Stacks is a visual disaster! How in the blue blazes could Apple come to the conclusion that Stacks is a visually superior metaphor unless they designed it specifically for the iPhone or Touch? It's absurd for normal Mac use. Horrible!
Visually I think Stacks is lovely... Sorry if that's not popular. However I do appreciate it is stupid they removed the hierarchical menu system from the right-click. That was a silly move. Hopefully they'll bring it back.
However - I think it'd be even better if they continued the analogy to the open apps... Imagine being able to alt-click (or something) on the app icon in the dock, and all that app's open windows opened in a fan... That would be great!
I also think that stacks are OK, visually, but apple seems to have trimmed down its potential for release. At one stage you could navigate through folders and the grid view would update to show the contents of the folders as you went. These would be like the popup tabbed folders that were in Mac OS 9, only visually better.
The absence of tabbed folders in Mac OS X was like a step backwards coming from OS 9. They were dynamic in that once you got the file you wanted and doubled clicked it to open, the tabbed Finder window popped back into the edge of the screen an out of the way, a bit like a drawer.
I suspect that there must have been something buggy about the stacks operating in this navigable way, hence it was dropped several build before Gold Master. I would hate to think that it was dropped because SJ thought it would be to complex for novice users. A big mistake in my opinion as this would make stacks a killer feature.
And, I totally sympathize and understand those who want to retain the menus. There is no need for Apple to drop these integral parts to users workflows. Another with this iteration of OS X is the disappearance of the search view in Finder searches and smart folders. The search view was the most attractive part of Spotlight when Tiger came out and could be put to some really good uses in everyday work scenarios.
I think most people are in agreement that stacks are visually appealing. So you aren't in the minority there.
In fact, stacks would have been met with a deafening silence if apple hadn't simultaneously removed hierarchal folder access from the dock. Stacks would be bad, but completely ignorable, if functionality hadn't been removed to make way for them.
There are a number of glaring interface problems:
Constantly changing icons: The average user stands no chance in hell of remembering which stack is which when the icons keep changing. This is compounded by items in the dock not having a static location.
Inconsistent behavior: The items in the dock now behave in drastically different manners. Drag some items out of the dock and they get moved. Drag others and they disappear. This wouldn't be so bad if the items in the dock had a static icon or location. Stacks have neither.
Fan display mode: This one is obviously complete bullshit. There is no nice term to describe how bad of an idea this was. For thousands of years we've experimented with putting text onto a 2D surface. Even back in the dark ages we knew that aligning text to a curved line makes the reading or scanning of that text slower and more error prone.
No list-view: With grid and fan views as the only options, there is no efficient method for displaying the contents of folders with many items. Grids of objects and names are not nearly as efficient for visually scanning as are your typical vertical list.
Many users used to keep folders in their dock for quick access to commonly used documents and applications. Stacks have removed these users' primary method for quickly launching apps or opening documents.
For these users, it is as asinine as if apple had removed list-view from the finder.
I suspect that there must have been something buggy about the stacks operating in this navigable way, hence it was dropped several build before Gold Master.
I've also theorized (and prayed) that this was the case.
There really isn't any other reasonable explanation. It is difficult to believe that apple purposely made such an interface blunder. It would be more understandable if they meant to have a hierarchical list-view for stacks but that it wasn't stable enough for release.
Nobody stated "list view" had been removed. Dfiler compared removing hierarchical file browsing from the Dock with what it would be like if Apple had removed the List View from Finder.
Nobody stated "list view" had been removed. Dfiler compared removing hierarchical file browsing from the Dock with what it would be like if Apple had removed the List View from Finder.
OK. The aim of stacks is to 'reduce clutter' on your desktop.
The way I used to do this was by putting folders I used frequently in the dock. When I clicked on them I got a finder window, which opened to the preference I'd set, which was list view, because it's the easiest way to find the file you need, being alphabeticised.
For my purposes, stacks are supposed to serve exactly the same function, but they don't. Apple has reduced the efficiency of the interface for the sake of 'simplicity', and it's very irritating.
Yes, I know I can click on the '50 more items in finder' arrow, but if it's now quicker for me to get to me data by having a frigging alias on my previously uncluttered desktop, what's the point?
I use my Mac for my job. I use it all day, every day, not for making ossum home movies, not for sharing photo albums with my nuclear family or cutting hot funk tracks with a USB adaptor on the guitar from my attic with Garage Band, but FOR WORK. It really feels like someone's trying to make my computer into a toy, and it's really exasperating.
OK. The aim of stacks is to 'reduce clutter' on your desktop.
The way I used to do this was by putting folders I used frequently in the dock. When I clicked on them I got a finder window, which opened to the preference I'd set, which was list view, because it's the easiest way to find the file you need, being alphabeticised.
For my purposes, stacks are supposed to serve exactly the same function, but they don't. Apple has reduced the efficiency of the interface for the sake of 'simplicity', and it's very irritating.
Yes, I know I can click on the '50 more items in finder' arrow, but if it's now quicker for me to get to me data by having a frigging alias on my previously uncluttered desktop, what's the point?
I use my Mac for my job. I use it all day, every day, not for making ossum home movies, not for sharing photo albums with my nuclear family or cutting hot funk tracks with a USB adaptor on the guitar from my attic with Garage Band, but FOR WORK. It really feels like someone's trying to make my computer into a toy, and it's really exasperating.
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
By using an alias the folder will open in Finder with one click. It's not a replacement for the old folder-in-Dock, because you do not get back hierarchical browsing in context menu. Spring loading doesn't work for the aliases either.
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
i dont know what the hell is going on with stacks. but i cant find a reason to use them.
for those of you who dont know, you can "command + click" to get them to open in finder, which i constantly find myself doing.
the only way i could see stacks being useful would be if smart folders were capable of being a stack. say, you set a folder to apps or files opened in the last 3 days...that would be handy/
any other suggestions?
I have never used stacks since I loaded 10.5 the day after it came out. To me, if I saw the crooked stack, I would think there is something wrong with my computer. And I have no use for it.
The main problem with stacks is not that they are a flawed concept, but a watered-down implementation of a good idea. If you look back at the WWDC '07 Keynote, you will quickly see that stacks as we now know them are a far cry from their original design.
Imagine: you have 5 documents that you need to use for a project at work. These files are scattered about on your hard drive, and they are hard to get to. To easily access they all, drag the files to the dock to make a stack. The stack gains a layered icon that separates it from the icon of a regular folder on the dock.
The problems occurred when the implementation was apparently buggy. Arbitrary files placed in stacks apparently became too much of a hassle to continue developing, so the new rule that only folders can become a stack.
But, in the original plan, folders in the dock and stacks were two different things, but now must be created in exactly the same way: by dragging a folder to the dock. The older method of folders lost the struggle between uses, and regular folders gained the layered icon and the stacked views. The loss of hierarchal folders, right or wrong, is a result of Jobs presenting a feature too early, and the engineers having to find a way around it.
Kinda takes the fun out of prognostication of Apple products, eh?
Comments
However, their removal is exactly same as removing list-view from the finder.
Certainly a few people "don't like" list-view either. But that is no reason to remove such highly relied upon functionality.
However - I think it'd be even better if they continued the analogy to the open apps... Imagine being able to alt-click (or something) on the app icon in the dock, and all that app's open windows opened in a fan... That would be great!
The absence of tabbed folders in Mac OS X was like a step backwards coming from OS 9. They were dynamic in that once you got the file you wanted and doubled clicked it to open, the tabbed Finder window popped back into the edge of the screen an out of the way, a bit like a drawer.
I suspect that there must have been something buggy about the stacks operating in this navigable way, hence it was dropped several build before Gold Master. I would hate to think that it was dropped because SJ thought it would be to complex for novice users. A big mistake in my opinion as this would make stacks a killer feature.
And, I totally sympathize and understand those who want to retain the menus. There is no need for Apple to drop these integral parts to users workflows. Another with this iteration of OS X is the disappearance of the search view in Finder searches and smart folders. The search view was the most attractive part of Spotlight when Tiger came out and could be put to some really good uses in everyday work scenarios.
In fact, stacks would have been met with a deafening silence if apple hadn't simultaneously removed hierarchal folder access from the dock. Stacks would be bad, but completely ignorable, if functionality hadn't been removed to make way for them.
There are a number of glaring interface problems:
Constantly changing icons: The average user stands no chance in hell of remembering which stack is which when the icons keep changing. This is compounded by items in the dock not having a static location.
Inconsistent behavior: The items in the dock now behave in drastically different manners. Drag some items out of the dock and they get moved. Drag others and they disappear. This wouldn't be so bad if the items in the dock had a static icon or location. Stacks have neither.
Fan display mode: This one is obviously complete bullshit. There is no nice term to describe how bad of an idea this was. For thousands of years we've experimented with putting text onto a 2D surface. Even back in the dark ages we knew that aligning text to a curved line makes the reading or scanning of that text slower and more error prone.
No list-view: With grid and fan views as the only options, there is no efficient method for displaying the contents of folders with many items. Grids of objects and names are not nearly as efficient for visually scanning as are your typical vertical list.
Many users used to keep folders in their dock for quick access to commonly used documents and applications. Stacks have removed these users' primary method for quickly launching apps or opening documents.
For these users, it is as asinine as if apple had removed list-view from the finder.
I suspect that there must have been something buggy about the stacks operating in this navigable way, hence it was dropped several build before Gold Master.
I've also theorized (and prayed) that this was the case.
There really isn't any other reasonable explanation. It is difficult to believe that apple purposely made such an interface blunder. It would be more understandable if they meant to have a hierarchical list-view for stacks but that it wasn't stable enough for release.
fingers crossed...
What's all this talk of removing list view in the Finder? I have all sorts of list view in my Finder. Do you need me to take a screenshot?
Do it! Do it! Heh, heh.
What's all this talk of removing list view in the Finder? I have all sorts of list view in my Finder. Do you need me to take a screenshot?
I think we may be talking about Stacks here, not the Finder.
I think we may be talking about Stacks here, not the Finder.
Given that stacks are a new feature, I don't see how "list view" could have somehow been removed from it.
Nobody stated "list view" had been removed. Dfiler compared removing hierarchical file browsing from the Dock with what it would be like if Apple had removed the List View from Finder.
Yes exactly, if......
Lol, just thought I'd emphysize that a little.
The way I used to do this was by putting folders I used frequently in the dock. When I clicked on them I got a finder window, which opened to the preference I'd set, which was list view, because it's the easiest way to find the file you need, being alphabeticised.
For my purposes, stacks are supposed to serve exactly the same function, but they don't. Apple has reduced the efficiency of the interface for the sake of 'simplicity', and it's very irritating.
Yes, I know I can click on the '50 more items in finder' arrow, but if it's now quicker for me to get to me data by having a frigging alias on my previously uncluttered desktop, what's the point?
I use my Mac for my job. I use it all day, every day, not for making ossum home movies, not for sharing photo albums with my nuclear family or cutting hot funk tracks with a USB adaptor on the guitar from my attic with Garage Band, but FOR WORK. It really feels like someone's trying to make my computer into a toy, and it's really exasperating.
OK. The aim of stacks is to 'reduce clutter' on your desktop.
The way I used to do this was by putting folders I used frequently in the dock. When I clicked on them I got a finder window, which opened to the preference I'd set, which was list view, because it's the easiest way to find the file you need, being alphabeticised.
For my purposes, stacks are supposed to serve exactly the same function, but they don't. Apple has reduced the efficiency of the interface for the sake of 'simplicity', and it's very irritating.
Yes, I know I can click on the '50 more items in finder' arrow, but if it's now quicker for me to get to me data by having a frigging alias on my previously uncluttered desktop, what's the point?
I use my Mac for my job. I use it all day, every day, not for making ossum home movies, not for sharing photo albums with my nuclear family or cutting hot funk tracks with a USB adaptor on the guitar from my attic with Garage Band, but FOR WORK. It really feels like someone's trying to make my computer into a toy, and it's really exasperating.
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
By using an alias the folder will open in Finder with one click. It's not a replacement for the old folder-in-Dock, because you do not get back hierarchical browsing in context menu. Spring loading doesn't work for the aliases either.
I don't have leopard yet, so I can't confirm this from my own experience, but isn't it true that you can get the same functionality back by using aliases in the dock? Or something like that?
Ah.
Yes.
You can.
Ah.
Yes.
You can.
Cool. (They're still terrible though.)
i dont know what the hell is going on with stacks. but i cant find a reason to use them.
for those of you who dont know, you can "command + click" to get them to open in finder, which i constantly find myself doing.
the only way i could see stacks being useful would be if smart folders were capable of being a stack. say, you set a folder to apps or files opened in the last 3 days...that would be handy/
any other suggestions?
I have never used stacks since I loaded 10.5 the day after it came out. To me, if I saw the crooked stack, I would think there is something wrong with my computer. And I have no use for it.
Imagine: you have 5 documents that you need to use for a project at work. These files are scattered about on your hard drive, and they are hard to get to. To easily access they all, drag the files to the dock to make a stack. The stack gains a layered icon that separates it from the icon of a regular folder on the dock.
The problems occurred when the implementation was apparently buggy. Arbitrary files placed in stacks apparently became too much of a hassle to continue developing, so the new rule that only folders can become a stack.
But, in the original plan, folders in the dock and stacks were two different things, but now must be created in exactly the same way: by dragging a folder to the dock. The older method of folders lost the struggle between uses, and regular folders gained the layered icon and the stacked views. The loss of hierarchal folders, right or wrong, is a result of Jobs presenting a feature too early, and the engineers having to find a way around it.
Kinda takes the fun out of prognostication of Apple products, eh?