Should apple include a numeric pad on the wireless keyboard?

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    I'm still paranoid. I know I'm going to attacked for this, but I have to add my 2 cents here.



    I've always thought extended keyboards were lopsided. When the board is centered with the monitor, the letter keys are too far to the left to be comfortable. When I've centered just the letter key part of the board, my coworkers say it doesn't look right. The devil with what it looks like. It's easier to use.



    I think the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys should be on the left side, so the board would be balanced and, for me, would be easier to use. Who said that everything should be done by the right hand - mouse, number pad, arrow keys, etc? I've been cussing the current key layout for as long as I can remember - since the early '80's.



    Well, my pappy and his pappy and his pappy allus did it thet-a-way and what's good enuff fer them's good enuff fer me. Hell, some keyboards still have a scroll key and other cr_p keys on them.

    Why is there a return key and an enter key when they do the same thing. I'm referring to the names not that there's two of them.

    What's the num lock/ clear button for? The one on my Mac board doesn't lock or clear anything. Why can't the Function keys be programmed since they don't accomplish much anyway?



    Well, I'm glad that's out of my system. Gentlemen, start your (flaming) engines.
  • Reply 22 of 38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eros View Post


    Agree, portability=wireless=less of the un-needed.



    Excuse the dumb question but, I am about to order the imac with the wireless keyboard. It says that an existing keyboard and mouse is required for setup. Does that mean, if I choose the wireless keyboard and mouse they wont actually function from the initial setup? Sorry, first mac, first wireless device.



    Thanks



    Yes, that's because you have to set up the bluetooth connection to use them which requires input devices (keyboard and mouse)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I've always thought extended keyboards were lopsided. When the board is centered with the monitor, the letter keys are too far to the left to be comfortable. When I've centered just the letter key part of the board, my coworkers say it doesn't look right. The devil with what it looks like. It's easier to use.



    umm... did you just argue both sides of that and come to a conclusion?



    Quote:

    I think the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys should be on the left side, so the board would be balanced and, for me, would be easier to use. Who said that everything should be done by the right hand - mouse, number pad, arrow keys, etc? I've been cussing the current key layout for as long as I can remember - since the early '80's.



    you mean like a left-handed keyboard?





    Quote:

    Well, my pappy and his pappy and his pappy allus did it thet-a-way and what's good enuff fer them's good enuff fer me. Hell, some keyboards still have a scroll key and other cr_p keys on them.

    Why is there a return key and an enter key when they do the same thing. I'm referring to the names not that there's two of them.



    Because sometimes they actually do different things.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_key (check out the carriage return key for origin)



    Quote:

    In most software, they behave the same, but on the Adium software, the Return key sends the message whilst the Enter key inserts a line feed (like cmd+return).



    Quote:

    What's the num lock/ clear button for? The one on my Mac board doesn't lock or clear anything. Why can't the Function keys be programmed since they don't accomplish much anyway?



    Numlock is used to allow access to the numpad as opposed to the numpad being used for arrow keys

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Num_Lock

    The clear key is the same as the numlock key but since nowadays the numlock usually doesn't do anything, the name is changed as not to confuse people. It also has other uses such as clearing the calculator as mentioned by Galley.



    The function keys can be programmed. Go to Sys. Prefs.-->Keyboard % Mouse-->Keyboard Shortcuts, then hit the '+' button, pick the app(s) you want it to work with and choose a function key to do it.



    Sorry, I'm relatively new to flaming, so if someone else can be more sarcastic and sardonic about this, please feel free to do so.
  • Reply 23 of 38
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post


    you mean like a left-handed keyboard?





    No, I think he meant that if the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys were on the left, but the number pad stayed on the right, the keyboard would then be balanced, as the "main" QWERTY part of the keyboard would be in the middle. It's an interesting idea.
  • Reply 24 of 38
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    My setup is balanced and IMO it's about as efficient and ergonomic overall as you can get before jumping into $100+ ergo keyboards. I've had the keyboard and Powermate for two years. The mouse position is important and it's usually almost scraping the keyboard, closer than in the picture. I only need 20cm of hand movement and no moving of the elbow to switch between typing and the mouse on the right hand, or between typing and a quick adjustment on the Powermate on the left. 2000dpi on the mouse means I'd have to move the mouse for a mere inch to cover the full desktop at 1:1 mapping - OS X has very lacking mouse adjustment options though, and that setting is not possible AFAIK even by commandline hacking.



    The Apple wireless board looks like the best thing (and not just keyboard) they have made in a good while. There are way too few keyboards that are free from the numeric pad curse. I might well buy one, need to try one at the store though. Is the key mechanism exactly the same as in a Macbook?
  • Reply 25 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post




    umm... did you just argue both sides of that and come to a conclusion?







    you mean like a left-handed keyboard?









    Because sometimes they actually do different things.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_key (check out the carriage return key for origin)











    Numlock is used to allow access to the numpad as opposed to the numpad being used for arrow keys

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Num_Lock

    The clear key is the same as the numlock key but since nowadays the numlock usually doesn't do anything, the name is changed as not to confuse people. It also has other uses such as clearing the calculator as mentioned by Galley.



    The function keys can be programmed. Go to Sys. Prefs.-->Keyboard % Mouse-->Keyboard Shortcuts, then hit the '+' button, pick the app(s) you want it to work with and choose a function key to do it.



    Sorry, I'm relatively new to flaming, so if someone else can be more sarcastic and sardonic about this, please feel free to do so.



    Well, I learned something new today. That's what comes of not "RTFM'. Of course, I've been told by other members of this august forum that a manual isn't needed. Just fly by the seat of your pants - so to speak.



    To your first question - no, I didn't just come to that conclusion. I keep moving my work keyboard, so that the letter keys are centered, and whoever uses it after me moves it back so that the keyboard itself is centered. I can't even go to lunch without someone moving it. Not a biggy, but annoying just the same.



    No, I didn't mean to shift the number keys and arrow keys over to the left; that would just unbalance the board in the other direction. I meant leave the number pad on the right and move the arrow keys, etc. to the left.



    My apple keyboard num lock does not do anything as far as I know, but I will try to follow your suggestions. I'm always ready to learn new things - like how do you reply to a post in parts as you did. I haven't figured that out yet. Please educate me. I really want to know.



    The best thing you've suggested is that the Function keys can be programed (or as some spell it - programmed - both are probably right. I just threw that in because someone is bound to call me on it).



    I really appreciate the fact that you explained to my ignorance without slashing my throat. Thanks.



    BTW, did you read a manual or just learn by trial and error? Where do you find the time to learn all this and

    still have time to use this forum and do all your other chores? I seem to be falling behind on my life's treadmill no matter how fast I run.
  • Reply 26 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    No, I think he meant that if the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys were on the left, but the number pad stayed on the right, the keyboard would then be balanced, as the "main" QWERTY part of the keyboard would be in the middle. It's an interesting idea.



    Thanks for sticking up for me, Mr. H. I guess it's too soon to call you Dr. H. Keep me posted.
  • Reply 27 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    My setup is balanced and IMO it's about as efficient and ergonomic overall as you can get before jumping into $100+ ergo keyboards. I've had the keyboard and Powermate for two years. The mouse position is important and it's usually almost scraping the keyboard, closer than in the picture. I only need 20cm of hand movement and no moving of the elbow to switch between typing and the mouse on the right hand, or between typing and a quick adjustment on the Powermate on the left. 2000dpi on the mouse means I'd have to move the mouse for a mere inch to cover the full desktop at 1:1 mapping - OS X has very lacking mouse adjustment options though, and that setting is not possible AFAIK even by commandline hacking.



    The Apple wireless board looks like the best thing (and not just keyboard) they have made in a good while. There are way too few keyboards that are free from the numeric pad curse. I might well buy one, need to try one at the store though. Is the key mechanism exactly the same as in a Macbook?



    Because my keyboard is shifted to the right and I don't use a mouse pad (optical mouse), my mouse DOES scrape, well bump anyway, the keyboard. I use a Logitech mouse and, like yours, I can sweep across a 22" monitor and into a second 22" monitor with very little finger (no wrist) motion. The heel of my hand is resting on my desk. The only problem I have with that is sometimes I can't find the cursor, especially when I first wake up the computer. Sometimes it's on the second monitor which hasn't been turned on yet. Two 22" monitors is a lot of real estate for the cursor to get lost in. If someone knows a way to make the cursor flash or something when the computer wakes up, please pass it on. That would beat waving the mouse around until the cursor comes into view.
  • Reply 28 of 38
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I've always thought extended keyboards were lopsided. When the board is centered with the monitor, the letter keys are too far to the left to be comfortable.



    I can't agree more. I have a pull-out keyboard drawer. With the mouse on the right, a full size keyboard puts the alpha keys way off center to the left. So I've been using a keyboard which at least forgoes the home/page up/page down/arrow keys section. Even that's not good enough so I ordered two of Apple's new wireless keyboards within minutes of reading about them. (The second is for my HTPC mini.)



    I didn't vote in this poll because I think Apple should offer all four kinds of keyboards; two wired and two wireless. I'd like to have one with the wireless layout, only wired, so it has the USB 2 ports. If these new keyboards prove to be popular, I'd expect two more to be offered before long.
  • Reply 29 of 38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    My apple keyboard num lock does not do anything as far as I know, but I will try to follow your suggestions. I'm always ready to learn new things - like how do you reply to a post in parts as you did. I haven't figured that out yet. Please educate me. I really want to know.



    Notice how whenever you click on the 'quote' button, there appears at the beginning a '[' then 'QUOTE' then ']' (obviously without any spaces or quotes). At the end there is the same thing with a '/' before the 'QUOTE' (you can see for yourself whenever you quote someone). So, by typing this in around whatever blocks of text you want, and then typing a response in between these blocks, you can reply in parts.



    Quote:

    BTW, did you read a manual or just learn by trial and error? Where do you find the time to learn all this and still have time to use this forum and do all your other chores? I seem to be falling behind on my life's treadmill no matter how fast I run.



    I learn most everything by trial and error, asking questions in places such as this, and google. And since I am a high school student, and it is still summer vacation, I have few other 'chores' to do. Hence why I can waste so much time here.
  • Reply 30 of 38
    bacillusbacillus Posts: 313member
    no, but they should include a track ball or pad, as others have said
  • Reply 31 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post


    Notice how whenever you click on the 'quote' button, there appears at the beginning a '[' then 'QUOTE' then ']' (obviously without any spaces or quotes). At the end there is the same thing with a '/' before the 'QUOTE' (you can see for yourself whenever you quote someone). So, by typing this in around whatever blocks of text you want, and then typing a response in between these blocks, you can reply in parts.







    I learn most everything by trial and error, asking questions in places such as this, and google. And since I am a high school student, and it is still summer vacation, I have few other 'chores' to do. Hence why I can waste so much time here.



    Thanks. I love this situation - a student teaching a teacher. I'd like a lot of students like you in my college classes. So many students I try to teach just want a grade; they're not interested in learning.
  • Reply 32 of 38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Well at least they could offer two wireless versions. One with a number-pad for $10 more. It would keep everyone happy.



    Bingo. I would purchase both - a numpad and non-numpad version. When I do data entry, I make many fewer errors with the number pad, but for writing papers, the smaller keyboard is simpler and easier to balance on my lap.
  • Reply 33 of 38
    I can't imagine paying bills, doing invoices and all the business side of freelancing without the numberpad. I would have bought a wireless version had they offered it. So Apple lost a little money on me.
  • Reply 34 of 38
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    I can't imagine paying bills, doing invoices and all the business side of freelancing without the numberpad.



    I agree, if you do bookkeeping regularly, a number pad is almost essential.
  • Reply 35 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    I can't imagine paying bills, doing invoices and all the business side of freelancing without the numberpad. I would have bought a wireless version had they offered it. So Apple lost a little money on me.



    Doing accounting without sitting right in front of a computer is somewhat unusual. The wireless keyboard is better suited for sitting on the couch doing more casual computing.



    I ordered a wireless keyboard with my Mac Pro which in hindsight was a mistake because I don't use it at any distance from the computer, and it is slow to wake up when you turn it on in the morning, which is annoying. Next time I will order a wired keyboard for business computing. A wireless mouse is useful though because a wired one sometimes gets snagged or tangled.



    Some people just want to eliminate all wires for esthetic reasons but that is somewhat of a secondary concern for me. The new wireless keyboards may a little better in terms of the sleeping issue but I haven't used one yet.
  • Reply 36 of 38
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Doing accounting without sitting right in front of a computer is somewhat unusual. The wireless keyboard is better suited for sitting on the couch doing more casual computing.



    I ordered a wireless keyboard with my Mac Pro which in hindsight was a mistake because I don't use it at any distance from the computer, and it is slow to wake up when you turn it on in the morning, which is annoying. Next time I will order a wired keyboard for business computing. A wireless mouse is useful though because a wired one sometimes gets snagged or tangled.



    Some people just want to eliminate all wires for esthetic reasons but that is somewhat of a secondary concern for me. The new wireless keyboards may a little better in terms of the sleeping issue but I haven't used one yet.



    I agree. For years, I used a wireless keyboard with a PC. But it was in a keyboard drawer (which made no sense except esthetically -big deal.) Of course, the drawer itself made no sense because it centered the keyboard which forced the typist to move off center to the left in order to use the alpha keys. I ended up moving the display to the left.



    I did try to use the keyboard on my lap, which was awkward, and on a keyboard stand a couple of feet from the display (needed stronger glasses to see the display). My current set up is on the desk in front of the display. The keyboard is wired, but my mouse, like yours, is wireless. Best options for me. Others may feel differently. As I mentioned in another post, the new wireless keyboard is more easily centered, but that's not enough reason for me to buy one. The few inches of cord showing does not bother me since I don't have to drag it around like a mouse wired mouse.
  • Reply 37 of 38
    dudditsduddits Posts: 260member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    I think a better question is should apple have a wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad?



    You got that right, mate!
  • Reply 38 of 38
    the num pad might be under used for english keyboards, but in france for example, the numbers in the row above the letters are used with the shift key (seeing as accented letters and punctuation are used more often). In the end you use the numpad for all numbers.
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