Apple didn't put wifi in there so you won't be locked into using the carrier's data plan, they put wifi there because they are about to sell a $600 phone, and wifi was pretty much a must.
Why do you feel that Apple has to have tight control for users to have seemless experience with their computer. The core of the phone, i agree, Apple should have tight control, but as far as them needing to have the type of control that they are trying to have over the iPhone, there is no need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella
Woah! Big difference.
Verizon blocks features and forces you to spend more money by locking you into their services.
Apple put WiFi into the iPhone so you aren't locked into only using the carrier's expensive data plan.
Verizon disables bluetooth so you can't sync with your Address Book or send pictures directly to your computer.
Apple exerts tight control over the phone so you have a seemless experience syncing YOUR addresses, photos, music and photos.
Apple didn't put wifi in there so you won't be locked into using the carrier's data plan, they put wifi there because they are about to sell a $600 phone, and wifi was pretty much a must.
Is that why Verizon doesn't offer a single smartphone with WiFi built-in at any price level?
Apple didn't have to include WiFi, but they did because Apple wants to build compelling devices that will appeal to consumers.
Verizon wants to sell you a phone that will nickel and dime you to death and increase their bottom line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight
Why do you feel that Apple has to have tight control for users to have seemless experience with their computer. The core of the phone, i agree, Apple should have tight control, but as far as them needing to have the type of control that they are trying to have over the iPhone, there is no need.
Does any company have to have tight control over the hardware/software it makes? NO.
Unfortunately, we HAVE TO choose between a phone controlled by Apple, Cingular or Verizon.
Verizon blocks features and forces you to spend more money by locking you into their services.
Apple put WiFi into the iPhone so you aren't locked into only using the carrier's expensive data plan.
Verizon disables bluetooth so you can't sync with your Address Book or send pictures directly to your computer.
Apple exerts tight control over the phone so you have a seemless experience syncing YOUR addresses, photos, music and photos.
I could go on...
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
As for service plans, my contract with Verizon says that if something goes wrong with my phone in the first year, they replace it, no questions asked. With Apple, sometimes it takes dozens of phone calls just to convince them that you actually have a problem, and its not just your imagination.
Is that why Verizon doesn't offer a single smartphone with WiFi built-in at any price level?
Apple didn't have to include WiFi, but they did because Apple wants to build compelling devices that will appeal to consumers.
Verizon wants to sell you a phone that will nickel and dime you to death and increase their bottom line.
Does any company have to have tight control over the hardware/software it makes? NO.
Unfortunately, we HAVE TO choose between a phone controlled by Apple, Cingular or Verizon.
I'll go with Apple any day.
you are 100% incorrect
verizon sells two PDA's that have WiFi
the samsung i730 and the XV6700
verizon has their own UI and cripples blueooth because 1.) 99.9% of the customers don't care and 2.) it prevents nightmare support issues. however they are slowly changing their ways, the LG enV has bluetooth file transfer
besides, verizon is unlikely to change anything since they just added over 2 million new customers this past quarter. cingular (once you take away prepaid activations) was only in the neighborhood of 800,000.
cingular needs apple more than verizon does. hence the deal.
Among them, Apple reportedly wanted a percentage of the monthly cellphone fees, a say over how and where iPhones could be sold, and control of the relationship with iPhone customers.
The iPhone will pretty much allow you to get around all of the extra media services that cell phone companies want to charge extra for. The part of this that sounds good is that left unabated cell phone companies would charge individual prices to unlock all of iPhones functionality and a large to price to use everything. That would render the entire concept of the device useless.
I can see the reason for Apple wanting to control all of this so that cell phone companies don't lock the phones functionality and hopefully not grossly over charge for all of the phones functionality.
Quote:
Apple didn't put wifi in there so you won't be locked into using the carrier's data plan, they put wifi there because they are about to sell a $600 phone, and wifi was pretty much a must.
Well WiFi is there what's the difference as to why.
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
Let me put it another way...
If you want a phone that puts as few restrictions on you as possible, then a Linux smartphone is for you. You can code any app you want and you can write drivers to interface with your toaster. More power to ya.
Back to the real world...You have a choice in the current US cell phone market:
I feel that all these companies are trying to nickle and dime us to death. I've been with Cingular, and I know they want every penny out of your pocket. I'm sure in the end, they will try to push Apple into not allowing songs from your iTunes collection not to be used as ring tones. The ring tone business is major money for cell phone comapies, and I'm sure Cingular wants all the cash they can get off these new iPhones. But I can understand that.
Apple wanted Verizon to give them money from the service agreement, which I think is being greedy. It's all about money to these companies, which I understand because they are in business to make money. But in the end, it feels as if it's the end users (us) that pay the price. All in all, I'm a Cingular customer who will get a iPhone as soon as it's released.
Boo. Hiss. Verizon's XV6700 could have been the best PDA/phone on the market today, with a great balance of small size, robust features, and decent call quality. Unfortunately, Verizon's decision to cripple the gadget's Wi-Fi abilities should send power users running to Sprint, which has a better version.
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Samsung i730 won't be available till July 7th.
While I was wrong to some degree, Verizon's past motives are very clear and I hope they continue to change their business practices in the future.
I wonder if Cingular plans on crippling their wifi abilities. My current smartphone doesn't have wifi, so I have to use their data plan. But if they don't cripple their wifi, I'm dumping it. I don't see the need for both. Wifi hotspots are everywhere.\
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella
Here is PCMag's initial review of the phone:
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Samsung i730 won't be available till July 7th.
While I was wrong to some degree, Verizon's past motives are very clear and I hope they continue to change their business practices in the future.
I hate Verizon, they cripple the phones they offer. Both my daughter and son have worked for them, my son no longer. We are all Mac users. My daughter always tells me how customers who use Macs complain about what Verizon does to their phones. As far as the networks go, I'm in the NW and when I'm in the basement of the capitol's buildings I have no problems calling out on my Cingular phone while the Verizon customers just start cussing at their service due to no connection. So many of my Mac using friends are moving over to Cingular. My wife and I are anxiously waiting for the iPhone. Thank goodness Apple went with Cingular.
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
As for service plans, my contract with Verizon says that if something goes wrong with my phone in the first year, they replace it, no questions asked. With Apple, sometimes it takes dozens of phone calls just to convince them that you actually have a problem, and its not just your imagination.
The software is the product. Saying "you must use their software to get all that seamless experience" is like saying "Apple locks you into to using OS X to get the OS X experience".
Look, how would you like it if ISPs got to vet what devices got used on their networks? Apple brings out the iTunes Store, Earthlink says "oh no you don't, we are the ones that get to make money on music downloads, we won't let you sell computers that can access the iTMS."
That would be insane, no? The internet is like plumbing, and you don't want your plumbing editorializing about your choice in faucets or when you water you lawn or whether you use a Brita filter.
Verizon, though, owns the plumbing and they think that means they should get to control the whole process. They are wrong, and the market will prove them wrong once another carrier allows an ISP type relationship among user, hardware and service provider.
The iPhone is the catalyst for that. Sure, ATT doesn't have the coverage, but it improves all the time and there is finite land mass to deal with. But what happens when Verizon users notice that ATT users not only get the iPhone, they get real iTunes and real downloads and real connectivity? That non-geeks are actually using the calendaring functions and carrying around all their contacts?
The iPhone is a palmtop computer that uses a cell network as an ISP. ATT apparently agreed to serve in that role, and once people get a taste of that they're going to wonder why they put up with all the bullshit. Verizon wants to be the mainframe, with their phones as dumb terminals. We already know how that model worked out for the desktop.
While there seem to be a lot of opinions on which is the worst carrier, the facts appear to be that Apple choose Verizon Wireless as their first choice. So, whether you like it or not, it appears to this Apple fan like Apple feels Verizon Wireless is the better option and only settled for Cingular after Verizon told them no deal.
While there seem to be a lot of opinions on which is the worst carrier, the facts appear to be that Apple choose Verizon Wireless as their first choice. So, whether you like it or not, it appears to this Apple fan like Apple feels Verizon Wireless is the better option and only settled for Cingular after Verizon told them no deal.
Only because the information says that it was an exclusive agreement for Verizon and also Cingular's contract is exclusive. It seems pretty clear, at least by the information available.
Only because the information says that it was an exclusive agreement for Verizon and also Cingular's contract is exclusive. It seems pretty clear, at least by the information available.
Ah, I hadn't caught the "exclusive" part of the Verizon story. You're absolutely right.
Wow. I just assumed the Cingular deal was one or two years. Five?
We don't know when it started. Maybe the five years started with that ROKR, but maybe not, because that phone was Motorola's deal with iTunes software.
verizon has their own UI and cripples blueooth because 1.) 99.9% of the customers don't care and 2.) it prevents nightmare support issues. however they are slowly changing their ways, the LG enV has bluetooth file transfer
I don't think that makes sense. If almost no one uses it, then it's not going to be a major support issue. I don't remember having problems with Bluetooth.
Comments
Why do you feel that Apple has to have tight control for users to have seemless experience with their computer. The core of the phone, i agree, Apple should have tight control, but as far as them needing to have the type of control that they are trying to have over the iPhone, there is no need.
Woah! Big difference.
Verizon blocks features and forces you to spend more money by locking you into their services.
Apple put WiFi into the iPhone so you aren't locked into only using the carrier's expensive data plan.
Verizon disables bluetooth so you can't sync with your Address Book or send pictures directly to your computer.
Apple exerts tight control over the phone so you have a seemless experience syncing YOUR addresses, photos, music and photos.
I could go on...
Apple didn't put wifi in there so you won't be locked into using the carrier's data plan, they put wifi there because they are about to sell a $600 phone, and wifi was pretty much a must.
Is that why Verizon doesn't offer a single smartphone with WiFi built-in at any price level?
Apple didn't have to include WiFi, but they did because Apple wants to build compelling devices that will appeal to consumers.
Verizon wants to sell you a phone that will nickel and dime you to death and increase their bottom line.
Why do you feel that Apple has to have tight control for users to have seemless experience with their computer. The core of the phone, i agree, Apple should have tight control, but as far as them needing to have the type of control that they are trying to have over the iPhone, there is no need.
Does any company have to have tight control over the hardware/software it makes? NO.
Unfortunately, we HAVE TO choose between a phone controlled by Apple, Cingular or Verizon.
I'll go with Apple any day.
But will you be able to use a Skype Widget on iPhone?... hmmm
No.
I'm sure some hackers will get Linux running but I doubt we will see Skype.
Also keep in mind that Skype is a black box technology and can't be implemented without first reverse engineering Skype's protocols.
Woah! Big difference.
Verizon blocks features and forces you to spend more money by locking you into their services.
Apple put WiFi into the iPhone so you aren't locked into only using the carrier's expensive data plan.
Verizon disables bluetooth so you can't sync with your Address Book or send pictures directly to your computer.
Apple exerts tight control over the phone so you have a seemless experience syncing YOUR addresses, photos, music and photos.
I could go on...
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
As for service plans, my contract with Verizon says that if something goes wrong with my phone in the first year, they replace it, no questions asked. With Apple, sometimes it takes dozens of phone calls just to convince them that you actually have a problem, and its not just your imagination.
Is that why Verizon doesn't offer a single smartphone with WiFi built-in at any price level?
Apple didn't have to include WiFi, but they did because Apple wants to build compelling devices that will appeal to consumers.
Verizon wants to sell you a phone that will nickel and dime you to death and increase their bottom line.
Does any company have to have tight control over the hardware/software it makes? NO.
Unfortunately, we HAVE TO choose between a phone controlled by Apple, Cingular or Verizon.
I'll go with Apple any day.
you are 100% incorrect
verizon sells two PDA's that have WiFi
the samsung i730 and the XV6700
verizon has their own UI and cripples blueooth because 1.) 99.9% of the customers don't care and 2.) it prevents nightmare support issues. however they are slowly changing their ways, the LG enV has bluetooth file transfer
besides, verizon is unlikely to change anything since they just added over 2 million new customers this past quarter. cingular (once you take away prepaid activations) was only in the neighborhood of 800,000.
cingular needs apple more than verizon does. hence the deal.
Among them, Apple reportedly wanted a percentage of the monthly cellphone fees, a say over how and where iPhones could be sold, and control of the relationship with iPhone customers.
The iPhone will pretty much allow you to get around all of the extra media services that cell phone companies want to charge extra for. The part of this that sounds good is that left unabated cell phone companies would charge individual prices to unlock all of iPhones functionality and a large to price to use everything. That would render the entire concept of the device useless.
I can see the reason for Apple wanting to control all of this so that cell phone companies don't lock the phones functionality and hopefully not grossly over charge for all of the phones functionality.
Apple didn't put wifi in there so you won't be locked into using the carrier's data plan, they put wifi there because they are about to sell a $600 phone, and wifi was pretty much a must.
Well WiFi is there what's the difference as to why.
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
Let me put it another way...
If you want a phone that puts as few restrictions on you as possible, then a Linux smartphone is for you. You can code any app you want and you can write drivers to interface with your toaster. More power to ya.
Back to the real world...You have a choice in the current US cell phone market:
A phone crippled by Verizon (least functional)
A phone crippled by T-Mobile
A phone crippled by Sprint
A phone crippled by Cingular
A phone crippled by Apple (most functional)
Pick your poison.
I'm drinkin the Kool-Aid on this one.
Apple wanted Verizon to give them money from the service agreement, which I think is being greedy. It's all about money to these companies, which I understand because they are in business to make money. But in the end, it feels as if it's the end users (us) that pay the price. All in all, I'm a Cingular customer who will get a iPhone as soon as it's released.
you are 100% incorrect
verizon sells two PDA's that have WiFi
the samsung i730 and the XV6700
Here is PCMag's initial review of the phone:
Boo. Hiss. Verizon's XV6700 could have been the best PDA/phone on the market today, with a great balance of small size, robust features, and decent call quality. Unfortunately, Verizon's decision to cripple the gadget's Wi-Fi abilities should send power users running to Sprint, which has a better version.
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Samsung i730 won't be available till July 7th.
While I was wrong to some degree, Verizon's past motives are very clear and I hope they continue to change their business practices in the future.
Here is PCMag's initial review of the phone:
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Samsung i730 won't be available till July 7th.
While I was wrong to some degree, Verizon's past motives are very clear and I hope they continue to change their business practices in the future.
Um, Apple exerts such tight control that you MUST use THEIR software in order to get all that seamless experience. Apple's locking you in, just locking you into their software, rather then their wireless service.
As for service plans, my contract with Verizon says that if something goes wrong with my phone in the first year, they replace it, no questions asked. With Apple, sometimes it takes dozens of phone calls just to convince them that you actually have a problem, and its not just your imagination.
The software is the product. Saying "you must use their software to get all that seamless experience" is like saying "Apple locks you into to using OS X to get the OS X experience".
Look, how would you like it if ISPs got to vet what devices got used on their networks? Apple brings out the iTunes Store, Earthlink says "oh no you don't, we are the ones that get to make money on music downloads, we won't let you sell computers that can access the iTMS."
That would be insane, no? The internet is like plumbing, and you don't want your plumbing editorializing about your choice in faucets or when you water you lawn or whether you use a Brita filter.
Verizon, though, owns the plumbing and they think that means they should get to control the whole process. They are wrong, and the market will prove them wrong once another carrier allows an ISP type relationship among user, hardware and service provider.
The iPhone is the catalyst for that. Sure, ATT doesn't have the coverage, but it improves all the time and there is finite land mass to deal with. But what happens when Verizon users notice that ATT users not only get the iPhone, they get real iTunes and real downloads and real connectivity? That non-geeks are actually using the calendaring functions and carrying around all their contacts?
The iPhone is a palmtop computer that uses a cell network as an ISP. ATT apparently agreed to serve in that role, and once people get a taste of that they're going to wonder why they put up with all the bullshit. Verizon wants to be the mainframe, with their phones as dumb terminals. We already know how that model worked out for the desktop.
While there seem to be a lot of opinions on which is the worst carrier, the facts appear to be that Apple choose Verizon Wireless as their first choice. So, whether you like it or not, it appears to this Apple fan like Apple feels Verizon Wireless is the better option and only settled for Cingular after Verizon told them no deal.
How do you know they weren't trying to get both?
How do you know they weren't trying to get both?
Only because the information says that it was an exclusive agreement for Verizon and also Cingular's contract is exclusive. It seems pretty clear, at least by the information available.
Only because the information says that it was an exclusive agreement for Verizon and also Cingular's contract is exclusive. It seems pretty clear, at least by the information available.
Ah, I hadn't caught the "exclusive" part of the Verizon story. You're absolutely right.
Wow. I just assumed the Cingular deal was one or two years. Five?
We don't know when it started. Maybe the five years started with that ROKR, but maybe not, because that phone was Motorola's deal with iTunes software.
I do agree that five years is a very long time.
verizon has their own UI and cripples blueooth because 1.) 99.9% of the customers don't care and 2.) it prevents nightmare support issues. however they are slowly changing their ways, the LG enV has bluetooth file transfer
I don't think that makes sense. If almost no one uses it, then it's not going to be a major support issue. I don't remember having problems with Bluetooth.
Back to the real world...You have a choice in the current US cell phone market:
A phone crippled by Verizon (least functional)
A phone crippled by T-Mobile
A phone crippled by Sprint
A phone crippled by Cingular
A phone crippled by Apple (most functional)
Pick your poison.
I'm drinkin the Kool-Aid on this one.
Are there only four providers now?