There has to be a compromise somewhere. Being too limited can be as dangerous as too complex. One can't expect that everyone behave the same way, and that everyone and every need conform to the same thing.
Certainly. My point was that more options is not always the better choice. And that there is a limit to the usefulness of adding more options.
The way I see it, mac OS X might need a real overhaul soon. If you think about the competition. First Mac OS X came out, than microsoft "caught up" in terms of UI with XP.
Are you kidding? XP's interface was like a copy of the OS X interface for kids. Those big, ugly window buttons are not even comparable. They look like Duplo blocks or something. Everything just felt too big, clumsy, and in-your-face in XP. The first thing I do when I install a copy of XP is revert it back to the Classic styling.
Quote:
Now we've seen minor improvements, but now Microsoft has leapfrogged with a new design with Vista. It seems to me that Leopard won't be a big of a change as XP to Vista was.
I'd say that Vista has simply caught Windows up to the current state of Mac OS X. The parts where they appear to have outdone Mac OS X with the over-the-top shininess just feels... well... over-the-top. It seems like Microsoft is trying too hard to "beat" OS X. However, remember that Apple did originally have the high gloss, "lickable" interface, with all sorts of transparency, but has largely moved away from that because they realized that it just makes things look cluttered once you get over the initial excitement.
And yes, I was one of those Linux tweakers from way back who customized every element of my desktop with overly-designed icons, transparency, fill-patterns, etc (fvwmrc or Enlightenment anyone?). After you do it 2 or 3 times and it becomes like a yearly renovation, you start to realize what's enjoyable to use on a daily basis, and what just starts to look gimmicky after a few months. Trust me, all of those glossy backgrounds in Vista will feel like a gimmick in a year's time or so. It's the more subtle redesign elements which actually make the interface more usable that will stand the test of time.
The latest development build of Mac OS X Leopard finally tackles issues with consistent style that many say have plagued the Apple software for years.
While most of the test versions of the future operating system have so far handled only the many bugs still left in its code, this week's edition allegedly contains the first signs of obvious visual differences between itself and 2005's Mac OS X Tiger.
The brushed-metal look that first appeared in earnest with Panther has almost completely faded away, according to reports. Well-known holdouts for the style, including Finder, Photo Booth, and Safari, have purportedly abandoned the metallic sheen in favor of the simpler, gradiated style that first appeared in Apple Mail 2.0 and later transferred to Leopard's version of iChat and the more widely available iTunes 7.
A frequent sticking point with critics of Apple's user interface has been its tendency to use different visual elements for program windows without a clear shift in purpose, such as the use of the gradient style for System Preferences versus the metal of Finder or the Aqua style of generic windows.
See more Leopard build 9A410 screenshots supplied by hackint0sh and Flickr.
Yeah, I don't like the dark grey. I much prefer the light grey choice in Uno. Guess I'll be using Uno in Leopard too if they update it.
The corners do look itunes sharp but why do they insist on bevelling the bottom corners on some windows? This is another reason I like Uno because in the Finder and Safari it makes the bottom corners entirely square. Has anyone been able to square the corners completely by modifying Uno? Preferrably the ones at the top of the screen too.
The way I see it, mac OS X might need a real overhaul soon. If you think about the competition. First Mac OS X came out, than microsoft "caught up" in terms of UI with XP. Now we've seen minor improvements, but now Microsoft has leapfrogged with a new design with Vista. It seems to me that Leopard won't be a big of a change as XP to Vista was.
What changes do you speak of? Can you tell me what features I should be looking at in Vista? The most readily apparent feature is the glossy UI but after that I just don't know where to look to find the best features.
Why would Leopard have to be as big a change? Between XP and Vista, we've had Puma, Jaguar, Panther and Tiger.
Because people tend to buy based on what they see and Vista is a huge leap over XP in the looks.
I am afraid that the effort Apple puts in improving the internals of OS X can be immediately appreciated only by small minorities like the present one. The average consumer knows nearly nothing and cares even less about the intermediate OS X updates. If Vista looks more shiny to its eyes he will buy it instead of Tiger or Leopard (*). Apple needs to strike back hard, not only in the under the hood, usability and quality levels, but in the looks too.
Apple knows all this very well. The iPhone runs some light version of OS X without something similar from the known OS X editions. Although I am not too optimistic about that, its interface is probably a hint about Leopard.
EDIT: (*) I mean of course he will buy a Vista PC instead of a Tiger/Leopard Macintosh.
Because people tend to buy based on what they see and Vista is a huge leap over XP in the looks.
I am afraid that the effort Apple puts in improving the internals of OS X can be immediately appreciated only by small minorities like the present one. The average consumer knows nearly nothing and cares even less about the intermediate OS X updates. If Vista looks more shiny to its eyes he will buy it instead of Tiger or Leopard (*). Apple needs to strike back hard, not only in the under the hood, usability and quality levels, but in the looks too.
Apple knows all this very well. The iPhone runs some light version of OS X without something similar from the known OS X editions. Although I am not too optimistic about that, its interface is probably a hint about Leopard.
EDIT: (*) I mean of course he will buy a Vista PC instead of a Tiger/Leopard Macintosh.
Before you get bashed again (because one thing I noticed about this web site, they don't want Apple's OS to get a make-over -- they want it to stay professional looking, and simple) -- I want to through in my two cents.
First off, everything is pointing towards Aqua being thrown out the door. iTunes does not support the Aqua interface. And look at the iPhone -- the biggest clue on what Leopard will look like (because iPhone has Mac OS X on it). The iPhone interface is very dark. Other things that point to a darker theme is Apple's Web Site -- where it use to be all white, now they have black themes for almost all of it's new devices (including the iPhone/Apple TV).
I think we will see a grey/black/silver the me for Leopard. I also think he dock will change somehow. Maybe not a big change -- but a very subtle change. And even the icons will receive a change -- thats present wth iTunes, with the icon now having a blue instead of green,
But what ever it is, I am sure it will be amazing.
(in fact, look at the Mac OS X Leopard Sneek Peek -- even that site has a dark theme. And look at the navigation. I could be looking too much into this, but it is black -- maybe thats how the standard dock will be -- black)
Until they open some of the control panels just to see that they are identical to the ones in Windows95.
I am afraid that the computer will already be at home when this happens. And even then, no one can tell how the average user grown in the Windows environment will react.
Fact is that Vista is the first real challenge to OS X in the appearance level at least. When it comes to sales, it does not matter who was the first to introduce and support such visual technologies that make the system more friendly and pleasing to use. No one cares, remembers or is willing to learn.
I am looking forward for WWDC or, rather, October.
(because one thing I noticed about this web site, they don't want Apple's OS to get a make-over -- they want it to stay professional looking, and simple)
I am not necessarily in the camp of supporters of a UI overhaul. Actually, I am waiting to see the evolutions before judging for myself. The possibilities are virtually countless so it is better to wait and see.
But I cannot ignore some facts, like the endless comparisons between Mac OS X and Windows all over the internet and not only, and the major changes that Vista brought on the table. Even if we agree that these changes are not worthy more than just bait for new buyers, there will be many that will bite because it is Vista and not XP. Apple is worried about this and it starts to show in the Leopard screenshots circulating around lateley.
I sure hope that this is just a hint of what Leopard will actually look like, because I think we were all hoping for a new theme or something, not just a 'unification' using a boring theme that's currently in use in OS X...
So, did anyone else notice that the crumpled metal and the shine are all over the FCS 2 page? (of course you did) It even has QuickLook-like popups for the products and reflections, which, though not new, are new for this context. I think this is the biggest clue, and an interesting one, because it suggests that glossy enamel is not going to be the total image of Leopard.
I thought exactly the same thing. That shiny bevelled edge, the light emanating from behind - it's the same treatment as the X logo for Tiger and Leopard and the Apple Dawn teaser image from MWSF. It definitely seems to be a meme for Apple at the moment, though it may just be in their marketing department!
The popups immediately made me think of Quick Look, too. I've never quite understood the idea of that preview window if you have to click on an icon or pick an option from the context menu to call it up - surely then it's easier to just double-click and open the file? But if it pops up automatically as you hover over the file (with that little arrow linking the preview to the file itself), then that suddenly makes a lot more sense. They could do it with the Spotlight menu as well - as you arrow down the results list, a preview pops up to the side. They're already doing a similar thing for the Help menu (opening menus and highlighting menu items for you as you move down through the list of help search results) so it would make sense to do it for Spotlight as well.
Comments
There has to be a compromise somewhere. Being too limited can be as dangerous as too complex. One can't expect that everyone behave the same way, and that everyone and every need conform to the same thing.
Certainly. My point was that more options is not always the better choice. And that there is a limit to the usefulness of adding more options.
Ok, so what the heck is UNO?
Seriously, how hard would it have been to google it?
The way I see it, mac OS X might need a real overhaul soon. If you think about the competition. First Mac OS X came out, than microsoft "caught up" in terms of UI with XP.
Are you kidding? XP's interface was like a copy of the OS X interface for kids. Those big, ugly window buttons are not even comparable. They look like Duplo blocks or something. Everything just felt too big, clumsy, and in-your-face in XP. The first thing I do when I install a copy of XP is revert it back to the Classic styling.
Now we've seen minor improvements, but now Microsoft has leapfrogged with a new design with Vista. It seems to me that Leopard won't be a big of a change as XP to Vista was.
I'd say that Vista has simply caught Windows up to the current state of Mac OS X. The parts where they appear to have outdone Mac OS X with the over-the-top shininess just feels... well... over-the-top. It seems like Microsoft is trying too hard to "beat" OS X. However, remember that Apple did originally have the high gloss, "lickable" interface, with all sorts of transparency, but has largely moved away from that because they realized that it just makes things look cluttered once you get over the initial excitement.
And yes, I was one of those Linux tweakers from way back who customized every element of my desktop with overly-designed icons, transparency, fill-patterns, etc (fvwmrc or Enlightenment anyone?). After you do it 2 or 3 times and it becomes like a yearly renovation, you start to realize what's enjoyable to use on a daily basis, and what just starts to look gimmicky after a few months. Trust me, all of those glossy backgrounds in Vista will feel like a gimmick in a year's time or so. It's the more subtle redesign elements which actually make the interface more usable that will stand the test of time.
The latest development build of Mac OS X Leopard finally tackles issues with consistent style that many say have plagued the Apple software for years.
While most of the test versions of the future operating system have so far handled only the many bugs still left in its code, this week's edition allegedly contains the first signs of obvious visual differences between itself and 2005's Mac OS X Tiger.
The brushed-metal look that first appeared in earnest with Panther has almost completely faded away, according to reports. Well-known holdouts for the style, including Finder, Photo Booth, and Safari, have purportedly abandoned the metallic sheen in favor of the simpler, gradiated style that first appeared in Apple Mail 2.0 and later transferred to Leopard's version of iChat and the more widely available iTunes 7.
A frequent sticking point with critics of Apple's user interface has been its tendency to use different visual elements for program windows without a clear shift in purpose, such as the use of the gradient style for System Preferences versus the metal of Finder or the Aqua style of generic windows.
See more Leopard build 9A410 screenshots supplied by hackint0sh and Flickr.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Certainly doesn't look like it is changed in Apple's latest release, i.e, Final Cut Studio 2.
Check out these pics at Think Secret for a thorough look at Leopard's UNO-like unified look.
Yeah, I don't like the dark grey. I much prefer the light grey choice in Uno. Guess I'll be using Uno in Leopard too if they update it.
The corners do look itunes sharp but why do they insist on bevelling the bottom corners on some windows? This is another reason I like Uno because in the Finder and Safari it makes the bottom corners entirely square. Has anyone been able to square the corners completely by modifying Uno? Preferrably the ones at the top of the screen too.
The way I see it, mac OS X might need a real overhaul soon. If you think about the competition. First Mac OS X came out, than microsoft "caught up" in terms of UI with XP. Now we've seen minor improvements, but now Microsoft has leapfrogged with a new design with Vista. It seems to me that Leopard won't be a big of a change as XP to Vista was.
What changes do you speak of? Can you tell me what features I should be looking at in Vista? The most readily apparent feature is the glossy UI but after that I just don't know where to look to find the best features.
Why would Leopard have to be as big a change? Between XP and Vista, we've had Puma, Jaguar, Panther and Tiger.
Because people tend to buy based on what they see and Vista is a huge leap over XP in the looks.
I am afraid that the effort Apple puts in improving the internals of OS X can be immediately appreciated only by small minorities like the present one. The average consumer knows nearly nothing and cares even less about the intermediate OS X updates. If Vista looks more shiny to its eyes he will buy it instead of Tiger or Leopard (*). Apple needs to strike back hard, not only in the under the hood, usability and quality levels, but in the looks too.
Apple knows all this very well. The iPhone runs some light version of OS X without something similar from the known OS X editions. Although I am not too optimistic about that, its interface is probably a hint about Leopard.
EDIT: (*) I mean of course he will buy a Vista PC instead of a Tiger/Leopard Macintosh.
Because people tend to buy based on what they see and Vista is a huge leap over XP in the looks.
I am afraid that the effort Apple puts in improving the internals of OS X can be immediately appreciated only by small minorities like the present one. The average consumer knows nearly nothing and cares even less about the intermediate OS X updates. If Vista looks more shiny to its eyes he will buy it instead of Tiger or Leopard (*). Apple needs to strike back hard, not only in the under the hood, usability and quality levels, but in the looks too.
Apple knows all this very well. The iPhone runs some light version of OS X without something similar from the known OS X editions. Although I am not too optimistic about that, its interface is probably a hint about Leopard.
EDIT: (*) I mean of course he will buy a Vista PC instead of a Tiger/Leopard Macintosh.
Before you get bashed again (because one thing I noticed about this web site, they don't want Apple's OS to get a make-over -- they want it to stay professional looking, and simple) -- I want to through in my two cents.
First off, everything is pointing towards Aqua being thrown out the door. iTunes does not support the Aqua interface. And look at the iPhone -- the biggest clue on what Leopard will look like (because iPhone has Mac OS X on it). The iPhone interface is very dark. Other things that point to a darker theme is Apple's Web Site -- where it use to be all white, now they have black themes for almost all of it's new devices (including the iPhone/Apple TV).
I think we will see a grey/black/silver the me for Leopard. I also think he dock will change somehow. Maybe not a big change -- but a very subtle change. And even the icons will receive a change -- thats present wth iTunes, with the icon now having a blue instead of green,
(in fact, look at the Mac OS X Leopard Sneek Peek -- even that site has a dark theme. And look at the navigation. I could be looking too much into this, but it is black -- maybe thats how the standard dock will be -- black)
Because people tend to buy based on what they see and Vista is a huge leap over XP in the looks.
Until they open some of the control panels just to see that they are identical to the ones in Windows95.
Until they open some of the control panels just to see that they are identical to the ones in Windows95.
I am afraid that the computer will already be at home when this happens. And even then, no one can tell how the average user grown in the Windows environment will react.
Fact is that Vista is the first real challenge to OS X in the appearance level at least. When it comes to sales, it does not matter who was the first to introduce and support such visual technologies that make the system more friendly and pleasing to use. No one cares, remembers or is willing to learn.
I am looking forward for WWDC or, rather, October.
(because one thing I noticed about this web site, they don't want Apple's OS to get a make-over -- they want it to stay professional looking, and simple)
I am not necessarily in the camp of supporters of a UI overhaul. Actually, I am waiting to see the evolutions before judging for myself. The possibilities are virtually countless so it is better to wait and see.
But I cannot ignore some facts, like the endless comparisons between Mac OS X and Windows all over the internet and not only, and the major changes that Vista brought on the table. Even if we agree that these changes are not worthy more than just bait for new buyers, there will be many that will bite because it is Vista and not XP. Apple is worried about this and it starts to show in the Leopard screenshots circulating around lateley.
So, did anyone else notice that the crumpled metal and the shine are all over the FCS 2 page? (of course you did) It even has QuickLook-like popups for the products and reflections, which, though not new, are new for this context. I think this is the biggest clue, and an interesting one, because it suggests that glossy enamel is not going to be the total image of Leopard.
I thought exactly the same thing. That shiny bevelled edge, the light emanating from behind - it's the same treatment as the X logo for Tiger and Leopard and the Apple Dawn teaser image from MWSF. It definitely seems to be a meme for Apple at the moment, though it may just be in their marketing department!
The popups immediately made me think of Quick Look, too. I've never quite understood the idea of that preview window if you have to click on an icon or pick an option from the context menu to call it up - surely then it's easier to just double-click and open the file? But if it pops up automatically as you hover over the file (with that little arrow linking the preview to the file itself), then that suddenly makes a lot more sense. They could do it with the Spotlight menu as well - as you arrow down the results list, a preview pops up to the side. They're already doing a similar thing for the Help menu (opening menus and highlighting menu items for you as you move down through the list of help search results) so it would make sense to do it for Spotlight as well.
Aqua (blue/white)
Midnight (d.grey+ various colors)
Custom - make your own theme to some degree. Different gradient styles, etc.