1) If true this would be highly improper accounting to the extent that its totally out of character for official Apple pronouncements. Selling to oneself (the retail stores) and claiming sales is fraudulent.
2) Without taking the time to re-listen (I just don't have the time) I believe what was said was 'sales through retail and at&t stores' not to. He was likely excluding on-line as they should not be included until shipped, which couldn't have happened in this 30 hour time-frame.
You're probably right about the Apple stores in transit not being counted, after going back to double check, he specifically says that includes iphones in transit to AT&T stores and din't mention the retail stores.
Apple Inc. said Wednesday that it sold 270,000 iPhones in the final 30 hours of its fiscal third quarter -- the first time the gadgets were available for purchase in the United States.
AT&T said earlier in the week that it activated only 146,000 of the Apple handsets during the first two days, but added that more than 40 percent of those activations were to customers switching their service from a rival carrier.
The difference is surely more extreme. AT&T are analysing 2 days (48 hours) whereas Apple's stats are for just over 1 day (30 hours). If we assume the same rate of sales, then Apple sold closer to 432,000, which closes in on estimates of nearly half a million in the opening weekend.
I assume there were buying options available 24/7.
But since you asked: Oppenheimer did specifically clarify it. Combined with the surmise on my part that Apple's segment classification could be just overly broad (after all, it is booking a non-material $5 million) and given how careful Apple tends to be (or rather, had better be in making a statement to that effect), it is more than likely that I am -- and others are -- right about something in the range of 270,000 being iPhone sales. It is possible that it is slightly lower, but I would venture a guess that it would not be materially so.
So the numbers do not add up and i cannot believe that there are people on this site who have taken the 270k figure and already turned it into 500k after Sundays trading!! Amazing ;-)
So the first thing is important people, all handsets that were sitting unsold in AT&T stores on are counted in this figure, along with all phones that were on route to AT&T stores too. So that 270k figure was not necessarily the amount of phones bought by real customers. And many of the phones sold in AT&T stores after the close of the quarter are phones that have already been accounted for.
Also what the headlines seemed to have missed is that the 270k figure is for IPHONES AND ACCESSORIES, not just iPhones. That means that even if one in five customers bought car charger or a case or a headphone jack or anything else along with their phone then the actuall phones sold is only 220k, if two in five people bought something else then that figure becomes 170k!! And that still includes the phones on the shelf.
Say an average price of $545 per sale, 270k phones would result in $6,131.250 per month bookable revenue, the fact that the recorded revenue was $5m including accessories shows that 270k units sold was not just phones.
So the numbers do not add up and i cannot believe that there are people on this site who have taken the 270k figure and already turned it into 500k after Sundays trading!! Amazing ;-)
So the first thing is important people, all handsets that were sitting unsold in AT&T stores on are counted in this figure, along with all phones that were on route to AT&T stores too. So that 270k figure was not necessarily the amount of phones bought by real customers. And many of the phones sold in AT&T stores after the close of the quarter are phones that have already been accounted for.
Also what the headlines seemed to have missed is that the 270k figure is for IPHONES AND ACCESSORIES, not just iPhones. That means that even if one in five customers bought car charger or a case or a headphone jack or anything else along with their phone then the actuall phones sold is only 220k, if two in five people bought something else then that figure becomes 170k!! And that still includes the phones on the shelf.
Say an average price of $545 per sale, 270k phones would result in $6,131.250 per month bookable revenue, the fact that the recorded revenue was $5m including accessories shows that 270k units sold was not just phones.
I think all of your hypothesizing is a wasted exercise and missing the real news from yesterday. All of the key Apple Execs including SJ said that they expect to report one million iphones sold by the next CC. Given their track record of obfuscated reporting, Apple does not make statements like that unless they know they can deliver. I think they are already close to one million sold and are doing their usual UPOD act.
But since you asked: Oppenheimer did specifically clarify it. Combined with the surmise on my part that Apple's segment classification could be just overly broad (after all, it is booking a non-material $5 million) and given how careful Apple tends to be (or rather, had better be in making a statement to that effect), it is more than likely that I am -- and others are -- right about something in the range of 270,000 being iPhone sales. It is possible that it is slightly lower, but I would venture a guess that it would not be materially so.
Why couldn't you say something like this in the first place? Just telling people they are wrong or just grunting in response is rude and unhelpful, in my opinion, better off left unsaid.
But I am sure we will find out soon enough one way or another, and one of us will be right. It's fine with me if that turns out to be you, but let's be patient.
Why couldn't you say something like this in the first place? Just telling people they are wrong or just grunting in response is rude and unhelpful, in my opinion, better off left unsaid.
Because one, I thought it was fairly obvious; two, something along these lines had been mentioned in another (related, and just prior thread on AI) post; and three, the original post that led to my response was, in my opinion, rude, unhelpful, and better off left unsaid.
Comments
Steviet02,
What exactly are you trying to say in your posts?
Someone was trying to correlate the # of activations to the 270k number. I was pointing out that it also counted stock in transit.
1) If true this would be highly improper accounting to the extent that its totally out of character for official Apple pronouncements. Selling to oneself (the retail stores) and claiming sales is fraudulent.
2) Without taking the time to re-listen (I just don't have the time) I believe what was said was 'sales through retail and at&t stores' not to. He was likely excluding on-line as they should not be included until shipped, which couldn't have happened in this 30 hour time-frame.
You're probably right about the Apple stores in transit not being counted, after going back to double check, he specifically says that includes iphones in transit to AT&T stores and din't mention the retail stores.
Apple Inc. said Wednesday that it sold 270,000 iPhones in the final 30 hours of its fiscal third quarter -- the first time the gadgets were available for purchase in the United States.
AT&T said earlier in the week that it activated only 146,000 of the Apple handsets during the first two days, but added that more than 40 percent of those activations were to customers switching their service from a rival carrier.
The difference is surely more extreme. AT&T are analysing 2 days (48 hours) whereas Apple's stats are for just over 1 day (30 hours). If we assume the same rate of sales, then Apple sold closer to 432,000, which closes in on estimates of nearly half a million in the opening weekend.
I assume there were buying options available 24/7.
Actually, I gave it all the thought it deserved.
But since you asked: Oppenheimer did specifically clarify it. Combined with the surmise on my part that Apple's segment classification could be just overly broad (after all, it is booking a non-material $5 million) and given how careful Apple tends to be (or rather, had better be in making a statement to that effect), it is more than likely that I am -- and others are -- right about something in the range of 270,000 being iPhone sales. It is possible that it is slightly lower, but I would venture a guess that it would not be materially so.
Groan
So the first thing is important people, all handsets that were sitting unsold in AT&T stores on are counted in this figure, along with all phones that were on route to AT&T stores too. So that 270k figure was not necessarily the amount of phones bought by real customers. And many of the phones sold in AT&T stores after the close of the quarter are phones that have already been accounted for.
Also what the headlines seemed to have missed is that the 270k figure is for IPHONES AND ACCESSORIES, not just iPhones. That means that even if one in five customers bought car charger or a case or a headphone jack or anything else along with their phone then the actuall phones sold is only 220k, if two in five people bought something else then that figure becomes 170k!! And that still includes the phones on the shelf.
Say an average price of $545 per sale, 270k phones would result in $6,131.250 per month bookable revenue, the fact that the recorded revenue was $5m including accessories shows that 270k units sold was not just phones.
So the numbers do not add up and i cannot believe that there are people on this site who have taken the 270k figure and already turned it into 500k after Sundays trading!! Amazing ;-)
So the first thing is important people, all handsets that were sitting unsold in AT&T stores on are counted in this figure, along with all phones that were on route to AT&T stores too. So that 270k figure was not necessarily the amount of phones bought by real customers. And many of the phones sold in AT&T stores after the close of the quarter are phones that have already been accounted for.
Also what the headlines seemed to have missed is that the 270k figure is for IPHONES AND ACCESSORIES, not just iPhones. That means that even if one in five customers bought car charger or a case or a headphone jack or anything else along with their phone then the actuall phones sold is only 220k, if two in five people bought something else then that figure becomes 170k!! And that still includes the phones on the shelf.
Say an average price of $545 per sale, 270k phones would result in $6,131.250 per month bookable revenue, the fact that the recorded revenue was $5m including accessories shows that 270k units sold was not just phones.
I think all of your hypothesizing is a wasted exercise and missing the real news from yesterday. All of the key Apple Execs including SJ said that they expect to report one million iphones sold by the next CC. Given their track record of obfuscated reporting, Apple does not make statements like that unless they know they can deliver. I think they are already close to one million sold and are doing their usual UPOD act.
Actually, I gave it all the thought it deserved.
But since you asked: Oppenheimer did specifically clarify it. Combined with the surmise on my part that Apple's segment classification could be just overly broad (after all, it is booking a non-material $5 million) and given how careful Apple tends to be (or rather, had better be in making a statement to that effect), it is more than likely that I am -- and others are -- right about something in the range of 270,000 being iPhone sales. It is possible that it is slightly lower, but I would venture a guess that it would not be materially so.
Why couldn't you say something like this in the first place? Just telling people they are wrong or just grunting in response is rude and unhelpful, in my opinion, better off left unsaid.
Groan
See, e.g.:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=18644
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=668
But I am sure we will find out soon enough one way or another, and one of us will be right. It's fine with me if that turns out to be you, but let's be patient.
Why couldn't you say something like this in the first place? Just telling people they are wrong or just grunting in response is rude and unhelpful, in my opinion, better off left unsaid.
Because one, I thought it was fairly obvious; two, something along these lines had been mentioned in another (related, and just prior thread on AI) post; and three, the original post that led to my response was, in my opinion, rude, unhelpful, and better off left unsaid.
Hope that helps!
-----
It's 270K iPhones. The $5 million in revenue includes recognized
revenue from iPhones and iPhone accessories.
On Jul 26, 2007, at 7:16 AM, ****** wrote:
> Hello Ms. *****:
>
> Could you please confirm if, as Mr. Oppemheimer mentioned during the
> conference call, it was 270,000 iPhones that were sold in the first 30
> hours.
>
> Your data sheet says 270,000 'iPhones and related products.'
>
> Many thanks!
-----
There. I guess that (sort of) settles it?