difference between these and the iPhone is that AT&T requires you to have a voice and data plan, which isn't a big deal and which makes sense since they are subsidizing the crap out of the device and have exclusivity.
PS: I'm not seeing unlimited DataConnect and the prices are $5 more than my 3G USB card. I use 5 GB in under a week with mine. Have the lifted the softcap for these newer accounts?
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?
BBS are great for going back and checking the record. You probably should do that before you reply telling me what I said. Here's what you said, to which I replied "not a chance"
"I certainly would not go nearly as far as to say that it costs AT&T the same to provide a customer with 400 calling minutes as it does for 200. Bandwidth costs, that's one of the things you are paying for.
If the numbers being tossed around are correct (and I think they're close at least), AT&T's cost for an iPhone is $600. They collect $200 from the customer upfront, and make up the balance over the course of the contract, about $17 month. If you're paying $80 a month, that means over $60 a month is bandwidth charges. If they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit. They'd also get a lot more iPhone customers, some of whom may upgrade their service."
There are a few claims in there to which I was responding "not a chance" and never in there did you say "ATT could sell tiered service for the iPhone"
You did say it costs ATT more to provide 400 minutes as it does 200. Not a chance (meaning - maybe a few pennies, but not $5 or more)
You did say "if they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit." Not a chance.
I wouldn't argue that they'd get a lot more iPhone customers, but they would earn less profit than they do with the status quo.
How can your point stand when it's note understood? As for AT&T selling tiered plans for the iPhone, they do, for voice and texts, just not data. The fact that AT&T subsidized the iPhone a lot more than other phones and needs to get paid for that subsidization still stands.
I don't disagree with that, I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to.
Quote:
Smartphones aren't designed for people who don't use their mobile's very much. AT&T's rates are in line with their plans. their smallest individual plan package is $450 minutes for $39.99 and their unlimited data package is $30. That the $69.99 that iPhone users pay. You can get any of the individual plans AT&T offers and the 6 data plans they offer are separated between the type of device, which really makes it one plan for unlimited personal use. The others have tethering, but we know that is coming.
A lot of the talk around the success of the iPhone is how it breaks down the category barriers. A lot of people who buy them are not previous smartphone owners. The question is how far AT&T and Apple want to push the iPhone into more general adoption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
There are a few claims in there to which I was responding "not a chance" and never in there did you say "ATT could sell tiered service for the iPhone"
You did say it costs ATT more to provide 400 minutes as it does 200. Not a chance.
You did say "if they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit." Not a chance.
I wouldn't argue that they'd get a lot more iPhone customers, but they would earn less profit than they do with the status quo.
Maybe you should be clearer about what you mean. I mentioned tiered service in virtually every one of my posts. FWIW, I still disagree, and I think the evidence is in my favor. Neither of us really know about the profitability of one rate plan vs. another. We know only that the providers offer a variety of plans, which they would not do if they were unprofitable.
Trying to remain on the topic, the rumor is that AT&T might become more aggressive with their plan pricing for the iPhone. For the reasons I have already stated, I think it might be true.
I don't disagree with that, I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to.
Yes, the carriers can do what they want. They can offer unlimited everything for 1¢ a year if they want. I'm not sure what the point of telling us that the carriers can offer different plans that suit your needs better than their needs. They are trying to make money, but AT&T's voice plans and data plans match all their other phones. The only difference is that the a voice and data plan are required.
AT&T doesn't list the less than unlimited data package anymore. I don't know if it's a secret option or what the rate and KB max were, but I do recall noting that it wasn't worth it when I signed up for my USB 3G card account. I'm guessing that most people felt that way, too.
So what is your point? AT&T should offer more voice plans for all their phones. AT&T should offer more data plans for all their phones? AT&T shouldn't make you have a voice and data package with your iPhone? AT&T should let me pay $600+ for the iPhone and then let choose a voice and/or data package if I wish?
Yes, the carriers can do what they want. They can offer unlimited everything for 1¢ a year if they want. I'm not sure what the point of telling us that the carriers can offer different plans that suit your needs better than their needs. They are trying to make money, but AT&T's voice plans and data plans match all their other phones. The only difference is that the a voice and data plan are required.
AT&T doesn't list the less than unlimited data package anymore. I don't know if it's a secret option or what the rate and KB max were, but I do recall noting that it wasn't worth it when I signed up for my USB 3G card account. I'm guessing that most people felt that way, too.
So what is your point? AT&T should offer more voice plans for all their phones. AT&T should offer more data plans for all their phones? AT&T should make you have a voice and data package with your iPhone? AT&T should let me pay $600+ for the iPhone and then let choose a voice and/or data package if I wish?
Exactly. His point, clearly, as he said to me, was that ATT could provide cheaper or tiered pricing on the iPhone. To which the world responded with a collective "DUH."
" Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?"
"I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to."
"If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone."
I think the bottom line here is that Doc after making a statement that he realizes isn't true and the evidence is against his point, retreated to repeating an obvious truth over and over, and claiming that the rest of us are crazy and off topic.
I'm sure it's never occurred to him that ATT has examined whether they would make more money or less money if it offered stupid tiered data plans for the iPhone. ATT (obviously) decided not to offer tiered pricing. Now, maybe the Doc is Russian, but here in the USA, we have profit maximizing companies that try to do whatever they can to make the most money for their shareholders, so it's a safe bet that ATT itself thinks that it would make less money doing it that way.
So if the Doc wants to claim that ATT would make more money if they introduced tiered data plans (which thankfully he doesn't seem to, he seems to have backed off that and is only claiming that ATT could offer tiered pricing) then I'm sure he has some evidence that it is true. Evidence powerful enough to contradict the fact that ATT itself, with all its data, has decided that IT doesn't think it will make more money that way.
Ugh. I made a very straight-forward and I would have thought non-controversial point. Consider it or not, it's no skin off my nose -- but I'm not going to respond to anyone who believes that insults are an argument.
How stupid. So you're willing to pay the exact same amount after going through all this trouble to unlock your phone, just because you'd be paying for something you can't get.
It's like you go to McDonalds and a Big Mac and fries cost $4, or you can get a big mac, fries, and a free cab ride to NYC if you ever need it. But no, because you don't want to go to NYC, you're trashing the latter deal as a bad deal. Duh!
Who said I unlocked my phone or would unlock an iPhone 3G??? Nothing of the sort has been done or would be done! How stupid of you to just assume!!!
Who said I unlocked my phone or would unlock an iPhone 3G??? Nothing of the sort has been done or would be done! How stupid of you to just assume!!!
It was deduced by your previous comment...
Quote:
Well I only pay $55/mo with unlimited data and my iPhone was only $500 (with the $100 gift card from Apple). So over 2yrs mine cost me $1,820.
Since the AT&T iPhone plan was never $55 and the original iPhone was never sold as factory unlocked it what else can one think but that you are using it unlocked?
Comments
Competitive challenges and market segmentation demand it.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
Also AT&T isn't allowed to restrict features and sell proprietary add ons with the iPhone like most carriers do with their feature phones to bring in extra revenue.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
I don't understand your point at all. The carriers have smaller plans that are more money per minute and the amount of the subsidized phone often determines the plans available. The iPhone requires a data plan, but it's also the biggest discount from the retail price of any phone out there. You buy it for $200 in contract and it's $600 outside of contract. Since AT&T and others are the sole providers for the iPhone don't think that they have some super great rate on how much they pay Apple per device. They may even have to pay a lump sum fee or more than the retail price as a bonus for this exclusivity.
edit: Pipped by Teno Bell.
That's just a bunch of buzzwords, which add up to nothing. The fact remains that AT&T and all of the other providers already do precisely what you say they can't possibly do for the iPhone.
I never said they couldn't do it, I said they make less money at it, far less (per customer). Can you possibly deny that?
If you're not smart enough, Doc, to understand that COMPETITION and MARKET SEGMENTATION are real things, and not just buzz words, you might go back to econ 101.
Profit per customer goes down somewhat probably, but given that all of the providers offer smaller plans for lower monthly charges, they must be profitable, or they providers would not sell them. I certainly would not go nearly as far as to say that it costs AT&T the same to provide a customer with 400 calling minutes as it does for 200. Bandwidth costs, that's one of the things you are paying for.
The maxium profit realized per plan are those where the customer pays for too many minutes and those that pays for too little minutes.
Lower price plans are profitable because their customers have the greatest chance of going over on their allotted minutes. All it takes is a month or two of over usage and that customer could have paid for an unlimited plan with more anytime minutes. Any customers with a teenage kid knows this.
With a higher cost unlimited and more any time minutes plan. Most customers don't even come close to using the minutes they pay for. Use 200 or 300 anytime minutes out of your allotted 500 and you gave the rest away.
Even with a monthly roll over plan, the carriers makes out. That's because it's already figured out that if you're rolling over minutes every month. When are you going to be able to use those roll over minutes. All those roll over minutes do is keep you in their plan. Or you're lose those minutes. Many customers don't want to give them up.
I remember reading about a customer that wanted to sign up for a lower plan so that she can burn up thousands of roll over minutes. But she was told that she couldn't carry those minutes over to a lower plan. Even though she theoretically paid for those roll over minutes.
I kid, I kid. (But not by much I bet! Let's see what is offered.)
I remember reading about a customer that wanted to sign up for a lower plan so that she can burn up thousands of roll over minutes. But she was told that she couldn't carry those minutes over to a lower plan. Even though she theoretically paid for those roll over minutes.
When you drop down to a lower plan, you lose any rollover minutes in excess of the amount of minutes in your new plan. So if you have 2000 rollover minutes and you switch to a 800 minute plan, you rollovers go back to 800. I just did it - saved $30 on my plan and went from 2000 to 1500. So now I have 1500 rollover to use. Seems like a reasonable plan to me, I wouldn't expect ATT to let me keep all the minutes.
You paid an early termination fee if you got a discounted iPhone, so add that $175 into your monthly fee (prorate over 12 months until further notice). That brings your monthly cost to around $55. Then add in the fact that you had to go through the trouble of unlocking and risking the functionality of your phone, and that you now have to deal with T mobile's lack of 3G coverage, and you're getting the reason.
You say more money than sense, I say more money than time. Time is valuable, and it's worth some amount of money to have everything just work. For instance I'd pay Apple $30 a month for MobileMe's contacts/calendar syncing if that was the price, but thankfully it's only $8 per month. One day you'll earn more money, and you'll have less time, and you'll understand too. If not, then you'll spend 2 hours Saturday afternoon cutting coupons out of the newspaper to save $10 at the store and wonder why all those idiots waste their money buying full priced groceries.
This is right on. I don't want to go through the hassle of making my phone work (though without full functionality) on some other network. It is worth it to me to let AT&T and Apple charge me a bit more money for everything to work seamlessly. It is about opportunity costs. For every hour I spend troubleshooting by jailbroken phone I am walking away from $200 of potential revenue. I'll take the slightly higher monthly premiums thank you.
Guess what? You are wrong. I live in Ann Arbor Michigan. I have an iPhone. I have it unlocked. It runs on T-Mobile. I don't have a data plan. I use Wi-Fi. Compared to my friend's AT&T iPhone it has better reception as well.
Further, I want a smart phone and am willing to pay for a smart phone (as I already did). What I don't want is to be tethered to an overpriced data plan that I don't want or need. You seem to think that having a smartphone requires a data plan. Sorry, it doesn't as I am proof.
My post was making the point if AT&T (and other companies) want to grow their base they will need more flexible pricing plans. Not everybody follows the herd and is willing to be overcharged for unneeded services.
I think you're overlooking a few points:
- Using an iPhone on T-Mobile means you don't get Visual Voicemail You'll say you don't like/need it, but you're still missing out on value. I find it rather useful, and I'm sure many others do as well.
- You say you don't need a data plan. That's fine, but you only have access to those functions that require data access when you're near WiFi. You might argue that you're always near WiFi, but that could mean you never travel, or get out much for that matter.
- You say that you get better reception than your AT&T friend, which may be true. But that depends on where you're at. Again, it seems to suggest that you don't get around much, and I don't mean that in a bad way, just that you're basing your arguments solely on your personal experience, which is totally irrelevant for the rest of us.
- Lastly, you had to go through the process of unlocking your iPhone. It's not a terribly hard thing to do, but it also isn't a perfect solution. I've seen both sides of the argument and it's a push. Some things work better on a jailbroken phone, some work worse. The vast majority of users do not see enough benefit to go through the process, especially with Apple updating the OS every year.
I don't understand your point at all. The carriers have smaller plans that are more money per minute and the amount of the subsidized phone often determines the plans available. The iPhone requires a data plan, but it's also the biggest discount from the retail price of any phone out there. You buy it for $200 in contract and it's $600 outside of contract. Since AT&T and others are the sole providers for the iPhone don't think that they have some super great rate on how much they pay Apple per device. They may even have to pay a lump sum fee or more than the retail price as a bonus for this exclusivity.
Speculate all you like, but my point stands. If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone.
I never said they couldn't do it, I said they make less money at it, far less (per customer). Can you possibly deny that?
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?
If you're not smart enough, Doc, to understand that COMPETITION and MARKET SEGMENTATION are real things, and not just buzz words, you might go back to econ 101.
Item 1. Back off.
Item 2. Right, competition. I've heard of that. AT&T may have to offer tiered service for the iPhone due to their need to compete with other providers. And someone suggested otherwise?
The maxium profit realized per plan are those where the customer pays for too many minutes and those that pays for too little minutes.
Lower price plans are profitable because their customers have the greatest chance of going over on their allotted minutes. All it takes is a month or two of over usage and that customer could have paid for an unlimited plan with more anytime minutes. Any customers with a teenage kid knows this.
With a higher cost unlimited and more any time minutes plan. Most customers don't even come close to using the minutes they pay for. Use 200 or 300 anytime minutes out of your allotted 500 and you gave the rest away.
Agreed. The cost per minute for the smaller plans is higher, especially if you run over. But they are economical plans for people who simply do not use their mobiles very much. That's why the providers offer them.
Speculate all you like, but my point stands. If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone.
How can your point stand when it's note understood? As for AT&T selling tiered plans for the iPhone, they do, for voice and texts, just not data. The fact that AT&T subsidized the iPhone a lot more than other phones and needs to get paid for that subsidization still stands.
Agreed. The cost per minute for the smaller plans is higher, especially if you run over. But they are economical plans for people who simply do not use their mobiles very much. That's why the providers offer them.
Smartphones aren't designed for people who don't use their mobile's very much. AT&T's rates are in line with their plans. their smallest individual plan package is $450 minutes for $39.99 and their unlimited data package is $30. That the $69.99 that iPhone users pay. You can get any of the individual plans AT&T offers and the 6 data plans they offer are separated between the type of device, which really makes it one plan for unlimited personal use. The others have tethering, but we know that is coming.To summarize, because AT&T's site is very slow. They offer unlimited data with phones for $35/month and tethering for $65/month. The DataConnect 5GB for PCMCIA, SC/34 and USB cards for notebooks is $65/month. The unlimited plans get $5 knocked off if you have a voice plan. The only difference between these and the iPhone is that AT&T requires you to have a voice and data plan, which isn't a big deal and which makes sense since they are subsidizing the crap out of the device and have exclusivity.
PS: I'm not seeing unlimited DataConnect and the prices are $5 more than my 3G USB card. I use 5 GB in under a week with mine. Have the lifted the softcap for these newer accounts?
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?
BBS are great for going back and checking the record. You probably should do that before you reply telling me what I said. Here's what you said, to which I replied "not a chance"
"I certainly would not go nearly as far as to say that it costs AT&T the same to provide a customer with 400 calling minutes as it does for 200. Bandwidth costs, that's one of the things you are paying for.
If the numbers being tossed around are correct (and I think they're close at least), AT&T's cost for an iPhone is $600. They collect $200 from the customer upfront, and make up the balance over the course of the contract, about $17 month. If you're paying $80 a month, that means over $60 a month is bandwidth charges. If they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit. They'd also get a lot more iPhone customers, some of whom may upgrade their service."
There are a few claims in there to which I was responding "not a chance" and never in there did you say "ATT could sell tiered service for the iPhone"
You did say it costs ATT more to provide 400 minutes as it does 200. Not a chance (meaning - maybe a few pennies, but not $5 or more)
You did say "if they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit." Not a chance.
I wouldn't argue that they'd get a lot more iPhone customers, but they would earn less profit than they do with the status quo.
How can your point stand when it's note understood? As for AT&T selling tiered plans for the iPhone, they do, for voice and texts, just not data. The fact that AT&T subsidized the iPhone a lot more than other phones and needs to get paid for that subsidization still stands.
I don't disagree with that, I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to.
Smartphones aren't designed for people who don't use their mobile's very much. AT&T's rates are in line with their plans. their smallest individual plan package is $450 minutes for $39.99 and their unlimited data package is $30. That the $69.99 that iPhone users pay. You can get any of the individual plans AT&T offers and the 6 data plans they offer are separated between the type of device, which really makes it one plan for unlimited personal use. The others have tethering, but we know that is coming.
A lot of the talk around the success of the iPhone is how it breaks down the category barriers. A lot of people who buy them are not previous smartphone owners. The question is how far AT&T and Apple want to push the iPhone into more general adoption.
There are a few claims in there to which I was responding "not a chance" and never in there did you say "ATT could sell tiered service for the iPhone"
You did say it costs ATT more to provide 400 minutes as it does 200. Not a chance.
You did say "if they cut the amount of bandwidth in half, they could probably lower the price to $50 and make about the same profit." Not a chance.
I wouldn't argue that they'd get a lot more iPhone customers, but they would earn less profit than they do with the status quo.
Maybe you should be clearer about what you mean. I mentioned tiered service in virtually every one of my posts. FWIW, I still disagree, and I think the evidence is in my favor. Neither of us really know about the profitability of one rate plan vs. another. We know only that the providers offer a variety of plans, which they would not do if they were unprofitable.
Trying to remain on the topic, the rumor is that AT&T might become more aggressive with their plan pricing for the iPhone. For the reasons I have already stated, I think it might be true.
I don't disagree with that, I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to.
Yes, the carriers can do what they want. They can offer unlimited everything for 1¢ a year if they want. I'm not sure what the point of telling us that the carriers can offer different plans that suit your needs better than their needs. They are trying to make money, but AT&T's voice plans and data plans match all their other phones. The only difference is that the a voice and data plan are required.
AT&T doesn't list the less than unlimited data package anymore. I don't know if it's a secret option or what the rate and KB max were, but I do recall noting that it wasn't worth it when I signed up for my USB 3G card account. I'm guessing that most people felt that way, too.
So what is your point? AT&T should offer more voice plans for all their phones. AT&T should offer more data plans for all their phones? AT&T shouldn't make you have a voice and data package with your iPhone? AT&T should let me pay $600+ for the iPhone and then let choose a voice and/or data package if I wish?
Yes, the carriers can do what they want. They can offer unlimited everything for 1¢ a year if they want. I'm not sure what the point of telling us that the carriers can offer different plans that suit your needs better than their needs. They are trying to make money, but AT&T's voice plans and data plans match all their other phones. The only difference is that the a voice and data plan are required.
AT&T doesn't list the less than unlimited data package anymore. I don't know if it's a secret option or what the rate and KB max were, but I do recall noting that it wasn't worth it when I signed up for my USB 3G card account. I'm guessing that most people felt that way, too.
So what is your point? AT&T should offer more voice plans for all their phones. AT&T should offer more data plans for all their phones? AT&T should make you have a voice and data package with your iPhone? AT&T should let me pay $600+ for the iPhone and then let choose a voice and/or data package if I wish?
Exactly. His point, clearly, as he said to me, was that ATT could provide cheaper or tiered pricing on the iPhone. To which the world responded with a collective "DUH."
" Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post
When I suggested that AT&T could sell tiered service for the iPhone, you responded "not a chance." Can you possibly deny that?"
"I am saying quite simply that if AT&T and the other providers can provide tiered service for other phones (which are also subsidized), they can very probably do the same for the iPhone. If they want to."
"If carriers can offer tiered service for every other phone they sell, AT&T can almost certainly do so for the iPhone."
I think the bottom line here is that Doc after making a statement that he realizes isn't true and the evidence is against his point, retreated to repeating an obvious truth over and over, and claiming that the rest of us are crazy and off topic.
I'm sure it's never occurred to him that ATT has examined whether they would make more money or less money if it offered stupid tiered data plans for the iPhone. ATT (obviously) decided not to offer tiered pricing. Now, maybe the Doc is Russian, but here in the USA, we have profit maximizing companies that try to do whatever they can to make the most money for their shareholders, so it's a safe bet that ATT itself thinks that it would make less money doing it that way.
So if the Doc wants to claim that ATT would make more money if they introduced tiered data plans (which thankfully he doesn't seem to, he seems to have backed off that and is only claiming that ATT could offer tiered pricing) then I'm sure he has some evidence that it is true. Evidence powerful enough to contradict the fact that ATT itself, with all its data, has decided that IT doesn't think it will make more money that way.
How stupid. So you're willing to pay the exact same amount after going through all this trouble to unlock your phone, just because you'd be paying for something you can't get.
It's like you go to McDonalds and a Big Mac and fries cost $4, or you can get a big mac, fries, and a free cab ride to NYC if you ever need it. But no, because you don't want to go to NYC, you're trashing the latter deal as a bad deal. Duh!
Who said I unlocked my phone or would unlock an iPhone 3G??? Nothing of the sort has been done or would be done! How stupid of you to just assume!!!
The only rock solid network in my area is Sprint. Now, what does that tell you. Give me coverage!
It tells us nothing whatsoever, since you don't reveal where your area is.
Who said I unlocked my phone or would unlock an iPhone 3G??? Nothing of the sort has been done or would be done! How stupid of you to just assume!!!
How do you use your phone on another network then? Did you buy a factory unlocked one?
Who said I unlocked my phone or would unlock an iPhone 3G??? Nothing of the sort has been done or would be done! How stupid of you to just assume!!!
It was deduced by your previous comment...
Well I only pay $55/mo with unlimited data and my iPhone was only $500 (with the $100 gift card from Apple). So over 2yrs mine cost me $1,820.
Since the AT&T iPhone plan was never $55 and the original iPhone was never sold as factory unlocked it what else can one think but that you are using it unlocked?