You know, DeaPeaJay, I think you're on to something.
When combined with Apple's backdating scandal that includes minutes from a meeting that never actually occurred, Stossel's heavily edited and incomplete-info hatchet job on America's teachers does indeed put him and Jobs on the same page: the DECEPTION page. Jobs apparently banked on the government being stupid, and Stossel apparently banked on the television-viewing public being stupid. In case you haven't watched this poor excuse for a documentary, you can click here to see it for yourself. Pay attention and watch with a critical eye.
...he blames all problems with American education on those lazy public-school teachers. Because, really, all teachers are just as they are portrayed on television, right?
STOSSEL: "We gave parts of an international test to some high school students in Belgium and in New Jersey...the Belgian kids cleaned their clocks."
[...]
[Stossel] says he gave “parts of an international test” to these two groups of students [in the U.S. and Belgium] —but he never says what the test was. In the same vein, he never gives us any way to judge who these two groups of kids really are. In the case of the American students, he says they attend an above-average school—but that, of course, doesn’t mean that the students themselves are above average. (Nor can we verify his claim about their school, since he never names it.) And how about the Belgian students? How average (or above-average) might they be? There is absolutely no way to know. Stossel says nothing about them or their school; they may be the brightest students in Belgium, attending that nation’s most selective school. In short, this episode is like a ludicrous parody of the way information is actually gained. It’s astounding to think that ABC News would even consider airing such nonsense. Indeed, if it’s “Stupid in America” you want, the names of this show’s producers—and its clowning correspondent—should go at the top of your list.
Indeed, how cosmically dumb is John Stossel—and how dumb does he take his viewers to be?
[...]
I'm more confident with Stossel's testing than with those links to clearly biased, uninformed sources.
I'm more confident with Stossel's testing than with those links to clearly biased, uninformed sources.
After all, Stossel is such an unbiased, informed source himself (yeah, right)...Nobody in the mainstream media bothered to call him on his flawed reporting, but the points made by those being linked to are valid. Just because something is on TV doesn't automatically make it accurate and fair. Stossel is notorious for this kind of skewed reporting, and he banks on people taking it hook, line and sinker.
The big problem is unions and government together. Unions shouldn't have their whims codified in law, and, of course, schools shouldn't be run by government. Fix those two things, and, hey--there's nothing wrong with unions. It's a lot like communism. Communism is fine unless the communists are given the power to force others to play by their rules.
After all, Stossel is such an unbiased, informed source himself (yeah, right)...Nobody in the mainstream media bothered to call him on his flawed reporting, but the points made by those being linked to are valid. Just because something is on TV doesn't automatically make it accurate and fair. Stossel is notorious for this kind of skewed reporting, and he banks on people taking it hook, line and sinker.
Liberals loved Stossel when he was only attacking corporations. Since he woke up and figured out government was just as much a problem as corporations, they suddenly think he's the devil. Funny how they turn on their own.
Are you kidding? My kids had school today, and my wife had to teach as well. Any more most of these"holidays" are just reasons for the banks and post office to close. Everyone else still has to work.
Sorry. I don't make the rules or make up the schedule for my district. I promise I will teach the same amount of days if not more. I start in August and finish on June 28th.
It's also a NATIONAL holiday. I'm sure your wife gets some Kasmir Pulaski day off or some other obscure holiday.
I've read a good number of these posts, and I have recognized the wide variety of perspectives on this board. What I have noticed, however, is a lack of true authority. Only a couple of people I have read are speaking from experience on this topic.
I am a young teacher finishing my third year of teaching. My father is a teaching veteran of 34 years and counting. Here's the reality of teaching in MY life, and it is not as pleasant or as equal as some may wish to persuade others to believe.
...
But the trade-off would be the 7.3 hours I was contracted to work, the 3 hours I spent coaching, and the 2 hours I spent every night writing lesson plans and researching. THAT WAS EVERY DAY. Not once in awhile. Every single day I did that.
Dude...the 1st few years of years teaching sucks. You have no lesson plans in the can. You're still new at the job learning all the stuff they didn't teach in school. Switching districts doesn't put you back at square 0 but it does mean a lot of rework of lesson plans you do have.
But over the total teaching career that's very little.
Quote:
With the in-service days we had before the school year, I worked about 2200 hours this last year. I made approximately $22/hour. That is a very low wage for a college graduate with 3 degrees, in my opinion. But, that's just me. You don't have to believe me, but then again, many of you aren't living that life.
Yeah...fine. Tell that to my wife with a PhD in Chemistry that started out as a GS-11 and currently has a base salary of around 50-60K (I forget) before cost of living adjustments. 3 BS degrees do not equal a MS much less a PhD. Why do you think its particularly noteworthy?
Here's a clue...in a hard science with a MS you get to be a technician and you often start earning crap too. Entry grade for a meaningful job in your field is a PhD. To get to that point try providing for a family on a post-doc's salary much less a grad student stipend.
And don't even get me started on my hourly rate starting out after college with the uncompensated OT of a salaried employee. We pulled all nighters and slept in the office during crunch time. We probably made less per hour than flipping burgers.
Quote:
I work in a very small rural high school of approximately 80 kids. So let's take a single tested class of roughly 20 students.
Man, you have it tough. Try class sizes closer to 30. My ex's first year as a teacher had 29 in her class including 2 special eds. Fortunately with an special ed aide. Mainstreaming sucks IMHO but I digress. Yah, and she also had a "difficult" principal her first year but hey...at least she was at a safe elementary school. The elementary school she did student teaching had bars, metal detectors and security guards.
So paint me unimpressed with your "true authority". We don't have to BE teachers to have lived through parts of it and be aware of the issues facing teachers. I also don't believe that Jobs is completely unaware either. Especially given his wife co-founded College Track to help poorer kids make it into college.
This one is amusing...Belgium spends 5.97% of their GDP on public schools vs 4.66% in the US...so who spends more...never mind that Belgium has a per capita GDP lower than the US (29 vs 37). I think we spend more both in terms of absolute and per capita.
And what test did the guy think would be fair? A US test or an international one? And notice the Belgian kids were speaking English. How many American kids can speak Dutch? At least some can speak French. And it wasn't just the Belgian kids...the US ranked 25 on the tests...behind Poland and the Czech Republic...
Dude...the 1st few years of years teaching sucks. You have no lesson plans in the can. You're still new at the job learning all the stuff they didn't teach in school. Switching districts doesn't put you back at square 0 but it does mean a lot of rework of lesson plans you do have.
You are absolutely correct. I have no lesson plans early on and it makes it difficult. My father (again, a veteran of 34 years) is still starting from scratch. If you do the same thing over and over, you end up in a rut and lose innovation. And I did start from scratch because I went from a middle school to a high school, so all of my curriculum was rendered obsolete.
Quote:
Yeah...fine. Tell that to my wife with a PhD in Chemistry that started out as a GS-11 and currently has a base salary of around 50-60K (I forget) before cost of living adjustments. 3 BS degrees do not equal a MS much less a PhD. Why do you think its particularly noteworthy?
That's very impressive for her to earn a PhD. I, too, will have a PhD in the future (I'm currently working on my Master's). I'm sorry you feel that three BA's mean nothing, but last time I checked, that places me in probably the top 15% or higher among educated Americans. Besides, I haven't LIVED long enough to get my PhD yet. To pass judgment on someone who hasn't had the opportunity to earn one seems rather hasty to me.
Quote:
Here's a clue...in a hard science with a MS you get to be a technician and you often start earning crap too. Entry grade for a meaningful job in your field is a PhD. To get to that point try providing for a family on a post-doc's salary much less a grad student stipend.
And don't even get me started on my hourly rate starting out after college with the uncompensated OT of a salaried employee. We pulled all nighters and slept in the office during crunch time. We probably made less per hour than flipping burgers.
I am sure the field is difficult, and I'm not saying any other fields are not. That is not the point here. The point here is on teachers. Do I think techs should get more money? Absolutely! Why not? I'm not saying the teachers are the only ones getting underpaid. And we all have to pay our dues, but where does your salary range max out at? For my district, $60k is the most I'll ever get, and that's with 20+ years experience AND a PhD. The only way to boost that is administration.
Quote:
Man, you have it tough. Try class sizes closer to 30. My ex's first year as a teacher had 29 in her class including 2 special eds. Fortunately with an special ed aide. Mainstreaming sucks IMHO but I digress. Yah, and she also had a "difficult" principal her first year but hey...at least she was at a safe elementary school. The elementary school she did student teaching had bars, metal detectors and security guards.
I neglected to mention that my previous school was located in a larger area. I had, on average, about 150 kids my first year, with as many as six students with special needs in one class (with limited paraeducator assistance). While we didn't have metal detectors, we had security and such. I had several students moved INTO my classroom because they had threatened to kill teachers and students, primarily because I had no disciplinary problems in my room. I also had a couple of gang members in my classes, several busted for drugs, etc. I got along with most of them, but it does make everyday interesting. I apologize for leaving out that bit of info.
Quote:
So paint me unimpressed with your "true authority". We don't have to BE teachers to have lived through parts of it and be aware of the issues facing teachers. I also don't believe that Jobs is completely unaware either. Especially given his wife co-founded College Track to help poorer kids make it into college.
Vinea
Again, this is merely the humble opinion of a single teacher. I claim to be no true authority of anything other than my own life. However, I would say I have a far better understanding of education and its problems than most people. To argue otherwise is like someone trying to tell a soldier about the war in Iraq. While a drastic analogy, I'm confident that living the issue is more authoritative than any other view, although I would agree that perspectives may be skewed and biased to some degree. And everyone has some foothold in the topic, being we have all attended school. However, being the face at the front of the room rather than in the seat does change many perceptions and beliefs of the world of education. I apologize if this is not an adequate or valid stance to consider. Thank you!
This one is amusing...Belgium spends 5.97% of their GDP on public schools vs 4.66% in the US...so who spends more...never mind that Belgium has a per capita GDP lower than the US (29 vs 37). I think we spend more both in terms of absolute and per capita.
And what test did the guy think would be fair? A US test or an international one? And notice the Belgian kids were speaking English. How many American kids can speak Dutch? At least some can speak French. And it wasn't just the Belgian kids...the US ranked 25 on the tests...behind Poland and the Czech Republic...
Vinea
While I agree with most of this, particularly the fact that European students learn at least two, if not more, languages in school, this is a bit skewed from my understanding. I fully believe that European students are better overall academically. I can vouch for this from several European students I have had the privilege of teaching. However, schools in Europe track their students. This would account for the roughly equal scoring at 4th grade. It is at this approximate time that European schools begin to track students into future occupations. Students that test lower will likely move on to trade schools. Higher achieving students will move on to more rigorous education, and those that continue to succeed will move on to elite professions such as engineering, science, medicine, etc. The students tested in the documentary would likely be some of the brightest Dutch kids around, although this could be mistaken on my part. In America, we teach EVERYONE, despite ability level. Kids that would have been tracked (a large portion of our students) would not be tested. This means our scores will naturally be lower being we test everyone, not just those that have been tracked. If I were to pit them against my AP students, I'm sure they would fair relatively the same. When the American students were asked about causes for the Civil War and the purpose of the Bill of Rights, I can confidently guarantee my students would be able to address those questions adequately. To see the "best" students of that particular school unable to answer those questions is appalling. Most of my AP students could talk for at least 45 minutes on the causes for the Civil War AND be able to relate it to modern politics and policy (I know this because we did!). Spending won't solve anything, like they said. This affirms that there are some very poor teachers out there. But this also affirms that the "test" they provided in the film was not as accurate as we might suspect. Thank you!
Wikipedia is the greatest thing that has ever happened in the advancement of information since the original encyclopedia.
It is up to date information, coming from numerous different sources. All overseen by a large group of people. It has become my #1 research site for all my projects and anything I just want to know.
Plus what Steve was pointing out was not using wikipedia but wikischool more to say. Think of the amount of money that would be saved on text books and it would always be up to date. Though for wikischool to succeed there would need to be a subscription or overseen by the government.
I believe they did a study I saw recently that compared the technical topics -- things that can be verifed or proven false easily. Wikipedia was more up-to-date than the leading encyclopedias, and had as few errors as the very best of them. The softer topics that get into areas of controversy are more difficult, as one school or other tends to get control of a topic, then there's an ideological battle you often see waged. In the meantime, you have less that objective information. However, if you're reading about something controversial, like Salvador Allende, for instance, isn't it better to have the article initially written by a liberal challenged by conservatives, and for the student to see the argument taking place? One side says that Allende was about to end democracy, another says he was about to hold a referendum, etc. It's most important for students to see the struggles of history.
"Once, Klein reports, the school system discovered that a teacher was sending sexual e-mails to a 16-year-old student. "This was the most unbelievable case to me," he says, "because the e-mail was there, he admitted to it. It was so thoroughly offensive." Even with the teacher's confession, it took six years of expensive litigation before the school could fire him. He didn't teach during those six years, but he still got paid?more than $350,000 total. "
This union is not only harming are kids education, it's endangering them.
I'm considering teaching, it may be my only viable option with just an upcoming bachelors degree in physics. I plan to earn a masters of education whilsts I teach. I didn't go to college to make $60 an hour when I finished, but to make sure I make more than $5 an hour. I suppose I could get a job doing data entry typing the characteristics of the reflectivity of Indium-42 all day but that would be awful, plain awful. It's quite depressing how difficult a physics degree is to obtain over other majors and how little it can get you. Ya, I planned to get a PhD in physics originally, but reality will be preventing that. I'm stuck in a no mans land if I dont choose teaching. The BA today is the new high school degree, nice to have but nothing that much to feel too good about.
Dont get me wrong, I am not downing teaching. I think its my most worthwhile option and I love tutoring and explaining physics. I figure that physics may be one of the better disciplines to teach - more fun science toys, more ambitious students and splendid security. The truth of the matter is that no job is perfect. I do realize it is work, it is not fun-time and that students can bring stress to my life by talking over me, playing with their ipods and phones but the other alternative seems much worse.
If there were no linux or Mac operating Systems out there, Windows would have a complete monopoly. Now who here thinks that's a good thing? They would become even more bloated and lazy then they already are, with no desire to improve the quality of their product. MS absolutely NEEDS competition or else they'll stagnate.
Well the same thing happens when the government tries to regulate the school system and make them all equal by requiring students attend the school in their district, even if it is a bad school, parents have no choice but to send their kids there. It gives each and every school a total monopoly and they do just what a business would do. They stagnate! The only way to get past the problems with the teacher's union is to make the schools compete with each other. Bad schools with bad teachers would lose all their students and the school would die unless they improved their quality. Teachers would have to shape up because they may not be able to be fired, but they can lose their job if the school shuts down.
Write to your congressman and tell them this, it's the only way that I can see to save the education system in America. And stop feeding the kids junk at the cafeteria too.
Write to your congressman and tell them this, it's the only way that I can see to save the education system in America. And stop feeding the kids junk at the cafeteria too.
In my school, 100% of the students obtain free meals. This includes breakfast, snack, lunch, and after-school snack. Taxpayers pay for it all. Are you willing to quadruple your taxes to pay for prime rib for each of these meals? I think not.
And no, our school is not in a rundown or poor area. It's in Los Angeles district, and our students also get free daycare. Why? Because the majority of my student's parents are here illegally and don't pay for much of anything. They get welfare, free daycare, free meals and supplies for their children (yes, we even must supply paper, pens, notebooks, workbooks, and everything else for free). While I agree that this type of program is needed for some low-income families, the illegal immigrants are absolutely milking the system dry here in CA.
After school, I have to walk my students out to get picked up (those that don't stay for day care). When their parents drive up in $60k+ SUVs or a Lexus, it's pretty ridiculous. A very sad situation. Their parents take no responsibility for them, they never do homework, and in turn, don't learn much of anything. Is that my fault?? ABSOLUTELY not. A teacher can only do so much with what they are given, especially when the parents don't give a crap about them.
Bush isn't the best conservative ever, and I'm not a fan of the Feds dictating to the states, but at least the NCLB act was a stab at something; again, more than ANYONE has done to date. You can talk about how Bush didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, how it is too "inside the box," and etc etc....but at the end of the day, if more children are reading better and doing math better, then I'm perfectly happy to "teach to the test." It'd be one thing if it was a 10 question test and we only gave them 10 facts, but we're teaching them skills here.....if "teaching to the test" means imparting useful skills, then I'm all for it.
NCLB is pure bullshit. Underfunded and actually a bad idea. Students should be evaluated on their knowlwedge and if inadequate they should be held back. Why do we graduate students with marginal skills in math and reading? Public schools have a manadate of taking on all comers and getting them out of the system by age 18. That's the flaw.
Public schools have a manadate of taking on all comers and getting them out of the system by age 18. That's the flaw.
Agreed. At least in CA, a student can't be held back more than once. So even if he is in 6th grade and cannot read, if he's been held back before, he goes on regardless.
In my school, 100% of the students obtain free meals. This includes breakfast, snack, lunch, and after-school snack. Taxpayers pay for it all. Are you willing to quadruple your taxes to pay for prime rib for each of these meals? I think not.
Well that's not really what I meant. By junk I mean take out all pop machines, junk food, and serve them actual real nutritious foods. Preferably not pre-packaged chemical filled garbage. But just take all the junk food out and that's a good start. There are schools that do it. It wouldn't cost anymore than what they're already paying if they just put the energy into it. Kids perform better in school when they eat better.
Comments
You know, DeaPeaJay, I think you're on to something.
When combined with Apple's backdating scandal that includes minutes from a meeting that never actually occurred, Stossel's heavily edited and incomplete-info hatchet job on America's teachers does indeed put him and Jobs on the same page: the DECEPTION page. Jobs apparently banked on the government being stupid, and Stossel apparently banked on the television-viewing public being stupid. In case you haven't watched this poor excuse for a documentary, you can click here to see it for yourself. Pay attention and watch with a critical eye.
Looks Like Stossel Is "Stupid in America"
By Ezra Klein Stupid is as John Stossel does. Here—let ABC prove it
By Bob Somerby
I'm more confident with Stossel's testing than with those links to clearly biased, uninformed sources.
I'm more confident with Stossel's testing than with those links to clearly biased, uninformed sources.
After all, Stossel is such an unbiased, informed source himself (yeah, right)...Nobody in the mainstream media bothered to call him on his flawed reporting, but the points made by those being linked to are valid. Just because something is on TV doesn't automatically make it accurate and fair. Stossel is notorious for this kind of skewed reporting, and he banks on people taking it hook, line and sinker.
After all, Stossel is such an unbiased, informed source himself (yeah, right)...Nobody in the mainstream media bothered to call him on his flawed reporting, but the points made by those being linked to are valid. Just because something is on TV doesn't automatically make it accurate and fair. Stossel is notorious for this kind of skewed reporting, and he banks on people taking it hook, line and sinker.
Liberals loved Stossel when he was only attacking corporations. Since he woke up and figured out government was just as much a problem as corporations, they suddenly think he's the devil. Funny how they turn on their own.
Are you kidding? My kids had school today, and my wife had to teach as well. Any more most of these"holidays" are just reasons for the banks and post office to close. Everyone else still has to work.
Sorry. I don't make the rules or make up the schedule for my district. I promise I will teach the same amount of days if not more. I start in August and finish on June 28th.
It's also a NATIONAL holiday. I'm sure your wife gets some Kasmir Pulaski day off or some other obscure holiday.
SHUT UP
I've read a good number of these posts, and I have recognized the wide variety of perspectives on this board. What I have noticed, however, is a lack of true authority. Only a couple of people I have read are speaking from experience on this topic.
I am a young teacher finishing my third year of teaching. My father is a teaching veteran of 34 years and counting. Here's the reality of teaching in MY life, and it is not as pleasant or as equal as some may wish to persuade others to believe.
...
But the trade-off would be the 7.3 hours I was contracted to work, the 3 hours I spent coaching, and the 2 hours I spent every night writing lesson plans and researching. THAT WAS EVERY DAY. Not once in awhile. Every single day I did that.
Dude...the 1st few years of years teaching sucks. You have no lesson plans in the can. You're still new at the job learning all the stuff they didn't teach in school. Switching districts doesn't put you back at square 0 but it does mean a lot of rework of lesson plans you do have.
But over the total teaching career that's very little.
With the in-service days we had before the school year, I worked about 2200 hours this last year. I made approximately $22/hour. That is a very low wage for a college graduate with 3 degrees, in my opinion. But, that's just me. You don't have to believe me, but then again, many of you aren't living that life.
Yeah...fine. Tell that to my wife with a PhD in Chemistry that started out as a GS-11 and currently has a base salary of around 50-60K (I forget) before cost of living adjustments. 3 BS degrees do not equal a MS much less a PhD. Why do you think its particularly noteworthy?
Here's a clue...in a hard science with a MS you get to be a technician and you often start earning crap too. Entry grade for a meaningful job in your field is a PhD. To get to that point try providing for a family on a post-doc's salary much less a grad student stipend.
And don't even get me started on my hourly rate starting out after college with the uncompensated OT of a salaried employee. We pulled all nighters and slept in the office during crunch time. We probably made less per hour than flipping burgers.
I work in a very small rural high school of approximately 80 kids. So let's take a single tested class of roughly 20 students.
Man, you have it tough. Try class sizes closer to 30. My ex's first year as a teacher had 29 in her class including 2 special eds. Fortunately with an special ed aide. Mainstreaming sucks IMHO but I digress. Yah, and she also had a "difficult" principal her first year but hey...at least she was at a safe elementary school. The elementary school she did student teaching had bars, metal detectors and security guards.
So paint me unimpressed with your "true authority". We don't have to BE teachers to have lived through parts of it and be aware of the issues facing teachers. I also don't believe that Jobs is completely unaware either. Especially given his wife co-founded College Track to help poorer kids make it into college.
Vinea
Looks Like Stossel Is "Stupid in America"
By Ezra Klein
This one is amusing...Belgium spends 5.97% of their GDP on public schools vs 4.66% in the US...so who spends more...never mind that Belgium has a per capita GDP lower than the US (29 vs 37). I think we spend more both in terms of absolute and per capita.
And what test did the guy think would be fair? A US test or an international one? And notice the Belgian kids were speaking English. How many American kids can speak Dutch? At least some can speak French. And it wasn't just the Belgian kids...the US ranked 25 on the tests...behind Poland and the Czech Republic...
Vinea
Dude...the 1st few years of years teaching sucks. You have no lesson plans in the can. You're still new at the job learning all the stuff they didn't teach in school. Switching districts doesn't put you back at square 0 but it does mean a lot of rework of lesson plans you do have.
You are absolutely correct. I have no lesson plans early on and it makes it difficult. My father (again, a veteran of 34 years) is still starting from scratch. If you do the same thing over and over, you end up in a rut and lose innovation. And I did start from scratch because I went from a middle school to a high school, so all of my curriculum was rendered obsolete.
Yeah...fine. Tell that to my wife with a PhD in Chemistry that started out as a GS-11 and currently has a base salary of around 50-60K (I forget) before cost of living adjustments. 3 BS degrees do not equal a MS much less a PhD. Why do you think its particularly noteworthy?
That's very impressive for her to earn a PhD. I, too, will have a PhD in the future (I'm currently working on my Master's). I'm sorry you feel that three BA's mean nothing, but last time I checked, that places me in probably the top 15% or higher among educated Americans. Besides, I haven't LIVED long enough to get my PhD yet. To pass judgment on someone who hasn't had the opportunity to earn one seems rather hasty to me.
Here's a clue...in a hard science with a MS you get to be a technician and you often start earning crap too. Entry grade for a meaningful job in your field is a PhD. To get to that point try providing for a family on a post-doc's salary much less a grad student stipend.
And don't even get me started on my hourly rate starting out after college with the uncompensated OT of a salaried employee. We pulled all nighters and slept in the office during crunch time. We probably made less per hour than flipping burgers.
I am sure the field is difficult, and I'm not saying any other fields are not. That is not the point here. The point here is on teachers. Do I think techs should get more money? Absolutely! Why not? I'm not saying the teachers are the only ones getting underpaid. And we all have to pay our dues, but where does your salary range max out at? For my district, $60k is the most I'll ever get, and that's with 20+ years experience AND a PhD. The only way to boost that is administration.
Man, you have it tough. Try class sizes closer to 30. My ex's first year as a teacher had 29 in her class including 2 special eds. Fortunately with an special ed aide. Mainstreaming sucks IMHO but I digress. Yah, and she also had a "difficult" principal her first year but hey...at least she was at a safe elementary school. The elementary school she did student teaching had bars, metal detectors and security guards.
I neglected to mention that my previous school was located in a larger area. I had, on average, about 150 kids my first year, with as many as six students with special needs in one class (with limited paraeducator assistance). While we didn't have metal detectors, we had security and such. I had several students moved INTO my classroom because they had threatened to kill teachers and students, primarily because I had no disciplinary problems in my room. I also had a couple of gang members in my classes, several busted for drugs, etc. I got along with most of them, but it does make everyday interesting. I apologize for leaving out that bit of info.
So paint me unimpressed with your "true authority". We don't have to BE teachers to have lived through parts of it and be aware of the issues facing teachers. I also don't believe that Jobs is completely unaware either. Especially given his wife co-founded College Track to help poorer kids make it into college.
Vinea
Again, this is merely the humble opinion of a single teacher. I claim to be no true authority of anything other than my own life. However, I would say I have a far better understanding of education and its problems than most people. To argue otherwise is like someone trying to tell a soldier about the war in Iraq. While a drastic analogy, I'm confident that living the issue is more authoritative than any other view, although I would agree that perspectives may be skewed and biased to some degree. And everyone has some foothold in the topic, being we have all attended school. However, being the face at the front of the room rather than in the seat does change many perceptions and beliefs of the world of education. I apologize if this is not an adequate or valid stance to consider. Thank you!
This one is amusing...Belgium spends 5.97% of their GDP on public schools vs 4.66% in the US...so who spends more...never mind that Belgium has a per capita GDP lower than the US (29 vs 37). I think we spend more both in terms of absolute and per capita.
And what test did the guy think would be fair? A US test or an international one? And notice the Belgian kids were speaking English. How many American kids can speak Dutch? At least some can speak French. And it wasn't just the Belgian kids...the US ranked 25 on the tests...behind Poland and the Czech Republic...
Vinea
While I agree with most of this, particularly the fact that European students learn at least two, if not more, languages in school, this is a bit skewed from my understanding. I fully believe that European students are better overall academically. I can vouch for this from several European students I have had the privilege of teaching. However, schools in Europe track their students. This would account for the roughly equal scoring at 4th grade. It is at this approximate time that European schools begin to track students into future occupations. Students that test lower will likely move on to trade schools. Higher achieving students will move on to more rigorous education, and those that continue to succeed will move on to elite professions such as engineering, science, medicine, etc. The students tested in the documentary would likely be some of the brightest Dutch kids around, although this could be mistaken on my part. In America, we teach EVERYONE, despite ability level. Kids that would have been tracked (a large portion of our students) would not be tested. This means our scores will naturally be lower being we test everyone, not just those that have been tracked. If I were to pit them against my AP students, I'm sure they would fair relatively the same. When the American students were asked about causes for the Civil War and the purpose of the Bill of Rights, I can confidently guarantee my students would be able to address those questions adequately. To see the "best" students of that particular school unable to answer those questions is appalling. Most of my AP students could talk for at least 45 minutes on the causes for the Civil War AND be able to relate it to modern politics and policy (I know this because we did!). Spending won't solve anything, like they said. This affirms that there are some very poor teachers out there. But this also affirms that the "test" they provided in the film was not as accurate as we might suspect. Thank you!
Wooo, wooo, WOOOO.
Wikipedia is the greatest thing that has ever happened in the advancement of information since the original encyclopedia.
It is up to date information, coming from numerous different sources. All overseen by a large group of people. It has become my #1 research site for all my projects and anything I just want to know.
Plus what Steve was pointing out was not using wikipedia but wikischool more to say. Think of the amount of money that would be saved on text books and it would always be up to date. Though for wikischool to succeed there would need to be a subscription or overseen by the government.
I believe they did a study I saw recently that compared the technical topics -- things that can be verifed or proven false easily. Wikipedia was more up-to-date than the leading encyclopedias, and had as few errors as the very best of them. The softer topics that get into areas of controversy are more difficult, as one school or other tends to get control of a topic, then there's an ideological battle you often see waged. In the meantime, you have less that objective information. However, if you're reading about something controversial, like Salvador Allende, for instance, isn't it better to have the article initially written by a liberal challenged by conservatives, and for the student to see the argument taking place? One side says that Allende was about to end democracy, another says he was about to hold a referendum, etc. It's most important for students to see the struggles of history.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/36802.html
You're absolutely right.
From that article:
"Once, Klein reports, the school system discovered that a teacher was sending sexual e-mails to a 16-year-old student. "This was the most unbelievable case to me," he says, "because the e-mail was there, he admitted to it. It was so thoroughly offensive." Even with the teacher's confession, it took six years of expensive litigation before the school could fire him. He didn't teach during those six years, but he still got paid?more than $350,000 total. "
This union is not only harming are kids education, it's endangering them.
Dont get me wrong, I am not downing teaching. I think its my most worthwhile option and I love tutoring and explaining physics. I figure that physics may be one of the better disciplines to teach - more fun science toys, more ambitious students and splendid security. The truth of the matter is that no job is perfect. I do realize it is work, it is not fun-time and that students can bring stress to my life by talking over me, playing with their ipods and phones but the other alternative seems much worse.
The arrogance of the man.
He knows about design and marketing. The end Period.
Can you imagine if this man was in charge of schools?
No curriculum choice. Just the choice of Good, Better and BEST education standards. Not to mention the price.
One day I hope he is sacked again.!.
(though we could use a little levity in this topic!)
Well the same thing happens when the government tries to regulate the school system and make them all equal by requiring students attend the school in their district, even if it is a bad school, parents have no choice but to send their kids there. It gives each and every school a total monopoly and they do just what a business would do. They stagnate! The only way to get past the problems with the teacher's union is to make the schools compete with each other. Bad schools with bad teachers would lose all their students and the school would die unless they improved their quality. Teachers would have to shape up because they may not be able to be fired, but they can lose their job if the school shuts down.
Write to your congressman and tell them this, it's the only way that I can see to save the education system in America. And stop feeding the kids junk at the cafeteria too.
Write to your congressman and tell them this, it's the only way that I can see to save the education system in America. And stop feeding the kids junk at the cafeteria too.
In my school, 100% of the students obtain free meals. This includes breakfast, snack, lunch, and after-school snack. Taxpayers pay for it all. Are you willing to quadruple your taxes to pay for prime rib for each of these meals? I think not.
And no, our school is not in a rundown or poor area. It's in Los Angeles district, and our students also get free daycare. Why? Because the majority of my student's parents are here illegally and don't pay for much of anything. They get welfare, free daycare, free meals and supplies for their children (yes, we even must supply paper, pens, notebooks, workbooks, and everything else for free). While I agree that this type of program is needed for some low-income families, the illegal immigrants are absolutely milking the system dry here in CA.
After school, I have to walk my students out to get picked up (those that don't stay for day care). When their parents drive up in $60k+ SUVs or a Lexus, it's pretty ridiculous. A very sad situation. Their parents take no responsibility for them, they never do homework, and in turn, don't learn much of anything. Is that my fault?? ABSOLUTELY not. A teacher can only do so much with what they are given, especially when the parents don't give a crap about them.
Bush isn't the best conservative ever, and I'm not a fan of the Feds dictating to the states, but at least the NCLB act was a stab at something; again, more than ANYONE has done to date. You can talk about how Bush didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, how it is too "inside the box," and etc etc....but at the end of the day, if more children are reading better and doing math better, then I'm perfectly happy to "teach to the test." It'd be one thing if it was a 10 question test and we only gave them 10 facts, but we're teaching them skills here.....if "teaching to the test" means imparting useful skills, then I'm all for it.
NCLB is pure bullshit. Underfunded and actually a bad idea. Students should be evaluated on their knowlwedge and if inadequate they should be held back. Why do we graduate students with marginal skills in math and reading? Public schools have a manadate of taking on all comers and getting them out of the system by age 18. That's the flaw.
Public schools have a manadate of taking on all comers and getting them out of the system by age 18. That's the flaw.
Agreed. At least in CA, a student can't be held back more than once. So even if he is in 6th grade and cannot read, if he's been held back before, he goes on regardless.
In my school, 100% of the students obtain free meals. This includes breakfast, snack, lunch, and after-school snack. Taxpayers pay for it all. Are you willing to quadruple your taxes to pay for prime rib for each of these meals? I think not.
Well that's not really what I meant. By junk I mean take out all pop machines, junk food, and serve them actual real nutritious foods. Preferably not pre-packaged chemical filled garbage. But just take all the junk food out and that's a good start. There are schools that do it. It wouldn't cost anymore than what they're already paying if they just put the energy into it. Kids perform better in school when they eat better.