The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.
I agree with you. It will be a major test of the quality of the new management/leadership team, and its ability to smoothly implement a major technology transition post-Jobs.
Apple's stock price will start to reflect that uncertainty at some point in the Fall unless these are clearly announced and understood.
Thanks for the links, and especially the Canadian links, including the French Canada links, but does this means that the Hardware Up-To-Date program is limited to North America?
No links for European countries, Asia or the Middle East?
Cloning the Leopard boot drive is not necessary before upgrading to Snow Leopard, but I highly recommended it to prevent anything un-forseen from crippling your ability to boot from your computer and seeking help online.
If the install goes bad, some programs don't work and/or need a update. You can simply option boot off the clone and get back to work until the problems get fixed.
Cloning is very effective at preventing all sorts of potential problems that were not forseen with the mirads of different configurations people have as their boot drives, especially with hardware drivers which will require a update and are not present on newer OS X install disks.
MacPro users should know they may have to wait for driver updates for their non-factory installed hardware for Snow Leopard before updating, or their machines may not boot unless returned to the original hardware specs that came with the machine.
Cloning allows one to "go back" to a previous OS install with functioning drivers, like from Snow Leopard back to Leopard for instance.
Many people make a living fixing people's computers and cloning is a threat to them because it's so effective. With this OS X update, they drool at the prospect of so many machines being hosed, even getting people to replace their hard drives needlessly.
I wouldn't say this without being a victim of these people once before. To a tune of $600 for a $100 hard drive. Last time I drop something off to a "Authorized Seller" and ask them to fix the OS, that's for sure. So I learned to clone and have been happy ever since.
So if your ready to learn about cloning, by all means do so.
I make it a practice to clone before any OS update, Apple has been known to issue buggy updates and a computer and or software being non-functional until it can be fixed by someone else may not be a option for some.
I put my own 500 g drive inside my black MB after my machine warned me of my harddrive dying.
My MB is on and used 6 to 12 hrs a day. I made a 3 way partion and the changed my mind and went a 2 partition configuration. Some how after all this I lost a bunch of G's some where.
After I figure this out I will clone on the same MB nd then clone on a 250g lacie . I do not trust or like time machine. Mayne I can use the OWC disc.
Very rarely. Extremely rarely in fact, if you think at all in terms of the millions of people doing them. I've been doing upgrades literally for years, going all the way back to 10.1 -- with never one issue. Not one.
Erase and Installs are not only a waste of time, I am convinced, they are also dangerous, especially to novice users. The Erase and Install fans will never tell you about the pitfalls, of which there are many.
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Now if you're a complete newbie I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think those kinds of people worry about the issues of upgrading.
I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .
by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.
So Apple is walking away from NON-INTEL Mac's . I feel kinda wistful about this ..So long G3-G4.
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Erase and instal put heavy stress on your disc. And you are way over doing it.
I agree with you. It will be a major test of the quality of the new management/leadership team, and its ability to smoothly implement a major technology transition post-Jobs.
Apple's stock price will start to reflect that uncertainty at some point in the Fall unless these are clearly announced and understood.
Yeah I agree. Even if Apple set a price of say $49 or $59 for everyone it would be a lot more clearer for everyone. I don't think too many people would complain about paying that much other than the regulars who always whine and complain about everything.
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Now if you're a complete newbie I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think those kinds of people worry about the issues of upgrading.
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless they were replacing their hard drive. There are no issues to upgrading. None. I have been doing it for years. If by some stroke of bad luck you have a system-related problem, an Archive & Install will take care of it. The number of times I've felt the need to do this over many Macs and many upgrades and many years: exactly one. And please don't tell me I'm lucky. Luck has nothing to with it.
Having to reinstall your applications is the first major pitfall. What a needless headache. Installed any fonts? They're gone too. Network settings, network locations, recorded passwords, etc. -- all gone. Start over! What a waste of time.
Nobody has ever explained to me why this disruption and time waste is worthwhile, and it's not for lack of asking.
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless they were replacing their hard drive. There are no issues to upgrading. None. I have been doing it for years. If by some stroke of bad luck you have a system-related problem, an Archive & Install will take care of it. The number of times I've felt the need to do this over many Macs and many upgrades and many years: exactly one. And please don't tell me I'm lucky. Luck has nothing to with it.
Having to reinstall your applications is the first major pitfall. What a needless headache. Installed any fonts? They're gone too. Network settings, network locations, recorded passwords, etc. -- all gone. Start over! What a waste of time.
Nobody has ever explained to me why this disruption and time waste is worthwhile, and it's not for lack of asking.
Erase and install isn't so bad if you have everything laid out in advance, have your passwords ready, know the apps will work under the new OS, and know what your doing.
One should have all their passwords, disks, activation codes etc stored and cataloged off the computer anyway, just in case of fire, theft etc.
The benefits of erase and install is you get to clean out all the crap and get a nice optimized boot drive which boots and runs faster. Archive and Install can't optimize, because there is already data on the drive, so there will be a long lasting performance loss.
If there is a reference to "animalpron.com" buried somewhere on your boot drive, it's gone for good.
I usually clone a boot drive first and run it to make sure it's reliable before erasing my original.
1: Install new OS, setup, network, software update
2: Install apps etc., from original sources, codes activation, update
3: Cherry pick files, iTunes from backup
It's really not that hard, once you do it you realize if you just make a list and breakup the work it's not that scary.
If you clone, then you always have that to fall back onto and boot from if there is something you missed. (needing updated drivers for non-factory video cards comes to mind)
Erase and instal put heavy stress on your disc. And you are way over doing it.
good luck anyway
9
No 'erase and install' does not place any heavy stress on your hard drive.
Now erase with 35x overwrite the whole drive will place a stress on your drive, if you do it everyday for a year. Then expect your drive to have a shortened lifespan.
Erase and install isn't so bad if you have everything laid out in advance, have your passwords ready, know the apps will work under the new OS, and know what your doing.
Better yet, don't bother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash
Psychologically, I agree. Practically, there's nothing really special about it.
Exactly. Some people just seem to like how it feels. Personally, I think they should get out more often.
Comments
The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.
I agree with you. It will be a major test of the quality of the new management/leadership team, and its ability to smoothly implement a major technology transition post-Jobs.
Apple's stock price will start to reflect that uncertainty at some point in the Fall unless these are clearly announced and understood.
Thanks for the links, and especially the Canadian links, including the French Canada links, but does this means that the Hardware Up-To-Date program is limited to North America?
No links for European countries, Asia or the Middle East?
The UK site has been updated
http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/uptodate/
Cloning the Leopard boot drive is not necessary before upgrading to Snow Leopard, but I highly recommended it to prevent anything un-forseen from crippling your ability to boot from your computer and seeking help online.
If the install goes bad, some programs don't work and/or need a update. You can simply option boot off the clone and get back to work until the problems get fixed.
Cloning is very effective at preventing all sorts of potential problems that were not forseen with the mirads of different configurations people have as their boot drives, especially with hardware drivers which will require a update and are not present on newer OS X install disks.
MacPro users should know they may have to wait for driver updates for their non-factory installed hardware for Snow Leopard before updating, or their machines may not boot unless returned to the original hardware specs that came with the machine.
Cloning allows one to "go back" to a previous OS install with functioning drivers, like from Snow Leopard back to Leopard for instance.
Many people make a living fixing people's computers and cloning is a threat to them because it's so effective. With this OS X update, they drool at the prospect of so many machines being hosed, even getting people to replace their hard drives needlessly.
I wouldn't say this without being a victim of these people once before. To a tune of $600 for a $100 hard drive. Last time I drop something off to a "Authorized Seller" and ask them to fix the OS, that's for sure. So I learned to clone and have been happy ever since.
So if your ready to learn about cloning, by all means do so.
I make it a practice to clone before any OS update, Apple has been known to issue buggy updates and a computer and or software being non-functional until it can be fixed by someone else may not be a option for some.
I put my own 500 g drive inside my black MB after my machine warned me of my harddrive dying.
My MB is on and used 6 to 12 hrs a day. I made a 3 way partion and the changed my mind and went a 2 partition configuration. Some how after all this I lost a bunch of G's some where.
After I figure this out I will clone on the same MB nd then clone on a 250g lacie . I do not trust or like time machine. Mayne I can use the OWC disc.
Anyway thanks for your help.
Peace
9
Very rarely. Extremely rarely in fact, if you think at all in terms of the millions of people doing them. I've been doing upgrades literally for years, going all the way back to 10.1 -- with never one issue. Not one.
Erase and Installs are not only a waste of time, I am convinced, they are also dangerous, especially to novice users. The Erase and Install fans will never tell you about the pitfalls, of which there are many.
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Now if you're a complete newbie I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think those kinds of people worry about the issues of upgrading.
I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .
by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.
So Apple is walking away from NON-INTEL Mac's . I feel kinda wistful about this ..So long G3-G4.
All those original imac's are now obsolete.
9
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Erase and instal put heavy stress on your disc. And you are way over doing it.
good luck anyway
9
I agree with you. It will be a major test of the quality of the new management/leadership team, and its ability to smoothly implement a major technology transition post-Jobs.
Apple's stock price will start to reflect that uncertainty at some point in the Fall unless these are clearly announced and understood.
Yeah I agree. Even if Apple set a price of say $49 or $59 for everyone it would be a lot more clearer for everyone. I don't think too many people would complain about paying that much other than the regulars who always whine and complain about everything.
I've never once had any issues doing an erase and install. Especially now that I have Time Machine. Its really a non-issue. Even when I didn't have Time Machine all I would do is drag my home folder to my external HD and then drag back what I needed from it when restoring information.
The only pitfall I see is you have to reinstall your apps. I don't necessarily see this as a pitfall even. Yes, it takes a little time to get them back on and updated, but sometimes its well worth it.
Now if you're a complete newbie I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think those kinds of people worry about the issues of upgrading.
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless they were replacing their hard drive. There are no issues to upgrading. None. I have been doing it for years. If by some stroke of bad luck you have a system-related problem, an Archive & Install will take care of it. The number of times I've felt the need to do this over many Macs and many upgrades and many years: exactly one. And please don't tell me I'm lucky. Luck has nothing to with it.
Having to reinstall your applications is the first major pitfall. What a needless headache. Installed any fonts? They're gone too. Network settings, network locations, recorded passwords, etc. -- all gone. Start over! What a waste of time.
Nobody has ever explained to me why this disruption and time waste is worthwhile, and it's not for lack of asking.
Erase and instal put heavy stress on your disc. And you are way over doing it.
good luck anyway
9
Thats why you make backup images....
I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless they were replacing their hard drive. There are no issues to upgrading. None. I have been doing it for years. If by some stroke of bad luck you have a system-related problem, an Archive & Install will take care of it. The number of times I've felt the need to do this over many Macs and many upgrades and many years: exactly one. And please don't tell me I'm lucky. Luck has nothing to with it.
Having to reinstall your applications is the first major pitfall. What a needless headache. Installed any fonts? They're gone too. Network settings, network locations, recorded passwords, etc. -- all gone. Start over! What a waste of time.
Nobody has ever explained to me why this disruption and time waste is worthwhile, and it's not for lack of asking.
Erase and install isn't so bad if you have everything laid out in advance, have your passwords ready, know the apps will work under the new OS, and know what your doing.
One should have all their passwords, disks, activation codes etc stored and cataloged off the computer anyway, just in case of fire, theft etc.
The benefits of erase and install is you get to clean out all the crap and get a nice optimized boot drive which boots and runs faster. Archive and Install can't optimize, because there is already data on the drive, so there will be a long lasting performance loss.
If there is a reference to "animalpron.com" buried somewhere on your boot drive, it's gone for good.
I usually clone a boot drive first and run it to make sure it's reliable before erasing my original.
1: Install new OS, setup, network, software update
2: Install apps etc., from original sources, codes activation, update
3: Cherry pick files, iTunes from backup
It's really not that hard, once you do it you realize if you just make a list and breakup the work it's not that scary.
If you clone, then you always have that to fall back onto and boot from if there is something you missed. (needing updated drivers for non-factory video cards comes to mind)
Nothing like a nice new clean OS install.
Erase and instal put heavy stress on your disc. And you are way over doing it.
good luck anyway
9
No 'erase and install' does not place any heavy stress on your hard drive.
Now erase with 35x overwrite the whole drive will place a stress on your drive, if you do it everyday for a year. Then expect your drive to have a shortened lifespan.
Nothing like a nice new clean OS install.
Psychologically, I agree. Practically, there's nothing really special about it.
Erase and install isn't so bad if you have everything laid out in advance, have your passwords ready, know the apps will work under the new OS, and know what your doing.
Better yet, don't bother.
Psychologically, I agree. Practically, there's nothing really special about it.
Exactly. Some people just seem to like how it feels. Personally, I think they should get out more often.