There's always bugs. If you want 'all bugs gone' then it won't ship at all, ever.
There's always design compromises too. You will never see their 'best design'.
Here's a question that's just for my knowledge. What reasons would there be for Apple NOT ship their best design. Can you give us some sort of example? I hear you already commenting "Time." But other than that, what would be a reason to not ship the best design?
I wish a developer whose used the latest Leopard build would opine whether a delay is in the best interests of Mac users. Right now we're all guessing.
My guess is that every area has issues and as they wind down development, they need to focus their testing on specific areas and are trying to figure out which areas need the most improvement / testing.
No way do they miss october. They announced it to the street and Jobs has mentioned that date as a hard date. If they miss, it means they lose $$$.
Let's not get all upset about this news either. This is a new version which is radically different (even if end users don't think so).
lots of performance tweaks under the hood, a total rewrite of animation services, a "new" finder, an ugly menu bar (I bet someone's already coded a hack to bring the old one back), and a new dock with updated Icons.
Leopard on time is not too much to ask. A minitower is. A minitower is a niche product. Sorry.
Apple's never done this before, yet people conclude with certainty that it means a delay? No, the size of their bug database would indicate a delay, which we have no idea how large or small it is.
A survey of what you like and don't like only tells Apple how to better market the features.
I would have to disagree with that. The MacPro is too much for too many people, the MacMini is too little for too many people for example all I need is a Mac where I can add two monitors. Not an iMac because I cannot stack the monitors next to each other like mac displays, and not a MacBook for the same reason and because it's not comfortable, and definitely not a MacPro because it is too expensive for my needs.
The best solution for us "niche" users is something little bigger than the mini where we have a pci slot for an extra video-card or whatever we need to use it for.
I would rather have another delay than a system that ƒ#@¥ up my computer. It's not good to have a delay but it is terrible to launch a system that should 'just work' and have it bomb. I don't want to be a beta tester with my computer I just want it when it's ready for prime time. I'm excited about Leopard but happy with Tiger until 10.5 is ready. Do the right thing Apple.
As a developer I was surprised when the survey hit my mailbox. Leopard is an evolution not a revolutionary upgrade. There are lots of improvements under the hood but people don't necessarily buy what's under the hood. I personally think that Leopard maybe delayed until 2008 when they can add some features that will really differentiate them. Another thing that leads me to believe it will be delayed was the silence around Leopard at the recent intro of the new iMac's.
As a developer I was surprised when the survey hit my mailbox. Leopard is an evolution not a revolutionary upgrade. There are lots of improvements under the hood but people don't necessarily buy what's under the hood. I personally think that Leopard maybe delayed until 2008 when they can add some features that will really differentiate them.
how about the new mail app, the to-do server, time-machine, Spaces, the new Dock, Leopard Server has Spotlight Server that can instantaneously search terabytes of PDF data on RAID drives, and so on
All these are important features for an everyday user, I would definitely be taking advantage of those features.
how about the new mail app, the to-do server, time-machine, Spaces, the new Dock, Leopard Server has Spotlight Server that can instantaneously search terabytes of PDF data on RAID drives, and so on
All these are important features for an everyday user, I would definitely be taking advantage of those features.
Oddly, most of the things that really interest me with Leopard are on the server side... If we get a Mac server in our office, we will be moving 25% of our desktops and laptops over to Mac's at about the same time.
I still dream that Apple is serious about the server market and linking the iPhone to that market... and will magically come out with a competitor to RIMM's BES.
Take a look around every single other computer manufacturer that makes dekstop computers, and you will find that actually, very small form-factor PCs (like the Mac Mini) and AIO PCs (like the iMac) are niche, and that the mini-tower form-factor is by far and away the most popular/common form-factor. Hence, not niche, but the opposite: mainstream.
It wouldn't bother me if they said MWSF, cause I'd rather see all bugs gone, and the best design they can do.
Okay I'm running 10.4.10 on my system which means Apple patched Tiger a bunch (do the math) of times since its release. Now how on earth can we expect Leopard to be release bug free? Tiger was a nice improvement over 10.3 and even with a bunch of bugs I was more than happy to run it on my Macs these past couple of years. Apple will ship 10.5 on time meaning October, the survey could just be a head start on 10.5.1 update.
I'm guessing it's nearly ready to roll, but they want the "it's buggy" crowd to
spell out exactly what's buggy, instead of just tossing buggy comments out
here and there.
If they get a lot of "it's great" feedback, and a few specific areas to look at weaknesses,
then it will confirm the nearly-ready-to-roll status.
If they get a lot of "IT'S BUGGY EVERYWHERE!!" feedback, they can confirm,
and then maybe we'll see delays.
I'm betting on the former scenario, and not just because I'm naturally
optimistic! I predict no more delays.
I agree, I don't read this as a definite delay, I think they just want to nail down the problem areas and stop working on things that are ahead of the Tiger experience, and focus on the items that are behind.
Far from being a predictor of a delay, I see this as a confirmation for users that it will ship on time, and also partly as a marketing tactic since the form is open to the public.
Okay I'm running 10.4.10 on my system which means Apple patched Tiger a bunch (do the math) of times since its release. Now how on earth can we expect Leopard to be release bug free?
Figure of speech my friend. Shall we say 'stable' then.. now you happy?
The people thinking it'll be delayed are probably supposing that all of the developers are going to say that Leopard is worse off than Tiger. My guess is that Apple has been dealing with a developer or two who have been having problems of their own and the vast majority have been just fine. By having all of the developers sound off on all of these issues, Apple will be able to look at the couple of developers making the noise and say, "The bugs must be in your software, not ours."
The pure optimist would suggest that having Apple ask developers to rate everything would mean that Leopard is done and that they think it's great as it is and just want confirmation of that from the developers in order to ship early.
Until we know what all the developers responded, it's impossible to know the state of Leopard as seen from their perspective IMHO.
It could be the opposite as well. Apple could be having a lot of problems and is trying to identify which are the worst, and which are the least.
The survey could be written so as to attempt to conceal that concern.
Comments
There's always bugs. If you want 'all bugs gone' then it won't ship at all, ever.
There's always design compromises too. You will never see their 'best design'.
Here's a question that's just for my knowledge. What reasons would there be for Apple NOT ship their best design. Can you give us some sort of example? I hear you already commenting "Time." But other than that, what would be a reason to not ship the best design?
No way do they miss october. They announced it to the street and Jobs has mentioned that date as a hard date. If they miss, it means they lose $$$.
Let's not get all upset about this news either. This is a new version which is radically different (even if end users don't think so).
lots of performance tweaks under the hood, a total rewrite of animation services, a "new" finder, an ugly menu bar (I bet someone's already coded a hack to bring the old one back), and a new dock with updated Icons.
That's a lot for an upgrade.
Leopard on time is not too much to ask. A minitower is. A minitower is a niche product. Sorry.
Apple's never done this before, yet people conclude with certainty that it means a delay? No, the size of their bug database would indicate a delay, which we have no idea how large or small it is.
A survey of what you like and don't like only tells Apple how to better market the features.
I would have to disagree with that. The MacPro is too much for too many people, the MacMini is too little for too many people for example all I need is a Mac where I can add two monitors. Not an iMac because I cannot stack the monitors next to each other like mac displays, and not a MacBook for the same reason and because it's not comfortable, and definitely not a MacPro because it is too expensive for my needs.
The best solution for us "niche" users is something little bigger than the mini where we have a pci slot for an extra video-card or whatever we need to use it for.
I would rather have another delay than a system that ƒ#@¥ up my computer. It's not good to have a delay but it is terrible to launch a system that should 'just work' and have it bomb. I don't want to be a beta tester with my computer I just want it when it's ready for prime time. I'm excited about Leopard but happy with Tiger until 10.5 is ready. Do the right thing Apple.
As a developer I was surprised when the survey hit my mailbox. Leopard is an evolution not a revolutionary upgrade. There are lots of improvements under the hood but people don't necessarily buy what's under the hood. I personally think that Leopard maybe delayed until 2008 when they can add some features that will really differentiate them. Another thing that leads me to believe it will be delayed was the silence around Leopard at the recent intro of the new iMac's.
As a developer I was surprised when the survey hit my mailbox. Leopard is an evolution not a revolutionary upgrade. There are lots of improvements under the hood but people don't necessarily buy what's under the hood. I personally think that Leopard maybe delayed until 2008 when they can add some features that will really differentiate them.
how about the new mail app, the to-do server, time-machine, Spaces, the new Dock, Leopard Server has Spotlight Server that can instantaneously search terabytes of PDF data on RAID drives, and so on
All these are important features for an everyday user, I would definitely be taking advantage of those features.
Halloween.
Hopefully it's just April Fools.
I just want leopard, and a minitower... now that isn't asking for much is it Apple? Come on!
minitower? It looks like you're going to have to turn a mini up on it's side if you want a minitower.
how about the new mail app, the to-do server, time-machine, Spaces, the new Dock, Leopard Server has Spotlight Server that can instantaneously search terabytes of PDF data on RAID drives, and so on
All these are important features for an everyday user, I would definitely be taking advantage of those features.
Oddly, most of the things that really interest me with Leopard are on the server side... If we get a Mac server in our office, we will be moving 25% of our desktops and laptops over to Mac's at about the same time.
I still dream that Apple is serious about the server market and linking the iPhone to that market... and will magically come out with a competitor to RIMM's BES.
A minitower is a niche product.
Take a look around every single other computer manufacturer that makes dekstop computers, and you will find that actually, very small form-factor PCs (like the Mac Mini) and AIO PCs (like the iMac) are niche, and that the mini-tower form-factor is by far and away the most popular/common form-factor. Hence, not niche, but the opposite: mainstream.
spell out exactly what's buggy, instead of just tossing buggy comments out
here and there.
If they get a lot of "it's great" feedback, and a few specific areas to look at weaknesses,
then it will confirm the nearly-ready-to-roll status.
If they get a lot of "IT'S BUGGY EVERYWHERE!!" feedback, they can confirm,
and then maybe we'll see delays.
I'm betting on the former scenario, and not just because I'm naturally
optimistic! I predict no more delays.
I just want leopard, and a minitower... now that isn't asking for much is it Apple? Come on!
Word up homes!
Leopard on time is not too much to ask. A minitower is. A minitower is a niche product. Sorry.
I'm all for you not thinking they'll make one but that Sir is an outright lie.
Other than Latops, minitowers are the one computer every manufacturer produces (except Toshiba I think).
Techinically speaking the iMac is the niche product.
It wouldn't bother me if they said MWSF, cause I'd rather see all bugs gone, and the best design they can do.
Okay I'm running 10.4.10 on my system which means Apple patched Tiger a bunch (do the math) of times since its release. Now how on earth can we expect Leopard to be release bug free? Tiger was a nice improvement over 10.3 and even with a bunch of bugs I was more than happy to run it on my Macs these past couple of years. Apple will ship 10.5 on time meaning October, the survey could just be a head start on 10.5.1 update.
I'm guessing it's nearly ready to roll, but they want the "it's buggy" crowd to
spell out exactly what's buggy, instead of just tossing buggy comments out
here and there.
If they get a lot of "it's great" feedback, and a few specific areas to look at weaknesses,
then it will confirm the nearly-ready-to-roll status.
If they get a lot of "IT'S BUGGY EVERYWHERE!!" feedback, they can confirm,
and then maybe we'll see delays.
I'm betting on the former scenario, and not just because I'm naturally
optimistic! I predict no more delays.
I agree, I don't read this as a definite delay, I think they just want to nail down the problem areas and stop working on things that are ahead of the Tiger experience, and focus on the items that are behind.
I wouldn't either since the Finder still seems to be buggy, but I'd definitely like to use time-machine before that.
Use SuperDuper, you'll survive.
There's always bugs. If you want 'all bugs gone' then it won't ship at all, ever.
There's always design compromises too. You will never see their 'best design'.
Get back in bed and slowly get out the other side.
Okay I'm running 10.4.10 on my system which means Apple patched Tiger a bunch (do the math) of times since its release. Now how on earth can we expect Leopard to be release bug free?
Figure of speech my friend. Shall we say 'stable' then.. now you happy?
The people thinking it'll be delayed are probably supposing that all of the developers are going to say that Leopard is worse off than Tiger. My guess is that Apple has been dealing with a developer or two who have been having problems of their own and the vast majority have been just fine. By having all of the developers sound off on all of these issues, Apple will be able to look at the couple of developers making the noise and say, "The bugs must be in your software, not ours."
The pure optimist would suggest that having Apple ask developers to rate everything would mean that Leopard is done and that they think it's great as it is and just want confirmation of that from the developers in order to ship early.
Until we know what all the developers responded, it's impossible to know the state of Leopard as seen from their perspective IMHO.
It could be the opposite as well. Apple could be having a lot of problems and is trying to identify which are the worst, and which are the least.
The survey could be written so as to attempt to conceal that concern.