We just purchased two new iMacs for our office, a regular 24in. and an extreme. We've had them both for a week with no freezes and no other problems. We are very happy with their performance so far.
My computer was fine untill I downloaded the first software update, it pretty much freezes everyday. The IMAC was my first MAC and I want so much to believe in their reliability but right now I'm not seeing it. My 5 year old windows XP computer wasn't perfect but I was always able to fix it and it was a frankenstein creation (home built) .
My computer was fine untill I downloaded the first software update, it pretty much freezes everyday. The IMAC was my first MAC and I want so much to believe in their reliability but right now I'm not seeing it. My 5 year old windows XP computer wasn't perfect but I was always able to fix it and it was a frankenstein creation (home built) .
I've installed all current updates on these new iMacs so they are "up-to-date"; nothing showing up in Software Update that is.
From what I've read in other forums, aside from the graphics card, some people experiencing the freezes had used migration assistant to transfer settings to their new iMac and doing a "clean" install of OS X solve the problem for some. Since this is your first Mac, you wouldn't fall in this catergory. Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
I've installed all current updates on these new iMacs so they are "up-to-date"; nothing showing up in Software Update that is.
From what I've read in other forums, aside from the graphics card, some people experiencing the freezes had used migration assistant to transfer settings to their new iMac and doing a "clean" install of OS X solve the problem for some. Since this is your first Mac, you wouldn't fall in this catergory. Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
If it were to solve the problem I suppose so its just a big hassle especially since this i actually the second IMAC of this current line that I owned (I bought the first the very day they came out and when I was installing bootcamp and XP the computer got screwed up and wouldn't go any where after the power on chime, so I took it to an apple store and had it replaced!)
... but it's hard to tell for sure. I was (stupidly) running P'shop CS3, iTunes, InDesign CS3, maybe Preview, too, and MS Remote Desktop Connection (beta) to my PC laptop. Pretty freakin' dumb with only 2gb RAM.
How much stuff you are running has nothing to do with OS stability.
The OS is either good or not.
If your Apple crashed, either the OS or the hardware has a problem.
The idea that "certain apps" cause crashes is complete mythology.
A properly written OS on good hardware should work regardless of what an application does. That's its job.
Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
I have clean installed my iMac repeatedly and had no effect on the problem whatsoever. Indeed, this was a pre-requisite for replacement of the unit under AppleCare. They did replace my iMac once I had proven that it hung even when running a fresh installation of the OS and no 3rd party software or hardware.
I literally bought a MacBook so that I could still work while the iMac was running for a couple weeks with none of my own data or apps or peripherals!
Guess what? The iMac kept crashing ... and the new MacBook did too! Exactly the same problem on both machines, for the last five months.
This issue is certainly not limited to the new iMac, my MacBook Pro 17" Core 2 Duo is having the same symptoms.
For what it's worth, my new macbook pro 15" 2.2 Duo hasn't crashed once since I got it a month ago. According to the Software update, I am up to date except for the Webobjects 5.3.3 and Battery Update 1.3 -- which require restarting, and I don't want to restart at the moment.
I'm a potential switcher, waiting (like many i suspect) for Leopard to ship with the new iMacs.
I've used Dell Inspirons in the past, some with ATI cards installed and in those cases there's always been problems.
Why has Apple gone for this substandard manufacturer when there's better and stronger NVidia cards out there? I'd be happy to pay another ?50 or so for a better card.
Let's hope Leopard fixes this otherwise suddenly Apple's lost its edge.
Exact same problems on my new aluminum iMac 20" (2.4 GHz) with the same video card (ATI Radeon HD 2600). Occasionally it will freeze up like this, with the mouse still moving but nothing else will work, and eventually it all goes south and I have to restart manually. Typically this happens when the computer has been on for a while and I'm doing something that involves graphical effects, like Dashboard or iMovie.
I get the "ASIC Hang Log" every time it freezes. I've accumulated about a dozen of those now; I save them every time.
I've followed this issue closely, and at least on the aluminum iMacs, it appears to be the same thing. There is a definite issue revolving around the ATI cards or drivers that is currently producing the same issues for a lot of people. It's not always consistent or reproducible, but it's there. There's no way this is all a huge coincidence.
When is Apple going to admit this problem? I'm sick of AppleCare insisting they've never heard of it before. The retail stores are not much better, just running tests that have nothing to do with this issue, and giving people replacement iMacs with the same issue.
Since my last post, my iMac has crashed about a dozen times always when I've been using Aperture while it was doing some background task and I was in iTunes or doing email or looking at Safari.... I would be interested in logging these crashes too but am unfamiliar with how to do it. I looked at the Terminal Activity monitor but don't see a log. How do you do it?
I, too, am sick of Apple Care. I've spent too much money on this computer for it to not run properly. Besides, I have other things to do other than restart my machine every 30 minutes...
My new alu 24" iMac has the same issues. Lots of random freezes. Update v1.1 installed or not doesn't make a difference. And I can see lots of those "ASIC" messages in system.log was well
How much stuff you are running has nothing to do with OS stability.
The OS is either good or not.
If your Apple crashed, either the OS or the hardware has a problem.
The idea that "certain apps" cause crashes is complete mythology.
A properly written OS on good hardware should work regardless of what an application does. That's its job.
I did admin work in the 80's for a cluster of Sun systems. The programmers were being sent to a local university in waves, taking advanced classes in process communications. Every so often, all my systems would just start crashing and I tracked it down to the classwork - if I remember correctly, when they tried to use a socket they hadn't initialized. While the fix was to modify the OS, the fact of the matter was that the OS ran well written programs just fine.
Last month I bought a Logictech VX Nano for my MBP, then downloaded and installed their drivers. Crashes, freezes, etc. Removed it and haven't had a problem since.
Certain apps cause crashes, especially when the app is a hardware driver. There isn't an OS in the world that can prevent all the crappy apps from causing problems. Your "properly written OS" doesn't exist.
My computer was fine untill I downloaded the first software update, it pretty much freezes everyday. The IMAC was my first MAC and I want so much to believe in their reliability but right now I'm not seeing it. My 5 year old windows XP computer wasn't perfect but I was always able to fix it and it was a frankenstein creation (home built) .
That's the advantage of building your own. I have done so for the past 20 years with great results. All except my Macs, of course. Perhaps if Apple decided to release a Mac in kit form? Just kidding. But is it as farfetched as it sounds? Closest to the concept is the Mac Pro where you can you can switch/change/troubleshoot most everything on your own. I'd like a simpler MacPro.
I also migrated from my old G4 1.25 GHz 20" iMac to a new 24" 2.8 GHz iMac using the migration assistant (by the way, this is my 2nd 24" 2.8 GHz. The first had some bad pixels out of the box). Using the migration assistant was my first mistake by the sounds of it. Thereafter I had problems with the dialogue boxes of all the System Preferences. I would click an option and then, the box was dead. I could still use the mouse to quit Sys Prefs using the top menu and the rest of the system would remain unaffected. I also could not delete one of the users that was migrated - also annoying.
Just reinstalled the OS having not wasted too much time trying to fix stuff and it seems to be running ok again. Now back to migrating manually...
While I will admit to having the same annoying issue that is being discussed here, I can't claim to have near the frequency you seem to experience.
Yes, I have to agree it's graphics related. If I run a graphics app such as Photoshop CS3 (and Bridge CS3 in conjunction) and walk away for a length of time, usually until the display goes to sleep after 2 hours or if I've run a graphics app and then, hours later run a game such as World of Warcraft, then yes, somewhere along the line I get a freeze. However, more often than not I have no issues at all, my machine running reliably for at least a week without being shut down or rebooted after playing WoW and working with graphics (not concurrently) for extensive periods.
One possibility which I have not heard mentioned is thermal runaway. I monitor my machine and note that under normal circumstances my CPU runs at about 48˚C most of the time while my GPU runs near 60˚C, frequently as high as 65˚. I expect that being one of the 24" "Extreme" models might have some effect, the larger cooling slot helping to cool the components, but I also have the computer set up on a stand about 2 inches above what the base lifts it, allowing more airflow under it while the unit sits at least 8" away from any wall or obstacle. The only exception to this is an external hard drive purchased for my Mini which is now tied to the iMac instead and resting on the iMac's base.
More often than I can tell, I have run into issues with electronics getting too hot and failing, only to start operating correctly again once it cools down. The temperature differential in such circumstances can be as little as a 1˚ difference between operational and failure. The iMac, like most newer Macs are designed for the best possible airflow over the components, but anything blocking these ports or restricting airflow around the computer could have an effect.
Try moving the clutter away from your machine or try using some sort of air circulation around the computer to help cool it and see if that makes a difference. Maybe - just maybe - your lockups won't be as frequent.
I wanted to chime in here with my own experiences as well. The short version is that I purchased a 24 inch Aluminum iMac (2.4 Ghz) back in August just after they came out. Very quickly it became clear that it was very unstable, particularly when running video card intensive applications (the two biggies were Aperature and Skype video calls - these were both the kiss of death). The short story is that after many hours on the phone with Apple technical support, they agreed to replace my iMac with a new one (basically, they decided it was DOA even though it worked to a limited extent).
My new iMac is stuck with FedEx (being shipped directly from China) and I probably won't have it for at least a week since I'm in Europe now. Hopefully, things will be better with this one.
I would be very interested to hear remarks from those experiencing similar issues - I am "leonifan" on that thread (as I am here).
Since I sent the machine back for physical repair (graphics card), this issue has gone completely, in both OS X and XP.
I will not be entirely satisfied until I have been running the machine for several weeks (the original problem seemed to appear after time, and gradually worsened), but it seems that hardware is the definite cause in my case.
ATI seem to be the (manufacturing?) culprit here, it seems.
ATI seem to be the (manufacturing?) culprit here, it seems.
To all you "troubleshooters" who can't reason your way out of a wet paper bag, I will just keep repeating it: there are numerous reports of this problem on machines with nvidia cards.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
Stop saying it seems to be ATI!
Also, to everyone who has had their iMac for a week and it "seems fine," please be advised that the problem is intermittent for most people, with an interval of up to two weeks. Many times I have gone 7, 10, 12 days without a hang ... only two have three in a day.
Also, to everyone who is convinced that these hangs are associated with [insert application you happen to use a lot] ? yes, it's worth trying to pin down a correlation like that, but if you read all the threads out there about this, it gets obvious really quick that the hangs are not correlated with any particular application. I have been through many phases with this, when I was sure that "most" of the hangs were associated with a certain app, but after about fifty of these hangs occurring virtually no matter what I'm doing (or not doing) with the machine, I'm slowly getting the picture that there is no one application.
A story ...
Once, sometime in the summer, the hanging problem got so bad that I finally had reproduceability. Hangs accelerated rapidly over a couple of days, until I could literally make the machine hang, in exactly the same way as the random hangs, simply by launching Mail.app. Seriously. Launch Mail ... bork! Launch Mail ... bork!
I danced for joy. Reproduceability! Coolay, callay, etc. I trashed my Mail folder, started from scratch, and my hanging stopped. Wow. Cool. After months of hanging, I thought I finally had my culprit.
10 days passed.
It hung.
And the problem was back, regularly, from then on, no matter what I did to Mail.app.
So ... would everyone pretty puh-lease stop jumping to conclusions and starting applying a little logic! If there are numerous reports of nvidia machines hanging, it's not exclusively an ati problem. If there are reports of many different apps associated with the hangs, then it's not any particular app. If there are reports of widely intermittent hangs, then a week of no hangs on a new machine is not enough to declare it fit.
I would have to say that I have had this exact problem on my last two laptops - a PowerbookG4 15" hi-res (last PB), and a new MBP Santa Rosa 17" (with nVidia).
The machine freezes while doing a Command-Tab to switch between applications. The cursor moves in response to the mouse, but nothing else. The power button/closing lid can sleep the machine and also wake it. But the only solution is a hard reboot. The console logs show no apparent or obvious problem!
It is not frequent - perhaps every month (its happened just once on the MBP).
I'm getting this problem with command+tab on my MacBook 2GHz Intel Core Duo. (One of the original ones).
So I think it might be a more widespread issue in Mac OS X itself, rather than being a firmware issue on a specific mac model.
Comments
My computer was fine untill I downloaded the first software update, it pretty much freezes everyday. The IMAC was my first MAC and I want so much to believe in their reliability but right now I'm not seeing it. My 5 year old windows XP computer wasn't perfect but I was always able to fix it and it was a frankenstein creation (home built) .
I've installed all current updates on these new iMacs so they are "up-to-date"; nothing showing up in Software Update that is.
From what I've read in other forums, aside from the graphics card, some people experiencing the freezes had used migration assistant to transfer settings to their new iMac and doing a "clean" install of OS X solve the problem for some. Since this is your first Mac, you wouldn't fall in this catergory. Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
I've installed all current updates on these new iMacs so they are "up-to-date"; nothing showing up in Software Update that is.
From what I've read in other forums, aside from the graphics card, some people experiencing the freezes had used migration assistant to transfer settings to their new iMac and doing a "clean" install of OS X solve the problem for some. Since this is your first Mac, you wouldn't fall in this catergory. Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
If it were to solve the problem I suppose so its just a big hassle especially since this i actually the second IMAC of this current line that I owned (I bought the first the very day they came out and when I was installing bootcamp and XP the computer got screwed up and wouldn't go any where after the power on chime, so I took it to an apple store and had it replaced!)
... but it's hard to tell for sure. I was (stupidly) running P'shop CS3, iTunes, InDesign CS3, maybe Preview, too, and MS Remote Desktop Connection (beta) to my PC laptop. Pretty freakin' dumb with only 2gb RAM.
How much stuff you are running has nothing to do with OS stability.
The OS is either good or not.
If your Apple crashed, either the OS or the hardware has a problem.
The idea that "certain apps" cause crashes is complete mythology.
A properly written OS on good hardware should work regardless of what an application does. That's its job.
Are you in a position to just bite the bullet and do a clean install to see if that will solve your freezing problem?
I have clean installed my iMac repeatedly and had no effect on the problem whatsoever. Indeed, this was a pre-requisite for replacement of the unit under AppleCare. They did replace my iMac once I had proven that it hung even when running a fresh installation of the OS and no 3rd party software or hardware.
I literally bought a MacBook so that I could still work while the iMac was running for a couple weeks with none of my own data or apps or peripherals!
Guess what? The iMac kept crashing ... and the new MacBook did too! Exactly the same problem on both machines, for the last five months.
This issue is certainly not limited to the new iMac, my MacBook Pro 17" Core 2 Duo is having the same symptoms.
For what it's worth, my new macbook pro 15" 2.2 Duo hasn't crashed once since I got it a month ago. According to the Software update, I am up to date except for the Webobjects 5.3.3 and Battery Update 1.3 -- which require restarting, and I don't want to restart at the moment.
I've used Dell Inspirons in the past, some with ATI cards installed and in those cases there's always been problems.
Why has Apple gone for this substandard manufacturer when there's better and stronger NVidia cards out there? I'd be happy to pay another ?50 or so for a better card.
Let's hope Leopard fixes this otherwise suddenly Apple's lost its edge.
/pullman
How much stuff you are running has nothing to do with OS stability.
The OS is either good or not.
If your Apple crashed, either the OS or the hardware has a problem.
The idea that "certain apps" cause crashes is complete mythology.
A properly written OS on good hardware should work regardless of what an application does. That's its job.
mmmm ... well he was running MS desktop remote ...
Exact same problems on my new aluminum iMac 20" (2.4 GHz) with the same video card (ATI Radeon HD 2600). Occasionally it will freeze up like this, with the mouse still moving but nothing else will work, and eventually it all goes south and I have to restart manually. Typically this happens when the computer has been on for a while and I'm doing something that involves graphical effects, like Dashboard or iMovie.
I get the "ASIC Hang Log" every time it freezes. I've accumulated about a dozen of those now; I save them every time.
I've followed this issue closely, and at least on the aluminum iMacs, it appears to be the same thing. There is a definite issue revolving around the ATI cards or drivers that is currently producing the same issues for a lot of people. It's not always consistent or reproducible, but it's there. There's no way this is all a huge coincidence.
When is Apple going to admit this problem? I'm sick of AppleCare insisting they've never heard of it before. The retail stores are not much better, just running tests that have nothing to do with this issue, and giving people replacement iMacs with the same issue.
Since my last post, my iMac has crashed about a dozen times always when I've been using Aperture while it was doing some background task and I was in iTunes or doing email or looking at Safari.... I would be interested in logging these crashes too but am unfamiliar with how to do it. I looked at the Terminal Activity monitor but don't see a log. How do you do it?
I, too, am sick of Apple Care. I've spent too much money on this computer for it to not run properly. Besides, I have other things to do other than restart my machine every 30 minutes...
How much stuff you are running has nothing to do with OS stability.
The OS is either good or not.
If your Apple crashed, either the OS or the hardware has a problem.
The idea that "certain apps" cause crashes is complete mythology.
A properly written OS on good hardware should work regardless of what an application does. That's its job.
I did admin work in the 80's for a cluster of Sun systems. The programmers were being sent to a local university in waves, taking advanced classes in process communications. Every so often, all my systems would just start crashing and I tracked it down to the classwork - if I remember correctly, when they tried to use a socket they hadn't initialized. While the fix was to modify the OS, the fact of the matter was that the OS ran well written programs just fine.
Last month I bought a Logictech VX Nano for my MBP, then downloaded and installed their drivers. Crashes, freezes, etc. Removed it and haven't had a problem since.
Certain apps cause crashes, especially when the app is a hardware driver. There isn't an OS in the world that can prevent all the crappy apps from causing problems. Your "properly written OS" doesn't exist.
My computer was fine untill I downloaded the first software update, it pretty much freezes everyday. The IMAC was my first MAC and I want so much to believe in their reliability but right now I'm not seeing it. My 5 year old windows XP computer wasn't perfect but I was always able to fix it and it was a frankenstein creation (home built) .
That's the advantage of building your own. I have done so for the past 20 years with great results. All except my Macs, of course. Perhaps if Apple decided to release a Mac in kit form? Just kidding. But is it as farfetched as it sounds? Closest to the concept is the Mac Pro where you can you can switch/change/troubleshoot most everything on your own. I'd like a simpler MacPro.
Just reinstalled the OS having not wasted too much time trying to fix stuff and it seems to be running ok again. Now back to migrating manually...
Yes, I have to agree it's graphics related. If I run a graphics app such as Photoshop CS3 (and Bridge CS3 in conjunction) and walk away for a length of time, usually until the display goes to sleep after 2 hours or if I've run a graphics app and then, hours later run a game such as World of Warcraft, then yes, somewhere along the line I get a freeze. However, more often than not I have no issues at all, my machine running reliably for at least a week without being shut down or rebooted after playing WoW and working with graphics (not concurrently) for extensive periods.
One possibility which I have not heard mentioned is thermal runaway. I monitor my machine and note that under normal circumstances my CPU runs at about 48˚C most of the time while my GPU runs near 60˚C, frequently as high as 65˚. I expect that being one of the 24" "Extreme" models might have some effect, the larger cooling slot helping to cool the components, but I also have the computer set up on a stand about 2 inches above what the base lifts it, allowing more airflow under it while the unit sits at least 8" away from any wall or obstacle. The only exception to this is an external hard drive purchased for my Mini which is now tied to the iMac instead and resting on the iMac's base.
More often than I can tell, I have run into issues with electronics getting too hot and failing, only to start operating correctly again once it cools down. The temperature differential in such circumstances can be as little as a 1˚ difference between operational and failure. The iMac, like most newer Macs are designed for the best possible airflow over the components, but anything blocking these ports or restricting airflow around the computer could have an effect.
Try moving the clutter away from your machine or try using some sort of air circulation around the computer to help cool it and see if that makes a difference. Maybe - just maybe - your lockups won't be as frequent.
My new iMac is stuck with FedEx (being shipped directly from China) and I probably won't have it for at least a week since I'm in Europe now. Hopefully, things will be better with this one.
The longer version of the story can be found here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=24675433
Best of luck to all with iMac problems.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....art=0&tstart=0
I would be very interested to hear remarks from those experiencing similar issues - I am "leonifan" on that thread (as I am here).
Since I sent the machine back for physical repair (graphics card), this issue has gone completely, in both OS X and XP.
I will not be entirely satisfied until I have been running the machine for several weeks (the original problem seemed to appear after time, and gradually worsened), but it seems that hardware is the definite cause in my case.
ATI seem to be the (manufacturing?) culprit here, it seems.
ATI seem to be the (manufacturing?) culprit here, it seems.
To all you "troubleshooters" who can't reason your way out of a wet paper bag, I will just keep repeating it: there are numerous reports of this problem on machines with nvidia cards.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
It's not just Macs with ATI.
Stop saying it seems to be ATI!
Also, to everyone who has had their iMac for a week and it "seems fine," please be advised that the problem is intermittent for most people, with an interval of up to two weeks. Many times I have gone 7, 10, 12 days without a hang ... only two have three in a day.
Also, to everyone who is convinced that these hangs are associated with [insert application you happen to use a lot] ? yes, it's worth trying to pin down a correlation like that, but if you read all the threads out there about this, it gets obvious really quick that the hangs are not correlated with any particular application. I have been through many phases with this, when I was sure that "most" of the hangs were associated with a certain app, but after about fifty of these hangs occurring virtually no matter what I'm doing (or not doing) with the machine, I'm slowly getting the picture that there is no one application.
A story ...
Once, sometime in the summer, the hanging problem got so bad that I finally had reproduceability. Hangs accelerated rapidly over a couple of days, until I could literally make the machine hang, in exactly the same way as the random hangs, simply by launching Mail.app. Seriously. Launch Mail ... bork! Launch Mail ... bork!
I danced for joy. Reproduceability! Coolay, callay, etc. I trashed my Mail folder, started from scratch, and my hanging stopped. Wow. Cool. After months of hanging, I thought I finally had my culprit.
10 days passed.
It hung.
And the problem was back, regularly, from then on, no matter what I did to Mail.app.
So ... would everyone pretty puh-lease stop jumping to conclusions and starting applying a little logic! If there are numerous reports of nvidia machines hanging, it's not exclusively an ati problem. If there are reports of many different apps associated with the hangs, then it's not any particular app. If there are reports of widely intermittent hangs, then a week of no hangs on a new machine is not enough to declare it fit.
I would have to say that I have had this exact problem on my last two laptops - a PowerbookG4 15" hi-res (last PB), and a new MBP Santa Rosa 17" (with nVidia).
The machine freezes while doing a Command-Tab to switch between applications. The cursor moves in response to the mouse, but nothing else. The power button/closing lid can sleep the machine and also wake it. But the only solution is a hard reboot. The console logs show no apparent or obvious problem!
It is not frequent - perhaps every month (its happened just once on the MBP).
I'm getting this problem with command+tab on my MacBook 2GHz Intel Core Duo. (One of the original ones).
So I think it might be a more widespread issue in Mac OS X itself, rather than being a firmware issue on a specific mac model.