I think he's referring more to the fact that Li-ion batteries eventually wear down... after 2 years or about 300 discharge cycles, whichever comes first. Not how good a brand-new iPod's batt is.
The actual spec is 10% degradation after 500 charge cycles. The problem is that a lot of cheap device designers cut corners and allow for the device to draw or charge with too much "burst" current. This causes fracturing at the electrodes which leads to greater internal resistance and hence shorter battery life. Lithium Sulfur batteries have more robust electrodes, and should be showing up in devices fairly soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next
Also, in defense for the Upstage -- it might be joked to be a "iPhone Killer", but as all of you know, it's not. I think the big "iPhone Killer" is in the music store. And it is the exact same price as the Apple Store now -- so you know they are looking at Apple. Also, http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/samsung_upstage/ --> you actually see it in action (even the texting) -- and I gatta say it doesn't look half bad. . . .
Thanks for the link. . . I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get one now, since files from iTunes can be loaded on. That is, you're not bound to the music store.
Thanks for the link. . . I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get one now, since files from iTunes can be loaded on. That is, you're not bound to the music store.
I think the big "iPhone Killer" is in the music store. And it is the exact same price as the Apple Store now -- so you know they are looking at Apple.
The price cut is nice, but it takes a lot more than matching the iTunes price for something to be an 'iTunes killer'. You also need to have a selection as good as the iTMS, strong marketing, and mindshare. On the first, they don't have as many tracks as the iTMS, and points two and three remain to be seen, though I doubt they can market as well as Apple. Most folks can't.
Finally, and unmentioned, is the fact that folks would have to become ga-ga over downloading music OTA. This remains to be seen... the results so far have been fairly poor, but its early days yet.
Quote:
Can you say the iPhone will fit in your pocket easily?
Yes, actually. It's only 2.4 inches wides, and less than a half-inch thick, while being no taller than most smartphones.
The price cut is nice, but it takes a lot more than matching the iTunes price for something to be an 'iTunes killer'. You also need to have a selection as good as the iTMS, strong marketing, and mindshare. On the first, they don't have as many tracks as the iTMS, and points two and three remain to be seen, though I doubt they can market as well as Apple. Most folks can't.
Finally, and unmentioned, is the fact that folks would have to become ga-ga over downloading music OTA. This remains to be seen... the results so far have been fairly poor, but its early days yet.
Yes, actually. It's only 2.4 inches wides, and less than a half-inch thick, while being no taller than most smartphones.
.
I never said it was an iTunes killer, but at the same time you can't download iTunes songs from your iPhone...and on any capable Sprint phone, you can download those songs.
Anyway, then I thought it was bigger. But even still -- is it iPod Nano small? And most of all, is it just simply a phone or an do-it-all phone that costs like 300-500 dollars? I'd rather have a phone that can simply be a phone, and have my songs on it for ring tones. Thats all I want in a phone. And, as it seems, thats what the UpStage is. And other phones (like the Blade from Samsung). Nevertheless, the iPhone still isn't a competitor to the UpStage -- no matter what Sprint says. It's not a smart phone (UpStage) but the iPhone is. Thats like comparing a land line phone to a cell phone. Sure, they both are phones, but some people need land lines (my sister lives out in the mountains....she would need a land line..(lol she doesn't though), however, some people go everywhere and hardly are home. Cell phones are more convenient to those people.
In the same light, if someone will only use their phone for a phone -- then why do they need weather, maps, internet, IM/Text, video/music, and whatever else the iPhone will provide (I heard a rumor it was going to be a shower...lol...thats a joke. YouTube iPhone). However, the UpStage is just a phone with a mp3 player. Some people want that -- others don't. It's all in what your consumer wants.
The actual spec is 10% degradation after 500 charge cycles.
There's really no universally-accepted hard-and-fast 'actual spec', simply because the rate of degradation will vary according to what you do to the battery. For example, Li-ion batteries don't like repeated deep discharges, some temperatures are better than others for them life-wise, storing them with too much or too little charge is bad, not using them regularly is bad, etc. etc.
A more common 'spec' I run into is that Li-ion batteries should last 300 to 500 cycles (which makes sense since it takes into account that people use/treat their batts differently):
For myself, I noted that my iBook's battery started to go decidedly south (degradation of more than 20%) after 330 cycles (# of cycles you can find by going About this Mac--> More Info--> Power). Not bad, but of course I wish it had lasted longer. \
Hey SplineModel, since you know about Lithium Sulphur, what's your take on the new Zinc-Silver batteries due to hit the market soon? A worthy replacement to li-ion tech, or just 'different'?
Yes, you have to use a "flip" button to change sides.
They made it super slim by using a tiny battery, they're claiming "a day" of usage, which probably means an hour of talk time plus music.
But wait! They include a big bulky "battery wallet" that clips onto the phone so you can't use the music side without taking it out! Which gives you average battery time, but now it's a great big phone! With compromised functionality!
I simply can't imagine how buying music on this thing would be anything other that a massive, massive pain in the ass.
Why would I want to buy music on my computer that I plan to put on my phone, as wnurse asked?
Because that's where I can manage my giant library of tunes, with a nice, big interface that lets me make play lists and browse for music in comfort and tweak settings without getting carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then, I can deploy those tunes in a number of ways, using the seamless integration of my Apple set-up: iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, all served by one database, all with their own smart playlists.
Instead of being afraid of these new initiatives, I would think Apple is licking their chops, because it is exactly here-- where hardware and services and integration are needed-- that they are head and shoulders above any product, present or announced, in the cell phone market.
Sure, somebody can match pricing, or put together a not terrible music store, or bring out a decent handset.
But who is going to match the iTMS/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecology? Which cell phone carrier is going to provide a system that lets me integrate my music purchases, rips, MP3 player selections, phone selections, ringtones, pictures, data and home stereo playback?
None of them. Ever. A few might get a few of the pieces, but Apple's steady build out of an integrated consumer digital media ecology is about to start paying off, in spades.
Yes, you have to use a "flip" button to change sides.
They made it super slim by using a tiny battery, they're claiming "a day" of usage, which probably means an hour of talk time plus music.
But wait! They include a big bulky "battery wallet" that clips onto the phone so you can't use the music side without taking it out! Which gives you average battery time, but now it's a great big phone! With compromised functionality!
I simply can't imagine how buying music on this thing would be anything other that a massive, massive pain in the ass.
Why would I want to buy music on my computer that I plan to put on my phone, as wnurse asked?
Because that's where I can manage my giant library of tunes, with a nice, big interface that lets me make play lists and browse for music in comfort and tweak settings without getting carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then, I can deploy those tunes in a number of ways, using the seamless integration of my Apple set-up: iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, all served by one database, all with their own smart playlists.
Instead of being afraid of these new initiatives, I would think Apple is licking their chops, because it is exactly here-- where hardware and services and integration are needed-- that they are head and shoulders above any product, present or announced, in the cell phone market.
Sure, somebody can match pricing, or put together a not terrible music store, or bring out a decent handset.
But who is going to match the iTMS/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecology? Which cell phone carrier is going to provide a system that lets me integrate my music purchases, rips, MP3 player selections, phone selections, ringtones, pictures, data and home stereo playback?
None of them. Ever. A few might get a few of the pieces, but Apple's steady build out of an integrated consumer digital media ecology is about to start paying off, in spades.
Then go buy an iPhone. Honestly, it seems you want an iPhone (which, btw, so do I). But here are the things that get me with the iPhone:
Cingular. I don't like this company, nor do I plan to switch because of a phone that I simply don't need.
It's price. It's a pricey piece of technology. I don't think it's expensive for what it is -- it has a lot of stuff -- but it is a bit out of my price range.
And thats it. Now back on topic. The UpStage is not an iPhone killer. The UpStage is not meant to do anything but usher Sprint into the music phone age. Version, T-Mobile, Cingular all have "Music Phones" -- and although Sprint has had some pretty decent phones with the ability to play music, the music players were crippled. So here it is. The UpStage.
I don't mean to start anything nor do I mean to offend anyone here. I like this community, you guys are a good bunch of people (so far). It's just that you guys are preaching that no one gets what Apple gets with the phone -- how the iPhone is so simple, so easy to use -- witch is ALL true. But, you guys don't get that the UpStage, The Blade, The Razor and the new Slider all serve a different purpose then the iPhone. The iPhone is a smart phone. it is built to do it all. The UpStage. The Blade. The Razor. The Katana. Even The Chocolate by LG are all good phones because thats what they are -- phones. Some might not play music, but then thats why we have iPods. Some might not play video's, but thats why we have TV/Video iPods. Some might not surf the web well, but hey, thats why we have laptops/computers. And iPods might not call people, but hey! Thats why we have phones.
I get that you guys hate the UpStage for both it's uniqueness and it's functionality. And until I use it, I might hate it as well (I do plan on buying it -- or at least looking into buying it) -- but it's not because I want an iPhone killer. It's not because I want a mp3 player. it's because I want a phone (my current one sucks big a$$) that lets me have my music on my mac as a ring tone. This one does. it's because I don't like to have a phone that everyone has (though...everyone might have this phone, i dunno). I like to try out and buy new things -- and the fact that so many people DON'T like this kind of makes me want it.
Oh, and first and foremost it's a phone and from what i hear, does it well. The reviews I read said that it's a great phone...just that when ur surfing the web, it's annoying and anytime u have to type in text it could get annoying. So about the only thing I might not like is texting -- but then again, I might not be annoyed with it -- I kind of like the idea of a small screen for text, and a big screen for reading the text.
So there you have it. I want the UpStage for those reasons. I know the iPhone is popular, i know the iPhone will sell, and I do wish some day I can have one. But right now -- being a poor college kid who works at wal-mart -- the UpStage works for me. And I REALLY like the "big bulky battery wallet" because when wal-mart sends me outside pushing carts, i can easily break my phone. If i bought the iPhone, it would be (pushing carts it's easy to break things...). And I need the phone for time. That wallet would do some good work for protecting my phone from everything besides water (I hate it when it rains...). Oh, and it gives more then the average amount of battery life...at least for sprint, the average is about four hours of talk time. So yea.
I get that you guys hate the UpStage for both it's uniqueness and it's functionality.
Ugh. You really didn't intend to sound like Samsung or Sprint marketing drone there, did ya?
I don't see any reason to hate ANY phone (aside from it being a piece of sh**), except maybe the alleged 'Zunephone' from Microsoft, when and if it arrives (and then I'd hate it only 'cause it's bound to be a shameless rip-off of Apple's products, which is about all MS can do these days).
I'm not really interested in the UpStage, simply because 1) I've had Samsungs before. They're... okay. 2) I've had Sprint before. It was... okay. Good outdoors, pretty hit-or-miss indoors.
If you feel differently or have had different experiences, more power to you. Get what you like. For what it's worth, I won't be getting the iPhone right off the bat either. Why? Well, Cingular is not very good in my area, #1. #2, I've experienced the customer service of their then parent company, SBC- it was horrible, horrible time. And #3, I'm willing to wait for 3G, and for lower-priced iPhones.
That said, I admire the iPhone for its breakthrough design, UI, and functionality. No hate there, even though I won't be getting one for a long while.
Hey SplineModel, since you know about Lithium Sulphur, what's your take on the new Zinc-Silver batteries due to hit the market soon? A worthy replacement to li-ion tech, or just 'different'?
.
No idea: I haven't looked into Zinc-Silver. Li-S+ seems to have a lot of promise, however.
Although, I will say that there is an official spec on Li-Ion degradation. It comes from the device spec sheets which are downloadable from Toshiba, Sanyo, Varta, etc. That's where I get my figures. You may also notice that the max recommended charge current is often hidden in the details: for an 18650 cell (often used in notebook packs), the number is usually 1400mA for the "fast" regime. The 1C figure (nowadays, about 2400mA for the same type of cell) is listed in the absolute-max-ratings section, but if you ask 10 engineers, 9 of them will quote the 1C figure as the recommended fast-charge current.
So that's today's rant. Device engineers: stop fucking over the customer and start reading your figures, slowing down your chargers, and adding bigger ceramic caps across the batteries. LiIon cells can last for quite a while if the engineering is sound.
We're talking more mindshare than marketshare. I think most people are aware of how the Zune has fared in the market:
Even Mindshare, the SanDisk has more users. Hell any way you look at it there are usually one of 4 Music Players on any given Muni bus in San Francisco in the following order:
1. iPod
2. Music Phone
3. CD Player
4. Sansa
a distant 5. Playstation Portable (nope, not a joke, usually it's only the first 2 or 3 but this one makes #5)
I've seen about 2 Zunes ANYWHERE
The first was a Girl in my Homeroom. She came in after the holidays with a Black Zune (no doubt a Christmas Present) after using a Black iPod Nano 1st Gen. After about 2 weeks she bought a 2nd Gen Nano, also Black. And about 2 Months later she was and still is using a Pink Nano.
The Second one that I've seen is used by a friend of a friend who I personally think is an asshole, so the Zune he has now probably fits him.
Quote:
I think he's referring more to the fact that Li-ion batteries eventually wear down... after 2 years or about 300 discharge cycles, whichever comes first. Not how good a brand-new iPod's batt is.
.
Good Point.... I'll try not to charge it very much.
Can you say the iPhone will fit in your pocket easily? But remember, before you start bashing me, I am an Apple fan -- love my mac and I swear by it. But the iPhone at it's present stage doesn't present a threat to people who just want a phone with a camera, and maybe a couple of added features. Not everyone wants/needs/has money for a computer in a phone, know what I mean *cough* college students.
Useless Disclaimers aside, a Nintendo DS and a PSP can fit in one pocket of my pants. Usually the pants I buy have normal sized pockets... but I somehow shove so much junk in them that I stretch them beyond their normal size.
Oh well, I keep my current phone attached to my Laptop Bag, exactly where my iPhone will end up once I pick it up Somewhere between August and November.
Although, I will say that there is an official spec on Li-Ion degradation. It comes from the device spec sheets which are downloadable from Toshiba, Sanyo, Varta, etc. That's where I get my figures. You may also notice that the max recommended charge current is often hidden in the details: for an 18650 cell (often used in notebook packs), the number is usually 1400mA for the "fast" regime. The 1C figure (nowadays, about 2400mA for the same type of cell) is listed in the absolute-max-ratings section, but if you ask 10 engineers, 9 of them will quote the 1C figure as the recommended fast-charge current.
So that's today's rant. Device engineers: stop fucking over the customer and start reading your figures, slowing down your chargers, and adding bigger ceramic caps across the batteries. LiIon cells can last for quite a while if the engineering is sound.
Okay, I do see your point: Li-Ion devices WOULD last to the 'official spec' if only most engineers would design around the correct charge current (and use larger ceramic caps). Noted. But you do realize the flip side of that, assuming that is the entire problem- by your own observation, most engineers don't design this correctly, so in many devices people see Li-ion battery lives nowhere near 'official spec'.
The real world is a different beast than the theoretical one, unfortunately. And even with correct engineering, differences in how users treat, store, and charge/discharge their batteries (and under what temps) would result in battery life that varied from 'official spec' anyway.
Let's just say I WISH I could've gotten to 500 cycles with only 10% degradation on my iBook batt. Urk.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
.
They did that incredibly brilliant "all iPod users are sheep" ad. You know, the one that's like, our player sucks, is ugly, and is way more expensive. Be a trendsetter and do exactly what we say: buy it.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
.
The only hype I can seem to recall is the hype about the Zune flopping, which turned out to be true.
They did that incredibly brilliant "all iPod users are sheep" ad. You know, the one that's like, our player sucks, is ugly, and is way more expensive. Be a trendsetter and do exactly what we say: buy it.
Oh yeah. Now that you bring it up, I remember reading about that ad, but I never saw it. Maybe I'll Google for it.
Btw, I just turned to the guy next to me @ work, and said, "What do you think of SanDisk's mp3 players?" He said, "SanDisk makes mp3 players?".
Methinks they should amp up their marketing budget some. \
Oh yeah. Now that you bring it up, I remember reading about that ad, but I never saw it. Maybe I'll Google for it.
Btw, I just turned to the guy next to me @ work, and said, "What do you think of SanDisk's mp3 players?" He said, "SanDisk makes mp3 players?".
Methinks they should amp up their marketing budget some. \
.
Haha, they really should, because it's better to have SanDisk selling more players then it is for Microsoft. This way we can just sit back and watch Microsoft slowly be crushed by it's own weight.
Comments
I think he's referring more to the fact that Li-ion batteries eventually wear down... after 2 years or about 300 discharge cycles, whichever comes first. Not how good a brand-new iPod's batt is.
The actual spec is 10% degradation after 500 charge cycles. The problem is that a lot of cheap device designers cut corners and allow for the device to draw or charge with too much "burst" current. This causes fracturing at the electrodes which leads to greater internal resistance and hence shorter battery life. Lithium Sulfur batteries have more robust electrodes, and should be showing up in devices fairly soon.
Also, in defense for the Upstage -- it might be joked to be a "iPhone Killer", but as all of you know, it's not. I think the big "iPhone Killer" is in the music store. And it is the exact same price as the Apple Store now -- so you know they are looking at Apple. Also, http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/samsung_upstage/ --> you actually see it in action (even the texting) -- and I gatta say it doesn't look half bad. . . .
Thanks for the link. . . I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get one now, since files from iTunes can be loaded on. That is, you're not bound to the music store.
Thanks for the link. . . I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get one now, since files from iTunes can be loaded on. That is, you're not bound to the music store.
I want to know if iSync works with UpStage,,,
I think the big "iPhone Killer" is in the music store. And it is the exact same price as the Apple Store now -- so you know they are looking at Apple.
The price cut is nice, but it takes a lot more than matching the iTunes price for something to be an 'iTunes killer'. You also need to have a selection as good as the iTMS, strong marketing, and mindshare. On the first, they don't have as many tracks as the iTMS, and points two and three remain to be seen, though I doubt they can market as well as Apple. Most folks can't.
Finally, and unmentioned, is the fact that folks would have to become ga-ga over downloading music OTA. This remains to be seen... the results so far have been fairly poor, but its early days yet.
Can you say the iPhone will fit in your pocket easily?
Yes, actually. It's only 2.4 inches wides, and less than a half-inch thick, while being no taller than most smartphones.
.
The price cut is nice, but it takes a lot more than matching the iTunes price for something to be an 'iTunes killer'. You also need to have a selection as good as the iTMS, strong marketing, and mindshare. On the first, they don't have as many tracks as the iTMS, and points two and three remain to be seen, though I doubt they can market as well as Apple. Most folks can't.
Finally, and unmentioned, is the fact that folks would have to become ga-ga over downloading music OTA. This remains to be seen... the results so far have been fairly poor, but its early days yet.
Yes, actually. It's only 2.4 inches wides, and less than a half-inch thick, while being no taller than most smartphones.
.
I never said it was an iTunes killer, but at the same time you can't download iTunes songs from your iPhone...and on any capable Sprint phone, you can download those songs.
Anyway, then I thought it was bigger. But even still -- is it iPod Nano small? And most of all, is it just simply a phone or an do-it-all phone that costs like 300-500 dollars? I'd rather have a phone that can simply be a phone, and have my songs on it for ring tones. Thats all I want in a phone. And, as it seems, thats what the UpStage is. And other phones (like the Blade from Samsung). Nevertheless, the iPhone still isn't a competitor to the UpStage -- no matter what Sprint says. It's not a smart phone (UpStage) but the iPhone is. Thats like comparing a land line phone to a cell phone. Sure, they both are phones, but some people need land lines (my sister lives out in the mountains....she would need a land line..(lol she doesn't though), however, some people go everywhere and hardly are home. Cell phones are more convenient to those people.
In the same light, if someone will only use their phone for a phone -- then why do they need weather, maps, internet, IM/Text, video/music, and whatever else the iPhone will provide (I heard a rumor it was going to be a shower...lol...thats a joke. YouTube iPhone). However, the UpStage is just a phone with a mp3 player. Some people want that -- others don't. It's all in what your consumer wants.
The actual spec is 10% degradation after 500 charge cycles.
There's really no universally-accepted hard-and-fast 'actual spec', simply because the rate of degradation will vary according to what you do to the battery. For example, Li-ion batteries don't like repeated deep discharges, some temperatures are better than others for them life-wise, storing them with too much or too little charge is bad, not using them regularly is bad, etc. etc.
A more common 'spec' I run into is that Li-ion batteries should last 300 to 500 cycles (which makes sense since it takes into account that people use/treat their batts differently):
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
For myself, I noted that my iBook's battery started to go decidedly south (degradation of more than 20%) after 330 cycles (# of cycles you can find by going About this Mac--> More Info--> Power). Not bad, but of course I wish it had lasted longer.
.
.
Yes, you have to use a "flip" button to change sides.
They made it super slim by using a tiny battery, they're claiming "a day" of usage, which probably means an hour of talk time plus music.
But wait! They include a big bulky "battery wallet" that clips onto the phone so you can't use the music side without taking it out! Which gives you average battery time, but now it's a great big phone! With compromised functionality!
I simply can't imagine how buying music on this thing would be anything other that a massive, massive pain in the ass.
Why would I want to buy music on my computer that I plan to put on my phone, as wnurse asked?
Because that's where I can manage my giant library of tunes, with a nice, big interface that lets me make play lists and browse for music in comfort and tweak settings without getting carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then, I can deploy those tunes in a number of ways, using the seamless integration of my Apple set-up: iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, all served by one database, all with their own smart playlists.
Instead of being afraid of these new initiatives, I would think Apple is licking their chops, because it is exactly here-- where hardware and services and integration are needed-- that they are head and shoulders above any product, present or announced, in the cell phone market.
Sure, somebody can match pricing, or put together a not terrible music store, or bring out a decent handset.
But who is going to match the iTMS/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecology? Which cell phone carrier is going to provide a system that lets me integrate my music purchases, rips, MP3 player selections, phone selections, ringtones, pictures, data and home stereo playback?
None of them. Ever. A few might get a few of the pieces, but Apple's steady build out of an integrated consumer digital media ecology is about to start paying off, in spades.
Man, that video didn't exactly win me over.
Yes, you have to use a "flip" button to change sides.
They made it super slim by using a tiny battery, they're claiming "a day" of usage, which probably means an hour of talk time plus music.
But wait! They include a big bulky "battery wallet" that clips onto the phone so you can't use the music side without taking it out! Which gives you average battery time, but now it's a great big phone! With compromised functionality!
I simply can't imagine how buying music on this thing would be anything other that a massive, massive pain in the ass.
Why would I want to buy music on my computer that I plan to put on my phone, as wnurse asked?
Because that's where I can manage my giant library of tunes, with a nice, big interface that lets me make play lists and browse for music in comfort and tweak settings without getting carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then, I can deploy those tunes in a number of ways, using the seamless integration of my Apple set-up: iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, all served by one database, all with their own smart playlists.
Instead of being afraid of these new initiatives, I would think Apple is licking their chops, because it is exactly here-- where hardware and services and integration are needed-- that they are head and shoulders above any product, present or announced, in the cell phone market.
Sure, somebody can match pricing, or put together a not terrible music store, or bring out a decent handset.
But who is going to match the iTMS/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecology? Which cell phone carrier is going to provide a system that lets me integrate my music purchases, rips, MP3 player selections, phone selections, ringtones, pictures, data and home stereo playback?
None of them. Ever. A few might get a few of the pieces, but Apple's steady build out of an integrated consumer digital media ecology is about to start paying off, in spades.
Then go buy an iPhone. Honestly, it seems you want an iPhone (which, btw, so do I). But here are the things that get me with the iPhone:
Cingular. I don't like this company, nor do I plan to switch because of a phone that I simply don't need.
It's price. It's a pricey piece of technology. I don't think it's expensive for what it is -- it has a lot of stuff -- but it is a bit out of my price range.
And thats it. Now back on topic. The UpStage is not an iPhone killer. The UpStage is not meant to do anything but usher Sprint into the music phone age. Version, T-Mobile, Cingular all have "Music Phones" -- and although Sprint has had some pretty decent phones with the ability to play music, the music players were crippled. So here it is. The UpStage.
I don't mean to start anything nor do I mean to offend anyone here. I like this community, you guys are a good bunch of people (so far). It's just that you guys are preaching that no one gets what Apple gets with the phone -- how the iPhone is so simple, so easy to use -- witch is ALL true. But, you guys don't get that the UpStage, The Blade, The Razor and the new Slider all serve a different purpose then the iPhone. The iPhone is a smart phone. it is built to do it all. The UpStage. The Blade. The Razor. The Katana. Even The Chocolate by LG are all good phones because thats what they are -- phones. Some might not play music, but then thats why we have iPods. Some might not play video's, but thats why we have TV/Video iPods. Some might not surf the web well, but hey, thats why we have laptops/computers. And iPods might not call people, but hey! Thats why we have phones.
I get that you guys hate the UpStage for both it's uniqueness and it's functionality. And until I use it, I might hate it as well (I do plan on buying it -- or at least looking into buying it) -- but it's not because I want an iPhone killer. It's not because I want a mp3 player. it's because I want a phone (my current one sucks big a$$) that lets me have my music on my mac as a ring tone. This one does. it's because I don't like to have a phone that everyone has (though...everyone might have this phone, i dunno). I like to try out and buy new things -- and the fact that so many people DON'T like this kind of makes me want it.
Oh, and first and foremost it's a phone and from what i hear, does it well. The reviews I read said that it's a great phone...just that when ur surfing the web, it's annoying and anytime u have to type in text it could get annoying. So about the only thing I might not like is texting -- but then again, I might not be annoyed with it -- I kind of like the idea of a small screen for text, and a big screen for reading the text.
So there you have it. I want the UpStage for those reasons. I know the iPhone is popular, i know the iPhone will sell, and I do wish some day I can have one. But right now -- being a poor college kid who works at wal-mart -- the UpStage works for me. And I REALLY like the "big bulky battery wallet" because when wal-mart sends me outside pushing carts, i can easily break my phone. If i bought the iPhone, it would be (pushing carts it's easy to break things...). And I need the phone for time. That wallet would do some good work for protecting my phone from everything besides water (I hate it when it rains...). Oh, and it gives more then the average amount of battery life...at least for sprint, the average is about four hours of talk time. So yea.
That'll show us. Because we hate it for its uniqueness and functionality.
I get that you guys hate the UpStage for both it's uniqueness and it's functionality.
Ugh. You really didn't intend to sound like Samsung or Sprint marketing drone there, did ya?
I don't see any reason to hate ANY phone (aside from it being a piece of sh**), except maybe the alleged 'Zunephone' from Microsoft, when and if it arrives (and then I'd hate it only 'cause it's bound to be a shameless rip-off of Apple's products, which is about all MS can do these days).
I'm not really interested in the UpStage, simply because 1) I've had Samsungs before. They're... okay. 2) I've had Sprint before. It was... okay. Good outdoors, pretty hit-or-miss indoors.
If you feel differently or have had different experiences, more power to you. Get what you like. For what it's worth, I won't be getting the iPhone right off the bat either. Why? Well, Cingular is not very good in my area, #1. #2, I've experienced the customer service of their then parent company, SBC- it was horrible, horrible time. And #3, I'm willing to wait for 3G, and for lower-priced iPhones.
That said, I admire the iPhone for its breakthrough design, UI, and functionality. No hate there, even though I won't be getting one for a long while.
.
Hey SplineModel, since you know about Lithium Sulphur, what's your take on the new Zinc-Silver batteries due to hit the market soon? A worthy replacement to li-ion tech, or just 'different'?
.
No idea: I haven't looked into Zinc-Silver. Li-S+ seems to have a lot of promise, however.
Although, I will say that there is an official spec on Li-Ion degradation. It comes from the device spec sheets which are downloadable from Toshiba, Sanyo, Varta, etc. That's where I get my figures. You may also notice that the max recommended charge current is often hidden in the details: for an 18650 cell (often used in notebook packs), the number is usually 1400mA for the "fast" regime. The 1C figure (nowadays, about 2400mA for the same type of cell) is listed in the absolute-max-ratings section, but if you ask 10 engineers, 9 of them will quote the 1C figure as the recommended fast-charge current.
So that's today's rant. Device engineers: stop fucking over the customer and start reading your figures, slowing down your chargers, and adding bigger ceramic caps across the batteries. LiIon cells can last for quite a while if the engineering is sound.
We're talking more mindshare than marketshare. I think most people are aware of how the Zune has fared in the market:
Even Mindshare, the SanDisk has more users. Hell any way you look at it there are usually one of 4 Music Players on any given Muni bus in San Francisco in the following order:
1. iPod
2. Music Phone
3. CD Player
4. Sansa
a distant 5. Playstation Portable (nope, not a joke, usually it's only the first 2 or 3 but this one makes #5)
I've seen about 2 Zunes ANYWHERE
The first was a Girl in my Homeroom. She came in after the holidays with a Black Zune (no doubt a Christmas Present) after using a Black iPod Nano 1st Gen. After about 2 weeks she bought a 2nd Gen Nano, also Black. And about 2 Months later she was and still is using a Pink Nano.
The Second one that I've seen is used by a friend of a friend who I personally think is an asshole, so the Zune he has now probably fits him.
I think he's referring more to the fact that Li-ion batteries eventually wear down... after 2 years or about 300 discharge cycles, whichever comes first. Not how good a brand-new iPod's batt is.
.
Good Point.... I'll try not to charge it very much.
Sebastian
Can you say the iPhone will fit in your pocket easily? But remember, before you start bashing me, I am an Apple fan -- love my mac and I swear by it. But the iPhone at it's present stage doesn't present a threat to people who just want a phone with a camera, and maybe a couple of added features. Not everyone wants/needs/has money for a computer in a phone, know what I mean *cough* college students.
Useless Disclaimers aside, a Nintendo DS and a PSP can fit in one pocket of my pants. Usually the pants I buy have normal sized pockets... but I somehow shove so much junk in them that I stretch them beyond their normal size.
Oh well, I keep my current phone attached to my Laptop Bag, exactly where my iPhone will end up once I pick it up Somewhere between August and November.
Sebastian
Although, I will say that there is an official spec on Li-Ion degradation. It comes from the device spec sheets which are downloadable from Toshiba, Sanyo, Varta, etc. That's where I get my figures. You may also notice that the max recommended charge current is often hidden in the details: for an 18650 cell (often used in notebook packs), the number is usually 1400mA for the "fast" regime. The 1C figure (nowadays, about 2400mA for the same type of cell) is listed in the absolute-max-ratings section, but if you ask 10 engineers, 9 of them will quote the 1C figure as the recommended fast-charge current.
So that's today's rant. Device engineers: stop fucking over the customer and start reading your figures, slowing down your chargers, and adding bigger ceramic caps across the batteries. LiIon cells can last for quite a while if the engineering is sound.
Okay, I do see your point: Li-Ion devices WOULD last to the 'official spec' if only most engineers would design around the correct charge current (and use larger ceramic caps). Noted. But you do realize the flip side of that, assuming that is the entire problem- by your own observation, most engineers don't design this correctly, so in many devices people see Li-ion battery lives nowhere near 'official spec'.
The real world is a different beast than the theoretical one, unfortunately. And even with correct engineering, differences in how users treat, store, and charge/discharge their batteries (and under what temps) would result in battery life that varied from 'official spec' anyway.
Let's just say I WISH I could've gotten to 500 cycles with only 10% degradation on my iBook batt. Urk.
.
Even Mindshare, the SanDisk has more users.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
.
They did that incredibly brilliant "all iPod users are sheep" ad. You know, the one that's like, our player sucks, is ugly, and is way more expensive. Be a trendsetter and do exactly what we say: buy it.
Let's be real here... did you NOT notice the ridiculous (and wholly unwarranted) hype surrounding the Zune the past few months, especially around launchtime/the holidays? Yeesh.
Marketshare does not directly correlate to mindshare. Everyone knows Ferrari and Porsche, but very few people actually OWN one.
The Sansa is a fine player, and SanDisk is doing better marketshare-wise than any of Apple's competitors, but they do find a way to fly below the radar somehow. I honestly cannot remember a single SanDisk player ad, on TV, in a newspaper, or on the Internet.
.
The only hype I can seem to recall is the hype about the Zune flopping, which turned out to be true.
Sebastian
They did that incredibly brilliant "all iPod users are sheep" ad. You know, the one that's like, our player sucks, is ugly, and is way more expensive. Be a trendsetter and do exactly what we say: buy it.
Oh yeah. Now that you bring it up, I remember reading about that ad, but I never saw it. Maybe I'll Google for it.
Btw, I just turned to the guy next to me @ work, and said, "What do you think of SanDisk's mp3 players?" He said, "SanDisk makes mp3 players?".
Methinks they should amp up their marketing budget some.
.
Oh yeah. Now that you bring it up, I remember reading about that ad, but I never saw it. Maybe I'll Google for it.
Btw, I just turned to the guy next to me @ work, and said, "What do you think of SanDisk's mp3 players?" He said, "SanDisk makes mp3 players?".
Methinks they should amp up their marketing budget some.
.
Haha, they really should, because it's better to have SanDisk selling more players then it is for Microsoft. This way we can just sit back and watch Microsoft slowly be crushed by it's own weight.
Sebastian