Don't think screen size. Think resolution. The 17" MacBook Pro has 1920 x 1200 resolution, giving a huge screen real-estate. The issue with the screen being 17" is that you need good eyesight to use such a high DPI monitor.
I've got a laptop with external keyboard, mouse and monitor. When at a desk, I use those, with the laptop's screen as a secondary monitor. When using the laptop on its own, I don't sit at a desk, so I don't suffer from any of the problems you're talking about. Use it lounging in bed or on my lap slouching on a sofa - no neck pain, no back pain, no problem.
This is the first case I've heard of anyone claiming they need or even want 1920 x 1200 resolution for e-mail and web surfing while lounging in bed or slouching on a sofa. People generally only need that resolution for graphics work or major multitasking with multiple apps open. Are you sure you really want that?
This is the first case I've heard of anyone claiming they need or even want 1920 x 1200 resolution for e-mail and web surfing while lounging in bed or slouching on a sofa. People generally only need that resolution for graphics work or major multitasking with multiple apps open. Are you sure you really want that?
I've got a laptop with external keyboard, mouse and monitor. When at a desk, I use those, with the laptop's screen as a secondary monitor. When using the laptop on its own, I don't sit at a desk, so I don't suffer from any of the problems you're talking about. Use it lounging in bed or on my lap slouching on a sofa - no neck pain, no back pain, no problem.
That's fine for occasional use. I was responding to the idea of using the laptop as the primary computing experience. If your primary computing experience is couch slouch, then you don't need anything remotely as powerful as a 17" MBP. That is a desktop class machine and should be used with the appropriate externals when possible.
That's fine for occasional use. I was responding to the idea of using the laptop as the primary computing experience. If your primary computing experience is couch slouch, then you don't need anything remotely as powerful as a 17" MBP.
I disagree. When I had a 17" at my disposal, I did plenty of coding (the 1920 x 1200 res was a real boon) for hours on end whilst lounging on my sofa. You don't have to sit at a desk to get real work done.
The 17" does seem like overkill for general consumer computing, but if that's what the guy wants, why not? 17" is an advantage if you're going to be using the machine to watch DVDs etc.
I disagree. When I had a 17" at my disposal, I did plenty of coding (the 1920 x 1200 res was a real boon) for hours on end whilst lounging on my sofa. You don't have to sit at a desk to get real work done.
The 17" does seem like overkill for general consumer computing, but if that's what the guy wants, why not? 17" is an advantage if you're going to be using the machine to watch DVDs etc.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
I was under the impression this was going to be the original poster's only Mac. Doesn't want an external monitor. My cousin bought her first PC just this year. She turns 83 in a few days. Silly woman got a Dell with a 17" screen. She has to park her nose about six inches from the screen to see it, even with her glasses. You people with good eyesight make me crazy. There is no such thing as a notebook screen I could be comfortable with. I don't believe the 17" is too big as long as you can see the text. On the other hand, it do cost too much. That would be the primary reason my cousin has her Dell. Had she purchased a Mac, it would be a hundred times easy to help her with it. Trying to help someone over the twisted pair with Windows tech stuff can get very ugly. My advice to the original poster, get the 17 inch MBP and leave it at home. Buy yourself one of the many netbooks to travel with. Windows isn't the end of the world if you don't have to use it all the time. Also, it is very easy to create a dual boot setup with Windows and Ubuntu. Linux is way cool until you have to figure out how to mess with it. Ubuntu comes with just about everything needed to hang out at the coffee house with.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
No, but that would be helpful.
I had a 17" for five years and initially got it in lieu of a desktop. I don't use it to run photoshop, but I do appreciate the real estate. I can program and run Stata and all of its windows opened up to a decent size. I can be typing a document with two pages open at once, which I really like. When developing models on larger spreadsheets, it is helpful to have the additional real estate.
But mobile computing with the 17 is to mobile computing with something like the MBA kind of like car camping is to backpacking.
It is not "too big" but it is a pain to take on planes, to carry with you throughout the day, and so forth.
I now have a desktop computer, so my next laptop will be significantly smaller.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
well, in post 15, he said "just basic computing, web, email, itunes, word". It's odd that we're managing to have a conversation about it without much involvement from him
well, in post 15, he said "just basic computing, web, email, itunes, word". It's odd that we're managing to have a conversation about it without much involvement from him
Totally missed that one. I just see these types of threads as springboards for interesting conversation. I can't imagine asking for that kind of advice on a board like this and expecting anything particularly useful.
...And I still say that the 17" is too much computer for that type of use. Frankly, the current crop of 13 inchers are overkill. In fact, I'm starting to think he should just get a Dell.
...And I still say that the 17" is too much computer for that type of use. Frankly, the current crop of 13 inchers are overkill. In fact, I'm starting to think he should just get a Dell.
Any client I've had who bought a 17" - AND travels fairly often - REGRETTED getting the 17". It really is a monster to lug around on those trips to Paris and the Fiji Islands... But perhaps that says more about the person who buys one - it was always the kind of who absolutely had to have the 'BIGGEST, BESTEST, FASTEST - I HAVE THE MONEY AND I WANT TOP-END!' In this consumptive culture we have where Bigger Is Better -- I had a hard time convincing clients that sometimes Less Is More....
I'm in the same boat. I occassionally like using my laptop in the lounge, would the 17" sit nicely in my lap?
For me, I have to decide is it worth spending $500 NZD for the bigger, anti-glare screen.
Personally, it depends on what you're going to use it for. I'm running a 13.3 inch screen, white macbook - it was difficult at first to get used to having had a laptop prior which was 14 inches and a desktop that was 20inches. Once you get used to it though, you'll find it more comfortable than the 15 or 17 inch.
Personally, it depends on what you're going to use it for. I'm running a 13.3 inch screen, white macbook - it was difficult at first to get used to having had a laptop prior which was 14 inches and a desktop that was 20inches. Once you get used to it though, you'll find it more comfortable than the 15 or 17 inch.
Graphic and website design, at the moment I'm going for the 17 inches ooooh yeah
If you have a docking station at home, the question may be irrelevant. You can use the 13 inch screen itself when you want a portable computing experience (coffee shop, sitting in front of the TV), and the docking station with a 20 inch or larger monitor when you want to do serious work that requires a more formal environment like a computer desk.
The only problem with this is that there's no external mouse that offers the equivalent experience of the multi-touch trackpad.
Anyone who owns a 17 notice eyestrain/headache from the high res screen?
Coming from a previous 17" with 1680 x 1050 resolution I definitely noticed myself straining a bit to read some text, but this was mostly on poorly formatted websites and can easily be overcome by a variety of techniques. Sometimes I use the quick zoom (control button and two finger scroll up and down). Most aspects of the Finder and browsers can also be customised for larger font and icon sizes so it's really not a big deal. Just set the zoom level you find best in Safari/Firefox. I even discovered (by accident) you can use the pinch gestures to control zooming in browsers!
I was really torn between the 13, 15 and 17" MBP models. This will be my first Apple computer. I have owned laptops/portables since the days of the original compact suitcase style computers. The 13" is definitely the most "cool" model and it is easy to transport. If I flew more, I would get the 13" model, as the 15" will be a tight squeeze in coach. However, my laptops tend to mostly only move around the house as I have a company Dell 14.1" I usually have to travel with. I almost ordered a refurbished 17" MBP 2.66Mhz from the Apple web site. However, I made a wooden model of its dimensions and realized that it would not fit in any of my laptop bags or travel cases. So, I settled on the 15" MPB. It seemed to be the best compromise.
I just ordered a 15" MBP 2.66Mhz model. While I may never need the extra Graphic's ability, (I don’t play games) I like knowing that it is there. I do occasionally do some 3D modeling. The fact that you can turn the 9600 video processor off to save battery power is a great feature. In other words it “future proofs” the laptop a little. I tend to keep laptops for a long time. My current HP is about 9 years old. I also decided that if I truly want a portable, I would watch out for a good deal on a used Macbook Air....
Anyway, that is how I made my decision… (it took nearly a month)
I'm loving the 17'' Anti-Glare. My wife has a 15'' MBP so I've had a lot of real world usage with both. Yes the 17'' is bigger but for a 17'' laptop the difference is so small you don't even realize it after the first day using the 17''. The battery life in the 17'' is unbelievable. On the low graphic setting with screen dimmed to about half I get easily 8-9 hours of light usage out of it. To my surprise Apple's new battery claims seem realistic.
It really boils down to personal preference. All the MBP models are fantastic machines with pro/cons on all three. I personally like the anti-glare high res display so much that it makes up easily for the extra size. Although I don't normally use the computer on my lap I have used it on the couch a few times and feels completely comfortable. As for eye strain reading text with the display, this again is subjective, personally have had no problems. However, if you do have problems the trackpad makes zooming text extremely easy.
Comments
Don't think screen size. Think resolution. The 17" MacBook Pro has 1920 x 1200 resolution, giving a huge screen real-estate. The issue with the screen being 17" is that you need good eyesight to use such a high DPI monitor.
I've got a laptop with external keyboard, mouse and monitor. When at a desk, I use those, with the laptop's screen as a secondary monitor. When using the laptop on its own, I don't sit at a desk, so I don't suffer from any of the problems you're talking about. Use it lounging in bed or on my lap slouching on a sofa - no neck pain, no back pain, no problem.
This is the first case I've heard of anyone claiming they need or even want 1920 x 1200 resolution for e-mail and web surfing while lounging in bed or slouching on a sofa. People generally only need that resolution for graphics work or major multitasking with multiple apps open. Are you sure you really want that?
This is the first case I've heard of anyone claiming they need or even want 1920 x 1200 resolution for e-mail and web surfing while lounging in bed or slouching on a sofa. People generally only need that resolution for graphics work or major multitasking with multiple apps open. Are you sure you really want that?
I guess you need to ask the OP, timr100
I guess you need to ask the OP, timr100
Thanks... got mixed up by that!
I've got a laptop with external keyboard, mouse and monitor. When at a desk, I use those, with the laptop's screen as a secondary monitor. When using the laptop on its own, I don't sit at a desk, so I don't suffer from any of the problems you're talking about. Use it lounging in bed or on my lap slouching on a sofa - no neck pain, no back pain, no problem.
That's fine for occasional use. I was responding to the idea of using the laptop as the primary computing experience. If your primary computing experience is couch slouch, then you don't need anything remotely as powerful as a 17" MBP. That is a desktop class machine and should be used with the appropriate externals when possible.
That's fine for occasional use. I was responding to the idea of using the laptop as the primary computing experience. If your primary computing experience is couch slouch, then you don't need anything remotely as powerful as a 17" MBP.
I disagree. When I had a 17" at my disposal, I did plenty of coding (the 1920 x 1200 res was a real boon) for hours on end whilst lounging on my sofa. You don't have to sit at a desk to get real work done.
The 17" does seem like overkill for general consumer computing, but if that's what the guy wants, why not? 17" is an advantage if you're going to be using the machine to watch DVDs etc.
I disagree. When I had a 17" at my disposal, I did plenty of coding (the 1920 x 1200 res was a real boon) for hours on end whilst lounging on my sofa. You don't have to sit at a desk to get real work done.
The 17" does seem like overkill for general consumer computing, but if that's what the guy wants, why not? 17" is an advantage if you're going to be using the machine to watch DVDs etc.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
I was under the impression this was going to be the original poster's only Mac. Doesn't want an external monitor. My cousin bought her first PC just this year. She turns 83 in a few days. Silly woman got a Dell with a 17" screen. She has to park her nose about six inches from the screen to see it, even with her glasses. You people with good eyesight make me crazy. There is no such thing as a notebook screen I could be comfortable with. I don't believe the 17" is too big as long as you can see the text. On the other hand, it do cost too much. That would be the primary reason my cousin has her Dell. Had she purchased a Mac, it would be a hundred times easy to help her with it. Trying to help someone over the twisted pair with Windows tech stuff can get very ugly. My advice to the original poster, get the 17 inch MBP and leave it at home. Buy yourself one of the many netbooks to travel with. Windows isn't the end of the world if you don't have to use it all the time. Also, it is very easy to create a dual boot setup with Windows and Ubuntu. Linux is way cool until you have to figure out how to mess with it. Ubuntu comes with just about everything needed to hang out at the coffee house with.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
No, but that would be helpful.
I had a 17" for five years and initially got it in lieu of a desktop. I don't use it to run photoshop, but I do appreciate the real estate. I can program and run Stata and all of its windows opened up to a decent size. I can be typing a document with two pages open at once, which I really like. When developing models on larger spreadsheets, it is helpful to have the additional real estate.
But mobile computing with the 17 is to mobile computing with something like the MBA kind of like car camping is to backpacking.
It is not "too big" but it is a pain to take on planes, to carry with you throughout the day, and so forth.
I now have a desktop computer, so my next laptop will be significantly smaller.
Do we have any idea what the original poster wanted to use the computer for?
well, in post 15, he said "just basic computing, web, email, itunes, word". It's odd that we're managing to have a conversation about it without much involvement from him
well, in post 15, he said "just basic computing, web, email, itunes, word". It's odd that we're managing to have a conversation about it without much involvement from him
Totally missed that one. I just see these types of threads as springboards for interesting conversation. I can't imagine asking for that kind of advice on a board like this and expecting anything particularly useful.
...And I still say that the 17" is too much computer for that type of use. Frankly, the current crop of 13 inchers are overkill. In fact, I'm starting to think he should just get a Dell.
...And I still say that the 17" is too much computer for that type of use. Frankly, the current crop of 13 inchers are overkill. In fact, I'm starting to think he should just get a Dell.
A Dell Mini 9 and hackintosh it.
A Dell Mini 9 and hackintosh it.
You will have to get your Dell Mini 9 used or refurbished. It is gone from Dell's lineup.
I'm in the same boat. I occassionally like using my laptop in the lounge, would the 17" sit nicely in my lap?
For me, I have to decide is it worth spending $500 NZD for the bigger, anti-glare screen.
Personally, it depends on what you're going to use it for. I'm running a 13.3 inch screen, white macbook - it was difficult at first to get used to having had a laptop prior which was 14 inches and a desktop that was 20inches. Once you get used to it though, you'll find it more comfortable than the 15 or 17 inch.
Personally, it depends on what you're going to use it for. I'm running a 13.3 inch screen, white macbook - it was difficult at first to get used to having had a laptop prior which was 14 inches and a desktop that was 20inches. Once you get used to it though, you'll find it more comfortable than the 15 or 17 inch.
Graphic and website design, at the moment I'm going for the 17 inches ooooh yeah
The only problem with this is that there's no external mouse that offers the equivalent experience of the multi-touch trackpad.
I say this even though I own a 15 inch MBP.
Anyone who owns a 17 notice eyestrain/headache from the high res screen?
Coming from a previous 17" with 1680 x 1050 resolution I definitely noticed myself straining a bit to read some text, but this was mostly on poorly formatted websites and can easily be overcome by a variety of techniques. Sometimes I use the quick zoom (control button and two finger scroll up and down). Most aspects of the Finder and browsers can also be customised for larger font and icon sizes so it's really not a big deal. Just set the zoom level you find best in Safari/Firefox. I even discovered (by accident) you can use the pinch gestures to control zooming in browsers!
I just ordered a 15" MBP 2.66Mhz model. While I may never need the extra Graphic's ability, (I don’t play games) I like knowing that it is there. I do occasionally do some 3D modeling. The fact that you can turn the 9600 video processor off to save battery power is a great feature. In other words it “future proofs” the laptop a little. I tend to keep laptops for a long time. My current HP is about 9 years old. I also decided that if I truly want a portable, I would watch out for a good deal on a used Macbook Air....
Anyway, that is how I made my decision… (it took nearly a month)
It really boils down to personal preference. All the MBP models are fantastic machines with pro/cons on all three. I personally like the anti-glare high res display so much that it makes up easily for the extra size. Although I don't normally use the computer on my lap I have used it on the couch a few times and feels completely comfortable. As for eye strain reading text with the display, this again is subjective, personally have had no problems. However, if you do have problems the trackpad makes zooming text extremely easy.