have been trying frantically to diagnose the problem on my new 24" 2.8. glad to know it's a real issue with others as well. apple needs to get this resolved immediately.
a related question: is it my imagination, or is apple QC slipping?
I would have to say that I have had this exact problem on my last two laptops - a PowerbookG4 15" hi-res (last PB), and a new MBP Santa Rosa 17" (with nVidia).
The machine freezes while doing a Command-Tab to switch between applications. The cursor moves in response to the mouse, but nothing else. The power button/closing lid can sleep the machine and also wake it. But the only solution is a hard reboot. The console logs show no apparent or obvious problem!
It is not frequent - perhaps every month (its happened just once on the MBP).
Happens for me too on new 2.0 ghz iMac. WoW will freeze on occasion, but music keep s playing and mouse cursor still moves, but still have to do a reset nontheless. Turning down the shader effects seems to have solved that issue. Visual glitches and artifacts still persist in predictable places, so it tells me this is definitely a driver/hardware problem with the ATI chip. Playing games in XP via bootcamp gives similar problems, regardless if the computer is cold or has been runing for a while. Also, finder and the dock rising from the bottom edge of screen will freeze upon first startup (less often but it happens).
edit: I'm running smsFanControl so most heat issues should be mitigated while in OS X.
My 2.8 Extreme 24" iMac with 4gb and 1TB has frozen many times, usually while I'm working on something important! My next step is to try a format and reinstall but, eugh, I just got it set up right and moved 500gb of files. Putting it off until the weekend and hoping for a better fix. Glad to see it finally making news though. Each time I've called apple care they claim to know nothing about it...
a related question: is it my imagination, or is apple QC slipping?
I think it is.
My Macbook Pro had the battery just stop working (on a business trip), my daughter's macbook has been in the shop 3 times in 9 months (bad HD, bad charger and bad keyboard), her iphone has been changed 3 times (4 iphones in 3 months!)... and one of my iphone rebate certificates didn't work at checkout buying our new imac (had it restored, but wanted to use it for that purchase... oh well, Leopard, here I come!).
The good thing is, Apple has fixed everything ASAP and free of charge. A+ service, but you need to use it more often.
Apple has been flaking out in the video driver department. Big time. There are problems especially with the latest Macbook Pros (Nvidia 8600) and iMacs (Radeon HD). I think the worst thing about this is they REFUSE to admit there's a problem. They refuse to say "we're working on it". They just let people crash and freeze and wonder what's goign on.
Come on, Apple. You can do better. Fess up to your mistakes. Tell us they'll be fixed in 10.4.11. I understand that we are not perfect and we do make mistakes. Sometimes new systems have issues. But sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la" while we wonder what's going on is not the way to treat your customers.
Telling us there is indeed a problem, and that it's being worked on, is the right thing to do. Unfortunately Apple would rather alienate their user base than fess up to the issues. Customers are frustrated when there's a problem, but the frustration can be eased when the manufacturer admits they know about it and are working to fix it. Not knowing if your problem is being fixed is ten times as frustrating.
Sigh.
My feelings exactly, they really need to get work done on their drivers - not just in terms of stability but performance too. I hope that Leopard brings better drivers with its debugging tools.
I think Apple's quality control is seriously slipping. I won't go into the many issues that I have had with my MBP17" (as well as problems that a colleague of mine has has with is 17" as well), and a couple of iPods.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
The same thing's plagued my PM G5 2.3 (ATI 9600) for about 2 months. The system becomes unresponsive after 24-48hrs. My damn mirror raids are being rebuilt 3-5 times a week. Needless to say something OS X wise has upset ATI (if that's really the cause). Major friggin headache.
I'm just praying Leopard fixes all this nonsense...
I see the same thing on a 2.2GHZ MBP (NVidia), and I have found a "sort of works" solution.
In general, it seems to be the loginwindow process (this is from memory, it might also be the WindowServer process...). If you have another computer available, and SSH running on the affected Mac, you can ssh in, kill loginwindow (or WindowServer...), and you'll be thrown back to a login screen. If you have fast user switching on, the other user should remain logged in (again, this is from memory, and doesn't happen consistently enough for me to remember exactly). When loginwindow is killed, you'll get back to the normal login screen.
That being said, there may be a more elegant solution. Perhaps sending a signal other then TERM (such as HUP, USR1, USR2, ARLM, INT) would wake WindowServer back up instead of stopping the process.
Killing loginwindow has the side affect of killing any of its children, which are any of the graphical applications you had running. So this doesn't save your work, but it does save any other user logged into the system (and your uptime )
I purchased a 2.8 new iMac the day they were released and have installed all the updates. I have not had any experience of lock ups or freezes but this is troubling to say the least. One would expect that when you pay $2800+ for a new iMac there would be NO issues and Apple should be reading the video card people the riot act. This is not good for a brand like Apple
I've been saying this for the past two years, and it looks like the mainstream blogosphere is finally catching on:
Apple's manufacturing and software quality is fck'ng terrible.
We tend to look at these things as one-off events. (Remember the MacBook heat issue, or the iPod touch screens or Safari for Windows crashing non-English versions etc., etc., etc.,)
But when you look at things as a trend, Apple has some very serious quality issues.
It is only a matter of time before the main stream media jumps all over this.
I bought the top of the line iMac fully loaded. For the first time as a long-time Apple customer, I didn't install a patch because it bricked my buddy's iMac.
Apple needs to get their act together. It would be an utter shame for this amazing turnaround which has been great for employees, shareholder, customers, and frankly the whole tech industry if Apple were to screw this all up now.
Apple has been flaking out in the video driver department. Big time. There are problems especially with the latest Macbook Pros (Nvidia 8600) and iMacs (Radeon HD). I think the worst thing about this is they REFUSE to admit there's a problem. They refuse to say "we're working on it". They just let people crash and freeze and wonder what's goign on.
It's about time Apple started to take 3d alot more seriously. This just seems to be part of a much broader issue at Apple.
They don't take gaming seriously, seem laid back about the 3d market (despite being a 'workstation' vendor...) and the drivers seem to constantly underperform their windows counter parts.
And the Ati iMac part? Look at the barefeats.com benches and it's the driver, the card or even both. A real side/backwards step in performance.
Disappointing. Especially when you look at all the hard work they're doing with the rest of the OS.
"Your toaster doesn’t crash. Your kitchen sink doesn’t crash. Why should your computer? Think of the countless hours you would save if your PC worked on your time — not the other way around. Then think about a Mac."
Quote:
"The real secret behind the Mac’s crash-resistant performance lies deep within the operating system itself. Beneath the surface of Mac OS X lies an industrial-strength UNIX foundation hard at work to ensure that your computing experience remains free of system crashes and compromised performance."
What a shame they're having (and denying) these problems with their new aluminum iMacs. With the latest price drop on the 24-inch model, I was really wanting one of these things. Come on Apple! Don't drop your quality just because you're getting so popular!!
Comments
Is this one of the new crop released in June, or a previous model?
It's the previous one, the october 2006 series (bought it in december 2006), so it must be that one
All,
This looks like an ATI issue rather than an Apple/OS X issue.
I have the same chipset/card in my PC, and I am having
a very, very similar issue in Linux.
I'm running the 64-bit version of Ubuntu and it will lock up
every now and then. I've also had this happen in XP, but
only once or twice. It has happend quite often in Ubuntu.
It has only happened in XP when a game was involved. I
don't play any games in Linux.
I'd like to know if any folks that dual boot their iMacs are
having this issue in XP or Vista. That would be interesting!!
Regards,
Ocriss
It should be ATI issue. I'm running XP in new iMac. In XP, the screen is first freeze and then turn dark completely!
Regards
Terence
It's the previous one, the october 2006 series (bought it in december 2006), so it must be that one
a related question: is it my imagination, or is apple QC slipping?
Are you sure this happen to Nvidia as well?
I would have to say that I have had this exact problem on my last two laptops - a PowerbookG4 15" hi-res (last PB), and a new MBP Santa Rosa 17" (with nVidia).
The machine freezes while doing a Command-Tab to switch between applications. The cursor moves in response to the mouse, but nothing else. The power button/closing lid can sleep the machine and also wake it. But the only solution is a hard reboot. The console logs show no apparent or obvious problem!
It is not frequent - perhaps every month (its happened just once on the MBP).
edit: I'm running smsFanControl so most heat issues should be mitigated while in OS X.
a related question: is it my imagination, or is apple QC slipping?
I think it is.
My Macbook Pro had the battery just stop working (on a business trip), my daughter's macbook has been in the shop 3 times in 9 months (bad HD, bad charger and bad keyboard), her iphone has been changed 3 times (4 iphones in 3 months!)... and one of my iphone rebate certificates didn't work at checkout buying our new imac (had it restored, but wanted to use it for that purchase... oh well, Leopard, here I come!).
The good thing is, Apple has fixed everything ASAP and free of charge. A+ service, but you need to use it more often.
Apple has been flaking out in the video driver department. Big time. There are problems especially with the latest Macbook Pros (Nvidia 8600) and iMacs (Radeon HD). I think the worst thing about this is they REFUSE to admit there's a problem. They refuse to say "we're working on it". They just let people crash and freeze and wonder what's goign on.
Come on, Apple. You can do better. Fess up to your mistakes. Tell us they'll be fixed in 10.4.11. I understand that we are not perfect and we do make mistakes. Sometimes new systems have issues. But sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la" while we wonder what's going on is not the way to treat your customers.
Telling us there is indeed a problem, and that it's being worked on, is the right thing to do. Unfortunately Apple would rather alienate their user base than fess up to the issues. Customers are frustrated when there's a problem, but the frustration can be eased when the manufacturer admits they know about it and are working to fix it. Not knowing if your problem is being fixed is ten times as frustrating.
Sigh.
My feelings exactly, they really need to get work done on their drivers - not just in terms of stability but performance too. I hope that Leopard brings better drivers with its debugging tools.
I think it has got to a stage where Apple seems to be rushing half-baked (relative to the past) hardware and software out the door. Part of the QC problems no doubt stem from the ubiquitous, relentless outsourcing to lower- and lower-cost manufacturers in countries further and further away (all electronics being guilty of that).
But I sometimes feel that it may have something to do with Apple trying to do too many things, too soon.
I wish they would slow down or pause a bit, catch their breath, and work on eliminating the quality and service issues in their current product offerings, before putting anything else new and significant out there.
I'm just praying Leopard fixes all this nonsense...
i doubt that this is a wide spread issue. havent seen that many posts and users complaining...
You forgot to add the <sarcasm> tags on your post. That or you haven't been on Apple Discussions since August.
In general, it seems to be the loginwindow process (this is from memory, it might also be the WindowServer process...). If you have another computer available, and SSH running on the affected Mac, you can ssh in, kill loginwindow (or WindowServer...), and you'll be thrown back to a login screen. If you have fast user switching on, the other user should remain logged in (again, this is from memory, and doesn't happen consistently enough for me to remember exactly). When loginwindow is killed, you'll get back to the normal login screen.
That being said, there may be a more elegant solution. Perhaps sending a signal other then TERM (such as HUP, USR1, USR2, ARLM, INT) would wake WindowServer back up instead of stopping the process.
Killing loginwindow has the side affect of killing any of its children, which are any of the graphical applications you had running. So this doesn't save your work, but it does save any other user logged into the system (and your uptime
Apple's manufacturing and software quality is fck'ng terrible.
We tend to look at these things as one-off events. (Remember the MacBook heat issue, or the iPod touch screens or Safari for Windows crashing non-English versions etc., etc., etc.,)
But when you look at things as a trend, Apple has some very serious quality issues.
It is only a matter of time before the main stream media jumps all over this.
I bought the top of the line iMac fully loaded. For the first time as a long-time Apple customer, I didn't install a patch because it bricked my buddy's iMac.
Apple needs to get their act together. It would be an utter shame for this amazing turnaround which has been great for employees, shareholder, customers, and frankly the whole tech industry if Apple were to screw this all up now.
Apple has been flaking out in the video driver department. Big time. There are problems especially with the latest Macbook Pros (Nvidia 8600) and iMacs (Radeon HD). I think the worst thing about this is they REFUSE to admit there's a problem. They refuse to say "we're working on it". They just let people crash and freeze and wonder what's goign on.
It's about time Apple started to take 3d alot more seriously. This just seems to be part of a much broader issue at Apple.
They don't take gaming seriously, seem laid back about the 3d market (despite being a 'workstation' vendor...) and the drivers seem to constantly underperform their windows counter parts.
And the Ati iMac part? Look at the barefeats.com benches and it's the driver, the card or even both. A real side/backwards step in performance.
Disappointing. Especially when you look at all the hard work they're doing with the rest of the OS.
Lemon Bon Bon.
and Apple should be reading the video card people the riot act. This is not good for a brand like Apple
I'd say. I hope Leopard sorts this out and quick.
Lemon Bon Bon.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/works.html
"Your toaster doesn’t crash. Your kitchen sink doesn’t crash. Why should your computer? Think of the countless hours you would save if your PC worked on your time — not the other way around. Then think about a Mac."
"The real secret behind the Mac’s crash-resistant performance lies deep within the operating system itself. Beneath the surface of Mac OS X lies an industrial-strength UNIX foundation hard at work to ensure that your computing experience remains free of system crashes and compromised performance."
What a shame they're having (and denying) these problems with their new aluminum iMacs. With the latest price drop on the 24-inch model, I was really wanting one of these things. Come on Apple! Don't drop your quality just because you're getting so popular!!