I sold a company to Wind River (device management vendor, Rapid Logic) and have partnered with Intel on/off for 13+ years so I have a pretty well formed perspective on the deal, which I blogged about in:
Closing the Book on Embedded: Intel buys Wind River
I work with vxWorks and Wind River every day and this marriage is akin to Daimler buying Chrysler.
Mark my words! Intel will jetisin them in a couple of years once they learn how big a POS WRS and vxWorks is.
WRS has a monopoly on embedded system in their markets and like most monopolies their support is really really bad! vxWorks is a mediocre POS that is the worst kind of unmanageable "#define" infested spaghetti code. They use a proprietary GNU compiler that is ... well a GNU compiler! what should you expect from a compiler that is for consumer systems.
And as bad as all that is... WRS Linux is even worse! what a cluster frack! And to think we put that on a spacecraft! you had better duck!
Yes they are on Mars and the SW was not even smart enough to prevent too many file being saved on the flash drive so it just locked up solid! really great SW.
Apple has absolutely nothing to worry about with this merger! (except perhaps that WRS might bring mighty Intel to it's knees Then Apple might have to go back to PPC processors.
Very insightful blog, and to be honest, hit the nail where I expected Intel was going with this.
I don't see Intel breaking into software. Its not who Intel are - they simply aren't interested in being direct-to-customer, but if Intel wants to get into the embedded market, they need a foothold of some kind, and grabbing Wind River may just give them the leverage they need.
I don't think this is a big concern on either side. Last I checked Intel and Apple were still two separate companies. I wasn't aware that they needed to be in lock-step with everything they do.
Intel wants to get in the handheld space with x86 and Atom and to ensure people are willing to use Atom in smartphones and embedded applications Intel needs an optimized OS to run on it hence Wind River. I can't see Apple begrudging Intel this. Afterall, if x86 and Atom succeeds in the embedded space, Apple would have the option of using it in the iPhone. Atom's embedded usage is also the perfect fit for the AppleTV, especially since it already uses an x86 version of OS X, and it's also quite possible that future Apple tablets/netbooks would also use x86 and OS X rather than be ARM and iPhone OS based. If necessary, it's probably easier to emulate ARM in x86 than x86 in ARM, especially since even if Atom isn't as power efficient it is faster than ARM processors.
I don't think this is a big concern on either side. Last I checked Intel and Apple were still two separate companies. I wasn't aware that they needed to be in lock-step with everything they do.
Intel wants to get in the handheld space with x86 and Atom and to ensure people are willing to use Atom in smartphones and embedded applications Intel needs an optimized OS to run on it hence Wind River. I can't see Apple begrudging Intel this. Afterall, if x86 and Atom succeeds in the embedded space, Apple would have the option of using it in the iPhone. Atom's embedded usage is also the perfect fit for the AppleTV, especially since it already uses an x86 version of OS X, and it's also quite possible that future Apple tablets/netbooks would also use x86 and OS X rather than be ARM and iPhone OS based. If necessary, it's probably easier to emulate ARM in x86 than x86 in ARM, especially since even if Atom isn't as power efficient it is faster than ARM processors.
vxWorks is a poor choice for an embedded handheld device there is very little support for any advanced UI features (this is not WinCE/OSX... this is a real-time OS). I can't believe Intel bought WRS to get into the consumer arena. More likely they think they can increase the usage of the Atom in embedded (non consumer) space by slowly dropping support for PPC/SPARC... from vxWorks forcing companies to move to their silicon.
fortunately Intel has enough cash to chuck $.8billion dollars out the window without too much impact on their bottom line!
When spending 0.8 Billion dollars, people tend to make rational, long-term decisions.
Tell that to Daimler (Chrysler) , Tell that to Time-Life (AOL)... They spent much more then intel and look at what those investments did to the parent companies!
vxWorks is a poor choice for an embedded handheld device there is very little support for any advanced UI features (this is not WinCE/OSX... this is a real-time OS). I can't believe Intel bought WRS to get into the consumer arena. More likely they think they can increase the usage of the Atom in embedded (non consumer) space by slowly dropping support for PPC/SPARC... from vxWorks forcing companies to move to their silicon.
Krreagan
Maybe that's not their desire.
Intel have already developed Moblin which by reports I've seen isn't bad. Perhaps WR is being bought to help get Moblin on embedded devices, ie Atom SoC designs.
Even more likely is WR has some IP that Intel needs to get SoC designs on Atom.
[i]How long can OS X hold out after ARM falls? hmmm...
I don't think you'll find that ARM Limited and its products will be too bothered by this. There are an awful lot of ARM processor cores in printers, phones, home routers/wireless access points, and even many external storage enclosure "bridge" chips. ARM has a large customer base in these markets because their products do so well at consuming little power while offering fairly rich functionality.
In response to the main article:
As far as Wind River goes, I didn't know that they had much of a presence in the mobile device market. I've seen the most of their software being used in devices such as DSL modems and home/business routers/wireless access points. (I also have a Xerox Phaser printer that runs VxWorks as its embedded operating system.) What press I've read about them suggests that providing the "intelligence" for devices that make up communications backbones and endpoints is their primary business.
If Intel ends up buying them, I think it might be to gain more introspective into how they should build a low power processor and an operating system to go with it. Atom is a good start, and I've been happy with the ones I've used but it doesn't directly compare to the ARM products when it comes to power consumption.
An Intel vice president publicly criticized Apple's choice of ARM for the iPhone's processor architecture late last year and said that the current and future cellphones capable of "full" Internet features as they wouldn't have Intel's x86 processors.
I am not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I am wrong, but is this sentence grammatically correct? I am not sure what it means. What did Intel's VP say? Thanks in advance for explaining.
An Intel vice president publicly criticized Apple's choice of ARM for the iPhone's processor architecture late last year and said that the current and future cellphones capable of "full" Internet features as they wouldn't have Intel's x86 processors.
I am not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I am wrong, but is this sentence grammatically correct? I am not sure what it means. What did Intel's VP say? Thanks in advance for explaining.
No, it’s not.
An Intel vice president publicly criticized Apple's choice of ARM for the iPhone's processor architecture late last year. They said that the current and future cellphones [wouldn’t be] capable of "full" Internet features as they wouldn't have Intel's x86 processors.
No it isn't. Its a very shrewd move on their part, IMO.
They know they need a lightweight efficient SoC design to compete in mobile devices in the future. Instead of relying on others, such as MS, to develop the software they're taking matters into their own hands.
You do know the Wind River is the undisputed leader in developing SW for embedded systems, right? They didn't buy a bozo operation.
Mmm....undisputed leader? Mkay. VxWorks is the defacto RTOS, is lightweight and solid but meh. Wind River may not be "bozo" but I dunno that I'd have spent that kind of money on them.
When ARM is going to release a 1Ghz multi-core Cortex A9 the need for VxWorks is starting to seriously decline.
Embedded Linux is fast enough and Wind River doesn't have THAT much advantage there over LynuxWorks and MontaVista in that arena. Wind River's foray into embedded linux and a Android dev stack is an indicator where the winds are blowing and the end of VxWorks dominance in the embedded world except for those with tight hard real time requirements (which are fewer than you think).
As a former embedded software dev on VxWorks, pSOS and VMExec I'm happy to be "former". Give me Android any day of the week over VxWorks. On the plus side, Wind River is a player in the open handset arena. On the down side, the whole point of that tool chain is that it isn't a single-source proprietary product like VxWorks.
Intel have already developed Moblin which by reports I've seen isn't bad. Perhaps WR is being bought to help get Moblin on embedded devices, ie Atom SoC designs.
Even more likely is WR has some IP that Intel needs to get SoC designs on Atom.
How does WR work on SoC designs? Yes you can park Android/VxWorks/OSX on the flash of a SoC but from the perspective of the operating system SoC vs not should make little difference.
I work with vxWorks and Wind River every day and this marriage is akin to Daimler buying Chrysler.
Mark my words! Intel will jetisin them in a couple of years once they learn how big a POS WRS and vxWorks is.
WRS has a monopoly on embedded system in their markets and like most monopolies their support is really really bad! vxWorks is a mediocre POS that is the worst kind of unmanageable "#define" infested spaghetti code. They use a proprietary GNU compiler that is ... well a GNU compiler! what should you expect from a compiler that is for consumer systems.
And as bad as all that is... WRS Linux is even worse! what a cluster frack! And to think we put that on a spacecraft! you had better duck!
Yes they are on Mars and the SW was not even smart enough to prevent too many file being saved on the flash drive so it just locked up solid! really great SW.
Apple has absolutely nothing to worry about with this merger! (except perhaps that WRS might bring mighty Intel to it's knees Then Apple might have to go back to PPC processors.
Krreagan
Yah, agreed. The only good thing you can say about WRS is they sucked less than their now mostly defunct competitors. Some purchased (and killed) by WRS (like pSOS) and some that died out on their own (Motorolla which killed VMEexec eventually). I guess VRTX is still around as is LynuxWorks.
Debugging sucked on VxWorks because you ended up stuck with gdb in all it's glory hacked by WRS devs to work in their environment.
To be fair though...it's not really the RTOS' job to make sure you don't fill up a storage device. Embedded devs are trained (by past mistakes and annoying bugs) to pre-allocate everything needed at startup and manage their own usage of limited resources.
But these days you're a hell of a lot better off keeping the pure RT stuff in a tiny RT kernel and leave the majority of your code in userspace of the non-RT Unix/Linux environment. Which might be smart enough not to fall over when you fill up a disk.
Well, no, not really if it is certain disks.
Intel also wont jettison WRS. They may let VxWorks development die out if the revenue stream doesn't justify itself.
How does WR work on SoC designs? Yes you can park Android/VxWorks/OSX on the flash of a SoC but from the perspective of the operating system SoC vs not should make little difference.
I don't know. But I wonder if WR has a patent that Intel desires to get say Moblin on Atom as a SoC product.
I don't know I'm only speculating. I would expect Intel to push Moblin on Atom as their 'solution' for smartphones. Wouldn't you? From what I've read Moblin is pretty good.
Comments
I sold a company to Wind River (device management vendor, Rapid Logic) and have partnered with Intel on/off for 13+ years so I have a pretty well formed perspective on the deal, which I blogged about in:
Closing the Book on Embedded: Intel buys Wind River
http://bit.ly/2I9ks
Check it out if interested.
Mark
Yikes, Mark...insightful blog.
Speaking as a casual investor/Apple enthusiast, I appreciate your input as it seems like you're in a whole other category to many at AppleInsider?
Hope to hear your thoughts on more things in the future!
Mark my words! Intel will jetisin them in a couple of years once they learn how big a POS WRS and vxWorks is.
WRS has a monopoly on embedded system in their markets and like most monopolies their support is really really bad! vxWorks is a mediocre POS that is the worst kind of unmanageable "#define" infested spaghetti code. They use a proprietary GNU compiler that is ... well a GNU compiler! what should you expect from a compiler that is for consumer systems.
And as bad as all that is... WRS Linux is even worse! what a cluster frack! And to think we put that on a spacecraft! you had better duck!
Yes they are on Mars and the SW was not even smart enough to prevent too many file being saved on the flash drive so it just locked up solid! really great SW.
Apple has absolutely nothing to worry about with this merger! (except perhaps that WRS might bring mighty Intel to it's knees
Krreagan
Very insightful blog, and to be honest, hit the nail where I expected Intel was going with this.
I don't see Intel breaking into software. Its not who Intel are - they simply aren't interested in being direct-to-customer, but if Intel wants to get into the embedded market, they need a foothold of some kind, and grabbing Wind River may just give them the leverage they need.
Intel wants to get in the handheld space with x86 and Atom and to ensure people are willing to use Atom in smartphones and embedded applications Intel needs an optimized OS to run on it hence Wind River. I can't see Apple begrudging Intel this. Afterall, if x86 and Atom succeeds in the embedded space, Apple would have the option of using it in the iPhone. Atom's embedded usage is also the perfect fit for the AppleTV, especially since it already uses an x86 version of OS X, and it's also quite possible that future Apple tablets/netbooks would also use x86 and OS X rather than be ARM and iPhone OS based. If necessary, it's probably easier to emulate ARM in x86 than x86 in ARM, especially since even if Atom isn't as power efficient it is faster than ARM processors.
I don't think this is a big concern on either side. Last I checked Intel and Apple were still two separate companies. I wasn't aware that they needed to be in lock-step with everything they do.
Intel wants to get in the handheld space with x86 and Atom and to ensure people are willing to use Atom in smartphones and embedded applications Intel needs an optimized OS to run on it hence Wind River. I can't see Apple begrudging Intel this. Afterall, if x86 and Atom succeeds in the embedded space, Apple would have the option of using it in the iPhone. Atom's embedded usage is also the perfect fit for the AppleTV, especially since it already uses an x86 version of OS X, and it's also quite possible that future Apple tablets/netbooks would also use x86 and OS X rather than be ARM and iPhone OS based. If necessary, it's probably easier to emulate ARM in x86 than x86 in ARM, especially since even if Atom isn't as power efficient it is faster than ARM processors.
vxWorks is a poor choice for an embedded handheld device
fortunately Intel has enough cash to chuck $.8billion dollars out the window without too much impact on their bottom line!
Krreagan
When spending 0.8 Billion dollars, people tend to make rational, long-term decisions.
Tell that to Daimler (Chrysler) , Tell that to Time-Life (AOL)... They spent much more then intel and look at what those investments did to the parent companies!
Krreagan
vxWorks is a poor choice for an embedded handheld device
Krreagan
Maybe that's not their desire.
Intel have already developed Moblin which by reports I've seen isn't bad. Perhaps WR is being bought to help get Moblin on embedded devices, ie Atom SoC designs.
Even more likely is WR has some IP that Intel needs to get SoC designs on Atom.
[i]How long can OS X hold out after ARM falls? hmmm...
I don't think you'll find that ARM Limited and its products will be too bothered by this. There are an awful lot of ARM processor cores in printers, phones, home routers/wireless access points, and even many external storage enclosure "bridge" chips. ARM has a large customer base in these markets because their products do so well at consuming little power while offering fairly rich functionality.
In response to the main article:
As far as Wind River goes, I didn't know that they had much of a presence in the mobile device market. I've seen the most of their software being used in devices such as DSL modems and home/business routers/wireless access points. (I also have a Xerox Phaser printer that runs VxWorks as its embedded operating system.) What press I've read about them suggests that providing the "intelligence" for devices that make up communications backbones and endpoints is their primary business.
If Intel ends up buying them, I think it might be to gain more introspective into how they should build a low power processor and an operating system to go with it. Atom is a good start, and I've been happy with the ones I've used but it doesn't directly compare to the ARM products when it comes to power consumption.
I am not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I am wrong, but is this sentence grammatically correct? I am not sure what it means. What did Intel's VP say? Thanks in advance for explaining.
No, it’s not.
Last I've heard, Apple has a version of OS X running on Intel architecture, seems like they should be able to make the jump if they needed to.
Really? That means we won't have to rely on PowerPC anymore?
Sorry, I assume you meant of OS X touch/mobile.
No it isn't. Its a very shrewd move on their part, IMO.
They know they need a lightweight efficient SoC design to compete in mobile devices in the future. Instead of relying on others, such as MS, to develop the software they're taking matters into their own hands.
You do know the Wind River is the undisputed leader in developing SW for embedded systems, right? They didn't buy a bozo operation.
Mmm....undisputed leader? Mkay. VxWorks is the defacto RTOS, is lightweight and solid but meh. Wind River may not be "bozo" but I dunno that I'd have spent that kind of money on them.
When ARM is going to release a 1Ghz multi-core Cortex A9 the need for VxWorks is starting to seriously decline.
Embedded Linux is fast enough and Wind River doesn't have THAT much advantage there over LynuxWorks and MontaVista in that arena. Wind River's foray into embedded linux and a Android dev stack is an indicator where the winds are blowing and the end of VxWorks dominance in the embedded world except for those with tight hard real time requirements (which are fewer than you think).
As a former embedded software dev on VxWorks, pSOS and VMExec I'm happy to be "former". Give me Android any day of the week over VxWorks. On the plus side, Wind River is a player in the open handset arena. On the down side, the whole point of that tool chain is that it isn't a single-source proprietary product like VxWorks.
Maybe that's not their desire.
Intel have already developed Moblin which by reports I've seen isn't bad. Perhaps WR is being bought to help get Moblin on embedded devices, ie Atom SoC designs.
Even more likely is WR has some IP that Intel needs to get SoC designs on Atom.
How does WR work on SoC designs? Yes you can park Android/VxWorks/OSX on the flash of a SoC but from the perspective of the operating system SoC vs not should make little difference.
I work with vxWorks and Wind River every day and this marriage is akin to Daimler buying Chrysler.
Mark my words! Intel will jetisin them in a couple of years once they learn how big a POS WRS and vxWorks is.
WRS has a monopoly on embedded system in their markets and like most monopolies their support is really really bad! vxWorks is a mediocre POS that is the worst kind of unmanageable "#define" infested spaghetti code. They use a proprietary GNU compiler that is ... well a GNU compiler! what should you expect from a compiler that is for consumer systems.
And as bad as all that is... WRS Linux is even worse! what a cluster frack! And to think we put that on a spacecraft! you had better duck!
Yes they are on Mars and the SW was not even smart enough to prevent too many file being saved on the flash drive so it just locked up solid! really great SW.
Apple has absolutely nothing to worry about with this merger! (except perhaps that WRS might bring mighty Intel to it's knees
Krreagan
Yah, agreed. The only good thing you can say about WRS is they sucked less than their now mostly defunct competitors. Some purchased (and killed) by WRS (like pSOS) and some that died out on their own (Motorolla which killed VMEexec eventually). I guess VRTX is still around as is LynuxWorks.
Debugging sucked on VxWorks because you ended up stuck with gdb in all it's glory hacked by WRS devs to work in their environment.
To be fair though...it's not really the RTOS' job to make sure you don't fill up a storage device. Embedded devs are trained (by past mistakes and annoying bugs) to pre-allocate everything needed at startup and manage their own usage of limited resources.
But these days you're a hell of a lot better off keeping the pure RT stuff in a tiny RT kernel and leave the majority of your code in userspace of the non-RT Unix/Linux environment. Which might be smart enough not to fall over when you fill up a disk.
Well, no, not really if it is certain disks.
Intel also wont jettison WRS. They may let VxWorks development die out if the revenue stream doesn't justify itself.
How does WR work on SoC designs? Yes you can park Android/VxWorks/OSX on the flash of a SoC but from the perspective of the operating system SoC vs not should make little difference.
I don't know. But I wonder if WR has a patent that Intel desires to get say Moblin on Atom as a SoC product.
I don't know I'm only speculating. I would expect Intel to push Moblin on Atom as their 'solution' for smartphones. Wouldn't you? From what I've read Moblin is pretty good.