When the difference in component prices drops from over a grand to about $250 it makes a large difference of those of us who have five digit incomes and therefore a finite amount of money.
The end cost is still the same. About a two grand machine. If you're hurting that bad from a budget standpoint you wait one product cycle. Neither prosumers or pro's are hurting that bad if they are considering two grand machines (your 8GB RAM scenario) in the first place.
There's still that giant gap between the family iMac and the ultra professional Mac Pro.
I agree completely with you, but I find it hilarious that today's iMac is delegated to the 'family' labeling, when it is one sweet piece of machinery, dead ended or not.
I still can't get over the fact that with the iMac i'm FORCED to have a glossy screen and FORCED into a weak 128bit card like the 2600. I find this so funny since last rev's 7600gt beats it hands down.
I agree completely with you, but I find it hilarious that today's iMac is delegated to the 'family' labeling, when it is one sweet piece of machinery, dead ended or not.
You are so right about the gap, though.
It's a very good machine for those it's designed for, that being said it really stops in capability at a higher end MATX machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
I'd say.
But. BUT. If they put or could put the new 8800GT or the new 'high-mid' ATI card in the iMac?
I'd snap and buy one.
I covet the iMac like somebody else's pretty wife.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I would be pretty happy if my iMac had a 8800GT in it. That being said, I have a feeling that 2600Pro might have been the highest end card that could fit in the iMac.
Actually I would have bought the iMac too if it would have had that video card. And thats just because I needed another Mac in my household before I buy a new Mac Pro. Which could turn out to be another PC now that Mac OS is up and running on other intel PC's. Well have to see though. Again it's all up to Apple.
Actually I would have bought the iMac too if it would have had that video card. And thats just because I needed another Mac in my household before I buy a new Mac Pro. Which could turn out to be another PC now that Mac OS is up and running on other intel PC's. Well have to see though. Again it's all up to Apple.
It's a very good machine for those it's designed for, that being said it really stops in capability at a higher end MATX machine.
I would be pretty happy if my iMac had a 8800GT in it. That being said, I have a feeling that 2600Pro might have been the highest end card that could fit in the iMac.
I have an iMac G3 500 Mgh and an aging G4 Yikes that I've brought from 350 mgh to a 1 Gig... the iMac you describe is as far above my aging pair as homo superior above the neandrathal.
...okay, not that extreme... but Photoshop runs a whole lot slower than on my Mac Pro at work.
At work today, I heard a conversation between two techs about buying a new iMac. One tech said the online "have it your way" Apple store site didn't have what he wanted, so he called and got what he wanted. He claimed he called (Apple??) direct and was able to get the iMac configured his way- which was an upgraded video card. I had to leave before I could butt into the conversation and ask questions.
Of course, he could have been full of BS. Has anyone heard of this before?
Actually I would have bought the iMac too if it would have had that video card. And thats just because I needed another Mac in my household before I buy a new Mac Pro. Which could turn out to be another PC now that Mac OS is up and running on other intel PC's. Well have to see though. Again it's all up to Apple.
Take it from me... you probably don't want to go down this road unless it is for a hobby.
I have some of the most compatible PC hardware, and I'm thinking of selling the pc for a new mac pro when they come out. I have a e6750 overclocked to 3.25. It runs 10.4.10 like a champ. But everything from audio updates to graphics updates to point updates break it... gets old having to re-patch it.
On the same token... I haven't had 1 Kernel Panic with it. And I have had 2 with my mbp 2.33. So go figure .
But there is other incompatibilities. For instance: Adobe CS3 doesn't run unless you crack it (which i won't do because I bought it). The reason is because the software attempts to read a genuine apple hardware serial number... and crashes.
Long story long... it is a fun hobby but not worth making a full time machine out of it. You may want to reconsider and think about the next mac pro instead. I felt I had the best of both worlds by building my own... in the end I just used my mbp as my work machine.
And I'm glad you brought this up Onlooker. More and more people are going down this route. They are finding they can run os x on their pc and get away with basic things like 3d modeling (lol @ basic), internet stuff, photo editing (aperture, iphoto), sound editing, etc. A lot of these users have admitted it is because Apple does NOT have a mid-tower / Desktop solution that fits their needs. So they go out of their way to build a machine and spend hours hacking it. If this gets much easier I can picture apple losing sales. Then piracy will ramp up on the Apple OS... which means... apple will lose money. Is this an extreme that takes intelligent users? Sure. But like I said, if it gets any easier it could hurt apple in the end. They could easily distract a lot of these users if they had a mid-tower / desktop solution. WHAT THEY WANT!
At work today, I heard a conversation between two techs about buying a new iMac. One tech said the online "have it your way" Apple store site didn't have what he wanted, so he called and got what he wanted. He claimed he called (Apple??) direct and was able to get the iMac configured his way- which was an upgraded video card. I had to leave before I could butt into the conversation and ask questions.
Of course, he could have been full of BS. Has anyone heard of this before?
Maybe he's talking about going from 2400xt to 2600pro? Or maybe last rev and going from x1600 to 7600gt?
. . . More and more people are . . . finding they can run os x on their pc and get away with basic things like 3d modeling (lol @ basic), internet stuff, photo editing (aperture, iphoto), sound editing, etc. A lot of these users have admitted it is because Apple does NOT have a mid-tower / Desktop solution that fits their needs. . .
[Apple] could easily distract a lot of these users if they had a mid-tower / desktop solution. WHAT THEY WANT!
Interesting. Could many sales of Leopard be going for PCs? It would be ironic if there are twice as many OS X users as Mac users. Could the following tidbit support this possibility?
Quote:
Piper Jaffray senior analyst Gene Munster issued a research note to developers on Tuesday which noted that Apple's sale of two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard during its first weekend on sale was a dramatic improvement that showed the new release was not simply profiting from existing users but triggering sales to first-time customers. . .
By comparison, Mac OS X Tiger took 39 days to reach the same sales mark -- a 13-fold increase despite a Mac OS X user base that had only doubled in the space of two and a half years. . .
I did read there was a way to convert normal leopard installs to work on your pc (i won't dare post it here, you'll have to find it on your own). However, 9 times out of 10 someone has to get a "hacked" copy to run on the pc hardware. Basically, you need a copy with a bunch of drivers to support various chipsets. It would be interesting to know how many installed it on a real mac vs "something else" out of the 2 million that were sold though ô.O
Dell has moved into the all-in-one PC market pioneered by Apple with the iMac, with Monday?s introduction of the XPS One, a new Intel-based Windows-compatible PC. The system starts at $1,499.
It's outclassed as a computer by Apple's iMac, and as a home entertainment system by a recent HP, but in the weird niche of high-end, digital-media-friendly all-in-ones (of which we know of one other competitor) the Dell XPS One gets our nod. If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.
It's outclassed as a computer by Apple's iMac, and as a home entertainment system by a recent HP, but in the weird niche of high-end, digital-media-friendly all-in-ones (of which we know of one other competitor) the Dell XPS One gets our nod.
It also has some improvements over the iMac: no shiny screen, optional blu-ray, optional TV Tuner, SD card reader (the iMac only has 3 USB ports so an internal one would be nice), a clip at the back so that if you move your computer, it doesn't yank out the power cord (this happens on the Mini too), easy access to the internals by unscrewing the back, touch sensing media buttons, and no freakin' chin!!
So, now that the PC world has a few 'iMacs', it's surely about time we get the mid-range towers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.[/i]
Easy to say for a PC user. Mac users have nowhere else to move to.
If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.[/i]....
This is the key phrase. Apple competes in a "narrow market".
If the improbable happens and AIO actually catches on with the Windows market, where exactly will that leave Apple?
More competition?
Less margins?
Fewer switchers?
So far only Sony has gone solely to AIO and their target seems much more media oriented(ie. the TV is the computer hub in the living room) I seriously doubt HP, Compac, Gateway or Dell will abandon the consumer friendly tower any time soon.
So, if there is an actual market demanding AIO design this might only cause Apple trouble.
Then again, I think Dell's, HP's and whomever else enters the AIO market will soon realize what a very narrow market this is and will relegate it accordingly.
Such as 20-inch 1,680 x 1050 display, Intel Celeron, Intel Pentium D, or 2.33 Core Duo, Intel GMA or ATI Radeon HD 2400, no firewire 800, no optical audio input, 500GB HDD, and uses Windows.
Quote:
This is the key phrase. Apple competes in a "narrow market".
Well Gateway and Dell must see something there to introduce new products.
Quote:
If the improbable happens and AIO actually catches on with the Windows market, where exactly will that leave Apple?
More competition?
Less margins?
Fewer switchers?
Apple does not really compete in that way. Dell is competing against Sony and Gateway.
Quote:
Then again, I think Dell's, HP's and whomever else enters the AIO market will soon realize what a very narrow market this is and will relegate it accordingly.
We'll have to see. But I think they are all competing for the success of the iMac in the PC market.
Comments
When the difference in component prices drops from over a grand to about $250 it makes a large difference of those of us who have five digit incomes and therefore a finite amount of money.
The end cost is still the same. About a two grand machine. If you're hurting that bad from a budget standpoint you wait one product cycle. Neither prosumers or pro's are hurting that bad if they are considering two grand machines (your 8GB RAM scenario) in the first place.
There's still that giant gap between the family iMac and the ultra professional Mac Pro.
I agree completely with you, but I find it hilarious that today's iMac is delegated to the 'family' labeling, when it is one sweet piece of machinery, dead ended or not.
You are so right about the gap, though.
There's still that giant gap between the family iMac and the ultra professional Mac Pro.
I'd say.
But. BUT. If they put or could put the new 8800GT or the new 'high-mid' ATI card in the iMac?
I'd snap and buy one.
I covet the iMac like somebody else's pretty wife.
Lemon Bon Bon.
There's still that giant gap between the family iMac and the ultra professional Mac Pro.
No kidding.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I covet the iMac like somebody else's pretty wife.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Hahahahahaha
Quoted For Truth!
I agree completely with you, but I find it hilarious that today's iMac is delegated to the 'family' labeling, when it is one sweet piece of machinery, dead ended or not.
You are so right about the gap, though.
It's a very good machine for those it's designed for, that being said it really stops in capability at a higher end MATX machine.
I'd say.
But. BUT. If they put or could put the new 8800GT or the new 'high-mid' ATI card in the iMac?
I'd snap and buy one.
I covet the iMac like somebody else's pretty wife.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I would be pretty happy if my iMac had a 8800GT in it. That being said, I have a feeling that 2600Pro might have been the highest end card that could fit in the iMac.
Actually I would have bought the iMac too if it would have had that video card. And thats just because I needed another Mac in my household before I buy a new Mac Pro. Which could turn out to be another PC now that Mac OS is up and running on other intel PC's. Well have to see though. Again it's all up to Apple.
Say What!
It's a very good machine for those it's designed for, that being said it really stops in capability at a higher end MATX machine.
I would be pretty happy if my iMac had a 8800GT in it. That being said, I have a feeling that 2600Pro might have been the highest end card that could fit in the iMac.
I have an iMac G3 500 Mgh and an aging G4 Yikes that I've brought from 350 mgh to a 1 Gig... the iMac you describe is as far above my aging pair as homo superior above the neandrathal.
...okay, not that extreme... but Photoshop runs a whole lot slower than on my Mac Pro at work.
Of course, he could have been full of BS. Has anyone heard of this before?
Actually I would have bought the iMac too if it would have had that video card. And thats just because I needed another Mac in my household before I buy a new Mac Pro. Which could turn out to be another PC now that Mac OS is up and running on other intel PC's. Well have to see though. Again it's all up to Apple.
Take it from me... you probably don't want to go down this road unless it is for a hobby.
I have some of the most compatible PC hardware, and I'm thinking of selling the pc for a new mac pro when they come out. I have a e6750 overclocked to 3.25. It runs 10.4.10 like a champ. But everything from audio updates to graphics updates to point updates break it... gets old having to re-patch it.
On the same token... I haven't had 1 Kernel Panic with it. And I have had 2 with my mbp 2.33. So go figure
But there is other incompatibilities. For instance: Adobe CS3 doesn't run unless you crack it (which i won't do because I bought it). The reason is because the software attempts to read a genuine apple hardware serial number... and crashes.
Long story long... it is a fun hobby but not worth making a full time machine out of it. You may want to reconsider and think about the next mac pro instead. I felt I had the best of both worlds by building my own... in the end I just used my mbp as my work machine.
And I'm glad you brought this up Onlooker. More and more people are going down this route. They are finding they can run os x on their pc and get away with basic things like 3d modeling (lol @ basic), internet stuff, photo editing (aperture, iphoto), sound editing, etc. A lot of these users have admitted it is because Apple does NOT have a mid-tower / Desktop solution that fits their needs. So they go out of their way to build a machine and spend hours hacking it. If this gets much easier I can picture apple losing sales. Then piracy will ramp up on the Apple OS... which means... apple will lose money. Is this an extreme that takes intelligent users? Sure. But like I said, if it gets any easier it could hurt apple in the end. They could easily distract a lot of these users if they had a mid-tower / desktop solution. WHAT THEY WANT!
/end rant
At work today, I heard a conversation between two techs about buying a new iMac. One tech said the online "have it your way" Apple store site didn't have what he wanted, so he called and got what he wanted. He claimed he called (Apple??) direct and was able to get the iMac configured his way- which was an upgraded video card. I had to leave before I could butt into the conversation and ask questions.
Of course, he could have been full of BS. Has anyone heard of this before?
Maybe he's talking about going from 2400xt to 2600pro? Or maybe last rev and going from x1600 to 7600gt?
. . . More and more people are . . . finding they can run os x on their pc and get away with basic things like 3d modeling (lol @ basic), internet stuff, photo editing (aperture, iphoto), sound editing, etc. A lot of these users have admitted it is because Apple does NOT have a mid-tower / Desktop solution that fits their needs. . .
[Apple] could easily distract a lot of these users if they had a mid-tower / desktop solution. WHAT THEY WANT!
Interesting. Could many sales of Leopard be going for PCs? It would be ironic if there are twice as many OS X users as Mac users. Could the following tidbit support this possibility?
Piper Jaffray senior analyst Gene Munster issued a research note to developers on Tuesday which noted that Apple's sale of two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard during its first weekend on sale was a dramatic improvement that showed the new release was not simply profiting from existing users but triggering sales to first-time customers. . .
By comparison, Mac OS X Tiger took 39 days to reach the same sales mark -- a 13-fold increase despite a Mac OS X user base that had only doubled in the space of two and a half years. . .
It's outclassed as a computer by Apple's iMac, and as a home entertainment system by a recent HP, but in the weird niche of high-end, digital-media-friendly all-in-ones (of which we know of one other competitor) the Dell XPS One gets our nod. If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.
It's outclassed as a computer by Apple's iMac, and as a home entertainment system by a recent HP, but in the weird niche of high-end, digital-media-friendly all-in-ones (of which we know of one other competitor) the Dell XPS One gets our nod.
It also has some improvements over the iMac: no shiny screen, optional blu-ray, optional TV Tuner, SD card reader (the iMac only has 3 USB ports so an internal one would be nice), a clip at the back so that if you move your computer, it doesn't yank out the power cord (this happens on the Mini too), easy access to the internals by unscrewing the back, touch sensing media buttons, and no freakin' chin!!
So, now that the PC world has a few 'iMacs', it's surely about time we get the mid-range towers.
If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.[/i]
Easy to say for a PC user. Mac users have nowhere else to move to.
.....
If you're not shopping in that narrow market, move on.[/i]....
This is the key phrase. Apple competes in a "narrow market".
If the improbable happens and AIO actually catches on with the Windows market, where exactly will that leave Apple?
More competition?
Less margins?
Fewer switchers?
So far only Sony has gone solely to AIO and their target seems much more media oriented(ie. the TV is the computer hub in the living room) I seriously doubt HP, Compac, Gateway or Dell will abandon the consumer friendly tower any time soon.
So, if there is an actual market demanding AIO design this might only cause Apple trouble.
Then again, I think Dell's, HP's and whomever else enters the AIO market will soon realize what a very narrow market this is and will relegate it accordingly.
It also has some improvements over the iMac:
Such as 20-inch 1,680 x 1050 display, Intel Celeron, Intel Pentium D, or 2.33 Core Duo, Intel GMA or ATI Radeon HD 2400, no firewire 800, no optical audio input, 500GB HDD, and uses Windows.
This is the key phrase. Apple competes in a "narrow market".
Well Gateway and Dell must see something there to introduce new products.
If the improbable happens and AIO actually catches on with the Windows market, where exactly will that leave Apple?
More competition?
Less margins?
Fewer switchers?
Apple does not really compete in that way. Dell is competing against Sony and Gateway.
Then again, I think Dell's, HP's and whomever else enters the AIO market will soon realize what a very narrow market this is and will relegate it accordingly.
We'll have to see. But I think they are all competing for the success of the iMac in the PC market.