Transparent Classic in 10.3 (?)
I remember using Classic in OS X 10.0, and it was a nightmare. Printers needed to be set up differently than from OS X, network settings would never carry over with out a complete Classic restart, etc.
10.1 solved some issues but it still wasn't as seamless as could be, especially concerning networking and printing.
10.2 Classic is a godsend WRT to printing and even networking. Printers made in OS X show up in the print dialog in Classic apps and if you switch network settings in OS X then it ususally reflects in Classic immediately. Especially when you add Search Domains in the Network pref pane. But.... things could be better.
In OS 10.3 I would like to see a tighter integration even if it means no 3rd party control panels or extentions, just the bare minimum to run a functional Classic environment.
(1) I would like to see OS X and OS 9 fonts share the same folder. I love putting a folder of screen fonts and PS fonts and have them displayed in OS X apps as hierarchies. The same fonts should be displayed in Classic apps too with out the need to keep a set of fonts for each environment.
(2) When Classic starts up, there is no need to see the extention march IMO, especially on new machines that cant even boot OS X this year. Classic startup icon in the dock should be replaced with a menu icon at the top. The menu item would show some Classic stats like memory usage, force quit, and the icon itself could should a progress of start up using the round progress pinwheel.
(3) Use the same menu bar as OS X! Who really uses the OS 9 Apple menu for anything in Classic anymore? All the menu items and commands could be piped to OS X menu bar.
(4) Window Frames and Window widgets should match OS X frames and widgets.
(5) Quartz accelerated. They did it with X11, so why not classic.
There are tons of Apps that will never be ported to Carbon or Cocoa. Even now there are apps that are taking too long to port. Some might argue that this would hamper Carbon or Cocoa apodtion but I think that this might have been true when OS X was still young but the situation is different now. Developers know the advantages for developing for OS X native.
10.1 solved some issues but it still wasn't as seamless as could be, especially concerning networking and printing.
10.2 Classic is a godsend WRT to printing and even networking. Printers made in OS X show up in the print dialog in Classic apps and if you switch network settings in OS X then it ususally reflects in Classic immediately. Especially when you add Search Domains in the Network pref pane. But.... things could be better.
In OS 10.3 I would like to see a tighter integration even if it means no 3rd party control panels or extentions, just the bare minimum to run a functional Classic environment.
(1) I would like to see OS X and OS 9 fonts share the same folder. I love putting a folder of screen fonts and PS fonts and have them displayed in OS X apps as hierarchies. The same fonts should be displayed in Classic apps too with out the need to keep a set of fonts for each environment.
(2) When Classic starts up, there is no need to see the extention march IMO, especially on new machines that cant even boot OS X this year. Classic startup icon in the dock should be replaced with a menu icon at the top. The menu item would show some Classic stats like memory usage, force quit, and the icon itself could should a progress of start up using the round progress pinwheel.
(3) Use the same menu bar as OS X! Who really uses the OS 9 Apple menu for anything in Classic anymore? All the menu items and commands could be piped to OS X menu bar.
(4) Window Frames and Window widgets should match OS X frames and widgets.
(5) Quartz accelerated. They did it with X11, so why not classic.
There are tons of Apps that will never be ported to Carbon or Cocoa. Even now there are apps that are taking too long to port. Some might argue that this would hamper Carbon or Cocoa apodtion but I think that this might have been true when OS X was still young but the situation is different now. Developers know the advantages for developing for OS X native.
Comments
The same goes to future X11-development. I hope Apple won't build a WM for X11 that makes all the widgets like buttons, menues and the like Aquafied..
It is meant as a crutch to be able to run old stuff; they want developers and users to transition to Mac OS X native. Apple has little to no incentive to update Classic at all in terms of features.
<strong>My goodness. I haven't booted Classic for such a long time that I completely forgot about it.
Me too
NOT XPress <----- This is very insignificant to me
They're Sound Edit 16 and Fontographer
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
However, we shouldn't necessarily rule out such a thing completely, even though it is unlikely. Remember, the developer builds of OS X had the entire environment running in a separate window. Many doubted we would have the type of integration that Classic now has. It is unlikely though; as moki stated, Apple logically doesn't have any incentive to do much else with Classic (except to make sure it runs on new machines).
[ 01-23-2003: Message edited by: Big Mac ]</p>
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>So I guess we have to put up with an ugly Exchange client forever (Since MS has NO plans on upgrading Outlook 2001). <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> Well we've only had 3 vice presidents turn their PowerBooks in for Toshibas because Classic SUCKS...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, this is an area that needs serious improvement. I wonder if Apple is working on Exchange compatibility for Mail and iCal in 10.3.
If it's helpful, MS just posted a lucid page of current options
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/mac/resources/resources_main.asp?embfname=exchange.asp"; target="_blank">here</a>.
<strong>
Yeah, this is an area that needs serious improvement. I wonder if Apple is working on Exchange compatibility for Mail and iCal in 10.3.
If it's helpful, MS just posted a lucid page of current options
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/mac/resources/resources_main.asp?embfname=exchange.asp"; target="_blank">here</a>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope Apple is giving attention to this also.
That Microsoft page is an insult to Mac techs in my opinion. If your exchange servers do not have IMAP turned on (ours doesn't for security reasons and VPN reasons) then your only solutions are Outlook 2001 in Classic mode and Outook Web access, a poor solution. To see new messages you have to keep refreshing and the collaboration features are severly lacking and incomplete compared to the client and especially compared to the Windows client. Ah well, Microsoft will always continue to treat their Mac customers like second class citizens, but with the MacBU group taking over Exchange compatibility, I hope for a change in heart. But I have heard NOTHING and no rumors on any future Exchange compatibility. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
I'm sure Apple has to be working on improving this, though, in case MS management decides to use it as a card against them.
We have tired IMAP (which seemed like a good alternative), but for some reason it won't work. A few IT guys have come through and they can't get it to work either. I think the reason has something to do w/the Macs being on a different sub-net. Although this shouldn't cause problems, I can tell you from experience that it does. Of course this could also be blamed on the head IT guy having his head up his ass.
This year, we are supposed to be merged into the main sub-net. The guy has spent time and money buying something that will not allow AppleTalk to operate on the new SN. Thank god the SMB support in OSX is decent. He claims AT is too 'chatty' and will bog down the network performance.
I don't see evidence of this. During two weeks of monitoring a network activity, I never saw any significant 'chat.'
But I digress...
Yes, we need an OSX NATIVE Outlook Client or Apple should work a deal w/the devil and incorporate support into mail et al.
<strong>
I hope Apple is giving attention to this also.
That Microsoft page is an insult to Mac techs in my opinion. If your exchange servers do not have IMAP turned on (ours doesn't for security reasons and VPN reasons) then your only solutions are Outlook 2001 in Classic mode and Outook Web access, a poor solution. To see new messages you have to keep refreshing and the collaboration features are severly lacking and incomplete compared to the client and especially compared to the Windows client. Ah well, Microsoft will always continue to treat their Mac customers like second class citizens, but with the MacBU group taking over Exchange compatibility, I hope for a change in heart. But I have heard NOTHING and no rumors on any future Exchange compatibility. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe apple could do something like Evolution did.
<a href="http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/"; target="_blank">http://www.ximian.com/products/connector/</a>;
Or maybe one could get Evolution to work in X11? Is that possible? Just a thought.
Sorry to go OT, but the mere mention of Outlook sends me into uncontrollable fits of rage.
<strong>The guy has spent time and money buying something that will not allow AppleTalk to operate on the new SN. Thank god the SMB support in OSX is decent. He claims AT is too 'chatty' and will bog down the network performance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was a bug in AT in System 7.5, fixed I believe in 7.6.
Funny how long the memories of IT guys are when it's a Mac bug, and how short they are when it's a Windows bug. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Really?!! Thats good to know.
I have a meeting w/these guys next week to discuss our transition to an AT-free network. BTW, I have no technical training in this stuff. My boss made responsible for our Depts Macs because I ended up taking care of them. IT staff will show up and say 'Oh, its a Mac. I don't know Mac." Most of the time, the problem is not Mac specific and could be solved by anyone who know a bit about computer (e.g. IPs, passwords, etc).
Back to the topic of the thread, I could see Apple being motivated to keep Classic in its current 'obtrusive' state. This way, people will not be content w/working in Classic Apps. Y'know a way to force people to upgrade and, by extension, keep devs focused on X.
The one thing I would like to see is somekind of indication that Classic is running. I try to kill it on the rare occasion I use Classic. But, just last week I was wondering WTF was wrong w/my system. I opened ProcViewer and saw TrueBlue eating up 80-90% of my CPU while no Classic apps were running...I had forgotten to shut it down and there was no way to tell it was running outside of Preferences.
[ 01-25-2003: Message edited by: Keda ]</p>