Desktop computer steep sales decline

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Desktop PC sales have declined 23%. The steepest sales decline in computer sales history.



Notebooks now make up 80% of consumer US computer sales.





Gizmodo
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 77
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    But if Apple doesn't hurry up and release an upgradable mid-sized tower they're doomed.
  • Reply 2 of 77
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,538moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    But if Apple doesn't hurry up and release an upgradable mid-sized tower they're doomed.



    The fact people are buying more laptops doesn't mean it's ok to have your desktop line 2-3x more expensive than PC manufacturers and still performing at half the speed.



    To say 'well more people are buying laptops anyway so it doesn't matter' diverts away from the real issue - that Apple's consumer desktops are bad value for money.



    What they should do is just scrap the iMac lineup and drop the price of their Macbook Pros a little and introduce a cheap TN 24" display to go with it.



    The 2.66GHz iMac is £949, 2GB Ram, 9400M

    The 2.26GHz MBP is £899, 2GB Ram, 9400M



    The 24" 3.06GHz iMac is £1799, 4GB Ram, GT130

    The 15" 3.06GHz MBP is £1939, 4GB Ram, 9600M GT



    The GPUs are close in terms of performance and it's not as if people are buying close to £2000 equipment to play games.



    People might say but if Apple drop the high end MBP by £130, you still need to spend £200 for a 24" TN panel. But then you're getting dual displays and you get portability as well as the ability to upgrade your HDD.



    You lose the IPS display but people who need one can buy one 3rd party (or E-IPS, S-PVA etc) or buy Apple's IPS display.



    Then the lineup becomes:



    Mini - for servers and the multitude of applications for a small desktop.

    13" MBP for most users with additional 24" TN display as BTO.

    15" MBP for higher end with additional display.

    Mac Pro for the highest end raw power.



    I think one thing holding back the switch will be hard drive capacity. But once we hit 1TB 2.5" drives next year, no problem.
  • Reply 3 of 77
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    The fact people are buying more laptops doesn't mean it's ok to have your desktop line 2-3x more expensive than PC manufacturers and still performing at half the speed.



    Yes it does when you're making 30% margins and selling 300-700K desktops per quarter when the #5 world wide maker Toshiba sells zero.



    Quote:

    To say 'well more people are buying laptops anyway so it doesn't matter' diverts away from the real issue - that Apple's consumer desktops are bad value for money.



    Important if bang for the buck is your primary purchasing criteria. If that were the case, you're mostly likely a HP customer anyway.



    Apple sells an incremental improvement on user experience. Whether you feel that increment if 5% or 50% or 500% (okay, 500% is not so incremental) isn't as important as whether you are willing to pay an extra 10-100-1000% for that improvement.



    So yes, if Apple's strategy is to sell to those folks willing to spend 100% extra for 10% improvement in user experience then it is more than okay to be 2x as expensive for less speed if they are moving product and hugely profitable.



    Gee, Apple is moving product and hugely profitable.



    Quote:

    What they should do is just scrap the iMac lineup and drop the price of their Macbook Pros a little and introduce a cheap TN 24" display to go with it.



    What they should do is to ignore armchair market strategists (either professional or amature) . Which fortunately they have done while Steve has been at the wheel with his own, thus far successful, vision.



    I find it highly amusing that folks want to grab the wheel and make Apple change course when their overall strategy is working well. As if they could really do better.
  • Reply 4 of 77
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,538moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    I find it highly amusing that folks want to grab the wheel and make Apple change course when their overall strategy is working well. As if they could really do better.



    Their strategy works well for making money as their $25b+ reserve shows. But mindshare is what has kept Apple going for so long. When that mindshare starts to fade, they need to deliver value for money like everyone else or the end-user experience suffers.



    As of right now, their entry-level quad core machine is nearly £2000. I find that utterly ridiculous.



    They may be selling expensive and sometimes overpriced machines by riding the iphone wave but at what cost? They are still seen by many as over-hyped, overpriced and underpowered, not as high quality, high value items, which is where I think they should be aiming. It's not all about money.



    Anyway, my suggestion above was not about dropping prices but dropping the iMac in favor of the laptops given that they are almost identical price and performance-wise. Why buy a desktop that performs like a laptop but you can't take anywhere when you can buy a more upgradable laptop that you can take with you?
  • Reply 5 of 77
    wplj42wplj42 Posts: 439member
    I can agree a little with Marvin. Apple should drop the 20 inch iMac for sure. I will not purchase another iMac. The screen, be it 20 or 24, is to high-res for me. So are all of the notebooks. I would have to be insane to purchase a notebook with a screen my eyes can't use. We simply need more low vision people in the world. I will not purchase another Mac until OS 10.7. By then my iMac might be ready to retire. Maybe I should eat hotdogs and beans until then and purchase a Mac Pro. At my age, it could be my last Mac.
  • Reply 6 of 77
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Their strategy works well for making money as their $25b+ reserve shows. But mindshare is what has kept Apple going for so long. When that mindshare starts to fade, they need to deliver value for money like everyone else or the end-user experience suffers.



    When will their mindshare fade? The reason Apple has the mind share it does is because they deliver exciting products that people want to buy. Once they are no longer able to do this then I can see your point about lowering the price.



    Everyone else has to compete on value because they don't deliver exciting products that people want to buy.



    Quote:

    They may be selling expensive and sometimes overpriced machines by riding the iphone wave but at what cost? They are still seen by many as over-hyped, overpriced and underpowered, not as high quality, high value items, which is where I think they should be aiming. It's not all about money.



    Apple has been selling expensive machines long before the iPhone was around. What does it matter if some people see Apple has over priced and over hyped? Apple isn't targeting the value based market.



    Quote:

    Anyway, my suggestion above was not about dropping prices but dropping the iMac in favor of the laptops given that they are almost identical price and performance-wise. Why buy a desktop that performs like a laptop but you can't take anywhere when you can buy a more upgradable laptop that you can take with you?



    The iMac is making Apple money, I don't understand the logic of dropping a product that makes you money. Notebooks aren't practical for literally every situation.



    Here in New York I regularly see iMac's used in college computer labs, internet cafe's, and in museums. These are circumstances were a notebook doesn't fit the need as well.
  • Reply 7 of 77
    wplj42wplj42 Posts: 439member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Apple has been selling expensive machines long before the iPhone was around. What does it matter if some people see Apple has over priced and over hyped? Apple isn't targeting the value based market.



    That is likely why Apple only has 10% of the PC market. Maybe that is all they want or need. OS X is wonderful. More people would switch, not that the current numbers are bad, if Apple were to make more options available. I won't likely return to Windows. Instead, I'd rather complain that Apple doesn't let me have it my way. I feel their feelings are: "My way or the highway." It's no wonder people are cloning and hacking. I have no use for a notebook. I hope the desktop lives on, and yes, I want my CRT monitor back!
  • Reply 8 of 77
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    The two primary reasons for the Macs small marketshare are that Apple does not license OS X to OEM and Apple does not make $400 computers.



    There has never been a rule that only one business model works. Apple's is just a different approach. From a business standpoint Apple is just as successful as Microsoft in operating system development and Apple is far more successful in hardware sales than just about every PC manufacturer.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post


    That is likely why Apple only has 10% of the PC market. Maybe that is all they want or need. OS X is wonderful. More people would switch, not that the current numbers are bad, if Apple were to make more options available. I won't likely return to Windows. Instead, I'd rather complain that Apple doesn't let me have it my way. I feel their feelings are: "My way or the highway." It's no wonder people are cloning and hacking. I have no use for a notebook. I hope the desktop lives on, and yes, I want my CRT monitor back!



  • Reply 9 of 77
    wplj42wplj42 Posts: 439member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The two primary reasons for the Macs small marketshare are that Apple does not license OS X to OEM and Apple does not make $400 computers.



    There has never been a rule that only one business model works. Apple's is just a different approach. From a business standpoint Apple is just as successful as Microsoft in operating system development and Apple is far more successful in hardware sales than just about every PC manufacturer.



    I am not expecting Apple to make $400 computers. They would have to cut back on processor speed and OS X would run sluggish. All the Windows guys use to do that. For that matter Apple did the same with my first iMac G3 350. They expected it to run on 64 megs. Just because the Mac's recent growth has tripled, does not make it more successful than the others. How do you figure? I guess you could be correct with just hardware sales, but I think of Apple's success in platform market share. I would like to see them blast off and reach 25% of the market share with the Mac. In my dreams, eh?
  • Reply 10 of 77
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Wow



    This news sucks for me. It means that I'm a niche user. A person who wants desktop performance without buying a Mac Pro.



    sigh....time to eat Ramen noodles for the next two years.
  • Reply 11 of 77
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    But mindshare is what has kept Apple going for so long. When that mindshare starts to fade,



    Did you read the OP and the linked article?



    Consumer desktop sales fallen to 20%! Methinks the mind share has already moved far away from the elusive xMac.



    Do 'global moderators' share a bubble or do you have individual ones? \
  • Reply 12 of 77
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post


    I can agree a little with Marvin. Apple should drop the 20 inch iMac for sure. I will not purchase another iMac. The screen, be it 20 or 24, is to high-res for me.



    So perhaps they should drop the 24" iMac as well?



    Quote:

    We simply need more low vision people in the world.



    I hope you are joking.



    Quote:

    I will not purchase another Mac until OS 10.7. By then my iMac might be ready to retire.



    There is absolutely no reason to assume that.



    If you prefer Mac OS X it seems to be just the screen that is the problem. Why can't you buy a screen that fits your needs and a Mac Mini?
  • Reply 13 of 77
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post


    Just because the Mac's recent growth has tripled, does not make it more successful than the others. How do you figure?



    Er.... because the PC growth ... has not tripled?
  • Reply 14 of 77
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    You can look at it this way. From the last quarters earning reports.



    HP sold roughly four times the number of computers that Apple sold. HP's revenue from computer sales was $8.2 billion.



    Dell sold just over three times the number of computers that Apple sold. Dell's revenue from computer sales was $7.01 billion.



    Apple's revenue from computer sales was $6.7 billion.



    Would you prefer to sell more computers, or make more money per computer sold?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post


    Just because the Mac's recent growth has tripled, does not make it more successful than the others. How do you figure? I guess you could be correct with just hardware sales, but I think of Apple's success in platform market share. I would like to see them blast off and reach 25% of the market share with the Mac. In my dreams, eh?



  • Reply 15 of 77
    wplj42wplj42 Posts: 439member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post


    Er.... because the PC growth ... has not tripled?



    Maybe I'm not being clear. I am referring to the 2009 WWDC keynote. Within the first three minutes of the video, Philip Schiller points out that in the last two years, users of Mac OS X have tripled from 25 million to 75 million.
  • Reply 16 of 77
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post




    Would you prefer to sell more computers, or make more money per computer sold?



    Both



    While Apple's profit margins are legendary their unit sales need to still grow because the key to making Microsoft like profits is in being ubiquitous. I worry that Apple's sales could drop off faster which would have a potentially disproportionate negative impact to Apple than say a Dell or HP.
  • Reply 17 of 77
    wplj42wplj42 Posts: 439member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by piot View Post


    So perhaps they should drop the 24" iMac as well?

    I hope you are joking.

    There is absolutely no reason to assume that.

    If you prefer Mac OS X it seems to be just the screen that is the problem. Why can't you buy a screen that fits your needs and a Mac Mini?



    Okay, I don't know how to effectively use a multi-reply. So: There is no need to drop the 24" iMac just because it doesn't work for me. Apple should consider just one iMac model, they did before the Intel versions, and simply make different processor and memory options. Just like all the others. It pretty much looks like Apple is getting away form making monitors. The lineup has changed a lot. I am not joking. Those of us with low vision, and we are everywhere, are being forced to comply with the needs of you real estate starved users. I have a unique situation, but Macular Degeneration is way too common. Not to mention, eyes just get old and things are not as easy to see. Ever since the first 15" LCD, it has been a nightmare to get something I could be comfortable with. My current iMac is a 20" and it is my first departure from a CRT. I would be happier than a pig in new mud if the 840 x 524 resolution option on my iMac actually worked. I can see no reason why the pixels can't re-align if you drop the resolution exactly in half. Sorry for my soapbox, but there is no screen to fit my needs without digging up an old eMac. Sure, my iMac may not need to retire on its fifth birthday, but I won't want to deal with it that long. As I mentioned in another post, a cousin of mine is near 83 years of age and just got her first computer, a Dell Studio 17 notebook. She likes it, but even with her glasses, her nose is parked about six inches from the screen. That is freaking criminal to treat us like that. You computer geeks (generalization) need to get with the program and FIX IT. And yes, when push comes to shove, I am an OS X fan, almost exclusively due to Alex. Without speech from OS X, I would have a miserable time using this forum. It is WAY hard to see what I am typing.
  • Reply 18 of 77
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Their strategy works well for making money as their $25b+ reserve shows. But mindshare is what has kept Apple going for so long. When that mindshare starts to fade, they need to deliver value for money like everyone else or the end-user experience suffers.



    You're kidding right. You're concerned that Apple is losing mindshare?



  • Reply 19 of 77
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    What do you fear would make Apple's sales drop?



    Of course from a general sense you want to increase sales. But you cannot have it both ways. There is no way Apple will be able to sell as many computers as Dell or HP currently do with an average price of $1,500. There is no way Apple would be able to make computers at the quality they currently do if they attempted to compete with commodity manufacturers.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Both



    While Apple's profit margins are legendary their unit sales need to still grow because the key to making Microsoft like profits is in being ubiquitous. I worry that Apple's sales could drop off faster which would have a potentially disproportionate negative impact to Apple than say a Dell or HP.



  • Reply 20 of 77
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    You know that $750 Acer with blu-ray and GT130 sounds pretty sweet.
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