Apple accuses Psystar of hiding behind bankruptcy

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Not quite content to just let Psystar sit in bankruptcy, Apple has filed a motion to have its case against Psystar continue and claims the unauthorized Mac clone maker is using its impoverished state as a shield against having to account for its supposedly illegal activity.



The filing, submitted this week in a Florida Southern District Bankruptcy Court, directly asserts that Psystar's bankruptcy was conveniently timed to "insulate" the small PC assembler with a stay of proceedings before it would have to explain its inner workings in a deposition and in the midst of a discovery phase where it had reportedly been asked to produce phantom evidence about its finances. Allowing the stay would let Psystar continue to sell its clones uninterrupted regardless of whether or not the act is illegal, Apple says.



The Cupertino, California firm goes so far as to draw parallels between Psystar and the fate of infamous software house SCO Group. Known for using lawsuits against Linux-dependent companies over UNIX rights disputes as part of its business model in later years, it's linked to Psystar through its approach to bankruptcy: when it lost its lawsuit against Novell and was ordered to pay money on UNIX licensing, SCO purportedly used bankruptcy and the resulting stay as a defensive measure to fend off the requests for money. Novell eventually had the stay lifted -- a precedent which Apple is keen to take advantage of in its own case.



Moreover, Apple argues that allowing its lawsuit to proceed would be a simple practical matter. Since Psystar's business is built around selling Mac clones, it can't exit bankruptcy properly only to risk being found to have violated a valid Mac OS X license agreement; it would just shut down again. Sorting out the legality of the clone producer's current business would mean it could try reorganization under an "alternative business model" that would keep it in the clear if and when bankruptcy ends.



Psystar hasn't publicly responded to the motion but, in the meantime, can't entirely escape Apple's demands in court. It now lists Apple as a creditor that it owes $75,000 for "Litigation Pending." But whether this is to cover an unspecified legal cost, purchases, or something else entirely is just as much of an unknown as whether Psystar will have shelter under its insolvency for much longer.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 81
    I agree.
  • Reply 2 of 81
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,544member
    Sounds like Apple is really wants to tighten the noose. Regardless what Psystar fanboys think or whine about, I hope that noose tightens up, skin turns blue and a double-knot made out of it. I really want to know what/who is backing Psystar.



    Nothing would make me feel better than watch what is basically a thief crash and burn. I hope this doesn't turn into a years-long SCO fiasco.
  • Reply 3 of 81
    talon8472talon8472 Posts: 149member
    I love it. End this debate by a direct example of the law once and for all. Hopefully this will prevent abuse / misuse of Apple's IP, especially in business settings. Go Apple!
  • Reply 4 of 81
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    It's a good point - if you break the law, you can't get out of it just by saying you're bankrupt. You still must answer for your deed.
  • Reply 5 of 81
    floccusfloccus Posts: 138member
    I wonder if there's an implied danger to Apple if Psystar was allowed to exit bankruptcy doing the same thing they're currently being sued for. It would mean that a judge had already implicitly said that what they were doing was legal enough that they can keep doing it after reorganizing. Of course, one would think that any bankruptcy judge would examine Psystar's planned post-bankruptcy business model and see that if they plan to keep selling computers with questionable legality that its in the best interest of both parties to settle the matter now by allowing the suit to proceed.
  • Reply 6 of 81
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    Psystar lists "1 year warranry and support" on their website for the Mac clone. Besides being misspelled in the graphic, wondering how they can promise this.
  • Reply 7 of 81
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    I know I'll sound like the devils advocate here...



    ...but it's really all Apple's fault.



    If you don't want your OS pirated, you have to tie it to hardware somehow (and not make it a pain for users).



    They know this, but are trying to play 'whack a mole' and are losing fast, the clones are mushrooming all around the world at a even faster pace.



    Unless this is all part of a plan, a plan to kill their own hardware sales that is.
  • Reply 8 of 81
    daseindasein Posts: 139member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post




    They know this, but are trying to play 'whack a mole' and are losing fast, the clones are mushrooming all around the world at a even faster pace.



    Unless this is all part of a plan, a plan to kill their own hardware sales that is.



    I think they want to know who's bankrolling these enterprises. The money involved in this incident is chump change.
  • Reply 9 of 81
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    I know I'll sound like the devils advocate here...



    ...but it's really all Apple's fault.



    If you don't want your OS pirated, you have to tie it to hardware somehow (and not make it a pain for users).



    They know this, but are trying to play 'whack a mole' and are losing fast, the clones are mushrooming all around the world at a even faster pace.



    Unless this is all part of a plan, a plan to kill their own hardware sales that is.



    Blame Apple for the misdeeds of another entity? Psystar should be made an example just so that a precedent can be made. Steal another company's IP and you will be made to pay for your crime.



    That alone won't prevent outfits to shout out their crusade against companies like Apple and "stick it to the man". Even if Apple wins here in the U.S., it still won't prevent others in other countries from claiming they are immune from whatever happens in the U.S.



    So perhaps with the introduction of Snow Leopard, Apple will introduce some kind of feature that will lock out invalid installs. How they will do it is unknown. If they are up to something, of course they will not advertise it until someone tries to do an illegal install.



    As usual, it always comes down to a handful of idiots that ruin it for the rest of the group. Psystar is looking to make a quick buck off of another company's work and screw what it may do to the rest of the community. Absolutely selfish bastards.
  • Reply 10 of 81
    talon8472talon8472 Posts: 149member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Blame Apple for the misdeeds of another entity? Psystar should be made an example just so that a precedent can be made. Steal another company's IP and you will be made to pay for your crime.



    That alone won't prevent outfits to shout out their crusade against companies like Apple and "stick it to the man". Even if Apple wins here in the U.S., it still won't prevent others in other countries from claiming they are immune from whatever happens in the U.S.



    So perhaps with the introduction of Snow Leopard, Apple will introduce some kind of feature that will lock out invalid installs. How they will do it is unknown. If they are up to something, of course they will not advertise it until someone tries to do an illegal install.



    As usual, it always comes down to a handful of idiots that ruin it for the rest of the group. Psystar is looking to make a quick buck off of another company's work and screw what it may do to the rest of the community. Absolutely selfish bastards.



    Well, it seems to be getting harder and harder. Tiger is more widely cracked and supported than Leopard was on PC. I'm assuming SL will be even harder to maintain than Leopard is. Not saying its impossible or can't be done, its just takes a more advanced user.
  • Reply 11 of 81
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,005member
    Go for broke, Apple! Place a lien on Psystar's property, hold the president personally liable for various illegal activities and sic the government on 'em for violating the DMCA. Go for the jugular!
  • Reply 12 of 81
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,241member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    I know I'll sound like the devils advocate here...



    ...but it's really all Apple's fault.



    If you don't want your OS pirated, you have to tie it to hardware somehow (and not make it a pain for users).



    They know this, but are trying to play 'whack a mole' and are losing fast, the clones are mushrooming all around the world at a even faster pace.



    Unless this is all part of a plan, a plan to kill their own hardware sales that is.



    You're not playing devil's advocate. You're just being a contrarian. You haven't shown how you're playing the position of devil's advocate to this motion.
  • Reply 13 of 81
    Completely agree with Apple pursuing this. And I'm very interested in finding out who is backing Psystar...would love to see them burn for wrongful deeds..
  • Reply 14 of 81
    maximaramaximara Posts: 269member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    It's a good point - if you break the law, you can't get out of it just by saying you're bankrupt. You still must answer for your deed.



    I was hoping that Apple would be able to claim that Psystar was trying to use the bankruptcy as a unjust shield. That Psystar claimed Apple as a creditor for "Litigation Pending" for $75,000 when the they haven't even got to the point of Apple winning much less how much they owe Apple is ridiculous. Not specifying just what that $75,000 if for is even more insane.



    The longer this goes on the more ludicrous it gets, Remember since copyright law was involve Apple could get treble damages so if Psystar think it only owes $75,000 the possibly of Apple actually getting a $225,000 award rears its head.



    Furthermore I would ask how can a company seeking bankruptcy put a number with no explanation as to where it comes from much less what exactly it is as one of its liabilities and expect the bankruptcy court accept it. Without proof this number might as well come off a Ouija board or out of a Tarot deck and when it comes to its finances Psystar has not shown eagerness to produce those records.
  • Reply 15 of 81
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Psystar should be made an example just so that a precedent can be made. Steal another company's IP and you will be made to pay for your crime.



    That's all well and good, except for the fact of other companies setting up shop in countries with little IP respecting laws. RussiaMac anyone? How about a PearPC?



    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-304057.html



    Or just overwhelming Apple with more pop-up clones until their legal dept. goes bust.



    The RIAA already went this route and that's why we have iTunes.



    Apple needs to tie OS X to hardware and that will be that.
  • Reply 16 of 81
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    That's all well and good, except for the fact of other companies setting up shop in countries with little IP respecting laws. RussiaMac anyone? How about a PearPC?



    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-304057.html



    Or just overwhelming Apple with more pop-up clones until their legal dept. goes bust.



    The RIAA already went this route and that's why we have iTunes.



    Apple needs to tie OS X to hardware and that will be that.



    I did mention in my previous post about other countries ignoring IP laws. I'm curious if Apple does tie Snow Leopard to hardware what people will come out of the woodwork and scream "monopolistic behavior".
  • Reply 17 of 81
    macnycmacnyc Posts: 342member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    That's all well and good, except for the fact of other companies setting up shop in countries with little IP respecting laws. RussiaMac anyone? How about a PearPC?



    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-304057.html



    Or just overwhelming Apple with more pop-up clones until their legal dept. goes bust.



    The RIAA already went this route and that's why we have iTunes.



    Apple needs to tie OS X to hardware and that will be that.



    Your argument is nonsense... Microsoft is still in business despite the millions of illegal copies of windows.
  • Reply 18 of 81
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    Apple has the wherewithal to pursue every last one of these fly-by-night clone makers for years.



    And by the looks of it, it should be easy, since they don't seem to be making any money anyway. Here today, gone tomorrow.
  • Reply 19 of 81
    Apple was always trying to protect the MacOS from those illegal actions. Since Apple II.

    You can find more information using Google. So, they have just cracked this defense.



    But there are some rumors that Apple,

    tired with Psystar and other clone makers and just those guys who have installed Hackintosh,

    is developing the excellent protection right now for Snow Leopard.

    Also, if you'll investigate some sites like RussianMac's,

    there's an interesting warning: "there's no guarantee that you'll be able to install the newer versions of MacOS"



    I hope that those clone makers will just stay with v10.5,

    and not touch the newer versions,

    and after several years it would be very hard to sell the "not-too-up-to-date" system" .
  • Reply 20 of 81
    I don't know if this is me but I read from this that if you buy a Pisstar clone that they are not paying Apple for the copy of OSX they purportedly ship with your computer, and which means your basically complicit in some sort of theft...



    Anyway, anyone with half a brain or any kind of integrity implicitly knows pisstar is a bunch of crooks. Basically, Birds of a feather flock together....pisstar clone on your desktop ? - probably full of stolen s/w as well...
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