apple tv won't make it unless apple sorts out the problems with it. i had mine replaced twice and even the second replacement only managed to show up once in itunes... but never was able to sync. and that was with a copper cable from my mac to the apple tv. finally gave up and through it in the closet.
people are disenchanted with itunes video and movies for 2 reasons. one is the dearth of movies available. 3 times i've gone out to look for a movie i wanted, most recently troy. not there. secondly, not everyone wants to buy the movie, i don't necessarily want to own every movie that i watch. if they do a rental business thru itunes that might work, but only if they get the problems with apple tv sorted out so people can watch the rental on their plasma.
The AppleTV, in my opinion didn't fail. What failed is iTunes video. The reasons are well known to everyone and I don't feel the need to repeat them here.
What I would like to know is:
- Apple mentioned, in a quarterly results conference call, that they are splitting revenues of AppleTV over a year in order to provide "continuosly added new features". Where are these?
- What are the plans, besides YouTube (!!!) with regards of IPTV and the AppleTV? If Apple cannot close deals to sell content, why can't they close a deal to stream it (ads included) on the ATV?
I own an AppleTV. So far I love what it does, but being outside the US (or UK or, new, Canada) I cannot even complain about the video quality since there's NONE of it...
AppleTV was my best option because:
- in Europe there is nothing like TiVo (at least to my knowledge)
- I wanted to listen to music from my living room with the least possible number of cables
- I wanted to watch the pics I have taken on something bigger than a 13" monitor (own a MacBook)
- I wanted to watch the videos I SHOT with my High Def Sony Handycam without having to purchase an HD-DVD or BluRay burner (for my mac, if it even exists) and player. AppleTV allows me to edit everything on my Mac, store it on an external HD and then stream it or store it locally on the ATV for playback.
I miss video content (particularly rental), but only if it is in HD.
AppleTV was meant for early adopters and all of these own HDTVs, of that you can be sure.
Apple, please show us some love. Add Widgets to the ATV, a iTunes store for the AppleTV (why else did you ask, in the latest SW revision, to provide my login and nationality??), and open the friggin USB port (for "diagnostics", do you seriuosly think we buy that?) for: Elgato EyeTV tuner and recorder (reverse stream back to the computer for extended storage) AND/OR external Harddisk drive.
When you are at it, allow us to play DivX. You know better than anyone that Handbrake and others are used a lot. Spare us the hassle. You know we get our video content even now that there is no NBC on iTunes (you also know where we get that from). Please spare us the extra step of reincoding: you don't have any studios to please now...
Edit:
the single best thing Apple could do is create a home server. That would be great. Even Microsoft understood that... People are storing a lot of digital content (partly purchased, partly created). They (WE) are running out of space...
Apple, create a centralized, 2TB, AppleTV home server. You'll sell millions...
I agree, the ATV hardware itself has all the needed features for the masses, its the iTNS that is not read yet.
You don't think true discrete surround sound is a needed feature? On a box that only connects to HDTVs? (and yes, it's an issue with the aTV operating system and not the hardware itself, but that's still a limitation of the box that can't be fixed with any content, iTunes store or otherwise)
If I could do that I'd be much closer to buying one of these. Right now I watch tons of content using my iPod as a tiny portable aTV. I'd love to rip all my dvds to hard drive, but no way to play those back with surround sound.
With HD screens and disk players finally starting to sell, I also think the missing ability to play back 1080 content hurts appeal for many potential buyers as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave
All-in-all the lack of 1080p is only a perceived issue not a real deal-breaker for most people.
Who says the two are mutually exclusive? I definitely agree that it's more of a perceived issue than a real one. I just think people make purchasing decisions based on perceived issues (meaning it IS a deal breaker). They want to know that they're getting the best, even if they can't use all the features yet. Especially when the box is $299, if it were selling for $99 I'm sure people would be much more willing to forgive it for not having the best specs.
Personally, I'm holding off any HD purchases as long as possible, mainly until screens are dirt cheap, the disk format battle is clearly settled, and/or my current TV dies (which could be years from now). But when I finally make that jump, there's no way I'm buying anything but the highest resolution. By that time I doubt anything but 1080p will be available.
I've never bought the whole "merge with mini" thing. One of the biggest things holding back the aTV from selling well is the price, it probably needs to hit $199 or even $149 to make any kind of dent. Switching it to mini hardware would just double the price, and they'd sell even fewer than they are now.
TVs are huge these days so you need hi-res files. Even DVDs aren't really good enough for modern TVs. iTunes Store will need to go back to the cinema reels and remaster.
Also I heard the Apple tv only supports 2 speakers not 6. I don't know if that's true or not but everyone has 6 speakers these days.
The Apple TV is the type of gear that is going to be purchased by those that are tech savvy. People that would buy Apple TV -- for the most part -- are not going to be watching TV on something that is 780p, or at least not by choice. So if you have a TV that is 1080p/i, then why would you hook the Apple TV to it, which only has video in 780p. I also think that's the reason why the video segment of the iTunes store hasn't done well. We're in the world of High Definition, and Apple needs to sell HD content in its store.
I love Apple to death, and I think they are the most innovative brand out there. However, on this issue, I think they are behind the curve. They need to catch up to what consumer taste is right now. People that buy tech are buying 40"+ TVs in 1080p/i, and they are buying blue-ray and HD-DVD.
... but I only started loving it after I modified it.
To me, a tiny, silent, media-center with a cool interface, running Unix and with 270-megabit wireless is simply an awesome bargain.
Being able to browse a shared media server, then wirelessly stream HD Video from a fileshare is, for me, really useful.
But the device, as shipped, is crippled. I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device. The result was a device which only made sense when used with iTunes. And yet there is no direct iTunes interface on the box, and many territories have no iTunes TV or Movies sales.
... but I only started loving it after I modified it.
To me, a tiny, silent, media-center with a cool interface, running Unix and with 270-megabit wireless is simply an awesome bargain.
Being able to browse a shared media server, then wirelessly stream HD Video from a fileshare is, for me, really useful.
But the device, as shipped, is crippled. I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device. The result was a device which only made sense when used with iTunes. And yet there is no direct iTunes interface on the box, and many territories have no iTunes TV or Movies sales.
C.
You just made my day (sort of). At least I now know the AppleTV I own is CAPABLE of doing the stuff I'd like it to do (on the hardware side). Not being a hacker is tough though, since I have to wait for "infinite loop" to wake up and allow me to use the device to it's full potential.
Question: by High Def, do you mean 720p or 1080i/p?
Thanks to your post I know the AppleTV does not "need" a hardware revision to perform. This gives me hope that a software update might fix a couple of things (or three or four or five...).
Relaunch the ATV as the Mac Nano with leopard screen sharing enabled by default so that consumers can do what they want with it and the existing hardware will be insanely popular at the same price point!
All of the terrestrial channels in the UK offer completely FREE content on demand. It's time-limited. In order to do that they had to use Microsoft DRM because nobody else offers time-limited control rights management.
Apple isn't on MY side. They want to sell me content which is available free to Windows users. If they were on my side they'd be offering the content providers a way to provide FREE content to me, with restrictions. I really don't care if the content explodes 30 days after downloading if it's free.
This is an industry-wide issue caused because the accepted Digital Rights Management (DRM) system used to protect online video content, which is required by our content owners, is not compatible with Apple Mac hardware and software. The closed DRM system used by Apple is not currently available for licence by third parties and there is no other Mac-compatible DRM solution which meets the protection requirements of content owners. Unfortunately, we are therefore unable to offer 4oD content to Mac users at this stage."
4oD launched over a year ago, before AppleTV.
4oD also does 'rental' movies at £1.99. Apple charges £1.89 for a single TV show episode. They've even got the balls to try and sell us crap like Ugly Betty at £1.89 an episode when it's shown on TV twice a week for free here and 99p an episode on 4oD for Windows users.
Just because it isn't, or can't be enforced doesn't mean it's right to do.
Conversely, just because something has been decreed as illegal, doesn't automatically make it wrong.
From a moral (rather than legal) standpoint, I don't personally see anything questionable about converting content, that have already I paid for, from DVDs into a more portable format, given that I am not redistributing the resulting file to other people who haven't paid for it like I have.
The fact that the consequences of doing so may be dire (depending on the jurisdiction I live in) might make such action against my rational self-interest (or, if I were doing it, it might be against my rational self-interest for me to to draw attention to that fact). But I certainly wouldn't feel any moral compulsion to make any amends to the content producers for having done it.
Why does AI keep posting this Apple Bashing tripe from a known Apple Bashing hate group?
Let's see, they pulled an arbitrary number out of their ass and now they jump all over Apple because they didn't meet this number?
How freaking simplistic can you be?
Edit: Why don't we revisit Forrester and their past fiascos? Anyone remember the doom and gloom that Itunes was dead? This group has less than Zero credibility!
Agreed. Apple has never broken out the sales figures for the AppleTV. They may have sold a million or they may not have. Forester doesn't really know either way, so they are guessing.
Just to be clear--are you saying that the content owners and their various existing legal agreements are not what dictates what countries Apple can sell TV shows in? Apple is the one deciding what markets a show can sell to?
No, it's not 'existing agreements' as Apple has none with UK content providers. All the content sold here is US based, and twice as expensive on iTunes than on other services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
And are you saying Apple is the problem for not letting the content holders make DRM even WORSE?
Yes, Apple is the problem. No, it's not making DRM worse. It's an alternative. It also gets us FREE content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
As for time-limited, if you mean movie/TV rentals... what service currently does that well? Easily, painlessly, and cross-platform? I can't think of one. Are you sure Apple isn't at work on doing rentals right? I'd love it if they did.
There isn't one because Microsoft won't do it and neither will Apple as they want to sell you content, not rent it. If Apple is working on doing rentals right, they're over a year behind schedule. All the TV stations here have it done already.
I also think that's the reason why the video segment of the iTunes store hasn't done well.
Actually, the video store seems to be doing pretty well, it's the *movie* sales that aren't as good.
I saw a number recently that the iTunes store had over 90% of the video download market, including television. When you look at movies only, the iTunes store drops all the way down to about 40%. But that's still way ahead of the #2 competitor.
Is the video store, especially with movies, lagging behind the music store? Definitely. But is anyone else even close, much less doing better? It sure doesn't look like it.
Part of the problem is the aTV, part of the problem is lack of movie selection. But the biggest thing holding it back just seems to be the fact that the video download market is still in its infancy - *nobody* is selling a ton of movie downloads yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage
I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device.
OR it's very possible that the TV studios offered apple their content only under the condition that they not include DVR or DVD ripping in iTunes or other apple products. People seem to forget that apple only gets content if the studios allow it. If you were in SJ's shoes, would you put in DVR if it meant all the TV and movie content providers yanked their material?
Conversely, just because something has been decreed as illegal, doesn't automatically make it wrong.
From a moral (rather than legal) standpoint, I don't personally see anything questionable about converting content, that have already I paid for, from DVDs into a more portable format, given that I am not redistributing the resulting file to other people who haven't paid for it like I have.
The fact that the consequences of doing so may be dire (depending on the jurisdiction I live in) might make such action against my rational self-interest (or, if I were doing it, it might be against my rational self-interest for me to to draw attention to that fact). But I certainly wouldn't feel any moral compulsion to make any amends to the content producers for having done it.
I agree, but the problem still remains that Apple can't promote that as a means of getting AppleTV content. The way Apple works now, they can't depend on viral marketing to get the sales that they want. I think relying on viral marketing is a part of why the other makers don't have much market share.
I don't know if the Media Center Extenders fall prey to this limitation, but I think the biggest issue for AppleTV really is content in two ways - access to a good variety and quantity, as well as making it convenient to get in an on-demand-ish way. The top-down approach in extending the computer to the living room doesn't really fit very well with how people watch TV, the direction for the future is PVR and on-demand. AppleTV doesn't currently do either. They can at least do something like on-demand requests without having to go back to the computer.
When I go into the Apple store and look at the Apple TV movies, I can't believe how bad they look on those beautiful Sony Bravia TV's. Until they get Hi-Def or even good standard def on ATV, why bother?
I was actually unimpressed with apple tv when it first came out but oddly enough I ended up understanding how it fits my needs. I'm gonna get one in jan, I'd never pay full price though I'll grab one off the refurb store.
Comments
people are disenchanted with itunes video and movies for 2 reasons. one is the dearth of movies available. 3 times i've gone out to look for a movie i wanted, most recently troy. not there. secondly, not everyone wants to buy the movie, i don't necessarily want to own every movie that i watch. if they do a rental business thru itunes that might work, but only if they get the problems with apple tv sorted out so people can watch the rental on their plasma.
The AppleTV, in my opinion didn't fail. What failed is iTunes video. The reasons are well known to everyone and I don't feel the need to repeat them here.
What I would like to know is:
- Apple mentioned, in a quarterly results conference call, that they are splitting revenues of AppleTV over a year in order to provide "continuosly added new features". Where are these?
- What are the plans, besides YouTube (!!!) with regards of IPTV and the AppleTV? If Apple cannot close deals to sell content, why can't they close a deal to stream it (ads included) on the ATV?
I own an AppleTV. So far I love what it does, but being outside the US (or UK or, new, Canada) I cannot even complain about the video quality since there's NONE of it...
AppleTV was my best option because:
- in Europe there is nothing like TiVo (at least to my knowledge)
- I wanted to listen to music from my living room with the least possible number of cables
- I wanted to watch the pics I have taken on something bigger than a 13" monitor (own a MacBook)
- I wanted to watch the videos I SHOT with my High Def Sony Handycam without having to purchase an HD-DVD or BluRay burner (for my mac, if it even exists) and player. AppleTV allows me to edit everything on my Mac, store it on an external HD and then stream it or store it locally on the ATV for playback.
I miss video content (particularly rental), but only if it is in HD.
AppleTV was meant for early adopters and all of these own HDTVs, of that you can be sure.
Apple, please show us some love. Add Widgets to the ATV, a iTunes store for the AppleTV (why else did you ask, in the latest SW revision, to provide my login and nationality??), and open the friggin USB port (for "diagnostics", do you seriuosly think we buy that?) for: Elgato EyeTV tuner and recorder (reverse stream back to the computer for extended storage) AND/OR external Harddisk drive.
When you are at it, allow us to play DivX. You know better than anyone that Handbrake and others are used a lot. Spare us the hassle. You know we get our video content even now that there is no NBC on iTunes (you also know where we get that from). Please spare us the extra step of reincoding: you don't have any studios to please now...
Edit:
the single best thing Apple could do is create a home server. That would be great. Even Microsoft understood that... People are storing a lot of digital content (partly purchased, partly created). They (WE) are running out of space...
Apple, create a centralized, 2TB, AppleTV home server. You'll sell millions...
I agree, the ATV hardware itself has all the needed features for the masses, its the iTNS that is not read yet.
You don't think true discrete surround sound is a needed feature? On a box that only connects to HDTVs? (and yes, it's an issue with the aTV operating system and not the hardware itself, but that's still a limitation of the box that can't be fixed with any content, iTunes store or otherwise)
If I could do that I'd be much closer to buying one of these. Right now I watch tons of content using my iPod as a tiny portable aTV. I'd love to rip all my dvds to hard drive, but no way to play those back with surround sound.
With HD screens and disk players finally starting to sell, I also think the missing ability to play back 1080 content hurts appeal for many potential buyers as well.
All-in-all the lack of 1080p is only a perceived issue not a real deal-breaker for most people.
Who says the two are mutually exclusive? I definitely agree that it's more of a perceived issue than a real one. I just think people make purchasing decisions based on perceived issues (meaning it IS a deal breaker). They want to know that they're getting the best, even if they can't use all the features yet. Especially when the box is $299, if it were selling for $99 I'm sure people would be much more willing to forgive it for not having the best specs.
Personally, I'm holding off any HD purchases as long as possible, mainly until screens are dirt cheap, the disk format battle is clearly settled, and/or my current TV dies (which could be years from now). But when I finally make that jump, there's no way I'm buying anything but the highest resolution. By that time I doubt anything but 1080p will be available.
I've never bought the whole "merge with mini" thing. One of the biggest things holding back the aTV from selling well is the price, it probably needs to hit $199 or even $149 to make any kind of dent. Switching it to mini hardware would just double the price, and they'd sell even fewer than they are now.
Also I heard the Apple tv only supports 2 speakers not 6. I don't know if that's true or not but everyone has 6 speakers these days.
I love Apple to death, and I think they are the most innovative brand out there. However, on this issue, I think they are behind the curve. They need to catch up to what consumer taste is right now. People that buy tech are buying 40"+ TVs in 1080p/i, and they are buying blue-ray and HD-DVD.
... but I only started loving it after I modified it.
To me, a tiny, silent, media-center with a cool interface, running Unix and with 270-megabit wireless is simply an awesome bargain.
Being able to browse a shared media server, then wirelessly stream HD Video from a fileshare is, for me, really useful.
But the device, as shipped, is crippled. I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device. The result was a device which only made sense when used with iTunes. And yet there is no direct iTunes interface on the box, and many territories have no iTunes TV or Movies sales.
C.
I *love* my Apple TV ....
... but I only started loving it after I modified it.
To me, a tiny, silent, media-center with a cool interface, running Unix and with 270-megabit wireless is simply an awesome bargain.
Being able to browse a shared media server, then wirelessly stream HD Video from a fileshare is, for me, really useful.
But the device, as shipped, is crippled. I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device. The result was a device which only made sense when used with iTunes. And yet there is no direct iTunes interface on the box, and many territories have no iTunes TV or Movies sales.
C.
You just made my day (sort of). At least I now know the AppleTV I own is CAPABLE of doing the stuff I'd like it to do (on the hardware side). Not being a hacker is tough though, since I have to wait for "infinite loop" to wake up and allow me to use the device to it's full potential.
Question: by High Def, do you mean 720p or 1080i/p?
Thanks to your post I know the AppleTV does not "need" a hardware revision to perform. This gives me hope that a software update might fix a couple of things (or three or four or five...).
So you WANT exploding content?
Seems like Apple's on my side here.
WHOLEHEARTEDLY YES!!!!!
All of the terrestrial channels in the UK offer completely FREE content on demand. It's time-limited. In order to do that they had to use Microsoft DRM because nobody else offers time-limited control rights management.
Apple isn't on MY side. They want to sell me content which is available free to Windows users. If they were on my side they'd be offering the content providers a way to provide FREE content to me, with restrictions. I really don't care if the content explodes 30 days after downloading if it's free.
eg. Channel 4 On Demand - (4oD) http://www.channel4.com/4od/index.html
From their help page...
"Will I be able to access 4oD on my Mac?
Unfortunately not at the launch of 4oD.
This is an industry-wide issue caused because the accepted Digital Rights Management (DRM) system used to protect online video content, which is required by our content owners, is not compatible with Apple Mac hardware and software. The closed DRM system used by Apple is not currently available for licence by third parties and there is no other Mac-compatible DRM solution which meets the protection requirements of content owners. Unfortunately, we are therefore unable to offer 4oD content to Mac users at this stage."
4oD launched over a year ago, before AppleTV.
4oD also does 'rental' movies at £1.99. Apple charges £1.89 for a single TV show episode. They've even got the balls to try and sell us crap like Ugly Betty at £1.89 an episode when it's shown on TV twice a week for free here and 99p an episode on 4oD for Windows users.
Just because it isn't, or can't be enforced doesn't mean it's right to do.
Conversely, just because something has been decreed as illegal, doesn't automatically make it wrong.
From a moral (rather than legal) standpoint, I don't personally see anything questionable about converting content, that have already I paid for, from DVDs into a more portable format, given that I am not redistributing the resulting file to other people who haven't paid for it like I have.
The fact that the consequences of doing so may be dire (depending on the jurisdiction I live in) might make such action against my rational self-interest (or, if I were doing it, it might be against my rational self-interest for me to to draw attention to that fact). But I certainly wouldn't feel any moral compulsion to make any amends to the content producers for having done it.
Why does AI keep posting this Apple Bashing tripe from a known Apple Bashing hate group?
Let's see, they pulled an arbitrary number out of their ass and now they jump all over Apple because they didn't meet this number?
How freaking simplistic can you be?
Edit: Why don't we revisit Forrester and their past fiascos? Anyone remember the doom and gloom that Itunes was dead? This group has less than Zero credibility!
Agreed. Apple has never broken out the sales figures for the AppleTV. They may have sold a million or they may not have. Forester doesn't really know either way, so they are guessing.
Just to be clear--are you saying that the content owners and their various existing legal agreements are not what dictates what countries Apple can sell TV shows in? Apple is the one deciding what markets a show can sell to?
No, it's not 'existing agreements' as Apple has none with UK content providers. All the content sold here is US based, and twice as expensive on iTunes than on other services.
And are you saying Apple is the problem for not letting the content holders make DRM even WORSE?
Yes, Apple is the problem. No, it's not making DRM worse. It's an alternative. It also gets us FREE content.
As for time-limited, if you mean movie/TV rentals... what service currently does that well? Easily, painlessly, and cross-platform? I can't think of one. Are you sure Apple isn't at work on doing rentals right? I'd love it if they did.
There isn't one because Microsoft won't do it and neither will Apple as they want to sell you content, not rent it. If Apple is working on doing rentals right, they're over a year behind schedule. All the TV stations here have it done already.
I also think that's the reason why the video segment of the iTunes store hasn't done well.
Actually, the video store seems to be doing pretty well, it's the *movie* sales that aren't as good.
I saw a number recently that the iTunes store had over 90% of the video download market, including television. When you look at movies only, the iTunes store drops all the way down to about 40%. But that's still way ahead of the #2 competitor.
Is the video store, especially with movies, lagging behind the music store? Definitely. But is anyone else even close, much less doing better? It sure doesn't look like it.
Part of the problem is the aTV, part of the problem is lack of movie selection. But the biggest thing holding it back just seems to be the fact that the video download market is still in its infancy - *nobody* is selling a ton of movie downloads yet.
I think Apple are so worried by appearing to be the pirate's friend, that they hobbled the device.
OR it's very possible that the TV studios offered apple their content only under the condition that they not include DVR or DVD ripping in iTunes or other apple products. People seem to forget that apple only gets content if the studios allow it. If you were in SJ's shoes, would you put in DVR if it meant all the TV and movie content providers yanked their material?
Conversely, just because something has been decreed as illegal, doesn't automatically make it wrong.
From a moral (rather than legal) standpoint, I don't personally see anything questionable about converting content, that have already I paid for, from DVDs into a more portable format, given that I am not redistributing the resulting file to other people who haven't paid for it like I have.
The fact that the consequences of doing so may be dire (depending on the jurisdiction I live in) might make such action against my rational self-interest (or, if I were doing it, it might be against my rational self-interest for me to to draw attention to that fact). But I certainly wouldn't feel any moral compulsion to make any amends to the content producers for having done it.
I agree, but the problem still remains that Apple can't promote that as a means of getting AppleTV content. The way Apple works now, they can't depend on viral marketing to get the sales that they want. I think relying on viral marketing is a part of why the other makers don't have much market share.
I don't know if the Media Center Extenders fall prey to this limitation, but I think the biggest issue for AppleTV really is content in two ways - access to a good variety and quantity, as well as making it convenient to get in an on-demand-ish way. The top-down approach in extending the computer to the living room doesn't really fit very well with how people watch TV, the direction for the future is PVR and on-demand. AppleTV doesn't currently do either. They can at least do something like on-demand requests without having to go back to the computer.
1st: Software update to add iTunes Store on the unit itself. This way from my couch I could log onto iTunes and download my favorite TV show.
2nd: Widgets, like weather, traffic, stocks, movie times
3rd: Plays more video options
4th: No more syncing, just let me dump what I want on it.