MacWorld did a video first look and one interesting thing they pointed out is that you can't add events to the Touch calendar as you can in the iPhone. Weird.
No notes, no calendar, no e-mail. No SDK for 3rd party apps. No useful VPN support.
To steal from another poster ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
It's like a Porsche with a 1 gallon fuel tank
That about sums it up. I really hope Apple takes addressing these issues seriously. The iPod touch sounded tempting when announced, but in its current state, it's pretty easy to pass.
BTW, the article seems to make a big deal out of the display stand ... for watching video oriented horizontally, it makes perfect sense, and you don't want it to be huge for travel. One could certainly argue for Bluetooth, a mic (or mic port), or speakers, but the failing in the iPod touch really isn't the hardware or OS ... it's the weak selection of end user apps (especially when you know the others exist) and the lack of support for 3rd party ones.
No notes, no calendar, no e-mail. No SDK for 3rd party apps. No useful VPN support.
To steal from another poster ...
That about sums it up. I really hope Apple takes addressing these issues seriously. The iPod touch sounded tempting when announced, but in its current state, it's pretty easy to pass.
BTW, the article seems to make a big deal out of the display stand ... for watching video oriented horizontally, it makes perfect sense, and you don't want it to be huge for travel. One could certainly argue for Bluetooth, a mic (or mic port), or speakers, but the failing in the iPod touch really isn't the hardware or OS ... it's the weak selection of end user apps (especially when you know the others exist) and the lack of support for 3rd party ones.
The thing is I want my iPod touch to be just that - an iPod, I don't wan't it to be laden with loads of PDA functions - that's my requirement. For me it is not easy to pass, as I suspect it will not be for many others who just want an iPod.
I personally think you're very much in the minority, but even with that much (btw what % of that is video), why the need to have every bit with you at all times, or the aversion to simply be able to manage it through playlists and simple syncs. Of the 50+ iPod owners I know, not one (even audiophiles and DJ's) have over 10GB of music or spoken word.
I use an 80GB 5.5G, currently with 16,422 songs (NOT my entire music collection, but a majority); a 60GB 4G modded (iMod, Redwine Audio) that I use with Apple Lossless (holding about 2,200 songs), and a nano 4GB 1G primarily used with Nike+ system. I have three friends at work, in an office of about 50, using 80GB iPods, and one buying the 160GB. We're all music fans with very little, if any, video. We're also all in our mid to upper 40s, so we've been buying music for a long time.
To me, the most important thing about the iPod is to be able to listen to whatever you want, whenever and wherever you want. Why manage playlists when the hard drive can carry most everything? It's not a need to carry everything with me, but a desire to be able to listen to any music that strikes me, at any time.
The need to carry ones entire collection around is kind of a psychological one. In terms of music, 16GB is maybe 20x more music than one can listen to on a charge, and the excess gives you plenty to skip and plenty of room for videos too. iTunes can easily change out that much data while charging too.
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week. If I have my entire collection with me, then I can decide what music to listen to at the time I actually want to listen to music. What a concept!
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I use an 80GB 5.5G, currently with 16,422 songs (NOT my entire music collection, but a majority); a 60GB 4G modded (iMod, Redwine Audio) that I use with Apple Lossless (holding about 2,200 songs), and a nano 4GB 1G primarily used with Nike+ system. I have three friends at work, in an office of about 50, using 80GB iPods, and one buying the 160GB. We're all music fans with very little, if any, video. We're also all in our mid to upper 40s, so we've been buying music for a long time.
To me, the most important thing about the iPod is to be able to listen to whatever you want, whenever and wherever you want. Why manage playlists when the hard drive can carry most everything? It's not a need to carry everything with me, but a desire to be able to listen to any music that strikes me, at any time.
So an iPod classic is ideal for you.
I used to have an iPod photo 60GB that held my whole collection, but I sold it last week and will use the iPod touch as my main iPod. I have no issue not having all the music in my library with me. Some of it I will never have played anyway, or at the most once. When I studied my music habits I stick to a limited amount of music at any one time. In fact the music I play most is in a special playlist I made that does the following.
I went through my entire music collection (all 14400 legal tracks) and marked all my favourites with a rating of 4 stars or more (that is 2451 tracks). I then set up a playlist that plays tracks that are rated 4 stars or above, that have not been played in the last 3 months, selected by those with the lowest playcount. I exclude Books and Spoken, Holiday and Christmas Genres. I also make sure it selects tracks with a time of less than 7 minutes to exclude some of the longer classical pieces. What I end up with is a great playlist that is like having my own radio station, playing favourite tracks I have not heard for a while. I limit the size to 1GB so that I can have other smart playlists that do similar to the above, or just leave space for some manual selections in a playlist. I also make sure I have a playlist that contains 1GB of all the latest additions to my iTunes library, after all these are usually 'hot' favourites or being discovered.
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week. If I have my entire collection with me, then I can decide what music to listen to at the time I actually want to listen to music. What a concept!
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I'm not sure the iPod touch is an ideal product for use in the car, it needs to much visual attention to use while driving. In fact doing so in the UK would be a criminal offence.
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week.
I really don't think you understand what I mean. One doesn't have to manually decide anything. You don't have to manually manage the music. That's not how I do it. Manual playlists are usually a waste of time anyway, make a smart playlist, set the parameters and it barely has to be touched again. I don't decide exactly what to listen to on any given morning before I go. If you're driving, you shouldn't be fussing with the device at all while driving anyway.
Quote:
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I don't really see the problem, it's not a label. It's a difference in psychology, that's all I see to it. None of us really need any of these players at all, it's about what we want. I'm not saying you are bad or defficient, it's just different.
I don't think that's necessarily true, I have at least twice that, but I'm more than happy with a 4GB first gen nano, and my 1GB nano has proven to be quite serviceable too. I use smart playlists to make iTunes put in new songs to replace the ones that were played.
The need to carry ones entire collection around is kind of a psychological one. In terms of music, 16GB is maybe 20x more music than one can listen to on a charge, and the excess gives you plenty to skip and plenty of room for videos too. iTunes can easily change out that much data while charging too.
I think the Porsche analogy is that demanding 80GB capacity would be equivalent to demanding a large enough gas tank to do a US coast-to-coast road trip on one fill-up.
OR, like complaining that a Porsche has a small trunk. The Touch is made to be slim, fast and have decent battery life. Those would be impossible with a harddrive. Even if you didn't mind it being thick, I think battery life would be unmarketable with HDD+Big Display+WiFi+MultiTouch+Sensors(Accelerometer, Light)!
Anyone have a clue yet about battery life using WiFi?
Comparing it to the iPhone's audio and video playback times (24 hrs, 7 hrs) the Touch has a bit less capacity (22 hrs, 5 hrs). The iPhone's internet use is rated at 6 hours, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the Touch gets a little less than this.
Lots of "real" websites use Flash brilliantly as a means to display complex, animated technical information. Just because the sites you choose to visit only use it for pop-ups and fluff ads doesn't make it a evil tool used only by "whores." Perhaps you need to broaden your internet experience a bit.
Agreed that the vitriol is a bit over the top, but the problem is not creative use of animation as much as it it the issue of 'standards-based' vs 'proprietary' (i.e. H.264 vs Flash)
For a more thoughtful discussion of the issue, see...
I read that many headsets (notably the Shure's) didn't fit into the recessed jack on the iPhone. Since the jack is in a different place on this device, does anyone know if it has the same issues as the iPhone?
I personally have 150+ GB of mp3s on my PC. Most of them are ripped @ 192 kbps, but there a few here and there that are 128 and some that are 320.
I have never even considered trying to have it all on a portable device.
I guess I could get a reallllly loooong extension cord and take my PC everywhere I go. Now, if I could just figure out how to not run over the extension cord and yank my PC out through the windshield of my car.
By the way, is it just the Apple stores that have these now, or do places like Best Buy have them hidden under a counter somewhere also?
I used to have an iPod photo 60GB that held my whole collection, but I sold it last week and will use the iPod touch as my main iPod. I have no issue not having all the music in my library with me. Some of it I will never have played anyway, or at the most once. When I studied my music habits I stick to a limited amount of music at any one time. In fact the music I play most is in a special playlist I made that does the following.
I went through my entire music collection (all 14400 legal tracks) and marked all my favourites with a rating of 4 stars or more (that is 2451 tracks). I then set up a playlist that plays tracks that are rated 4 stars or above, that have not been played in the last 3 months, selected by those with the lowest playcount. I exclude Books and Spoken, Holiday and Christmas Genres. I also make sure it selects tracks with a time of less than 7 minutes to exclude some of the longer classical pieces. What I end up with is a great playlist that is like having my own radio station, playing favourite tracks I have not heard for a while. I limit the size to 1GB so that I can have other smart playlists that do similar to the above, or just leave space for some manual selections in a playlist. I also make sure I have a playlist that contains 1GB of all the latest additions to my iTunes library, after all these are usually 'hot' favourites or being discovered.
Ian
My main point was that there ARE people who want more than 10 GB of space, as the OP said he knows of no one who does. I do use a smart playlist almost identical (rating and hasn't been played recently) to yours (especially nice with the nano), but I don't want to be tied to just that. I appreciate your viewpoint, and think that's the best part of the current iPod lineup--something for everyone.
While I probably use the iPod Classic (actually 80GB 5.5G) most, I wouldn't call it my ideal iPod. My ideal iPod would have WAY more capacity than the current Classic (enabling me to listen to everything in ALAC), the small size of the nano, the WiFi and nice screen of the Touch, with additional features such as bluetooth, usb/firewire ports and OS X open to developers. Obviously impossible with current technology, but how much of this could be done now (excluding nano sizing) to make it the Mac Ultraportable some of us have been really waiting for?
So the Wifi with the touch cannot play any flash based content? So no internet games on addictinggames.com or shockwave.com? What about sites, burton.com wont work? Apple says its not watered down version of the internet....if those sites don't work that most definitely seems false.
What about email? Can I not check my yahoo mail or gmail on its wifi?
Also, anyone have a guess on when these will ship from apple? I don't feel like driving 2 hours to an apple store.
Thanks in advane
P.S. you guys need to stop arguing about the storage. Some people need more storage, some don't. Leave it at that?
So the Wifi with the touch cannot play any flash based content? So no internet games on addictinggames.com or shockwave.com? What about sites, burton.com wont work? Apple says its not watered down version of the internet....if those sites don't work that most definitely seems false.
What about email? Can I not check my yahoo mail or gmail on its wifi?
Also, anyone have a guess on when these will ship from apple? I don't feel like driving 2 hours to an apple store.
Thanks in advane
P.S. you guys need to stop arguing about the storage. Some people need more storage, some don't. Leave it at that?
Flash is a de-facto part of the web experience, whether or not it's always used towards good ends.
I do see your point. But in general surfing around on the internet with the iPhone for the most part you don't notice much lost functionality without flash. Mostly you see empty panels that are flash video and ads. I've been to a couple of websites that are rendered completely useless without flash support but not very many.
On the other hand. I've seen many developers complain that flash for OS X is horrible. Which makes it possible that using flash currently on the iPhone would be a bad experience, hence Apple left it off. Apple may be using this slight as a way to push Adobe to do something about the situation. Hopefully they will work something out in the near future.
I'd really like one but until they put mail, maps, stocks, weather and maybe even real iChat on it then Apple can't have my money. These are not phone applications, they're web applications. Do Macbooks have mail, stocks, weather, maps and iChat? Yes they do. Are they phones? No, so I should not have to buy a freeking iPhone to use those applications but not on a iPod Touch?
Comments
MacWorld did a video first look and one interesting thing they pointed out is that you can't add events to the Touch calendar as you can in the iPhone. Weird.
No notes, no calendar, no e-mail. No SDK for 3rd party apps. No useful VPN support.
To steal from another poster ...
It's like a Porsche with a 1 gallon fuel tank
That about sums it up. I really hope Apple takes addressing these issues seriously. The iPod touch sounded tempting when announced, but in its current state, it's pretty easy to pass.
BTW, the article seems to make a big deal out of the display stand ... for watching video oriented horizontally, it makes perfect sense, and you don't want it to be huge for travel. One could certainly argue for Bluetooth, a mic (or mic port), or speakers, but the failing in the iPod touch really isn't the hardware or OS ... it's the weak selection of end user apps (especially when you know the others exist) and the lack of support for 3rd party ones.
That piece of plastic looks like it's there to help bind the USB cable.
It's a stand!
No notes, no calendar, no e-mail. No SDK for 3rd party apps. No useful VPN support.
To steal from another poster ...
That about sums it up. I really hope Apple takes addressing these issues seriously. The iPod touch sounded tempting when announced, but in its current state, it's pretty easy to pass.
BTW, the article seems to make a big deal out of the display stand ... for watching video oriented horizontally, it makes perfect sense, and you don't want it to be huge for travel. One could certainly argue for Bluetooth, a mic (or mic port), or speakers, but the failing in the iPod touch really isn't the hardware or OS ... it's the weak selection of end user apps (especially when you know the others exist) and the lack of support for 3rd party ones.
The thing is I want my iPod touch to be just that - an iPod, I don't wan't it to be laden with loads of PDA functions - that's my requirement. For me it is not easy to pass, as I suspect it will not be for many others who just want an iPod.
I personally think you're very much in the minority, but even with that much (btw what % of that is video), why the need to have every bit with you at all times, or the aversion to simply be able to manage it through playlists and simple syncs. Of the 50+ iPod owners I know, not one (even audiophiles and DJ's) have over 10GB of music or spoken word.
I use an 80GB 5.5G, currently with 16,422 songs (NOT my entire music collection, but a majority); a 60GB 4G modded (iMod, Redwine Audio) that I use with Apple Lossless (holding about 2,200 songs), and a nano 4GB 1G primarily used with Nike+ system. I have three friends at work, in an office of about 50, using 80GB iPods, and one buying the 160GB. We're all music fans with very little, if any, video. We're also all in our mid to upper 40s, so we've been buying music for a long time.
To me, the most important thing about the iPod is to be able to listen to whatever you want, whenever and wherever you want. Why manage playlists when the hard drive can carry most everything? It's not a need to carry everything with me, but a desire to be able to listen to any music that strikes me, at any time.
The need to carry ones entire collection around is kind of a psychological one. In terms of music, 16GB is maybe 20x more music than one can listen to on a charge, and the excess gives you plenty to skip and plenty of room for videos too. iTunes can easily change out that much data while charging too.
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week. If I have my entire collection with me, then I can decide what music to listen to at the time I actually want to listen to music. What a concept!
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I use an 80GB 5.5G, currently with 16,422 songs (NOT my entire music collection, but a majority); a 60GB 4G modded (iMod, Redwine Audio) that I use with Apple Lossless (holding about 2,200 songs), and a nano 4GB 1G primarily used with Nike+ system. I have three friends at work, in an office of about 50, using 80GB iPods, and one buying the 160GB. We're all music fans with very little, if any, video. We're also all in our mid to upper 40s, so we've been buying music for a long time.
To me, the most important thing about the iPod is to be able to listen to whatever you want, whenever and wherever you want. Why manage playlists when the hard drive can carry most everything? It's not a need to carry everything with me, but a desire to be able to listen to any music that strikes me, at any time.
So an iPod classic is ideal for you.
I used to have an iPod photo 60GB that held my whole collection, but I sold it last week and will use the iPod touch as my main iPod. I have no issue not having all the music in my library with me. Some of it I will never have played anyway, or at the most once. When I studied my music habits I stick to a limited amount of music at any one time. In fact the music I play most is in a special playlist I made that does the following.
I went through my entire music collection (all 14400 legal tracks) and marked all my favourites with a rating of 4 stars or more (that is 2451 tracks). I then set up a playlist that plays tracks that are rated 4 stars or above, that have not been played in the last 3 months, selected by those with the lowest playcount. I exclude Books and Spoken, Holiday and Christmas Genres. I also make sure it selects tracks with a time of less than 7 minutes to exclude some of the longer classical pieces. What I end up with is a great playlist that is like having my own radio station, playing favourite tracks I have not heard for a while. I limit the size to 1GB so that I can have other smart playlists that do similar to the above, or just leave space for some manual selections in a playlist. I also make sure I have a playlist that contains 1GB of all the latest additions to my iTunes library, after all these are usually 'hot' favourites or being discovered.
Ian
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week. If I have my entire collection with me, then I can decide what music to listen to at the time I actually want to listen to music. What a concept!
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I'm not sure the iPod touch is an ideal product for use in the car, it needs to much visual attention to use while driving. In fact doing so in the UK would be a criminal offence.
Your rationale assumes that people only charge their iPods in one location. I want to charge mine in my car. I certainly can't swap out my playlists in my car.
Also, I don't want to have to decide what music I want to listen to every morning before I leave the house, or even once per week.
I really don't think you understand what I mean. One doesn't have to manually decide anything. You don't have to manually manage the music. That's not how I do it. Manual playlists are usually a waste of time anyway, make a smart playlist, set the parameters and it barely has to be touched again. I don't decide exactly what to listen to on any given morning before I go. If you're driving, you shouldn't be fussing with the device at all while driving anyway.
Labelling other people's needs as purely "psychological" does not make sense. You could apply that logic to politics, religion, or anything else. That doesn't mean people should think and act like you do.
I don't really see the problem, it's not a label. It's a difference in psychology, that's all I see to it. None of us really need any of these players at all, it's about what we want. I'm not saying you are bad or defficient, it's just different.
I don't think that's necessarily true, I have at least twice that, but I'm more than happy with a 4GB first gen nano, and my 1GB nano has proven to be quite serviceable too. I use smart playlists to make iTunes put in new songs to replace the ones that were played.
The need to carry ones entire collection around is kind of a psychological one. In terms of music, 16GB is maybe 20x more music than one can listen to on a charge, and the excess gives you plenty to skip and plenty of room for videos too. iTunes can easily change out that much data while charging too.
I think the Porsche analogy is that demanding 80GB capacity would be equivalent to demanding a large enough gas tank to do a US coast-to-coast road trip on one fill-up.
OR, like complaining that a Porsche has a small trunk. The Touch is made to be slim, fast and have decent battery life. Those would be impossible with a harddrive. Even if you didn't mind it being thick, I think battery life would be unmarketable with HDD+Big Display+WiFi+MultiTouch+Sensors(Accelerometer, Light)!
Anyone have a clue yet about battery life using WiFi?
Comparing it to the iPhone's audio and video playback times (24 hrs, 7 hrs) the Touch has a bit less capacity (22 hrs, 5 hrs). The iPhone's internet use is rated at 6 hours, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the Touch gets a little less than this.
Lots of "real" websites use Flash brilliantly as a means to display complex, animated technical information. Just because the sites you choose to visit only use it for pop-ups and fluff ads doesn't make it a evil tool used only by "whores." Perhaps you need to broaden your internet experience a bit.
Agreed that the vitriol is a bit over the top, but the problem is not creative use of animation as much as it it the issue of 'standards-based' vs 'proprietary' (i.e. H.264 vs Flash)
For a more thoughtful discussion of the issue, see...
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...BBA7C7A85.html
Thanks
Colin
I have never even considered trying to have it all on a portable device.
I guess I could get a reallllly loooong extension cord and take my PC everywhere I go. Now, if I could just figure out how to not run over the extension cord and yank my PC out through the windshield of my car.
By the way, is it just the Apple stores that have these now, or do places like Best Buy have them hidden under a counter somewhere also?
So an iPod classic is ideal for you.
I used to have an iPod photo 60GB that held my whole collection, but I sold it last week and will use the iPod touch as my main iPod. I have no issue not having all the music in my library with me. Some of it I will never have played anyway, or at the most once. When I studied my music habits I stick to a limited amount of music at any one time. In fact the music I play most is in a special playlist I made that does the following.
I went through my entire music collection (all 14400 legal tracks) and marked all my favourites with a rating of 4 stars or more (that is 2451 tracks). I then set up a playlist that plays tracks that are rated 4 stars or above, that have not been played in the last 3 months, selected by those with the lowest playcount. I exclude Books and Spoken, Holiday and Christmas Genres. I also make sure it selects tracks with a time of less than 7 minutes to exclude some of the longer classical pieces. What I end up with is a great playlist that is like having my own radio station, playing favourite tracks I have not heard for a while. I limit the size to 1GB so that I can have other smart playlists that do similar to the above, or just leave space for some manual selections in a playlist. I also make sure I have a playlist that contains 1GB of all the latest additions to my iTunes library, after all these are usually 'hot' favourites or being discovered.
Ian
My main point was that there ARE people who want more than 10 GB of space, as the OP said he knows of no one who does. I do use a smart playlist almost identical (rating and hasn't been played recently) to yours (especially nice with the nano), but I don't want to be tied to just that. I appreciate your viewpoint, and think that's the best part of the current iPod lineup--something for everyone.
While I probably use the iPod Classic (actually 80GB 5.5G) most, I wouldn't call it my ideal iPod. My ideal iPod would have WAY more capacity than the current Classic (enabling me to listen to everything in ALAC), the small size of the nano, the WiFi and nice screen of the Touch, with additional features such as bluetooth, usb/firewire ports and OS X open to developers. Obviously impossible with current technology, but how much of this could be done now (excluding nano sizing) to make it the Mac Ultraportable some of us have been really waiting for?
What about email? Can I not check my yahoo mail or gmail on its wifi?
Also, anyone have a guess on when these will ship from apple? I don't feel like driving 2 hours to an apple store.
Thanks in advane
P.S. you guys need to stop arguing about the storage. Some people need more storage, some don't. Leave it at that?
So the Wifi with the touch cannot play any flash based content? So no internet games on addictinggames.com or shockwave.com? What about sites, burton.com wont work? Apple says its not watered down version of the internet....if those sites don't work that most definitely seems false.
What about email? Can I not check my yahoo mail or gmail on its wifi?
Also, anyone have a guess on when these will ship from apple? I don't feel like driving 2 hours to an apple store.
Thanks in advane
P.S. you guys need to stop arguing about the storage. Some people need more storage, some don't. Leave it at that?
28th of september.
Flash is a de-facto part of the web experience, whether or not it's always used towards good ends.
I do see your point. But in general surfing around on the internet with the iPhone for the most part you don't notice much lost functionality without flash. Mostly you see empty panels that are flash video and ads. I've been to a couple of websites that are rendered completely useless without flash support but not very many.
On the other hand. I've seen many developers complain that flash for OS X is horrible. Which makes it possible that using flash currently on the iPhone would be a bad experience, hence Apple left it off. Apple may be using this slight as a way to push Adobe to do something about the situation. Hopefully they will work something out in the near future.
What about email? Can I not check my yahoo mail or gmail on its wifi?
Yes you can check your web based mail.
I love Apple but sometimes they drive me NUTS