Such as 20-inch 1,680 x 1050 display, Intel Celeron, Intel Pentium D, or 2.33 Core Duo, Intel GMA or ATI Radeon HD 2400, no firewire 800, no optical audio input, 500GB HDD, and uses Windows.
3 additional USB 2.0 ports including 2 on the side for easy access, a card reader, and a TV tuner. What I would give to have any of those things on my iMac. In fact, I've paying about $200 to get them. Then again, it's made for the crowd who just want to hook up a printer and go. People with higher needs are just stuck with it.
Quote:
Well Gateway and Dell must see something there to introduce new products.
They also see something in having form factors as well rather than forcing you to buy an all in one whether you want one or not. No, having to but a $2500 super professional workstation is not a REASONABLE alternative.
3 additional USB 2.0 ports including 2 on the side for easy access, a card reader, and a TV tuner. What I would give to have any of those things on my iMac.
So..... you would trade 24-inch 1920 x 1200 display, 2.8 Core Duo, ATI Radeon HD 2600, firewire 800, optical audio, 1TB HDD, and OS X for 3 additional USB 2 ports, a card reader, and a TV tuner?
Quote:
They also see something in having form factors as well rather than forcing you to buy an all in one whether you want one or not.
Looking at their quarterly profits that looks like a winning strategy. If I were to place a bet my money would say looking at their quarterly profits is the reason why they are all offering an AIO.
I think you're counting your chickens before they have hatched. They have tried this before. They have failed. When they have a significant boost in sales, then we can revisit if it was a smart decision or not. I place my bets on... not bringing in the profits they hoped for.
I didn't say I think the AIO strategy will work. I just said they are grasping for anything that will make them money.
The major flaw in Dell and Gateways' plan. Is that Apple educates and cultivates a culture around the iMac. They teach people the convenience of having an AIO. People I know with iMac's understand and appreciate the fact that their computer does not take up much space or is cluttered with lots of wires.
If I were a consumer who has never used an AIO, looking at Dell's website I don't see any particular reason why I would buy the XPS One over a tower. But chances are more likely I'd be looking at laptops than desktops in the first place.
So..... you would trade 24-inch 1920 x 1200 display, 2.8 Core Duo, ATI Radeon HD 2600, firewire 800, optical audio, 1TB HDD, and OS X for 3 additional USB 2 ports, a card reader, and a TV tuner?
Who said anything about trading features? I'm talking about adding features to make a good low to mid end multimedia machine even better. If Dell is smart enough to find places to put features consumes actually use, so can Apple.
As for the 2.8ghz iMac, i find it to be a waste. The lower mid range GPU and lack of RAM hold back the larger display and faster CPU.
Quote:
Looking at their quarterly profits that looks like a winning strategy. If I were to place a bet my money would say looking at their quarterly profits is the reason why they are all offering an AIO.
The quarterly profits are from iPods and Laptops. They, unlike the iMac, offer exactly what is expected by the user.
I'm talking about adding features to make a good low to mid end multimedia machine even better. If Dell is smart enough to find places to put features consumes actually use, so can Apple.
The XPS One has one more USB port than the iMac. Most everyone I know plugs their digital camera directly into the computer. I only know of people who take photography seriously as those that use card readers. Seeing as the use of computers as entertainment centers is a market that is not on fire. There aren't very many people demanding video I/O ports built into the computer.
Quote:
As for the 2.8ghz iMac, i find it to be a waste. The lower mid range GPU and lack of RAM hold back the larger display and faster CPU.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The GPU slowing down the CPU? The lack of RAM?
Quote:
The quarterly profits are from iPods and Laptops. They, unlike the iMac, offer exactly what is expected by the user.
Apple's desktop sales were up this past quarter. Getting out of this thread you will see there is far less dissatisfaction with the iMac than of that in this thread.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The GPU slowing down the CPU? The lack of RAM?
He means holding it back to it's full potential. IE the bottleneck in applications that use GPU and RAM are bottlenecked at the GPU and RAM points instead of the CPU... more so than desktops and workstations.
Ah Ok I see. I agree Apple could certainly improve the GPU. There are going to be some shortcoming in comparison to a full desktop or workstation. But you guys bias all of your emphasis on the negatives and ignore any of the positives.
You also ignore the obvious as it happens right in front of you. Gateway and Dell introducing new AIO clearly shows Apple is doing something right.
You also ignore the obvious as it happens right in front of you. Gateway and Dell introducing new AIO clearly shows Apple is doing something right.
I still disagree. Apple has the ability to force consumers (a small amount) into certain classes of computers. If all Apple made was a iMac, people who needed desktops would buy it. Not because it's an AIO but because it's a desktop and has OS X. The two things they want. PC manufacturers have tried multiple times over the years to release AIOs and have failed each and every time to turn enough of a profit to keep them around.
The only way I will be convinced if that apple is doing something right, is if the AIO from Gateway and Dell outsell the towers. It's not going to happen... if it does you can rub it in all you want Teno .
Time will tell if "Apple is doing something right". The only true test is if Apple offered a Desktop mac in a competitive price range to the iMac, and we witnessed which one out sold the other. Which one turned a higher profit. Which one consumers were more satisfied with. Until that day comes there will always be a question of which is better. I personally feel that SJ & Co knows this and are afraid for the AIO's life. Think about it, if they released a mid-tower and it slaughtered the iMac in sales.. they would have no choice but to either kill the iMac or completely revamp it. Which could mean the death of Apple's AIO... that's a long legacy for the company they probably don't want to kill.
The only way I will be convinced if that apple is doing something right, is if the AIO from Gateway and Dell outsell the towers. It's not going to happen... if it does you can rub it in all you want Teno
An AIO is really all the far majority of the consumer market really needs. The overwhelming majority of people don't need a tower - will never open it or add any parts to it. People are used to buying towers and don't have a full understanding of why an AIO more than meets their needs. Most people don't need nor want a tower and a separate monitor this is why notebooks are outselling desktops.
An AIO somewhat meets the advantages of a notebook and tower. The AIO takes up much less space than a tower, there are far fewer parts, and less wires to run between components. The AIO uses a full size desktop keyboard, a separate mouse, a larger screen.
Dell and Gateway may not sell very many AIO because they are not actively educating their customers on these advantages. Apple does educate its customers on these advantages.
I don't see how Dell or Gateway sales reflect if Apple is making the right moves. Apple's sales reflect that Apple is making the right moves. I do think that Apple's sales have influenced Dell and Gateway to continue making AIO.
Quote:
Gateway and DELL both had a flat panel AIO before Apple. Don't kid your self.
I know that. And they historically have not sold well. Which is what makes it so interesting that they continue to develop new AIO. Dell and Gateway are doing this because they believe AIO will sell, they are not doing it to be contrary to people in this thread.
An AIO is really all the far majority of the consumer market really needs. The overwhelming majority of people don't need a tower - will never open it or add any parts to it. People are used to buying towers and don't have a full understanding of why an AIO more than meets their needs. Most people don't need nor want a tower and a separate monitor this is why notebooks are outselling desktops.
An AIO somewhat meets the advantages of a notebook and tower. The AIO takes up much less space than a tower, there are far fewer parts, and less wires to run between components. The AIO uses a full size desktop keyboard, a separate mouse, a larger screen.
Dell and Gateway may not sell very many AIO because they are not actively educating their customers on these advantages. Apple does educate its customers on these advantages.
I don't see how Dell or Gateway sales reflect if Apple is making the right moves. Apple's sales reflect that Apple is making the right moves. I do think that Apple's sales have influenced Dell and Gateway to continue making AIO.
I know that. And they historically have not sold well. Which is what makes it so interesting that they continue to develop new AIO. Dell and Gateway are doing this because they believe AIO will sell, they are not doing it to be contrary to people in this thread.
We don't buy iMac because we're educated on their advantages, in fact from owning towers and all in ones before I'm very educated on their disadvantages. I bought it because they left me with no other choice. For novices like my parents the iMac is a great machine. for those with higher needs but not up to say making your own feature length movie, the Machine is very limiting.
That only stays true if you're happy with the slow 8x notebook burner, lack of a backup hard drive no TV tuner, and devices limited to your keyboard, printer, and iPod. About what a teenager would have. In the world other than steve Jobs propaganda, there would be an iMac with an army of extern devices cluttering your desk and power strip and then a nice clean desk with just a monitor with the tower tucked underneath the desk with all its cables out of sight.
In the world other than steve Jobs propaganda, there would be an iMac with an army of extern devices cluttering your desk and power strip and then a nice clean desk with just a monitor with the tower tucked underneath the desk with all its cables out of sight.
I don't think this is a problem specific to the iMac. Generally it seems people have their external devices on the desk or on some type of office furniture next to the desk that offers easy access. People generally want external burners, portable drives and printers in a place that is easy to get to.
Jobs RDF is not selling more notebooks than desktops as far as external devices its the same situation.
Ben covered the rest of the stuff I was gonna say so I'm going to focus on tearing this image apart. Instead... because it is clearly exaggerated.
First off, the picture on the right is a bunch of lies. There should only be 2 extra cords on the Dell vs the iMac... DVI connection and LCD Power. There are actually more than those 2. They added a card reader that sits on top of the tower (is there a card reader in the iMac??? No.). I don't know about you guys, but when I set my towers up.. I zip-tie all my cords. I make them all neat and pretty . On top of that my hackintosh sits in a desk cubby hole. You can't even see ANY cords unless you crawl underneath the desk and look behind it. Actually i lied, you can see my remote off of my speakers on top of my desk. Even the wires to the satellite speakers on my desk are cleverly hidden. Most people don't have a tower on top of the desk. Therefor the wires are out of the way. Your mileage may vary.
If anything, my MBP actually shows off my cords. 2 usb connections, Power adapter, External DVI to LCD, Ethernet, and firewire. My mbp causes more clutter on my desk than my hackintosh because it is an AIO that sits on my desk and the cords HAVE to go to my desk to get there. It looks like it has 6 tentacles coming off of it.
Because in his world 4GB is too little RAM to do any "real" work and you need an uber GPU to satisfy a "prosumer".
??? I don't think he was referring to the amount, but was referring to the speed. There is a pretty significant difference between so-dimm and dimm.
Also... GPU wise, we should have better options than a 128bit card that BARELY runs 3d games and gets horrible ratings in cinebench. Obviously they can't put a better one in because of confined area and power requirements... WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON FOR A DESKTOP MAC!!!
It's a free country. Why doesn't someone Photoshop a side by side image of what it should really look like, pointing out the costs and features of each?
And then do the same for the MacBook Pro, which I agree makes a mess on a desk and has no Apple docking station to clean up the clutter.
I love Macs, but I'm all for keeping Apple honest and challenged.
I don't think this is a problem specific to the iMac. Generally it seems people have their external devices on the desk or on some type of office furniture next to the desk that offers easy access. People generally want external burners, portable drives and printers in a place that is easy to get to.
Jobs RDF is not selling more notebooks than desktops as far as external devices its the same situation.
People don't want external devices, they're more expensive and less reliable. They want those things internal is in the size the case. Apple won't give you that option for under $2200.
??? I don't think he was referring to the amount, but was referring to the speed. There is a pretty significant difference between so-dimm and dimm.
Also... GPU wise, we should have better options than a 128bit card that BARELY runs 3d games and gets horrible ratings in cinebench. Obviously they can't put a better one in because of confined area and power requirements... WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON FOR A DESKTOP MAC!!!
I was referring to amount and flexibility. With the iMac I have to carefully what I do with my RAM. I can't add another 1GB then add a 2x1GB set for 4GB later on the iMac. When I upgrade the RAM (and believe me this things needs a RAM upgrade) I really have to decide if 2GB can last me of if I should may the huge fee required for Max RAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
Ben covered the rest of the stuff I was gonna say so I'm going to focus on tearing this image apart. Instead... because it is clearly exaggerated.
First off, the picture on the right is a bunch of lies. There should only be 2 extra cords on the Dell vs the iMac... DVI connection and LCD Power. There are actually more than those 2. They added a card reader that sits on top of the tower (is there a card reader in the iMac??? No.). I don't know about you guys, but when I set my towers up.. I zip-tie all my cords. I make them all neat and pretty . On top of that my hackintosh sits in a desk cubby hole. You can't even see ANY cords unless you crawl underneath the desk and look behind it. Actually i lied, you can see my remote off of my speakers on top of my desk. Even the wires to the satellite speakers on my desk are cleverly hidden. Most people don't have a tower on top of the desk. Therefor the wires are out of the way. Your mileage may vary.
If anything, my MBP actually shows off my cords. 2 usb connections, Power adapter, External DVI to LCD, Ethernet, and firewire. My mbp causes more clutter on my desk than my hackintosh because it is an AIO that sits on my desk and the cords HAVE to go to my desk to get there. It looks like it has 6 tentacles coming off of it.
Very true, but one small nitpick, that thing on top is actually the IR box for the remote not a card reader.
Comments
Such as 20-inch 1,680 x 1050 display, Intel Celeron, Intel Pentium D, or 2.33 Core Duo, Intel GMA or ATI Radeon HD 2400, no firewire 800, no optical audio input, 500GB HDD, and uses Windows.
3 additional USB 2.0 ports including 2 on the side for easy access, a card reader, and a TV tuner. What I would give to have any of those things on my iMac. In fact, I've paying about $200 to get them. Then again, it's made for the crowd who just want to hook up a printer and go. People with higher needs are just stuck with it.
Well Gateway and Dell must see something there to introduce new products.
They also see something in having form factors as well rather than forcing you to buy an all in one whether you want one or not. No, having to but a $2500 super professional workstation is not a REASONABLE alternative.
3 additional USB 2.0 ports including 2 on the side for easy access, a card reader, and a TV tuner. What I would give to have any of those things on my iMac.
So..... you would trade 24-inch 1920 x 1200 display, 2.8 Core Duo, ATI Radeon HD 2600, firewire 800, optical audio, 1TB HDD, and OS X for 3 additional USB 2 ports, a card reader, and a TV tuner?
They also see something in having form factors as well rather than forcing you to buy an all in one whether you want one or not.
Looking at their quarterly profits that looks like a winning strategy. If I were to place a bet my money would say looking at their quarterly profits is the reason why they are all offering an AIO.
The major flaw in Dell and Gateways' plan. Is that Apple educates and cultivates a culture around the iMac. They teach people the convenience of having an AIO. People I know with iMac's understand and appreciate the fact that their computer does not take up much space or is cluttered with lots of wires.
If I were a consumer who has never used an AIO, looking at Dell's website I don't see any particular reason why I would buy the XPS One over a tower. But chances are more likely I'd be looking at laptops than desktops in the first place.
So..... you would trade 24-inch 1920 x 1200 display, 2.8 Core Duo, ATI Radeon HD 2600, firewire 800, optical audio, 1TB HDD, and OS X for 3 additional USB 2 ports, a card reader, and a TV tuner?
Who said anything about trading features? I'm talking about adding features to make a good low to mid end multimedia machine even better. If Dell is smart enough to find places to put features consumes actually use, so can Apple.
As for the 2.8ghz iMac, i find it to be a waste. The lower mid range GPU and lack of RAM hold back the larger display and faster CPU.
Looking at their quarterly profits that looks like a winning strategy. If I were to place a bet my money would say looking at their quarterly profits is the reason why they are all offering an AIO.
The quarterly profits are from iPods and Laptops. They, unlike the iMac, offer exactly what is expected by the user.
I'm talking about adding features to make a good low to mid end multimedia machine even better. If Dell is smart enough to find places to put features consumes actually use, so can Apple.
The XPS One has one more USB port than the iMac. Most everyone I know plugs their digital camera directly into the computer. I only know of people who take photography seriously as those that use card readers. Seeing as the use of computers as entertainment centers is a market that is not on fire. There aren't very many people demanding video I/O ports built into the computer.
As for the 2.8ghz iMac, i find it to be a waste. The lower mid range GPU and lack of RAM hold back the larger display and faster CPU.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The GPU slowing down the CPU? The lack of RAM?
The quarterly profits are from iPods and Laptops. They, unlike the iMac, offer exactly what is expected by the user.
Apple's desktop sales were up this past quarter. Getting out of this thread you will see there is far less dissatisfaction with the iMac than of that in this thread.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The GPU slowing down the CPU? The lack of RAM?
He means holding it back to it's full potential. IE the bottleneck in applications that use GPU and RAM are bottlenecked at the GPU and RAM points instead of the CPU... more so than desktops and workstations.
You also ignore the obvious as it happens right in front of you. Gateway and Dell introducing new AIO clearly shows Apple is doing something right.
You also ignore the obvious as it happens right in front of you. Gateway and Dell introducing new AIO clearly shows Apple is doing something right.
I still disagree. Apple has the ability to force consumers (a small amount) into certain classes of computers. If all Apple made was a iMac, people who needed desktops would buy it. Not because it's an AIO but because it's a desktop and has OS X. The two things they want. PC manufacturers have tried multiple times over the years to release AIOs and have failed each and every time to turn enough of a profit to keep them around.
The only way I will be convinced if that apple is doing something right, is if the AIO from Gateway and Dell outsell the towers. It's not going to happen... if it does you can rub it in all you want Teno
Time will tell if "Apple is doing something right". The only true test is if Apple offered a Desktop mac in a competitive price range to the iMac, and we witnessed which one out sold the other. Which one turned a higher profit. Which one consumers were more satisfied with. Until that day comes there will always be a question of which is better. I personally feel that SJ & Co knows this and are afraid for the AIO's life. Think about it, if they released a mid-tower and it slaughtered the iMac in sales.. they would have no choice but to either kill the iMac or completely revamp it. Which could mean the death of Apple's AIO... that's a long legacy for the company they probably don't want to kill.
.............Gateway and Dell introducing new AIO clearly shows Apple is doing something right.
Gateway and DELL both had a flat panel AIO before Apple. Don't kid your self.
The only way I will be convinced if that apple is doing something right, is if the AIO from Gateway and Dell outsell the towers. It's not going to happen... if it does you can rub it in all you want Teno
An AIO is really all the far majority of the consumer market really needs. The overwhelming majority of people don't need a tower - will never open it or add any parts to it. People are used to buying towers and don't have a full understanding of why an AIO more than meets their needs. Most people don't need nor want a tower and a separate monitor this is why notebooks are outselling desktops.
An AIO somewhat meets the advantages of a notebook and tower. The AIO takes up much less space than a tower, there are far fewer parts, and less wires to run between components. The AIO uses a full size desktop keyboard, a separate mouse, a larger screen.
Dell and Gateway may not sell very many AIO because they are not actively educating their customers on these advantages. Apple does educate its customers on these advantages.
I don't see how Dell or Gateway sales reflect if Apple is making the right moves. Apple's sales reflect that Apple is making the right moves. I do think that Apple's sales have influenced Dell and Gateway to continue making AIO.
Gateway and DELL both had a flat panel AIO before Apple. Don't kid your self.
I know that. And they historically have not sold well. Which is what makes it so interesting that they continue to develop new AIO. Dell and Gateway are doing this because they believe AIO will sell, they are not doing it to be contrary to people in this thread.
An AIO is really all the far majority of the consumer market really needs. The overwhelming majority of people don't need a tower - will never open it or add any parts to it. People are used to buying towers and don't have a full understanding of why an AIO more than meets their needs. Most people don't need nor want a tower and a separate monitor this is why notebooks are outselling desktops.
An AIO somewhat meets the advantages of a notebook and tower. The AIO takes up much less space than a tower, there are far fewer parts, and less wires to run between components. The AIO uses a full size desktop keyboard, a separate mouse, a larger screen.
Dell and Gateway may not sell very many AIO because they are not actively educating their customers on these advantages. Apple does educate its customers on these advantages.
I don't see how Dell or Gateway sales reflect if Apple is making the right moves. Apple's sales reflect that Apple is making the right moves. I do think that Apple's sales have influenced Dell and Gateway to continue making AIO.
I know that. And they historically have not sold well. Which is what makes it so interesting that they continue to develop new AIO. Dell and Gateway are doing this because they believe AIO will sell, they are not doing it to be contrary to people in this thread.
We don't buy iMac because we're educated on their advantages, in fact from owning towers and all in ones before I'm very educated on their disadvantages. I bought it because they left me with no other choice. For novices like my parents the iMac is a great machine. for those with higher needs but not up to say making your own feature length movie, the Machine is very limiting.
That only stays true if you're happy with the slow 8x notebook burner, lack of a backup hard drive no TV tuner, and devices limited to your keyboard, printer, and iPod. About what a teenager would have. In the world other than steve Jobs propaganda, there would be an iMac with an army of extern devices cluttering your desk and power strip and then a nice clean desk with just a monitor with the tower tucked underneath the desk with all its cables out of sight.
In the world other than steve Jobs propaganda, there would be an iMac with an army of extern devices cluttering your desk and power strip and then a nice clean desk with just a monitor with the tower tucked underneath the desk with all its cables out of sight.
I don't think this is a problem specific to the iMac. Generally it seems people have their external devices on the desk or on some type of office furniture next to the desk that offers easy access. People generally want external burners, portable drives and printers in a place that is easy to get to.
Jobs RDF is not selling more notebooks than desktops as far as external devices its the same situation.
Ben covered the rest of the stuff I was gonna say so I'm going to focus on tearing this image apart. Instead... because it is clearly exaggerated.
First off, the picture on the right is a bunch of lies. There should only be 2 extra cords on the Dell vs the iMac... DVI connection and LCD Power. There are actually more than those 2. They added a card reader that sits on top of the tower (is there a card reader in the iMac??? No.). I don't know about you guys, but when I set my towers up.. I zip-tie all my cords. I make them all neat and pretty
If anything, my MBP actually shows off my cords. 2 usb connections, Power adapter, External DVI to LCD, Ethernet, and firewire. My mbp causes more clutter on my desk than my hackintosh because it is an AIO that sits on my desk and the cords HAVE to go to my desk to get there. It looks like it has 6 tentacles coming off of it.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The GPU slowing down the CPU? The lack of RAM?
Because in his world 4GB is too little RAM to do any "real" work and you need an uber GPU to satisfy a "prosumer".
Because in his world 4GB is too little RAM to do any "real" work and you need an uber GPU to satisfy a "prosumer".
??? I don't think he was referring to the amount, but was referring to the speed. There is a pretty significant difference between so-dimm and dimm.
Also... GPU wise, we should have better options than a 128bit card that BARELY runs 3d games and gets horrible ratings in cinebench. Obviously they can't put a better one in because of confined area and power requirements... WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON FOR A DESKTOP MAC!!!
And then do the same for the MacBook Pro, which I agree makes a mess on a desk and has no Apple docking station to clean up the clutter.
I love Macs, but I'm all for keeping Apple honest and challenged.
I don't think this is a problem specific to the iMac. Generally it seems people have their external devices on the desk or on some type of office furniture next to the desk that offers easy access. People generally want external burners, portable drives and printers in a place that is easy to get to.
Jobs RDF is not selling more notebooks than desktops as far as external devices its the same situation.
People don't want external devices, they're more expensive and less reliable. They want those things internal is in the size the case. Apple won't give you that option for under $2200.
??? I don't think he was referring to the amount, but was referring to the speed. There is a pretty significant difference between so-dimm and dimm.
Also... GPU wise, we should have better options than a 128bit card that BARELY runs 3d games and gets horrible ratings in cinebench. Obviously they can't put a better one in because of confined area and power requirements... WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON FOR A DESKTOP MAC!!!
I was referring to amount and flexibility. With the iMac I have to carefully what I do with my RAM. I can't add another 1GB then add a 2x1GB set for 4GB later on the iMac. When I upgrade the RAM (and believe me this things needs a RAM upgrade) I really have to decide if 2GB can last me of if I should may the huge fee required for Max RAM.
Ben covered the rest of the stuff I was gonna say so I'm going to focus on tearing this image apart. Instead... because it is clearly exaggerated.
First off, the picture on the right is a bunch of lies. There should only be 2 extra cords on the Dell vs the iMac... DVI connection and LCD Power. There are actually more than those 2. They added a card reader that sits on top of the tower (is there a card reader in the iMac??? No.). I don't know about you guys, but when I set my towers up.. I zip-tie all my cords. I make them all neat and pretty
If anything, my MBP actually shows off my cords. 2 usb connections, Power adapter, External DVI to LCD, Ethernet, and firewire. My mbp causes more clutter on my desk than my hackintosh because it is an AIO that sits on my desk and the cords HAVE to go to my desk to get there. It looks like it has 6 tentacles coming off of it.
Very true, but one small nitpick, that thing on top is actually the IR box for the remote not a card reader.