I would love to see somebody do an actual latency analysis on this. What about direct connenct with an uncompressed signal over something akin to SDI? This would solve the latency compresion issues and network bandwidth issue. This could be done.
Another solution is to have another box that does the processing that connects with one data cord. It could be like a Mac mini but higher powered and not need all the io. If somebody wants games they could add it fast and easy. Thus Apple could have iTV without gaming and then a gaming add on if someone were interested. Simplicity is the key and I think Apple can come up with a solution.
PS1's costed $39.00 while the Xbox was on the market at 299.00 and PS2's cost what $149.00 or have they gone down? Plus, a lot of people buying PS2's at this point are just replacing broken hardware. I know people who have had 3 or 4 PS2's. I know that 110 million systems are not sitting in anywhere near 110 million homes, probably more like 60 million.
Yes you are right and the fact that people bought new Playstation's to replace broken ones prove even more that Sony has a solid and loyal base.
Quote:
Those incredibly high sales numbers have a lot to do with...
1) A long time with no serious competition
2) Hardware matured to the point that the low cost of the system attracted even the most reluctant spenders
3) Big time name brand recognition.
Yes of course and none of that happened by magic. Sony worked to make it happen. The Playstation was launched into a crowded game market and defeated everyone including the market leaders.
Quote:
Do you have a PS3? I do, and I'm not sure it's got what it takes to beat either Nintendo or MS.
It it possible for market share to swing more in the direction of Xbox and Wii. But Sony clearly has much larger installed base and momentum.
The only extra latency would be the iTV to Mac and back traffic. This depends a lot on one's network but I think this traffic could be streamlined and made fast enough. Apple has Xgrid so they know all about handling latency for other apps.
If the end user doesn't notice this latency, then Apple has a psudeo-console solution for gaming.
I think it would be too much. Even a fraction of a second would kill the experience.
XGrid has nothing to do with latency. It's a totally different thing that they're doing with it. Synchronization of machines, and processes, is what it does. It doesn't work on the level you are talking about, nor does it control anything other than the threads of the computing process. It's not a good example.
Even if Apple did built this TV, how would they sell it?
Most of the time when people buy TV's they head over to Bestbuy/Circuit City/Whatever and stand there, find the one that looks best and walk out with it. Apple would have a few options here. They could sell it in their retail stores only (and online), or they could try to sell it alongside all other TV's in electronics retailers around the county.
Selling it in an electronics store would give it more visibility at the price of the "Apple Experience".
I really just don't see that happening. Apple has no reason to enter the TV market.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
According to news sources here in Japan, they've already called that race...Nintendo wins hands down. Sony is both overpriced (adding the unproven BluRay was a BIG mistake) and undersupplied--great formula for a losing product. XBOX was never even a contender, at least on these shores.
BTW, has anyone noticed how familiar the Wii looks-packaging, website, ads? I'd be willing to bet five nuts that Nintendo and Apple are already in love--even if they haven't consummated the relationship yet.
PREDICTION: An iMac that comes with a Wii remote and a DS model in the iPod lineup.
That's absurd. It's way too early to tell. Most of those in the business who have written about this, still think that, in the long run, Sony will sell more units than anyone else, but not to the extent as before. Sony's only problem is one of production. If that hadn't happened, it would have been out six months ago, and would have sold 5 million by now.
I would love to see somebody do an actual latency analysis on this. What about direct connenct with an uncompressed signal over something akin to SDI? This would solve the latency compresion issues and network bandwidth issue. This could be done.
Another solution is to have another box that does the processing that connects with one data cord. It could be like a Mac mini but higher powered and not need all the io. If somebody wants games they could add it fast and easy. Thus Apple could have iTV without gaming and then a gaming add on if someone were interested. Simplicity is the key and I think Apple can come up with a solution.
One box, one remote is a powerful idea.
Give it up. You're making things too complicated. Simplicity is a virtue.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
Apple are performing pretty amazingly on a very tight budget, just a few hundred million a year in r&d. I think they are already trying to juggle to many eggs. Little things like isync, which should be getting continual updates are left to languish, and itunes seems to be going crazy. Quicktime wouldnt install on my windows machine for months because of a bug in the installer which tripped over a security update ( itunes 7 fixed it ).
For whatever reason Apple are keeping their belt very tight, and until they loosen it they wont be successful releasing tvs, or games. iTv will work because it will be a very simple extension of itunes.
Apple are performing pretty amazingly on a very tight budget, just a few hundred million a year in r&d. I think they are already trying to juggle to many eggs. Little things like isync, which should be getting continual updates are left to languish, and itunes seems to be going crazy. Quicktime wouldnt install on my windows machine for months because of a bug in the installer which tripped over a security update ( itunes 7 fixed it ).
For whatever reason Apple are keeping their belt very tight, and until they loosen it they wont be successful releasing tvs, or games. iTv will work because it will be a very simple extension of itunes.
As Apple gets bigger, they have to have more product lines. Otherwise, when one of them slows in sales, it becomes too big a portion of the entire sales picture.
When Apple was small, the people buying their products were more knowledgable, and reliable. Not true today.
It's also the only way for a company to grow quickly.
Apple will never grow quickly. Product wise they will always be limited. This gaming rumor is either all about iPod style basic games on the iTV or fake. You will never see Apple introduce a bunch (5) of brand new products in one year, and sustain that every year like most electronics companies. If anyone thinks Apple will try and get into serious console gaming they have lost their minds.
2. Aquire a large gaming company with great upcoming game.
3. Develop a console that plays games, downloads movies, streams video/photos
4. License the hell out of the platform.
Microsoft has created a winner in just 3 generations of Xbox consoles. Apple can cut that down to 2 generations if they just follow the pattern of success and avoid the pitfalls.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
Why would I be more interested in an Apple TV than anyone else's? A TV is never going to be an all-in-one entertainment system. Fine, it can stream audio and video from the Mac/PC, so what does it do with all that audio? Do I get to enjoy it through the crappy speakers the TV will have? That certainly won't make for the cinematic experience I already get with my TV/DVD player/surround sound receiver/5.1 speaker set-up.
Is Apple also going to provide the receiver that many audio/videophiles are going to need? Are they going to supply the speakers required? I doubt Apple would try to take on all the various companies these technologies represent.
If anything, I'd see something similar to what has happened with the iPod. Apple makes the iTV and other manufacturers make "Made for iTV" products. Maybe they all contain a wireless component so they end up as sort of plug-and-play add-ons that the iTV then controls. I'll admit, it's sort of a pain watching a DVD on the current set-up: turn TV on, set TV to correct video input, turn receiver on, set to correct A/V source, turn DVD player on, insert disc, and hit play. If Apple could simplify that so all I had to do was insert the DVD and hit play, that would be great and certainly help the average customer make use of a home theater system.
As for Apple creating a game console, why not? Sony came out of nowhere with their system and are now the lead player. Before Sony, it was a two-horse race between Nintendo and Sega. And where are they now? Sega doesn't even make consoles anymore and Nintendo is at the back of the pack in home consoles (though it does still own the portable market it nearly invented with the Game Boy). I'd love to see a Nintendo/Apple team-up (WiiPod or maybe an iPod DS), but I'd also like to meet a dragon too, and I think they both have about the same chance of happening.
(sorry, double post....for whatever reason, these forums always say I'm not logged in the first time I try to submit, even when I am. Apparently this time it decided to post it anyway).
That's just it. They're already calling Blu-ray the new beta, and after gauging consumer sentiment, it seems people are unwilling to splurge that 2-300 dollars extra for a format that may well be extinct in a few years. Everyone is waiting around to see where everyone else is gonna go, and people are not adopting PS3s as rapidly as Sony may have hoped.
My Wii has just arrived as I write, and I swear, that box would so not look out of place in an Apple store...
People are adopting PS3 as fast as Sony can produce them. Despite the low number of sales compared to XBOX 360 and Wii, Sony is already ahead in the High Defintion DVD market due solely to the PS3. The war isn't over but things are leaning heavily in Blu-ray's favor at the moment.
Apple will never grow quickly. Product wise they will always be limited. This gaming rumor is either all about iPod style basic games on the iTV or fake. You will never see Apple introduce a bunch (5) of brand new products in one year, and sustain that every year like most electronics companies. If anyone thinks Apple will try and get into serious console gaming they have lost their minds.
PS3 Ownz. 2 Terraflops per second.
Apple is branching out to become a consumer electronics company. That became obvious once they had success with the iPod. They will continue to do that. I don't think they will look back.
We are talking about Steve Jobs here. To assume anything that has gone before is a model of what he has in mind is pointless. 'A Paradigm Shift' is a given. Gaming as a concept from Apple may be something we haven't even imagined yet.
Why would I be more interested in an Apple TV than anyone else's? A TV is never going to be an all-in-one entertainment system. Fine, it can stream audio and video from the Mac/PC, so what does it do with all that audio? Do I get to enjoy it through the crappy speakers the TV will have? That certainly won't make for the cinematic experience I already get with my TV/DVD player/surround sound receiver/5.1 speaker set-up.
Is Apple also going to provide the receiver that many audio/videophiles are going to need? Are they going to supply the speakers required? I doubt Apple would try to take on all the various companies these technologies represent.
If anything, I'd see something similar to what has happened with the iPod. Apple makes the iTV and other manufacturers make "Made for iTV" products. Maybe they all contain a wireless component so they end up as sort of plug-and-play add-ons that the iTV then controls. I'll admit, it's sort of a pain watching a DVD on the current set-up: turn TV on, set TV to correct video input, turn receiver on, set to correct A/V source, turn DVD player on, insert disc, and hit play. If Apple could simplify that so all I had to do was insert the DVD and hit play, that would be great and certainly help the average customer make use of a home theater system.
As for Apple creating a game console, why not? Sony came out of nowhere with their system and are now the lead player. Before Sony, it was a two-horse race between Nintendo and Sega. And where are they now? Sega doesn't even make consoles anymore and Nintendo is at the back of the pack in home consoles (though it does still own the portable market it nearly invented with the Game Boy). I'd love to see a Nintendo/Apple team-up (WiiPod or maybe an iPod DS), but I'd also like to meet a dragon too, and I think they both have about the same chance of happening.
You're just one person. Even if a couple here said what you are saying, I wouldn't consider it to be representative of the public at large. I've asked perhaps two dozen people if they would buy an Apple branded Tv, and most of them said that they would be interested. It's such a big market that if even 5% of people buying in any category bought an Apple product, Apple could add a billion bucks to their sales a year.
We are talking about Steve Jobs here. To assume anything that has gone before is a model of what he has in mind is pointless. 'A Paradigm Shift' is a given. Gaming as a concept from Apple may be something we haven't even imagined yet.
If you read the posts you will see that a bunch of us have.
Comments
Another solution is to have another box that does the processing that connects with one data cord. It could be like a Mac mini but higher powered and not need all the io. If somebody wants games they could add it fast and easy. Thus Apple could have iTV without gaming and then a gaming add on if someone were interested. Simplicity is the key and I think Apple can come up with a solution.
One box, one remote is a powerful idea.
PS1's costed $39.00 while the Xbox was on the market at 299.00 and PS2's cost what $149.00 or have they gone down? Plus, a lot of people buying PS2's at this point are just replacing broken hardware. I know people who have had 3 or 4 PS2's. I know that 110 million systems are not sitting in anywhere near 110 million homes, probably more like 60 million.
Yes you are right and the fact that people bought new Playstation's to replace broken ones prove even more that Sony has a solid and loyal base.
Those incredibly high sales numbers have a lot to do with...
1) A long time with no serious competition
2) Hardware matured to the point that the low cost of the system attracted even the most reluctant spenders
3) Big time name brand recognition.
Yes of course and none of that happened by magic. Sony worked to make it happen. The Playstation was launched into a crowded game market and defeated everyone including the market leaders.
Do you have a PS3? I do, and I'm not sure it's got what it takes to beat either Nintendo or MS.
It it possible for market share to swing more in the direction of Xbox and Wii. But Sony clearly has much larger installed base and momentum.
melgross,
About latency.
The only extra latency would be the iTV to Mac and back traffic. This depends a lot on one's network but I think this traffic could be streamlined and made fast enough. Apple has Xgrid so they know all about handling latency for other apps.
If the end user doesn't notice this latency, then Apple has a psudeo-console solution for gaming.
I think it would be too much. Even a fraction of a second would kill the experience.
XGrid has nothing to do with latency. It's a totally different thing that they're doing with it. Synchronization of machines, and processes, is what it does. It doesn't work on the level you are talking about, nor does it control anything other than the threads of the computing process. It's not a good example.
I guess my question is: why?
Is there really that much money in the TV market?
Even if Apple did built this TV, how would they sell it?
Most of the time when people buy TV's they head over to Bestbuy/Circuit City/Whatever and stand there, find the one that looks best and walk out with it. Apple would have a few options here. They could sell it in their retail stores only (and online), or they could try to sell it alongside all other TV's in electronics retailers around the county.
Selling it in an electronics store would give it more visibility at the price of the "Apple Experience".
I really just don't see that happening. Apple has no reason to enter the TV market.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
According to news sources here in Japan, they've already called that race...Nintendo wins hands down. Sony is both overpriced (adding the unproven BluRay was a BIG mistake) and undersupplied--great formula for a losing product. XBOX was never even a contender, at least on these shores.
BTW, has anyone noticed how familiar the Wii looks-packaging, website, ads? I'd be willing to bet five nuts that Nintendo and Apple are already in love--even if they haven't consummated the relationship yet.
PREDICTION: An iMac that comes with a Wii remote and a DS model in the iPod lineup.
That's absurd. It's way too early to tell. Most of those in the business who have written about this, still think that, in the long run, Sony will sell more units than anyone else, but not to the extent as before. Sony's only problem is one of production. If that hadn't happened, it would have been out six months ago, and would have sold 5 million by now.
I would love to see somebody do an actual latency analysis on this. What about direct connenct with an uncompressed signal over something akin to SDI? This would solve the latency compresion issues and network bandwidth issue. This could be done.
Another solution is to have another box that does the processing that connects with one data cord. It could be like a Mac mini but higher powered and not need all the io. If somebody wants games they could add it fast and easy. Thus Apple could have iTV without gaming and then a gaming add on if someone were interested. Simplicity is the key and I think Apple can come up with a solution.
One box, one remote is a powerful idea.
Give it up. You're making things too complicated. Simplicity is a virtue.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
^ This way is up ^
For whatever reason Apple are keeping their belt very tight, and until they loosen it they wont be successful releasing tvs, or games. iTv will work because it will be a very simple extension of itunes.
Apple are performing pretty amazingly on a very tight budget, just a few hundred million a year in r&d. I think they are already trying to juggle to many eggs. Little things like isync, which should be getting continual updates are left to languish, and itunes seems to be going crazy. Quicktime wouldnt install on my windows machine for months because of a bug in the installer which tripped over a security update ( itunes 7 fixed it ).
For whatever reason Apple are keeping their belt very tight, and until they loosen it they wont be successful releasing tvs, or games. iTv will work because it will be a very simple extension of itunes.
As Apple gets bigger, they have to have more product lines. Otherwise, when one of them slows in sales, it becomes too big a portion of the entire sales picture.
When Apple was small, the people buying their products were more knowledgable, and reliable. Not true today.
It's also the only way for a company to grow quickly.
PS3 Ownz. 2 Terraflops per second.
Getting into gaming is fairly easy.
1. Develop a powerful gaming API for OSX
2. Aquire a large gaming company with great upcoming game.
3. Develop a console that plays games, downloads movies, streams video/photos
4. License the hell out of the platform.
Microsoft has created a winner in just 3 generations of Xbox consoles. Apple can cut that down to 2 generations if they just follow the pattern of success and avoid the pitfalls.
Bring on the iGame Console!
Do you work for Sega?
Do you work for Sega?
Ouch.
There is a huge amount of money in the Tv market. New stats show that, for the first time, LCD TV's are in the majority of sales, and have increased by 300% from last year. Tv's over 32" are becoming the most popular category. The sales are in the tens of billions, overall.
So, yes, it certainly pays.
Quite a few people would be interested in an Apple Tv. You better believe it!
You could say the same you're saying about an Apple phone, or MP3 player.
People are also wanting a "turnkey" system. everything made by one company. This way they get the same styling, the same functionality that they know will work together, and responsibility from that company, because it can't say that one part was not made by them, and is therefore the cause of the problem.
Why would I be more interested in an Apple TV than anyone else's? A TV is never going to be an all-in-one entertainment system. Fine, it can stream audio and video from the Mac/PC, so what does it do with all that audio? Do I get to enjoy it through the crappy speakers the TV will have? That certainly won't make for the cinematic experience I already get with my TV/DVD player/surround sound receiver/5.1 speaker set-up.
Is Apple also going to provide the receiver that many audio/videophiles are going to need? Are they going to supply the speakers required? I doubt Apple would try to take on all the various companies these technologies represent.
If anything, I'd see something similar to what has happened with the iPod. Apple makes the iTV and other manufacturers make "Made for iTV" products. Maybe they all contain a wireless component so they end up as sort of plug-and-play add-ons that the iTV then controls. I'll admit, it's sort of a pain watching a DVD on the current set-up: turn TV on, set TV to correct video input, turn receiver on, set to correct A/V source, turn DVD player on, insert disc, and hit play. If Apple could simplify that so all I had to do was insert the DVD and hit play, that would be great and certainly help the average customer make use of a home theater system.
As for Apple creating a game console, why not? Sony came out of nowhere with their system and are now the lead player. Before Sony, it was a two-horse race between Nintendo and Sega. And where are they now? Sega doesn't even make consoles anymore and Nintendo is at the back of the pack in home consoles (though it does still own the portable market it nearly invented with the Game Boy). I'd love to see a Nintendo/Apple team-up (WiiPod or maybe an iPod DS), but I'd also like to meet a dragon too, and I think they both have about the same chance of happening.
That's just it. They're already calling Blu-ray the new beta, and after gauging consumer sentiment, it seems people are unwilling to splurge that 2-300 dollars extra for a format that may well be extinct in a few years. Everyone is waiting around to see where everyone else is gonna go, and people are not adopting PS3s as rapidly as Sony may have hoped.
My Wii has just arrived as I write, and I swear, that box would so not look out of place in an Apple store...
People are adopting PS3 as fast as Sony can produce them. Despite the low number of sales compared to XBOX 360 and Wii, Sony is already ahead in the High Defintion DVD market due solely to the PS3. The war isn't over but things are leaning heavily in Blu-ray's favor at the moment.
Apple will never grow quickly. Product wise they will always be limited. This gaming rumor is either all about iPod style basic games on the iTV or fake. You will never see Apple introduce a bunch (5) of brand new products in one year, and sustain that every year like most electronics companies. If anyone thinks Apple will try and get into serious console gaming they have lost their minds.
PS3 Ownz. 2 Terraflops per second.
Apple is branching out to become a consumer electronics company. That became obvious once they had success with the iPod. They will continue to do that. I don't think they will look back.
Why would I be more interested in an Apple TV than anyone else's? A TV is never going to be an all-in-one entertainment system. Fine, it can stream audio and video from the Mac/PC, so what does it do with all that audio? Do I get to enjoy it through the crappy speakers the TV will have? That certainly won't make for the cinematic experience I already get with my TV/DVD player/surround sound receiver/5.1 speaker set-up.
Is Apple also going to provide the receiver that many audio/videophiles are going to need? Are they going to supply the speakers required? I doubt Apple would try to take on all the various companies these technologies represent.
If anything, I'd see something similar to what has happened with the iPod. Apple makes the iTV and other manufacturers make "Made for iTV" products. Maybe they all contain a wireless component so they end up as sort of plug-and-play add-ons that the iTV then controls. I'll admit, it's sort of a pain watching a DVD on the current set-up: turn TV on, set TV to correct video input, turn receiver on, set to correct A/V source, turn DVD player on, insert disc, and hit play. If Apple could simplify that so all I had to do was insert the DVD and hit play, that would be great and certainly help the average customer make use of a home theater system.
As for Apple creating a game console, why not? Sony came out of nowhere with their system and are now the lead player. Before Sony, it was a two-horse race between Nintendo and Sega. And where are they now? Sega doesn't even make consoles anymore and Nintendo is at the back of the pack in home consoles (though it does still own the portable market it nearly invented with the Game Boy). I'd love to see a Nintendo/Apple team-up (WiiPod or maybe an iPod DS), but I'd also like to meet a dragon too, and I think they both have about the same chance of happening.
You're just one person. Even if a couple here said what you are saying, I wouldn't consider it to be representative of the public at large. I've asked perhaps two dozen people if they would buy an Apple branded Tv, and most of them said that they would be interested. It's such a big market that if even 5% of people buying in any category bought an Apple product, Apple could add a billion bucks to their sales a year.
We are talking about Steve Jobs here. To assume anything that has gone before is a model of what he has in mind is pointless. 'A Paradigm Shift' is a given. Gaming as a concept from Apple may be something we haven't even imagined yet.
If you read the posts you will see that a bunch of us have.
If you read the posts you will see that a bunch of us have.
What read his mind?