If the Mac pro is too expensive now I really doubt new one will be any cheaper.
I'm sure you're right. BUT, a new 24" iMac with, say a 7900GTX 512 Mb or an X1950XTX.... Oh, and a 16X superdrive. What I really want is a better iMac.
You really dont know much about the subject at hand , so if i were you i'd read up on it.
Bottom line is Apple is about 2 generations behind at the end of their update cycle and they were already one generation behind when they finally shipped 1900s.
So answer to OP question is - Definately YES. No questions about it.
No, they're half a generation behind ATI, and one generation behind NVIDIA. You can't add up one generation from each manufacturer that they sell, and say that they're that many generations behind. That's just stupid.
However, even saying they're a generation behind is a little unfair—the 8800 came out what, November? So they're three months behind. That's hardly lagging.
While I won't defend Apple's lack of choices regarding GPUs and they should do better on this front, the picture you're trying to paint just isn't true.
No, they're half a generation behind ATI, and one generation behind NVIDIA. You can't add up one generation from each manufacturer that they sell, and say that they're that many generations behind. That's just stupid.
However, even saying they're a generation behind is a little unfair?the 8800 came out what, November? So they're three months behind. That's hardly lagging.
While I won't defend Apple's lack of choices regarding GPUs and they should do better on this front, the picture you're trying to paint just isn't true.
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
You can't redefine terminology to make a point.
NVIDIA's GeForce 7 Series is a generation. NVIDIA's GeForce 8 Series is a generation.
The 7950, though having come out a whopping 3 months after the 7800, is still part of the 7th generation.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS. BIOS based cards don't work in new Macs, but most any EFI card would. If Vista had EFI like was planned almost every card that is out would work in a Mac because they would all be using EFI.
So, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using EFI or BIOS (aside form the fact that the latest cards are only available for systems using BIOS)? Also, do you think micosoft will make the BIOS-to-EFI transition, and if so, when?
So, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using EFI or BIOS (aside form the fact that the latest cards are only available for systems using BIOS)? Also, do you think micosoft will make the BIOS-to-EFI transition, and if so, when?
I don't think Microsoft will make a transition because of OS X. They are scared, and they will try to use everything they can to keep Macs out of the hands of those who would switch if they had that one little thing. And this is one of those little things that will keep another small percentage using all Microsoft products. Even though most switchers will also be running a copy of Vista on a Mac anyway IMO. They will need to retain their safety net. The "Just in case" factor.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS.
I think gonna cry! Or go spray paint some MS property - GRR! Microsuck makes me so mad! Do they have nothing better to do than to hurt consumers?!
Hopefully Intel will be able to help Apple a bit on the EFI... I think I remember reading somewhere how ripped at MS Intel was when MS chose IBM for the xbox, and I think I read Intel would like to promote EFI. Anyone else read this and think Intel might be able to help Apple in the EFI promotion?
According to the Inquirer, AMD's latest graphics board R600XTX is coming soon to a Mac near you.
"We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode."
"The big R600XTX card codenamed Dragons head is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and SIs (System Integretor) card only. The card should be launched in March and will be available at the same month but rather late march than early"
This could also mean that the Mac Pro upgrade is coming in March.
I've always been a loyal nVidia fan and grace my gaming PC with the best I can afford, but there are options open the Mac. I'm quite pleased with the GPU performance in my MacBook Pro. The GPU performance in most PC lapdogs sucks something rotten. Unless you intend on spending £2k plus on a gaming specific Alienware or high end Sony Vaio, you're not going to get anywhere near the performance of the MacBook Pro. I'm in the market for a new MacPro, but I'm currently holding on for Leopard and the updated hardware. But I have been told by a so called Apple Genius that most PCI Express Dual DVI GPUs will work in the MacPro. This will include X-Fire and SLi.
I'm yet to try this, but really hope that it's true. I don't know whether he was making a certain number of assumptions and not taking BIOS / EFI into account, but if there's anyone in a position to give this a go they should let us know the outcome.
in my opinion yes apple is patheticly behind in gpu depatment. their highest consumer gpu at the moment is 1900xt.
pc world has 1900 xtx , 1950 generation , and now 8800 generation.
Bottom line is , if you feel having gpu that is 2 generations behind PC top of the line is Okay , then yes , apple is doing better than "benchmarks jockeys" say.
With Apple you get a more conservative approach, stable tested and no worries about driver stability. If you want bleeding edge, getting cut on occasion I would recommend a PC but if you want performance/stability/workstation (OS/Hardware) integration you want an Apple.
Wally: the fact remains that the 8800GTX is trash on Windows. It's obvious you're a troll, but it's well known how many problems there's been with NVDA drivers on Vista and XP. Apple tends to stay a little behind the curve because of driver stability problems which are unacceptable on OS X, but gamers tend to live with. What's the top GPU you can get in any Dell workstation? I assure you it's not the 8800GTX.
Maybe *you* should read up before posting with your ass.
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
You're aware that the X1800 was the 7800's competition? The X1900 goes with the 7900GTX.
The current X1900XT in the Mac Pro is 1.5 generations behind the top.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS. BIOS based cards don't work in new Macs, but most any EFI card would. If Vista had EFI like was planned almost every card that is out would work in a Mac because they would all be using EFI.
This is such a copout.. Apple wants control of everything and anything that gives them control they will do. Plain and simple and btw Vista was never slated to be EFI at the time with 32bit version so no way you can come up with that unless you pull it out of your ass. Apple would do better to go with bios as it does the job just fine and has proven to be stable for how long?
I use bios daily no issues what so ever. And in reality I would not touch EFI with a 10ft pole.
Ohh well when leopard comes out... finally... I am quite sure that it will either be installable on beige boxes or hacked to do it. Slam a apple sticker on the side of the computer "boom" complied with EULA apple labeled box.
I want the graphics card I want in my machine. Its not good enough just for apple to offer "generic" 6800GS I want a XFX 6800GS for example and the XXX version. Or I want the 8800GTS XFX XXX version. Double lifetime warranty transferable with a company that is nice. Options are what makes the PC market grow and people like options.
This is such a copout.. Apple wants control of everything and anything that gives them control they will do. .
I don't think that apple is that evil it is just that they are EFI and the video cards need EFI rom's to work in osx you may be able to flash a pc card with a efi + bios rom but then it may be to big for the rom chip. Thinks where the same way with PPC and OF
I think think that apple is that evil it is just that they are EFI and the video cards need EFI rom's to work in osx you may be able to flash a pc card with a efi + bios rom but then it may be to big for the rom chip. Thinks where the same way with PPC and OF
Yeah... Flash it void thy warranty. Yep just what I want to do
If apple used bios.. I think the hackintosh community proved it already they use a unified driver on OSX just like Windows or Linux. And also they proved that EFI is a smokescreen if you were to read through the posts.
There is alot of good that comes out of that community for news reporting and I find it very interesting.
I think it speaks mountains. As well as this http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Titan of course I have no idea if these people are telling the truth on the cards they are running but I suspect they are. The thing that is amazing about these things is that apple could very well be running these same cards... but they chose not too cause they want control..
Without this control they lose their coveted "hardware vendor" name and become a software vendor. They could no longer charge 699$ for a 20 inch display when a samsung slams it into the floor for 250$ same size
They could no longer sell the 7300 for 150$ when in reality they are 50$ and so forth this is what happens when you control the hardware as tight as apple does. Their costs are much higher for a lesser product I think..
With apple to get your computer covered you have to buy applecare.. However if i go buy a opteron CPU I get 3 year warranty. if I buy a XFX card I get lifetime warranty. If I buy GSkill Ram or many others Lifetime if I buy a WD-RE drive I get 5 year warranty. Notice how all this adds up.
Now for the G5 iMac I own I got 1 year warranty then had to pay for 2 years with applecare.
I think you can see that my components from the "PEEEEEECEEEE" side have much more value for their cost. regardless if they fail they can be replaced and will be replaced. At a lesser cost to me..
I prefer bios its simple, it works, its time tested, nothing is wrong with it. And not to mention that that GIANT userbase that is out there running Windows all use bios. Something has to be working right and not with EFI. Besides I hate intel does that count?
Comments
If the Mac pro is too expensive now I really doubt new one will be any cheaper.
I'm sure you're right. BUT, a new 24" iMac with, say a 7900GTX 512 Mb or an X1950XTX....
I can dream can't I?
Rich 8)
You really dont know much about the subject at hand , so if i were you i'd read up on it.
Bottom line is Apple is about 2 generations behind at the end of their update cycle and they were already one generation behind when they finally shipped 1900s.
So answer to OP question is - Definately YES. No questions about it.
No, they're half a generation behind ATI, and one generation behind NVIDIA. You can't add up one generation from each manufacturer that they sell, and say that they're that many generations behind. That's just stupid.
However, even saying they're a generation behind is a little unfair—the 8800 came out what, November? So they're three months behind. That's hardly lagging.
While I won't defend Apple's lack of choices regarding GPUs and they should do better on this front, the picture you're trying to paint just isn't true.
No, they're half a generation behind ATI, and one generation behind NVIDIA. You can't add up one generation from each manufacturer that they sell, and say that they're that many generations behind. That's just stupid.
However, even saying they're a generation behind is a little unfair?the 8800 came out what, November? So they're three months behind. That's hardly lagging.
While I won't defend Apple's lack of choices regarding GPUs and they should do better on this front, the picture you're trying to paint just isn't true.
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
You can't redefine terminology to make a point.
NVIDIA's GeForce 7 Series is a generation. NVIDIA's GeForce 8 Series is a generation.
The 7950, though having come out a whopping 3 months after the 7800, is still part of the 7th generation.
You can't redefine terminology to make a point.
NVIDIA's GeForce 7 Series is a generation. NVIDIA's GeForce 8 Series is a generation.
The 7950, though having come out a whopping 3 months after the 7800, is still part of the 7th generation.
Dont let facts stop you. 7800GTX release date Jun 2005 and GeForce 7950 GX2 June 2006 (Retail).
Dont let facts stop you. 7800GTX release date Jun 2005 and GeForce 7950 GX2 June 2006 (Retail).
You're right, I was looking at the 7900 release date.
Point remains, you're making up generations left and right.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS. BIOS based cards don't work in new Macs, but most any EFI card would. If Vista had EFI like was planned almost every card that is out would work in a Mac because they would all be using EFI.
So, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using EFI or BIOS (aside form the fact that the latest cards are only available for systems using BIOS)? Also, do you think micosoft will make the BIOS-to-EFI transition, and if so, when?
So, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using EFI or BIOS (aside form the fact that the latest cards are only available for systems using BIOS)? Also, do you think micosoft will make the BIOS-to-EFI transition, and if so, when?
I don't think Microsoft will make a transition because of OS X. They are scared, and they will try to use everything they can to keep Macs out of the hands of those who would switch if they had that one little thing. And this is one of those little things that will keep another small percentage using all Microsoft products. Even though most switchers will also be running a copy of Vista on a Mac anyway IMO. They will need to retain their safety net. The "Just in case" factor.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS.
I think gonna cry! Or go spray paint some MS property - GRR! Microsuck makes me so mad! Do they have nothing better to do than to hurt consumers?!
Hopefully Intel will be able to help Apple a bit on the EFI... I think I remember reading somewhere how ripped at MS Intel was when MS chose IBM for the xbox, and I think I read Intel would like to promote EFI. Anyone else read this and think Intel might be able to help Apple in the EFI promotion?
I'm yet to try this, but really hope that it's true. I don't know whether he was making a certain number of assumptions and not taking BIOS / EFI into account, but if there's anyone in a position to give this a go they should let us know the outcome.
in my opinion yes apple is patheticly behind in gpu depatment. their highest consumer gpu at the moment is 1900xt.
pc world has 1900 xtx , 1950 generation , and now 8800 generation.
Bottom line is , if you feel having gpu that is 2 generations behind PC top of the line is Okay , then yes , apple is doing better than "benchmarks jockeys" say.
With Apple you get a more conservative approach, stable tested and no worries about driver stability. If you want bleeding edge, getting cut on occasion I would recommend a PC but if you want performance/stability/workstation (OS/Hardware) integration you want an Apple.
Maybe *you* should read up before posting with your ass.
What do you mean it isnt true ? 1900 is equal to 7800. So 1950/7900 - 7950 generation is ONE and 8800 GTX and GTS is another generation. I didnt say they were two generations behind in ATI's line up. I said they're two generations behind PC mnf's line ups that includes nVidia.
Not to mention that Apple's flavor of 1900 isnt even XTX....
You're aware that the X1800 was the 7800's competition? The X1900 goes with the 7900GTX.
The current X1900XT in the Mac Pro is 1.5 generations behind the top.
The problem: Microsoft. They new Apple was using next generation EFI instead of BIOS, and MS was going to as well, but they saw that Apple was gaining momentum in all fields so they decided to stick with BIOS. BIOS based cards don't work in new Macs, but most any EFI card would. If Vista had EFI like was planned almost every card that is out would work in a Mac because they would all be using EFI.
This is such a copout.. Apple wants control of everything and anything that gives them control they will do. Plain and simple and btw Vista was never slated to be EFI at the time with 32bit version so no way you can come up with that unless you pull it out of your ass. Apple would do better to go with bios as it does the job just fine and has proven to be stable for how long?
I use bios daily no issues what so ever. And in reality I would not touch EFI with a 10ft pole.
Ohh well when leopard comes out... finally... I am quite sure that it will either be installable on beige boxes or hacked to do it. Slam a apple sticker on the side of the computer "boom" complied with EULA apple labeled box.
I want the graphics card I want in my machine. Its not good enough just for apple to offer "generic" 6800GS I want a XFX 6800GS for example and the XXX version. Or I want the 8800GTS XFX XXX version. Double lifetime warranty transferable with a company that is nice. Options are what makes the PC market grow and people like options.
This is such a copout.. Apple wants control of everything and anything that gives them control they will do. .
I don't think that apple is that evil it is just that they are EFI and the video cards need EFI rom's to work in osx you may be able to flash a pc card with a efi + bios rom but then it may be to big for the rom chip. Thinks where the same way with PPC and OF
And in reality I would not touch EFI with a 10ft pole.
And your reasons for that are??
I think think that apple is that evil it is just that they are EFI and the video cards need EFI rom's to work in osx you may be able to flash a pc card with a efi + bios rom but then it may be to big for the rom chip. Thinks where the same way with PPC and OF
Yeah... Flash it void thy warranty. Yep just what I want to do
If apple used bios.. I think the hackintosh community proved it already they use a unified driver on OSX just like Windows or Linux. And also they proved that EFI is a smokescreen if you were to read through the posts.
There is alot of good that comes out of that community for news reporting and I find it very interesting.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=247682
I think it speaks mountains. As well as this http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Titan of course I have no idea if these people are telling the truth on the cards they are running but I suspect they are. The thing that is amazing about these things is that apple could very well be running these same cards... but they chose not too cause they want control..
Without this control they lose their coveted "hardware vendor" name and become a software vendor. They could no longer charge 699$ for a 20 inch display when a samsung slams it into the floor for 250$ same size
They could no longer sell the 7300 for 150$ when in reality they are 50$ and so forth this is what happens when you control the hardware as tight as apple does. Their costs are much higher for a lesser product I think..
With apple to get your computer covered you have to buy applecare.. However if i go buy a opteron CPU I get 3 year warranty. if I buy a XFX card I get lifetime warranty. If I buy GSkill Ram or many others Lifetime if I buy a WD-RE drive I get 5 year warranty. Notice how all this adds up.
Now for the G5 iMac I own I got 1 year warranty then had to pay for 2 years with applecare.
I think you can see that my components from the "PEEEEEECEEEE" side have much more value for their cost. regardless if they fail they can be replaced and will be replaced. At a lesser cost to me..
And your reasons for that are…?
Beacause it was made by intel to push DRM on the masses.. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-992425.html there is one article kinda old though.
I prefer bios its simple, it works, its time tested, nothing is wrong with it. And not to mention that that GIANT userbase that is out there running Windows all use bios. Something has to be working right and not with EFI. Besides I hate intel does that count?
Beacause it was made by intel to push DRM on the masses.. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-992425.html there is one article kinda old though.
Doesn't matter, since Apple doesn't employ that technique, and on newer Macs doesn't even leave the option open.
Besides I hate intel does that count?
No, that's just you being a kid.