And don't forget, a huge value that iTunes gave to NBC, beyond mere sales: publicity for their shows. Apple heavily promoted everything from prime time NBC to Battlestar Galactica, both by email announcements and on-screen to a zillion music shoppers. And iTunes gives all those iPod users a great way to stay caught up with a series when they miss an episode--or to start watching a series late. Thus iTunes helps build viewers for plain old ad-supported regular broadcasts.
I do like ad-supported streaming as an OPTION--I catch up on shows via ABC.com sometimes. (ABC.com's streaming shows aren't Microsoft-only, happily--and much of it is in high-def and looks great.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Not exactly... NBC is in a world of hurt right now.
"Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said."
"Meanwhile, none of its new series this season have caught on with viewers. Compounding buyers' angst about NBC is the network's plan to schedule more reality shows, including 'Celebrity Apprentice' and 'American Gladiators.'"
"We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations."
Once you connect iPod to your TV, can you then control it with a remote from your couch?
Three words: Apple Universal Dock.
It looks like NBC wants to really push "bundling" on viewers. IOW, they want the "flexibility" to tie your purchase of an episode of "Heroes" with whatever new/lame show they're trying to market this month. Apple wants to stick to a much simpler, a la carte purchase model.
And their fragmented, scattershot approach to selling video content to different markets (Hulu.com for watching on a computer? SanDisk's service for watching on the TV at home?) is going to confuse customers and drive them away.
Sorry NBC: Apple has a much clearer idea of what consumers want than you do.
The exact same thing could be said of SanDisk's offerings, if you substitute the words "$150 iPod Nano" with the words "$150 Sansa View" in the above sentences. And yes, the Sansa View is also compatible with SanDisk's Fanfare download service. (And you could have 8 GB of Flash instead of 4 GB for that same $150.)
Um no... no it can't. The Sansa View cannot play my iTunes videos. Nor can I as a Mac user shop at this new store. All of that is beside the point. The point is that NBC claims that the AppleTV is the only way to watch your iTunes purchases on your TV when there is an older system that's almost identical to what they propose you do instead. On top of that, what I usually do is just connect my MacBook directly to the TV so I can use my remote. There's 3 different ways when NBC claims that Apple requires the AppleTV.
They're not only FOURTH in the network race, making NO MONEY from iTunes, et. al . . . They're giving money back now!
Quote taken from link posted above...
"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.
"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run a tv network!
They're not only FOURTH in the network race, making NO MONEY from iTunes, et. al . . . They're giving money back now!
Quote taken from link posted above...
"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.
"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run something as small as a tv network!
"Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said."
Wouldn't it be rather ironic that NBC might be paying Apple for the advertising they've done on NBC?
Why is everyone here blaming NBC for wanting to make a profit on their shows or whatever? Their objective like any other corporation is to maximize their profits. Don't you get it? Just because they can make more money without being locked into iTunes does not make them the enemy. I think it's quite brilliant that they were able to foresee being locked into a non-negotiable iTunes profit structure before making such a binding comittment like the music industry. They saw how it's worked out for the music industry in that Apple is getting most of the profit via iPods and said -wait a minute. Can you seriously blame them? If you owned a company or corporation wouldn't you go where you can control your sale point and not let where someone else decides it? If you didn't , you'd be fired.
AppleTV via iTune is a f-a-i-l-u-r-e. Instead of asking how many people own sandisks, ask how many people own AppleTV's and why not more.
Please - question Apple's failed policies before bashing everyone and anyone else.
I get so sick of these exclusive deals. If NBC wants to be sucessful then they need to sell content through as many avenues as possible to reach the biggest market.
What I don't like about the Sansa device is that it's another device. The iPod is an MP3 player that can also play stuff on a TV. This sansa device has a single function.
I can't wait to see these value priced bundles
As others have said, Apple would get the blame for any bundling or price hike in iTunes. People love to blame Apple for everything. Apple's name is on the store. I don't think people in general are smart enough to make the distinction. Look at the Star Trek fiasco. NBC wasn't providing the shows and people were screaming at Apple.
Apple knows marketing and NBC should learn a thing or two. Technology savvy people know when they are being sold to. They know what they want before go to a store. Don't try to make them pay more just get extra things they don't want. I'm sure NBC is going to bundle low performing shows with good performing ones. Great.
Walmart dictates a lot of terms to the companies who's products they sell. Walmart is good at what is does and companies are thankful for the shelf space and money Walmart is making for them. Why should Apple be any different. NBC should be very grateful for all of Apple's marketing and bandwidth, and, oh yeah, all the money Apple makes for them.
NBC, get over yourself. The only show I like of yours is "The Office" and you have Apple to thank for that.
Why is everyone here blaming NBC for wanting to make a profit on their shows or whatever? Their objective like any other corporation is to maximize their profits. Don't you get it? Just because they can make more money without being locked into iTunes does not make them the enemy.
I think you'd have to make a case that they're making more money by getting out of iTunes. Most of their money from the internet was from iTunes. And they haven't raised their prices elsewhere, so I don't see how NBC is making more money elsewhere. I certainly don't think it's possible to beat the money they got per person through iTunes using an ad-supported service. Ad-supported network TV amounts to about $0.35 per audience member per episode at most. Internet ads pay a lot less than that.
Quote:
Please - question Apple's failed policies before bashing everyone and anyone else.
I think you'd have to make an actual argument on why Apple's media policies failed. I really don't understand how the dominant distributor in the paid download market is a failure.
I think you'd have to make an actual argument on why Apple's media policies failed. I really don't understand how the dominant distributor in the paid download market is a failure.
What? That's not proof. And it's not media. We don't know how well it sold or didn't sell. Also, it's only tangential to their media market because there are other means of watching iTunes video. Currently, Apple sells four different portable video players and the videos play on computers too. AppleTV can be a "failure" and still not hurt their video sales.
Apple is still the dominant legal internet video distributor, and you're saying their media policies have failed. Last time they said anything, Apple sold 100M+ TV episodes. That's not a failure. I don't understand how you think NBC will succeed with the other options when their audience is much smaller and they're trying to push distribution methods that return less money per person.
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run a tv network!
NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha
NBC is owned by General Electric. It's hardly run by "liberals". Not that you should let reality stand in the way of your rant. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you actually misspell "NBC".
There was alternatives long before AppleTV. Amazon.com has been selling crappy media extenders for some time. The prices range from less to more expensive than AppleTV (or did before AppleTV came along) and they all stream video with a very poor success rate. The only plus for these devices is the built in support for many codecs but that is little comfort when the device doesn't work as advertised. i know, I've owned and been pissed off at many of them.
And it's a safe bet, Apple will either be announcing a new AppleTV in January, or dropping it. Apple doesn't let stuff sit around to long without some changes, and this one is ripe for some up-dates.
Apple is still the dominant legal internet video distributor, and you're saying their media policies have failed. Last time they said anything, Apple sold 100M+ TV episodes. That's not a failure.
AppleTV is a failure. Didn't you read yesterday's headline and thread? It has underperformed greatly- nobody is buying it. Sales have stalled! And one of the reasons is that it's iTunes video content driven- and that video content has diminished since it's inception- plain and simple. That is a fact and a failure. Apple should by now have both more content than it had last May (NBC) as well as higher quality video available. It is not "Near DVD" as Jobs said but more like "Smear VHS" quality if you look at the only upgrade it's ever received -YouTube.
I honestly don't understand how Apple has "destroyed" the music industry. From the sidelines, it seems like before Apple/iPod/iTunes the music industry was in an incredible slide. I remember news reports from around 2000 that music stores were closing up by the droves and CD sales were plummeting. There was talk of Borders and Barnes & Nobles shrinking their music departments. Tower Records evaporated. Then along came Apple and started selling a ton of music.
It seems that Apple provided an awful lot of sales at relatively juicy profits for the record companies. Most tracks Apple sells go for about the same or more than they would if you bought the CD at WalMart, and the costs for the studios are next to nill - they don't have to press CDs, ship product, give profit margin to Ingram or other distributors, negotiate with the WalMart/Target/superstores, worry about retail theft and returns, deal with physical inventory, etc etc etc. The record companies have GOT to be making more money off iTunes than they did off rapidly declining CD sales.
Is the problem unbundling of tracks? I can understand why artists are upset about that, but not the record companies. And that doesn't seem like "destroying" the industry.
Is the problem the fixed 99 cents/track? I can't believe the record companies would really like to make less money off their music, and could they really charge more? That would just push people to buy lower margin physical CDs.
An example: Compare WalMart's price on a physical CD & the iTunes price for "Complete Clapton." At WalMart the 2-disk set is $19.88 for the disks or about 55 cents/track. On iTunes, it's $24.99 for the complete album or 99 cents/track. I really can't believe the record companies are being hurt by Apple on this. Going the WalMart route, I bet they are netting less than 20 cents a track. I'd bet they make at least double that through iTunes. And it's a MUCH simpler business model.
Maybe they're worried I'll just buy the 2 tracks I really like on the CD for $1.10. But that would be the fault of the artists & labels not Apple. And isn't the sale of 2 tracks better than the sale of zero?
The logic and math for all of this is very similar to DVD versions of TV shows.
I'm left thinking the record companies (and NBC) just don't like Apple. But that doesn't seem like the modus operandi of an even half decently managed publicly held company.
If anybody can help me understand the financials behind this, I'd appreciate it.
Comments
Well, it appears the children who run NBC are just doing these "anybody but Apple" deals simply for spite.
Not exactly... NBC is in a world of hurt right now.
http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/art....jsp?id=253962
I do like ad-supported streaming as an OPTION--I catch up on shows via ABC.com sometimes. (ABC.com's streaming shows aren't Microsoft-only, happily--and much of it is in high-def and looks great.)
Not exactly... NBC is in a world of hurt right now.
http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/art....jsp?id=253962
Ouch!
"Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said."
"Meanwhile, none of its new series this season have caught on with viewers. Compounding buyers' angst about NBC is the network's plan to schedule more reality shows, including 'Celebrity Apprentice' and 'American Gladiators.'"
"We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations."
Once you connect iPod to your TV, can you then control it with a remote from your couch?
Three words: Apple Universal Dock.
It looks like NBC wants to really push "bundling" on viewers. IOW, they want the "flexibility" to tie your purchase of an episode of "Heroes" with whatever new/lame show they're trying to market this month. Apple wants to stick to a much simpler, a la carte purchase model.
And their fragmented, scattershot approach to selling video content to different markets (Hulu.com for watching on a computer? SanDisk's service for watching on the TV at home?) is going to confuse customers and drive them away.
Sorry NBC: Apple has a much clearer idea of what consumers want than you do.
The exact same thing could be said of SanDisk's offerings, if you substitute the words "$150 iPod Nano" with the words "$150 Sansa View" in the above sentences. And yes, the Sansa View is also compatible with SanDisk's Fanfare download service. (And you could have 8 GB of Flash instead of 4 GB for that same $150.)
Um no... no it can't. The Sansa View cannot play my iTunes videos. Nor can I as a Mac user shop at this new store. All of that is beside the point. The point is that NBC claims that the AppleTV is the only way to watch your iTunes purchases on your TV when there is an older system that's almost identical to what they propose you do instead. On top of that, what I usually do is just connect my MacBook directly to the TV so I can use my remote. There's 3 different ways when NBC claims that Apple requires the AppleTV.
As proof of NBC's abject stupidity in this arena . . .
http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/2...1/tv_nm/nbc_dc
They're not only FOURTH in the network race, making NO MONEY from iTunes, et. al . . . They're giving money back now!
Quote taken from link posted above...
"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.
"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run a tv network!
NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha
As proof of NBC's abject stupidity in this arena . . .
http://real-us.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/2...1/tv_nm/nbc_dc
They're not only FOURTH in the network race, making NO MONEY from iTunes, et. al . . . They're giving money back now!
Quote taken from link posted above...
"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.
"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run something as small as a tv network!
NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run something as small as a tv network!
In all honesty, I'd rather have a ruined network than a country
Ouch!
"Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said."
Wouldn't it be rather ironic that NBC might be paying Apple for the advertising they've done on NBC?
Anybody else getting pop-under windows when clicking on links on AppleInsider?
All the time using Windows and Firefox with "Block pop-ups" checked.
AppleTV via iTune is a f-a-i-l-u-r-e. Instead of asking how many people own sandisks, ask how many people own AppleTV's and why not more.
Please - question Apple's failed policies before bashing everyone and anyone else.
What I don't like about the Sansa device is that it's another device. The iPod is an MP3 player that can also play stuff on a TV. This sansa device has a single function.
I can't wait to see these value priced bundles
As others have said, Apple would get the blame for any bundling or price hike in iTunes. People love to blame Apple for everything. Apple's name is on the store. I don't think people in general are smart enough to make the distinction. Look at the Star Trek fiasco. NBC wasn't providing the shows and people were screaming at Apple.
Apple knows marketing and NBC should learn a thing or two. Technology savvy people know when they are being sold to. They know what they want before go to a store. Don't try to make them pay more just get extra things they don't want. I'm sure NBC is going to bundle low performing shows with good performing ones. Great.
Walmart dictates a lot of terms to the companies who's products they sell. Walmart is good at what is does and companies are thankful for the shelf space and money Walmart is making for them. Why should Apple be any different. NBC should be very grateful for all of Apple's marketing and bandwidth, and, oh yeah, all the money Apple makes for them.
NBC, get over yourself. The only show I like of yours is "The Office" and you have Apple to thank for that.
Why is everyone here blaming NBC for wanting to make a profit on their shows or whatever? Their objective like any other corporation is to maximize their profits. Don't you get it? Just because they can make more money without being locked into iTunes does not make them the enemy.
I think you'd have to make a case that they're making more money by getting out of iTunes. Most of their money from the internet was from iTunes. And they haven't raised their prices elsewhere, so I don't see how NBC is making more money elsewhere. I certainly don't think it's possible to beat the money they got per person through iTunes using an ad-supported service. Ad-supported network TV amounts to about $0.35 per audience member per episode at most. Internet ads pay a lot less than that.
Please - question Apple's failed policies before bashing everyone and anyone else.
I think you'd have to make an actual argument on why Apple's media policies failed. I really don't understand how the dominant distributor in the paid download market is a failure.
I think you'd have to make an actual argument on why Apple's media policies failed. I really don't understand how the dominant distributor in the paid download market is a failure.
APPLETV-HELLO?
APPLETV-HELLO?
What? That's not proof. And it's not media. We don't know how well it sold or didn't sell. Also, it's only tangential to their media market because there are other means of watching iTunes video. Currently, Apple sells four different portable video players and the videos play on computers too. AppleTV can be a "failure" and still not hurt their video sales.
Apple is still the dominant legal internet video distributor, and you're saying their media policies have failed. Last time they said anything, Apple sold 100M+ TV episodes. That's not a failure. I don't understand how you think NBC will succeed with the other options when their audience is much smaller and they're trying to push distribution methods that return less money per person.
People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run a tv network!
NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha
NBC is owned by General Electric. It's hardly run by "liberals". Not that you should let reality stand in the way of your rant. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you actually misspell "NBC".
There was alternatives long before AppleTV. Amazon.com has been selling crappy media extenders for some time. The prices range from less to more expensive than AppleTV (or did before AppleTV came along) and they all stream video with a very poor success rate. The only plus for these devices is the built in support for many codecs but that is little comfort when the device doesn't work as advertised. i know, I've owned and been pissed off at many of them.
And it's a safe bet, Apple will either be announcing a new AppleTV in January, or dropping it. Apple doesn't let stuff sit around to long without some changes, and this one is ripe for some up-dates.
Skip
Apple is still the dominant legal internet video distributor, and you're saying their media policies have failed. Last time they said anything, Apple sold 100M+ TV episodes. That's not a failure.
AppleTV is a failure. Didn't you read yesterday's headline and thread? It has underperformed greatly- nobody is buying it. Sales have stalled! And one of the reasons is that it's iTunes video content driven- and that video content has diminished since it's inception- plain and simple. That is a fact and a failure. Apple should by now have both more content than it had last May (NBC) as well as higher quality video available. It is not "Near DVD" as Jobs said but more like "Smear VHS" quality if you look at the only upgrade it's ever received -YouTube.
Some success.
It seems that Apple provided an awful lot of sales at relatively juicy profits for the record companies. Most tracks Apple sells go for about the same or more than they would if you bought the CD at WalMart, and the costs for the studios are next to nill - they don't have to press CDs, ship product, give profit margin to Ingram or other distributors, negotiate with the WalMart/Target/superstores, worry about retail theft and returns, deal with physical inventory, etc etc etc. The record companies have GOT to be making more money off iTunes than they did off rapidly declining CD sales.
Is the problem unbundling of tracks? I can understand why artists are upset about that, but not the record companies. And that doesn't seem like "destroying" the industry.
Is the problem the fixed 99 cents/track? I can't believe the record companies would really like to make less money off their music, and could they really charge more? That would just push people to buy lower margin physical CDs.
An example: Compare WalMart's price on a physical CD & the iTunes price for "Complete Clapton." At WalMart the 2-disk set is $19.88 for the disks or about 55 cents/track. On iTunes, it's $24.99 for the complete album or 99 cents/track. I really can't believe the record companies are being hurt by Apple on this. Going the WalMart route, I bet they are netting less than 20 cents a track. I'd bet they make at least double that through iTunes. And it's a MUCH simpler business model.
Maybe they're worried I'll just buy the 2 tracks I really like on the CD for $1.10. But that would be the fault of the artists & labels not Apple. And isn't the sale of 2 tracks better than the sale of zero?
The logic and math for all of this is very similar to DVD versions of TV shows.
I'm left thinking the record companies (and NBC) just don't like Apple. But that doesn't seem like the modus operandi of an even half decently managed publicly held company.
If anybody can help me understand the financials behind this, I'd appreciate it.