Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
This result was not demanded by government, this was microsoft "getting out ahead" of the regulators. Clearly a calculated move, but not something that the Eu asked for I don't think.
If you don't have a browser, how are most regular folk supposed to get another browser?
Quote:
Originally Posted by photobiker
It's indeed the question I saw yesterday on several European web sites: "How can I download Firefox if I don't have IE?"
Gopher? Telnet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr
Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????
This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.
Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.
Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.
MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.
Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.
For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.
99.9% of users could not care less what browser they use.
Funny then that much less than 99.99% of all users do use the browser that shipped with their OS. Put your figure closer to 80 or 90% and you could be right.
I'm really surprised how the governments, including the US and EU, have overestimated Microsoft's power and influence on the market and technology. Microsoft is a dead horse when it comes to innovation and its monopoly influence is very limited even on the desktop market. Was Microsoft able to stop iTunes even though most computers come with Windows Media Player by default and without iTunes installed? No. Was Microsoft able to stop Firefox from eating its market share even if 99% of the computers only come with IE? No. Was Microsoft able to stop people from using Google even if the default searcher is MSN/Windows Live on IE? No. So... why spend so much of our social resources on beating a dead horse?
Government should only put their hands on Microsoft when Microsoft successfully crushes any competition. For now, Microsoft is a lame duck and there is no need to bother it.
This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.
Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.
Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.
MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.
Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.
For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.
That said, in the meantime some OEMs just might use an alternative browser to IE when they ship and that in turn may make companies with web sites that only work with IE start to think again. Anything that helps to remove the non compliant web mess M$ created is good. I can but hope.
IE can die for all I care. It should have died years ago. It seems a complete anomaly among the likes of current Gecko and Webkit browsers. It's a complete failure, and the way it is tightly integration into the OS has proved a security nightmare.
IE can die for all I care. It should have died years ago. It seems a complete anomaly among the likes of current Gecko and Webkit browsers. It's a complete failure, and the way it is tightly integration into the OS has proved a security nightmare.
With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.
Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?
All that will happen is that OEMs will just install the IE disc / image and everything will be identical to previous versions. Most users will not know any different, and those that do will use IE to download Firefox / Safari / Chrome. This is a win for Microsoft and a snub for the EU.
If you really want to hurt IE's market share, popular sites need to stop supporting it.
I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????
(of which the web is just one tiny small part)
Hence ?most regular folk?.
See most regular folk don't know about Gopher, Telnet, ssh etc.
For most regular folk the web is the internet (no doubt not helped by Microsoft's dreadfully named Internet Explorer, but whatever, that's a separate issue)
With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.
Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?
No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.
It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.
No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.
It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.
To add to that, IE’s imminent demise is great exaggerated. While I’m certain it won’t be long before FF overtakes IE’s marketshare, further forcing MS to make IE more standards compliant, there is no way at this point MS will stop making it or that it will go completely unused. For one, ActiveX is still popular and many businesses and government agencies still rely on IE-only tech for their websites. This will change, but while this changes IE will change, too, making the need to remove it less of an issue. But none of that matters as only worthy goal is get more standard compliant browsers, not to eradicate a product simply because we don’t like it.
PS: I just hope Mozilla gets Fennec (mobile Firefox) up and running soon. They are losing the mobile browser war by not even being in it. With phones getting ‘smarter’ and media phones being the fastest growing tech segment WebKit-based browsers have a strong chance of overtaking Gecko-based browsers on a per-unit install if Mozilla doesn’t get their shit together soon.
I think stupid scenarios like this are only going to get more prevelant, and Apple will be targetted before long. We might see Apple forced to strip OSX right back... no iTunes, no Safari, no Mail etc etc.
It's not mere inclusion with an OS install that is the issue here. It is integration with the OS.
Don't want Safari? Install your browser of choice, grab the Safari icon, drag it to the trash, empty trash. It's gone forever. No other apps are affected.
Comments
Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
This result was not demanded by government, this was microsoft "getting out ahead" of the regulators. Clearly a calculated move, but not something that the Eu asked for I don't think.
If you don't have a browser, how are most regular folk supposed to get another browser?
It's indeed the question I saw yesterday on several European web sites: "How can I download Firefox if I don't have IE?"
Gopher? Telnet?
Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????
(of which the web is just one tiny small part)
Maybe this guy is William Faulkner come back from the dead.
Or perhaps William Faulkner posting while still dead.
With Chrome, I am concerned about privacy issues. Data mining, anyone?
It would have been better to read an article that compares IE8 to Safari.............
I don't mind Google mining my data, I already trust them with my email.
Plus it is all pr0n, which they have plenty of
This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.
Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.
Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.
MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.
Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.
For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.
99.9% of users could not care less what browser they use.
Funny then that much less than 99.99% of all users do use the browser that shipped with their OS. Put your figure closer to 80 or 90% and you could be right.
Government should only put their hands on Microsoft when Microsoft successfully crushes any competition. For now, Microsoft is a lame duck and there is no need to bother it.
Come on folks - wake up!
This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.
Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.
Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.
MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.
Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.
For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.
That said, in the meantime some OEMs just might use an alternative browser to IE when they ship and that in turn may make companies with web sites that only work with IE start to think again. Anything that helps to remove the non compliant web mess M$ created is good. I can but hope.
IE can die for all I care. It should have died years ago. It seems a complete anomaly among the likes of current Gecko and Webkit browsers. It's a complete failure, and the way it is tightly integration into the OS has proved a security nightmare.
With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.
Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?
Why should this be on AI? No one here probably really cares what MS does with its browser.
So, you always stick your head in the sand?
If you really want to hurt IE's market share, popular sites need to stop supporting it.
I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????
(of which the web is just one tiny small part)
Hence ?most regular folk?.
See most regular folk don't know about Gopher, Telnet, ssh etc.
For most regular folk the web is the internet (no doubt not helped by Microsoft's dreadfully named Internet Explorer, but whatever, that's a separate issue)
With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.
Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?
No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.
It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.
No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.
It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.
To add to that, IE’s imminent demise is great exaggerated. While I’m certain it won’t be long before FF overtakes IE’s marketshare, further forcing MS to make IE more standards compliant, there is no way at this point MS will stop making it or that it will go completely unused. For one, ActiveX is still popular and many businesses and government agencies still rely on IE-only tech for their websites. This will change, but while this changes IE will change, too, making the need to remove it less of an issue. But none of that matters as only worthy goal is get more standard compliant browsers, not to eradicate a product simply because we don’t like it.
PS: I just hope Mozilla gets Fennec (mobile Firefox) up and running soon. They are losing the mobile browser war by not even being in it. With phones getting ‘smarter’ and media phones being the fastest growing tech segment WebKit-based browsers have a strong chance of overtaking Gecko-based browsers on a per-unit install if Mozilla doesn’t get their shit together soon.
I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????
(of which the web is just one tiny small part)
What is the other part ???
BUT now its a speed demon. wow .
I think stupid scenarios like this are only going to get more prevelant, and Apple will be targetted before long. We might see Apple forced to strip OSX right back... no iTunes, no Safari, no Mail etc etc.
It's not mere inclusion with an OS install that is the issue here. It is integration with the OS.
Don't want Safari? Install your browser of choice, grab the Safari icon, drag it to the trash, empty trash. It's gone forever. No other apps are affected.
Don't want IE on a Windows install? GOOD LUCK!