The MultiTouch Strategy: Apple vs Microsoft

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 61
    dudditsduddits Posts: 260member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    No, how about if the next iPod is Multi-touch your sig for a moths reads; "Ireland is a legend, go to Click a Shamrock (dot) com, buy a shamrock and support this guy." And if you are right, and the new iPods is clickwheel, my sig will read; what ever you like for a month?



    As a suggestion for your sig if he wins:



    "I am charging an exorbitantly high price for the American Flag option on my Click-a-Shamrock site as my own personal way to punish Americans for getting the iPhone before we do and thus publicly lick my all too open wounds of iPhone-envy."
  • Reply 42 of 61
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    A suggestion for this thread: Lets stay on topic. The MultiTouch Strategy
  • Reply 43 of 61
    irelandireland Posts: 17,785member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Duddits View Post


    As a suggestion for your sig if he wins:



    "I am charging an exorbitantly high price for the American Flag option on my Click-a-Shamrock site as my own personal way to punish Americans for getting the iPhone before we do and thus publicly lick my all too open wounds of iPhone-envy."



    Ha ha ha!!



    It's actually more expensive cause it stands out more than most of the others.
  • Reply 44 of 61
    dudditsduddits Posts: 260member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    A suggestion for this thread: Lets stay on topic. The MultiTouch Strategy



    This is a multi-topic thread in celebration of multi-touch. Actually, it's a multi-topic thread in celebration of the multiple multi-touch strategies.



    Multi Multi Multi!



    Whatever happened to the days when people did one thing at one time with one finger?



  • Reply 45 of 61
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Duddits View Post


    Whatever happened to the days when people did one thing at one time with one finger?







    I agree. Have you ever tried to pick your nose with more than one finger? It's impossible!
  • Reply 46 of 61
    irelandireland Posts: 17,785member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I agree. Have you ever tried to pick your nose with more than one finger? It's impossible!



    You wouldn't believe me if I told you how close I was to giving a very similar response.
  • Reply 47 of 61
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I agree. Have you ever tried to pick your nose with more than one finger? It's impossible!



    A few weeks ago, I saw one of my students pick his nose with a paper clip. He was using THREE fingers to hold the clip, I think. Okay, so I'm a wise a--.



    I was afraid he was going to hurt himself, and I stopped teaching and stared at him. Other students turned to see what I was staring at. Disrupted the whole class. Even with everyone looking at him, he kept doing it.
  • Reply 48 of 61
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Time to close this one down. Threads over.
  • Reply 49 of 61
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post


    It appears this is going to be one of the next 'big' battles in the Industry and Microsoft have got a good chance of stealing Mind share by introducing the Surface table followed by lame computer implementations, maybe before Apple get to market.



    How does Microsoft "steal" a technology it spent a lot of R&D money into? Did Apple hire Bill Buxton? No. Microsoft research did. Did Apple show multitouch technology in 2004? No. Microsoft research did.



    Sony and Mitsubishi also have spent a lot of R&D money into multi-touch. Mitsubishi has a multi-touch table setup already known as DiamondTouch developed out at MERL.



    And not surprisingly Xerox PARC had an early projection multi-touch system in the late 80s early 90s.



    Vinea
  • Reply 50 of 61
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    ............Did Apple show multitouch technology in 2004? No. Microsoft research did..............

    Vinea



    Just to put some perspective on this. Does Apple ever really show anything before it's ready for it's introduction?
  • Reply 51 of 61
    I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet...



    Microsoft Surface is not a multi-touch screen technology at all. The way it tracks multiple touches on a surface is by having several optical cameras under the screen. This enables it to recreate some aspects of true multi-touch screens (like iPhone's) but hopelessly locks it in a giant tub big enough to house these cameras.



    If all you want a surface to do is track multiple inputs, then MS Surface qualifies. But if you're concerned with actual use of this in portable, desktop, and other non-huge devices, MS Surface is a joke.



    It's also worth mentioning that Microsoft's demo videos are quite obviously mocked-up; a real Surface tub won't work like that at all. Example: placing a digital camera on it will not instantly fan out your freshly taken photos. How could it? It doesn't matter what surface technology you have - photos still need to be transferred, and that's a slow process no matter the camera or computer you're connecting it to.



    Expect MS Surface to become a carnival attraction. Compared to it, the Segway looks like a brilliant consumer product.
  • Reply 52 of 61
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    Just to put some perspective on this. Does Apple ever really show anything before it's ready for it's introduction?



    The point isn't whether Apple has been doing secret research but rather that MS has been doing MT research for years.



    Vinea
  • Reply 53 of 61
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post


    I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet...



    Microsoft Surface is not a multi-touch screen technology at all. The way it tracks multiple touches on a surface is by having several optical cameras under the screen. This enables it to recreate some aspects of true multi-touch screens (like iPhone's) but hopelessly locks it in a giant tub big enough to house these cameras.



    Funny...that's exactly how Jeff Han's multi-touch system works along with very many other MT systems.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwA3...ch%2Dlaptop%2F

    So much for "locked into a giant tub".



    Quote:

    If all you want a surface to do is track multiple inputs, then MS Surface qualifies. But if you're concerned with actual use of this in portable, desktop, and other non-huge devices, MS Surface is a joke.



    Multiple inputs...how odd that sounds like...multiple touches...



    The importance of surface isn't the hardware that they've shown but the SDK they're going to release in April. If the SDK can provide gesture recognition in a standard way then that simplifies development for a multi-touch enabled OS. Coupled with WPF it gives developers a rich set of tools to rapidly develop multi-touch aware applications using familiar tools.



    Quote:

    It's also worth mentioning that Microsoft's demo videos are quite obviously mocked-up; a real Surface tub won't work like that at all. Example: placing a digital camera on it will not instantly fan out your freshly taken photos. How could it? It doesn't matter what surface technology you have - photos still need to be transferred, and that's a slow process no matter the camera or computer you're connecting it to.



    Its a Wi-Fi camera. They use a fiducial (probably a barcode) on the bottom of the camera to identify the camera, connect via WiFi and download the pictures. If the resolution is low enough then it's not hard to do quickly. Given that they've done this live (snap picture, put on Surface, fan out) it's obviously possible with the right camera settings...for example the Nikons can upload at 1024x768 to Flickr to reduce file size/transfer time.



    Demo for sure. Mocked up? Not quite.



    Quote:

    Expect MS Surface to become a carnival attraction. Compared to it, the Segway looks like a brilliant consumer product.



    Expect more clueless opinions about multi-touch from the peanut gallery.



    Vinea
  • Reply 54 of 61
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    The point isn't whether Apple has been doing secret research but rather that MS has been doing MT research for years.



    Vinea



    I never said Apple was doing secret research. All I said was they never show anything. It's not a big shock.
  • Reply 55 of 61
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post


    I started this thread to see if anyone else is worried about Apple potentially missing the boat with the new MultiTouch technology and not adopting it in some way for the Mac platform. The latest rumors seem to suggest that the iMac (and the new iPod) is going to be lacking MT.



    Although Microsofts Surface is just a 'table' I happen to think it's still pretty cool and maybe even innovative in terms of the way it connects to devices on the surface (although i'm not quite sure how and when these devices are going to be equipped to do that).



    It appears this is going to be one of the next 'big' battles in the Industry and Microsoft have got a good chance of stealing Mind share by introducing the Surface table followed by lame computer implementations, maybe before Apple get to market.



    It doesn't really matter who gets there first but then again it's always about the mind share so I guess in that way it does. People will see the MultiTouch interaction and directly link it to Microsoft all over again unless Apple have got some tasty new products up their sleeve. I'm hoping



    January 2008 - MultiTouch Tablet would be nice



    I completely (sorta) disagree with this. Heck the iphone itself hardly uses multi-touch. Now, an iMac with a simple touchscreen, that I'd buy. It'd be perfect for a making it a ubiquitous home entertainment computer (I have an iMac G4 with a third party touch screen to do exactly this). The primary use for multi-touch on the iphone is to do scaling, which with a large screened computer is obviously not nearly as useful.



    I think what makes sense is for Apple to add simple touch capabilities as an optional add-on to the iMacs and PowerMacs.. It can be multi-touch if they want (assuming that it won't add substantially to the cost over a "single-touch" screen.



    Remember, touch based computers have been around forever and they've yet to make a breakthrough, primarily because the touch interface does not adequately address the number one use for an input device on a computer, to enter text. So unless Apple (or someone) can figure out how to utilize a tech. like multi-touch to help with that, it will just be another whizzbang feature on a device that will only serve a niche.
  • Reply 56 of 61
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    How does Microsoft "steal" a technology it spent a lot of R&D money into? Did Apple hire Bill Buxton? No. Microsoft research did. Did Apple show multitouch technology in 2004? No. Microsoft research did.



    Sony and Mitsubishi also have spent a lot of R&D money into multi-touch. Mitsubishi has a multi-touch table setup already known as DiamondTouch developed out at MERL.



    And not surprisingly Xerox PARC had an early projection multi-touch system in the late 80s early 90s.



    Vinea



    That's wonderful, too bad they don't know how to implement it into a useful tool.
  • Reply 57 of 61
    dudditsduddits Posts: 260member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post


    Remember, touch based computers have been around forever and they've yet to make a breakthrough, primarily because the touch interface does not adequately address the number one use for an input device on a computer, to enter text. So unless Apple (or someone) can figure out how to utilize a tech. like multi-touch to help with that, it will just be another whizzbang feature on a device that will only serve a niche.



    That's a tail wagging the dog argument though. And it pains me to say that because, you know, I'm a cat.



    Text is the number one "currency" on a computer not because of some transcendent primacy of text (although you could make that argument and no one would giggle) but because the computer input device most widely used today is a keyboard. Keyboards produce text. Lots of keyboards hence lots of text.



    When the primary computer input device was cards, numbers were more prevalent more than text.



    When the primary computer input becomes speech, language in the form of audio will be more prevalent than text.



    So in a sense, the input device itself determines the most popular computer currency.



    Multitouch enables the manipulation of images and controls, so for applications that rely on the simultaneous manipulation of multiple controls or images, multitouch will be a monumental improvement over keyboards and "keyboard shortcuts." With widely-implemented multitouch, applications that rely on images and multiple controls will flourish at the expense of text.



    I know I may just be a cat, but I like to record and produce music from time to time. A multitouch digital audio workstation would be the killer app for the music world. I'm sure it's only a matter of time and I'm looking forward to it.
  • Reply 58 of 61
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post


    I started this thread to see if anyone else is worried about Apple potentially missing the boat with the new MultiTouch technology and not adopting it in some way for the Mac platform. The latest rumors seem to suggest that the iMac (and the new iPod) is going to be lacking MT.



    Although Microsofts Surface is just a 'table' I happen to think it's still pretty cool and maybe even innovative in terms of the way it connects to devices on the surface (although i'm not quite sure how and when these devices are going to be equipped to do that).



    It appears this is going to be one of the next 'big' battles in the Industry and Microsoft have got a good chance of stealing Mind share by introducing the Surface table followed by lame computer implementations, maybe before Apple get to market.



    It doesn't really matter who gets there first but then again it's always about the mind share so I guess in that way it does. People will see the MultiTouch interaction and directly link it to Microsoft all over again unless Apple have got some tasty new products up their sleeve. I'm hoping



    January 2008 - MultiTouch Tablet would be nice



    You assume Microsoft has a strategy. Microsoft may be putzing around with multi-touch, but implementing in any meaningful way will be the trick. As I see it, Microsoft doesn't have that great a track record in doing this, while Apple on the other hand seems fairly adept in incorporating their own technology or other technologies in meaningful useful ways.
  • Reply 59 of 61
    dappledapple Posts: 44member
    Viva la Revolution! It is all patented. Paradigm shifted.
  • Reply 60 of 61
    coreycorey Posts: 165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PBG4 Dude View Post


    I'm not sure multitouch is the best interface for the iPod. Sure, it's the best whiz-bang interface, but I'm not sure it's the best. Yes, I own an iPhone so I deal with pulling it out of my pocket to diddle with controls every day. Compared to my iPod where I could operate it through my shirt pocket there is a definite decrease in ease of use for music functions.



    I'm sure the MT iPod will sell in droves anyway though.



    They could always put basic controls on the headphones.
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