Since the legal problems right now concerning 3G networks, I'm kinda glad that the current iPhones are on Edge (up to a point obviously). Otherwise we wouldn't have them come out now since no new devices can be produced and sold (if they haven't appeared before) with 3G capabilities - at least until we hear further from the courts on this that is. But that's where the love ends.
Having said that, does anyone (with technicall know-how, no guessing please) know what it would take to upgrade a phone from something like, say, I don't know, an Edge network to a 3G network? Can it be done via a firmware upgrade or would it require all new hardware?
I'm just wondering if they planned on releasing the intitial iPhone knowing what was going on with the 3G legal woes and then waiting until it was legally resolved to introduce a phone either on the 3G network, an equivelant or something faster.
Since the legal problems right now concerning 3G networks, I'm kinda glad that the current iPhones are on Edge (up to a point obviously). Otherwise we wouldn't have them come out now since no new devices can be produced and sold (if they haven't appeared before) with 3G capabilities - at least until we hear further from the courts on this that is. But that's where the love ends.
There's no legal problems with 3G networks, just with Qualcomm's chips that violate some patents. Phones that don't use the chips don't have problems.
Every sales training class or school I was ever sent to (in a former life) always stressed one common point. If you say one word about the competition the potential customer will have their interest peaked. If you disparage the competition the customer will surely check them out because it means you are concerned about them.
This is gonna be fun to watch. The world changes again this Friday and a lot of people are already freaking out. Sprint especially I guess.
These are talking points when people ask about the iPhone. Not something you're supposed to be talking about the second someone comes into the store. And if someone asks about the iphone, they already know about it and want to know answers. By your logic, the sales people are supposed to go "iWhat? iPhone? Can't say I've ever heard of it." Yeah, that's as believable as anything any rep has to say about a competitors product. Do you think Apple's going to be all "Oh, the N95, that's a great phone too, you should look into it!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojciechowski
They forgot one...
"If you are a fan of any NASCAR driver that isn't Jeff Burton, then you should stay with Nextel/Sprint. The official sponsor of NASCAR as a whole."
Hey it worked for Winston... oh wait.
Winston was replaced because of some stupid law passed that prevents cigarettes companies from putting their name on anything that's in the public space, because all it does is drive kids to smoke. Thank god they went to the Nextel cup. Now they're all smoking while glued to their stupid phones texting and calling all hours of the day and night.
As soon as the country is renamed United States of Apple........ (which, I am told, will happen as soon as Al Gore -- Apple board member, and blowhard-in-chief -- becomes our next president).
wow just contacted cingular, and since i started a contract with them 2 months ago, i asked them if i could buy the iphone and they told me, i sure can and all i have to do is extend my contract to 2 years again, and pay $599 for the 8gb model, they also said, you can only get it at ATT stores or apple stores or apple online, and that they wont even have them at the ATT online stores for sale or take orders on the phone from anyone
At least, with the iPhone keyboard, you'll have the excuse of not having an obviously placed "shift" key (which, fyi -- or is it FYI -- appears immediately to the left of the "z" key on a regular keyboard).
(OO)PS: I noticed that you did capitalize "ATT." My apologies!
Winston was replaced because of some stupid law passed that prevents cigarettes companies from putting their name on anything that's in the public space, because all it does is drive kids to smoke. Thank god they went to the Nextel cup. Now they're all smoking while glued to their stupid phones texting and calling all hours of the day and night.
I remember all that happening, but didn't remember if that was the only reason the name changed.
Guess they changed the name because cigarettes kill... when you are in your 40's, 50's, 60's, or never... and giving people the idea that a major sport being sponsored by an addictive substance is bad.
But no harm could possibly come from putting giant advertisements of Budweiser, Miller, Crown Royal, Jack Daniels, and Jim Beam on the hoods of glamorized cars traveling at high speeds.
Originally posted by Louzer. There's no legal problems with 3G networks, just with Qualcomm's chips that violate some patents. Phones that don't use the chips don't have problems.
Well, the point is the same. You're right. The legal problems are NOT with the networks, but rather with the 3G chipsets. Yes, I know, it is an ongoing legal battle between Broadcom and Qualcomm, yeah, yeah, I know . . . but what I was referring to was that if Apple was to have announced in January that instead of using the Edge network, it would instead be using the 3G network (hence a 3G chip). So, then several months later, it is announced that there is a lawsuit that states NO NEW 3G chips are to be used in any new phones**. So what do we have then? Well we don't have the iPhone. At least not now. But who knows when.
So my point is still the same. Many analysts as well as people in the industry had predicted this. Or at least saw the possibility of it. So it wouldn't be too far of a stretch that AT&T as well as Apple thought "Hey, this seems to be too much of a gamble right now (for the iPhone to use only a 3G system). Why don't we use Edge for now and have the iPhone upgrade to a 3G system when the litigation settles."
And my question is still the same. Can this be done in a firmware upgrade?
**Last week, the ITC banned the import of future models of 3G mobile broadband handsets containing Qualcomm chipsets and software. - Internetnews.com June 11th, 2007
Well, the point is the same. You're right. The legal problems are NOT with the networks, but rather with the 3G chipsets. Yes, I know, it is an ongoing legal battle between Broadcom and Qualcomm, yeah, yeah, I know . . . but what I was referring to was that if Apple was to have announced in January that instead of using the Edge network, it would instead be using the 3G network (hence a 3G chip). So, then several months later, it is announced that there is a lawsuit that states NO NEW 3G chips are to be used in any new phones**. So what do we have then? Well we don't have the iPhone. At least not now. But who knows when.
So my point is still the same. Many analysts as well as people in the industry had predicted this. Or at least saw the possibility of it. So it wouldn't be too far of a stretch that AT&T as well as Apple thought "Hey, this seems to be too much of a gamble right now (for the iPhone to use only a 3G system). Why don't we use Edge for now and have the iPhone upgrade to a 3G system when the litigation settles."
And my question is still the same. Can this be done in a firmware upgrade?
I doubt Apple saw the Qualcomm chip ban coming, or at least it happening right around the time of the iPhone launch. Stuff like that is incredibly unpredictable. It's also likely that the chip ban will be settled fairly quickly... basically the parties involved are playing chicken with one another. Stupid, but that's what happens when a lot of money's involved.
And no, a firmware upgrade alone won't make the iPhone 3G. There has to be specific hardware in there, i.e. a separate 3G radio. Doesn't seem to be in there (Apple's made no mention), but we'll know soon enough, as someone will soon do a teardown of an iPhone.
I doubt Apple saw the Qualcomm chip ban coming, or at least it happening right around the time of the iPhone launch. Stuff like that is incredibly unpredictable. It's also likely that the chip ban will be settled fairly quickly... basically the parties involved are playing chicken with one another. Stupid, but that's what happens when a lot of money's involved.
And no, a firmware upgrade alone won't make the iPhone 3G. There has to be specific hardware in there, i.e. a separate 3G radio. Doesn't seem to be in there (Apple's made no mention), but we'll know soon enough, as someone will soon do a teardown of an iPhone.
.
Well, you need special hardware to do 802.11n wireless, too. Apple didn't officially announce it at the time (worst kept secret in history for anybody running Windows XP on their machines), but that hardware was always present and physically enabled in its Core 2 Duo Macs; all that was needed for Mac OS X users was a driver update.
Mightn't the same also be true of the iPhone and 3G?
"In the comments section of this very blog (and in a follow-up conversation with me), Mac radio host Shawn King reports that AT&T?s monthly unlimited data plan for the iPhone will be $20. AT&T?s current ?SmartPhone Unlimited? plan is ? you guessed it ? $20.
Meanwhile, ?Boy Genius Report? says that according to a ?pretty high up source? the ?iPlan? will ?be around $34.99-$44.99.?
Put them both together and it sounds like we?re talking about $55-65 a month for your iPhone service. Not dirt cheap, but not at all out of line with what people are paying for existing data phone plans."
I just came from my AT&T store and the sales rep as well as the manager gave this news:
1) The voice plans will be the standard ones AT&T offers. See the AT&T website for the different plans and options.
2) The data plans will be at the exact cost of $19.99, $29.99 and $39.99 per month -- and you do NOT have the option of getting no data plan.
3) It is Apple which won't let AT&T disclose what is in these data plans until 6 pm local time Friday. (So they say...)
4) There is a huge banner outside our store saying that unlimited text messages has arrived at AT&T. Obviously this is being added because of Friday's launch of iPhone. When asked if the unlimited text message plan is one of the three that will be offered with iPhone, they could not say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisneyEcho
My guess:
$39.99: Unlimited texting and data
$29.99: Some limit on the amount of data used each month, but unlimited texting
$19.99: Limits on data and texting.
For the lower cost two plans, if you go over the limit you'll have to pay a certain amount extra based on how much over you are.
How is $59.99 for 200 texts and unlimited data better than $39.99 for unlimited texts and data? And how is $59.99 minimum contract better than $19.99 minimum?
How is $59.99 for 200 texts and unlimited data better than $39.99 for unlimited texts and data? And how is $59.99 minimum contract better than $19.99 minimum?
$59.99 includes voice. It's not just the data plan.
Well, you need special hardware to do 802.11n wireless, too. Apple didn't officially announce it at the time (worst kept secret in history for anybody running Windows XP on their machines), but that hardware was always present and physically enabled in its Core 2 Duo Macs; all that was needed for Mac OS X users was a driver update.
Mightn't the same also be true of the iPhone and 3G?
Probably not, sad to say. \
The likely reason why Apple released a software update for 802.11n AFTER including the 802.11n hardware in later model notebooks was that the 802.11n standard wasn't finished yet (still isn't, it's in 'draft' form right now, but I guess its firm enough that Apple can work with it now).
3G/HSDPA isn't in the same state. As a standard, it's been done for awhile. So there's no reason there for Apple to include the hardware, then do a software update later.
I think people who are hoping for 3G on the first version of the iPhone are engaging in some wishful thinking (I know, I do it too).
Apple will make a 3G iPhone eventually (definitely in time for the Asian release in 2008, because the iPhone will crash and burn in Japan and Korea if it doesn't have it), but this first version just does not seem to have it. Sorry.
PS- I would absolutely love to be wrong about this.
I have been waiting 2 years to get an iPhone. I have been able to get by without a cell until about 6 months ago, and I've been able to borrow one for when I need one. I may buy an iPhone if the plan is <$50/month. However, without GPS, I may have to wait. I need GPS and don't want to buy a $200-300 device that doesn't support Macs when I can buy an iPhone that has built in Apple support.
Garmin has announced Mac support for 2 years and still hasn't produced. I would have bought one right away, but forget it if it's available on a phone (like most good phones out there).
Just in case you weren't aware... the iPhone wasn't announced 2 years ago.
Comments
Having said that, does anyone (with technicall know-how, no guessing please) know what it would take to upgrade a phone from something like, say, I don't know, an Edge network to a 3G network? Can it be done via a firmware upgrade or would it require all new hardware?
I'm just wondering if they planned on releasing the intitial iPhone knowing what was going on with the 3G legal woes and then waiting until it was legally resolved to introduce a phone either on the 3G network, an equivelant or something faster.
Any thoughts?
$25.00 (with taxes) for:
500 anytime minutes
6 PM Nights/Weekends
Unlimited SMS messages/picturemail/videomail
Unlimited roaming
Unlimited Power Vision high speed (which is very fast, connected to laptop 900k down)
Unlimted Sprint/Nextel calls
Telenav, Gmail, GMaps, etc
So, $300 a year. Similar AT&T plan $960+ a year plus a $500 - $6000 phone.
You tell me if Sprint is so bad?
Since the legal problems right now concerning 3G networks, I'm kinda glad that the current iPhones are on Edge (up to a point obviously). Otherwise we wouldn't have them come out now since no new devices can be produced and sold (if they haven't appeared before) with 3G capabilities - at least until we hear further from the courts on this that is. But that's where the love ends.
There's no legal problems with 3G networks, just with Qualcomm's chips that violate some patents. Phones that don't use the chips don't have problems.
Every sales training class or school I was ever sent to (in a former life) always stressed one common point. If you say one word about the competition the potential customer will have their interest peaked. If you disparage the competition the customer will surely check them out because it means you are concerned about them.
This is gonna be fun to watch. The world changes again this Friday and a lot of people are already freaking out. Sprint especially I guess.
These are talking points when people ask about the iPhone. Not something you're supposed to be talking about the second someone comes into the store. And if someone asks about the iphone, they already know about it and want to know answers. By your logic, the sales people are supposed to go "iWhat? iPhone? Can't say I've ever heard of it." Yeah, that's as believable as anything any rep has to say about a competitors product. Do you think Apple's going to be all "Oh, the N95, that's a great phone too, you should look into it!"
They forgot one...
"If you are a fan of any NASCAR driver that isn't Jeff Burton, then you should stay with Nextel/Sprint. The official sponsor of NASCAR as a whole."
Hey it worked for Winston... oh wait.
Winston was replaced because of some stupid law passed that prevents cigarettes companies from putting their name on anything that's in the public space, because all it does is drive kids to smoke. Thank god they went to the Nextel cup. Now they're all smoking while glued to their stupid phones texting and calling all hours of the day and night.
Will 'A' in AT&T stand for 'Apple' ?
As soon as the country is renamed United States of Apple........ (which, I am told, will happen as soon as Al Gore -- Apple board member, and blowhard-in-chief -- becomes our next president).
wow just contacted cingular, and since i started a contract with them 2 months ago, i asked them if i could buy the iphone and they told me, i sure can and all i have to do is extend my contract to 2 years again, and pay $599 for the 8gb model, they also said, you can only get it at ATT stores or apple stores or apple online, and that they wont even have them at the ATT online stores for sale or take orders on the phone from anyone
At least, with the iPhone keyboard, you'll have the excuse of not having an obviously placed "shift" key (which, fyi -- or is it FYI -- appears immediately to the left of the "z" key on a regular keyboard).
(OO)PS: I noticed that you did capitalize "ATT." My apologies!
They forgot one...
"If you are a fan of any NASCAR driver that isn't Jeff Burton, then you should stay with Nextel/Sprint. The official sponsor of NASCAR as a whole."
Hey it worked for Winston... oh wait.
But who needs an iPhone when one of these bad-boys are available for over $100 cheaper...
http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASAp...=Other+Devices
Did my dad write that e-mail? Mr. Nascar, is that you?
Highlight of my day.... ha ha ha
Winston was replaced because of some stupid law passed that prevents cigarettes companies from putting their name on anything that's in the public space, because all it does is drive kids to smoke. Thank god they went to the Nextel cup. Now they're all smoking while glued to their stupid phones texting and calling all hours of the day and night.
I remember all that happening, but didn't remember if that was the only reason the name changed.
Guess they changed the name because cigarettes kill... when you are in your 40's, 50's, 60's, or never... and giving people the idea that a major sport being sponsored by an addictive substance is bad.
But no harm could possibly come from putting giant advertisements of Budweiser, Miller, Crown Royal, Jack Daniels, and Jim Beam on the hoods of glamorized cars traveling at high speeds.
Originally posted by Louzer. There's no legal problems with 3G networks, just with Qualcomm's chips that violate some patents. Phones that don't use the chips don't have problems.
Well, the point is the same. You're right. The legal problems are NOT with the networks, but rather with the 3G chipsets. Yes, I know, it is an ongoing legal battle between Broadcom and Qualcomm, yeah, yeah, I know . . . but what I was referring to was that if Apple was to have announced in January that instead of using the Edge network, it would instead be using the 3G network (hence a 3G chip). So, then several months later, it is announced that there is a lawsuit that states NO NEW 3G chips are to be used in any new phones**. So what do we have then? Well we don't have the iPhone. At least not now. But who knows when.
So my point is still the same. Many analysts as well as people in the industry had predicted this. Or at least saw the possibility of it. So it wouldn't be too far of a stretch that AT&T as well as Apple thought "Hey, this seems to be too much of a gamble right now (for the iPhone to use only a 3G system). Why don't we use Edge for now and have the iPhone upgrade to a 3G system when the litigation settles."
And my question is still the same. Can this be done in a firmware upgrade?
**Last week, the ITC banned the import of future models of 3G mobile broadband handsets containing Qualcomm chipsets and software. - Internetnews.com June 11th, 2007
Uh, yes its a great innovative device, now you don't want every thug mugging you to get yours do you?
Hey, its $600, think of all the starving children you could feed with that money!
Hey, its $600, think of all the starving children you could feed with that money!
Mmmm... Did somebody say calamari?
Mmmm... Did somebody say calamari?
Zing!
Well, the point is the same. You're right. The legal problems are NOT with the networks, but rather with the 3G chipsets. Yes, I know, it is an ongoing legal battle between Broadcom and Qualcomm, yeah, yeah, I know . . . but what I was referring to was that if Apple was to have announced in January that instead of using the Edge network, it would instead be using the 3G network (hence a 3G chip). So, then several months later, it is announced that there is a lawsuit that states NO NEW 3G chips are to be used in any new phones**. So what do we have then? Well we don't have the iPhone. At least not now. But who knows when.
So my point is still the same. Many analysts as well as people in the industry had predicted this. Or at least saw the possibility of it. So it wouldn't be too far of a stretch that AT&T as well as Apple thought "Hey, this seems to be too much of a gamble right now (for the iPhone to use only a 3G system). Why don't we use Edge for now and have the iPhone upgrade to a 3G system when the litigation settles."
And my question is still the same. Can this be done in a firmware upgrade?
I doubt Apple saw the Qualcomm chip ban coming, or at least it happening right around the time of the iPhone launch. Stuff like that is incredibly unpredictable. It's also likely that the chip ban will be settled fairly quickly... basically the parties involved are playing chicken with one another. Stupid, but that's what happens when a lot of money's involved.
And no, a firmware upgrade alone won't make the iPhone 3G. There has to be specific hardware in there, i.e. a separate 3G radio. Doesn't seem to be in there (Apple's made no mention), but we'll know soon enough, as someone will soon do a teardown of an iPhone.
.
I doubt Apple saw the Qualcomm chip ban coming, or at least it happening right around the time of the iPhone launch. Stuff like that is incredibly unpredictable. It's also likely that the chip ban will be settled fairly quickly... basically the parties involved are playing chicken with one another. Stupid, but that's what happens when a lot of money's involved.
And no, a firmware upgrade alone won't make the iPhone 3G. There has to be specific hardware in there, i.e. a separate 3G radio. Doesn't seem to be in there (Apple's made no mention), but we'll know soon enough, as someone will soon do a teardown of an iPhone.
.
Well, you need special hardware to do 802.11n wireless, too. Apple didn't officially announce it at the time (worst kept secret in history for anybody running Windows XP on their machines), but that hardware was always present and physically enabled in its Core 2 Duo Macs; all that was needed for Mac OS X users was a driver update.
Mightn't the same also be true of the iPhone and 3G?
Perhaps you would like to join in:
Voice-Unlimited night/weekend 1000 minute voice, unlimited internet
Ajhill - $69
Abster2core - $66
Addabox - $79, at the lowest, no more than $99
Hobbes - 1000 min voice (unlimited night/weekend) + limited data plan $79, + unlimited data plan $99[
Kavik - $99/month for 450 voice minutes w/ unlimited data + 1500 text messages
From Macworld
http://iphone.macworld.com/
"In the comments section of this very blog (and in a follow-up conversation with me), Mac radio host Shawn King reports that AT&T?s monthly unlimited data plan for the iPhone will be $20. AT&T?s current ?SmartPhone Unlimited? plan is ? you guessed it ? $20.
Meanwhile, ?Boy Genius Report? says that according to a ?pretty high up source? the ?iPlan? will ?be around $34.99-$44.99.?
Put them both together and it sounds like we?re talking about $55-65 a month for your iPhone service. Not dirt cheap, but not at all out of line with what people are paying for existing data phone plans."
I just came from my AT&T store and the sales rep as well as the manager gave this news:
1) The voice plans will be the standard ones AT&T offers. See the AT&T website for the different plans and options.
2) The data plans will be at the exact cost of $19.99, $29.99 and $39.99 per month -- and you do NOT have the option of getting no data plan.
3) It is Apple which won't let AT&T disclose what is in these data plans until 6 pm local time Friday. (So they say...)
4) There is a huge banner outside our store saying that unlimited text messages has arrived at AT&T. Obviously this is being added because of Friday's launch of iPhone. When asked if the unlimited text message plan is one of the three that will be offered with iPhone, they could not say.
My guess:
$39.99: Unlimited texting and data
$29.99: Some limit on the amount of data used each month, but unlimited texting
$19.99: Limits on data and texting.
For the lower cost two plans, if you go over the limit you'll have to pay a certain amount extra based on how much over you are.
Sound right to y'all?
I was wrong, and I'm glad!
"...All three plans include unlimited data, Visual Voicemail, 200 SMS text messages, roll-over minutes and unlimited mobile-to-mobile calling..."
Discussion on this forum about it, along with the complete news, is here
I was wrong, and I'm glad!
Uh.... did you check the prices?
How is $59.99 for 200 texts and unlimited data better than $39.99 for unlimited texts and data? And how is $59.99 minimum contract better than $19.99 minimum?
Uh.... did you check the prices?
How is $59.99 for 200 texts and unlimited data better than $39.99 for unlimited texts and data? And how is $59.99 minimum contract better than $19.99 minimum?
$59.99 includes voice. It's not just the data plan.
Well, you need special hardware to do 802.11n wireless, too. Apple didn't officially announce it at the time (worst kept secret in history for anybody running Windows XP on their machines), but that hardware was always present and physically enabled in its Core 2 Duo Macs; all that was needed for Mac OS X users was a driver update.
Mightn't the same also be true of the iPhone and 3G?
Probably not, sad to say.
The likely reason why Apple released a software update for 802.11n AFTER including the 802.11n hardware in later model notebooks was that the 802.11n standard wasn't finished yet (still isn't, it's in 'draft' form right now, but I guess its firm enough that Apple can work with it now).
3G/HSDPA isn't in the same state. As a standard, it's been done for awhile. So there's no reason there for Apple to include the hardware, then do a software update later.
I think people who are hoping for 3G on the first version of the iPhone are engaging in some wishful thinking (I know, I do it too).
Apple will make a 3G iPhone eventually (definitely in time for the Asian release in 2008, because the iPhone will crash and burn in Japan and Korea if it doesn't have it), but this first version just does not seem to have it. Sorry.
PS- I would absolutely love to be wrong about this.
.
I have been waiting 2 years to get an iPhone. I have been able to get by without a cell until about 6 months ago, and I've been able to borrow one for when I need one. I may buy an iPhone if the plan is <$50/month. However, without GPS, I may have to wait. I need GPS and don't want to buy a $200-300 device that doesn't support Macs when I can buy an iPhone that has built in Apple support.
Garmin has announced Mac support for 2 years and still hasn't produced. I would have bought one right away, but forget it if it's available on a phone (like most good phones out there).
Just in case you weren't aware... the iPhone wasn't announced 2 years ago.