Your response convinces me that this is why there should be mandatory drug testing on the Internet. Here is a comparision chart of some ultra notebooks. Open your eyes and see for yourself just how really good the MB Air stacks up. It blows the competition away, and they don't even offer features like a back lit keyboard.
Now what in your mind makes you think that's a good answer? They are two DIFFERENT products geared toward two DIFFERENT markets. I suppose you also compare Corvettes to F150 pick-up trucks with sport wheels
Easy. Because I'd want the MB Air to include Firewire. Other than that I think it's the right direction for ALL laptops to be taking. The days of lugging around a boat anchor are numbered. Deal with it
The research that went into the MB Air WILL eventually trickle down into the other MB models. They didn't go through all of this trouble and expense just for one model. Until then it offers people another OPTION in the entire notebook lineup.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
Also, to mynamehere, you dont have 160GB on the MBA like on the iPod Classic, because that is acheived on the iPod Classic by using two disc platters, hence the thickness between the 2 Classic models.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
It is pretty thick. Plus, I can't say that many people in this audience care about the optical drive. The optical drive in my corporate-issue Dell is currently filled with a second battery. That battery doesn't come out much, either.
The MacBook Air looks like it would slip much more easily into luggage, and for sure it is more ergonomic than are either the Sony or the Toshiba. Plus, it has more CPU, which may or may not be worthwhile: I have no idea, but some apps like iPhoto, Flash, and the viewing of complex PDFs can tax processors in the 1.2GHz range.
Lastly, it looks fucking great. I want one in green.
To answer the original question, the "Rev B" will probably just have an updated processor, cheaper Flash options, and, hopefully, some clever way to get more battery in there.
The way that they will give multiple models will be by BTO. A larger screen size destroys the concept of the MBA, the concept being of a second machine that is easier to carry around while giving you enough power and screen area to get things done.
I think what you will see in 6-9 months is a change in the chip being used to give more battery life and less heat, and a change to OLED screen when they become truly available.
160GB HDD ain't gonna happen because the standard 80GB in the Air is the same as the on in the iPod classic, and the 160GB iPod classic is THICKER because it uses a thicker (2 plater) drive to get the extra capacity.
Therefore the 80GB HDD in the Air is ONLY a stop gap until SSD drops in price so that they can stick a 128GB drive in there and up the "standard" battery life }BOOM{
SSD is the way to go from here on in, and with Apples Flash memory buying power from the iPod business, THEY will get the best deals on SSD.
p.s you may at most see a 100GB HDD when it gets its next refresh
I'm surprised there isn't more talk about the Apple Dock/Display patent application. The drawings clearly show what looks like an Air stuck in the side of a 20" display.
160GB HDD ain't gonna happen because the standard 80GB in the Air is the same as the on in the iPod classic, and the 160GB iPod classic is THICKER because it uses a thicker (2 plater) drive to get the extra capacity.
Therefore the 80GB HDD in the Air is ONLY a stop gap until SSD drops in price so that they can stick a 128GB drive in there and up the "standard" battery life }BOOM{
SSD is the way to go from here on in, and with Apples Flash memory buying power from the iPod business, THEY will get the best deals on SSD.
p.s you may at most see a 100GB HDD when it gets its next refresh
Walter, I think you are absolutely right. SSD is the future for all notebooks and not just the MacBook Air. I don't think anyone realizes how dramatic the improvement on battery life and boot-up times will be with a flash equipped machine. While it is certainly a question of price, it is also a question of technology. Larger capacity drives haven't reached production yet.
I will certainly consider the MBA when it gets more memory. But returning to the thread topic, what I'd like to see in MBA V2 is at least 2 USB ports. That's all.
Plus, it has more CPU, which may or may not be worthwhile: I have no idea, but some apps like iPhoto, Flash, and the viewing of complex PDFs can tax processors in the 1.2GHz range.
If the 1.2GHz processor is a Core 2 Duo, I don't think so.
The CPU Apple is using is faster, but not being an ULV model, I think in this class of computers it is "less" not "more".
So, I realize this may be a bit premature, but I figure with all the back-and-forth I've been seeing throughout the day, why not start thinking about the next version of the MacBook Air.
What do you want to see?
Montevina Penryn upgrade from 1.86 to 2.26 GHz
14.1" 1440x900 resolution screen in the same form factor.
+1 USB port for a total of 2. (I'd prefer USB3 ports but that's 1 year away at least).
HSPA radio with SIM card slot
SDHC card reader
That's about it. No need to want an optical, 2.5+ inch HDD, removable battery, smaller footprint, etc., as that would nullify the concept of it being a "MacBook Air", the world's thinnest laptop. I'd buy if I can convince the spouse to spend the money.
Quote:
What do you think we will see?
$1599 starting price
Montevina Penryn upgrade from 1.86 to 2 GHz
+$500 64-GB SSD upgrade
+$1000 128-GB SSD upgrade
Same screen
Quote:
When do you think we'll see it?
It'll have a press release update after Montevina is in sufficient volume sometime in July.
Frankly I'm wondering if Apple has has some sort of collective mental breakdown with the release of the Air.
Dave
I have to agree but in a different sense. To me I am not Apple, nor CEO Steve or the one with the control of the money but, I wonder why they don't have a duo model with dock, a tablet model, a mini tower just below mac pro, an ultra portable at 8x6 without CD/DVD, and etc... To me it seems like every product has to be controlled and chaperoned by Steve and this is all the stuff he has time for... I would like a ton of different products to choose from Apple.
At least add a FireWire 400 port. I don't care if it has to have a special micro-to-regular size connector like the micro-DVI connector in order to fit into the MBA form factor, and I don't care if its actually a FW800 with backward compatibility to FW400. I just want one FW 400 port (for my Apogee Duet).
I'm not so sure. First of all, it's on the MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac etc., none of which are pro machines. Second, I think it's still an important feature, notably for video editing (which is what I would use it for). Admittedly, it's not a feature I need too often, since most of my video comes on a hard drive from our reporters, but it's still a dealbreaker.
I agree with Amorph. Firewire or IEEE1394 has lost the war and I think Apple will start phasing out FW400/800 in 2009 in favor of USB3. The fact that all of the Macintoshs have it is more about Apple protecting its customers than them going with a better bus. It's true that Firewire performance is generally better, but all of the peripherals are becoming more and more USB based including camcorders, so it is inevitable.
If the 1.2GHz processor is a Core 2 Duo, I don't think so.
The CPU Apple is using is faster, but not being an ULV model, I think in this class of computers it is "less" not "more".
Core 2's aren't great at doing FPU. When running on battery, the 1.8 C2D I have in the corporate-issue Dell is still pretty sluggish with big PDFs. 1.8 is 50% faster than 1.2, so that's definitely something. I don't know how they clock-down when conserving battery, but I assume it's probably at the same multiples.
There's also much speculation, still, about the CPU in the Air. Bottom line: if it works, gets the advertised battery run-time, and isn't too hot, then it's a success. It's ridiculous for you to shoving FUD down our throats about a product that you haven't used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT
I agree with Amorph. Firewire or IEEE1394 has lost the war and I think Apple will start phasing out FW400/800 in 2009 in favor of USB3. The fact that all of the Macintoshs have it is more about Apple protecting its customers than them going with a better bus. It's true that Firewire performance is generally better, but all of the peripherals are becoming more and more USB based including camcorders, so it is inevitable.
Maybe, maybe not. USB fundamentally lacks multipoint-to-multipoint and a good, high-rate solution for isochronous transfer in multi-node systems. There's a reason people are still trying to find ways to work firewire into AV equipment, like set-top boxes, etc.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
Well, it depends on what one wants, and what portable means to the user. The Toshiba Portege R500 doesn't clearly beat the MBA. It's 1" thick and has 1.2 GHz processor. To many people, thickness is more important than than footprint and weight. The 0.25" difference (the R500 is 30% thicker)) in thickness could be the better tradeoff than the 0.6 lb in weight delta (MBA is 25% heavier) because it'll fit better in bags, cases, briefcases, etc. The MBA also has 50% faster processor! 50%!
For this ultraportable, Apple wasn't willing to give up on screen size, keyboard size, CPU power, the thickness profile (0.16 to 0.76 inches) and the 3 lb target. Everything else was compromised for it. In other ultraportables, they have given up on CPU power and thickness (er thinness) to include as much as possible.
Also, everyone and their brother is skeptical about Apple's product claims, yet seem blithely oblivious to other manufacturer's claims. The Portege R500's quoted battery life is 8 hours, but if you read the fine print, the 8 hour battery is for a music playing burn down. Battery life from various Portege reviews have it at around 5 hours for productivity uses (maybe). Well, Apple claims the same, 5 hours for "wireless productivity". That's not a win there. CPU/GPU is a definitive loss. Thickness is a loss.
Which will be the more usable machine? Well, I think it'll be the MBA as one will use the CPU/GPU horsepower everyday, while the optical is every once and a while. Just imagine what Vista or Leopard will be like on a 1.2 GHz C2D. For the DVD movie playing public, the MBA is obviously not for them.
If one wants all the ports and such, moving to the regular MacBook has to be a serious option. It's 1.1" thick! A lot of ultraportables are as thick as than that, and it has a 2+ GHz processor. Considering this end of the spectrum, $800 buys you 2 lbs less weight, but you also losing 0.8 GHz of clock cycles when compared to other ultraportables. It's all about the compromises one wants to make for those 2 lbs.
Quote:
Also, to mynamehere, you dont have 160GB on the MBA like on the iPod Classic, because that is acheived on the iPod Classic by using two disc platters, hence the thickness between the 2 Classic models.
Yup. The single platter 1.8" drives are 5 mm thick while the dual platters are 8 mm thick. Apple will hopefully work hard to have the thicker 1.8" drives for more memory.
I'm surprised there isn't more talk about the Apple Dock/Display patent application. The drawings clearly show what looks like an Air stuck in the side of a 20" display.
We'll talk when there is a port replicator / docking station port. For various reasons (namely Apple isn't in the corporate market), they don't do this.
The Macbook Air will sell a whole lot and make Apple money, there is a reason Apple is Apple and you clowns are just crybabies on the internet, if they listened to half of what y'all are saying they would be broke by now.
Yeah, if they listened to the wrong half, they would.
They might be even better off than they are now, had they listened to some people during the last 15 years.
The Air is not going to sell big time, the target market is too small, the price too steep and the compromise in the connectivity area & battery is too much for many.
The MBA will still serve it's role and that is that Apple, apart from learning a lesson about target markets desires vs Steve's desires, has learned a lot about constructing thinner, yet cool enclosures, about energy efficiency, about LED backlighting, about multitouch gesturing and SSD main storage. Even Remote Disk might be of use for the XServe line.
All these features are going to make it into the other products during the year and that's where the R&D will pay off. The MBA isn't going to do that alone.
Yeah, if they listened to the wrong half, they would.
They might be even better off than they are now, had they listened to some people during the last 15 years.
The Air is not going to sell big time, the target market is too small, the price too steep and the compromise in the connectivity area & battery is too much for many.
The MBA will still serve it's role and that is that Apple, apart from learning a lesson about target markets desires vs Steve's desires, has learned a lot about constructing thinner, yet cool enclosures, about energy efficiency, about LED backlighting, about multitouch gesturing and SSD main storage. Even Remote Disk might be of use for the XServe line.
All these features are going to make it into the other products during the year and that's where the R&D will pay off. The MBA isn't going to do that alone.
Since you're so smart and know so much than the people running this large company, why don't you get up and take Steve's job and make Apple even bigger than they are now since you can obviously do a better job than them.
I didn't say I know better. I said that some people have proposed or predicted things that actually did happen later on.
The only thing I said that turned out to be very true was the fact that the gaming market was going to push the hardware market and that gaming would become a very big industry in a matter of years and that Apple should not miss that train. I wrote that to Apple in a letter around 1996-1997, at the age of 16. Steve is now well past 50 and still hasn't grasped that idea.
Comments
rev b needs to have
ethernet, firewire, small speakers, and the black lining around the screen like the imac.
then i'd be buying it.
MacDock will bring ethernet, firewire, etc. so it looks like Rev B will have to have a dock connector.
Your response convinces me that this is why there should be mandatory drug testing on the Internet. Here is a comparision chart of some ultra notebooks. Open your eyes and see for yourself just how really good the MB Air stacks up. It blows the competition away, and they don't even offer features like a back lit keyboard.
Now what in your mind makes you think that's a good answer?
Easy. Because I'd want the MB Air to include Firewire. Other than that I think it's the right direction for ALL laptops to be taking. The days of lugging around a boat anchor are numbered. Deal with it
The research that went into the MB Air WILL eventually trickle down into the other MB models. They didn't go through all of this trouble and expense just for one model. Until then it offers people another OPTION in the entire notebook lineup.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
Also, to mynamehere, you dont have 160GB on the MBA like on the iPod Classic, because that is acheived on the iPod Classic by using two disc platters, hence the thickness between the 2 Classic models.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
It is pretty thick. Plus, I can't say that many people in this audience care about the optical drive. The optical drive in my corporate-issue Dell is currently filled with a second battery. That battery doesn't come out much, either.
The MacBook Air looks like it would slip much more easily into luggage, and for sure it is more ergonomic than are either the Sony or the Toshiba. Plus, it has more CPU, which may or may not be worthwhile: I have no idea, but some apps like iPhoto, Flash, and the viewing of complex PDFs can tax processors in the 1.2GHz range.
Lastly, it looks fucking great. I want one in green.
To answer the original question, the "Rev B" will probably just have an updated processor, cheaper Flash options, and, hopefully, some clever way to get more battery in there.
Montevina platform
Ditto.
+ 160GB HDD standard
+ less expensive SSD options (64/128GB, $499/999)
Late Q3/early Q4 (available in stores no later than Nov. 27th)
I think what you will see in 6-9 months is a change in the chip being used to give more battery life and less heat, and a change to OLED screen when they become truly available.
Therefore the 80GB HDD in the Air is ONLY a stop gap until SSD drops in price so that they can stick a 128GB drive in there and up the "standard" battery life }BOOM{
SSD is the way to go from here on in, and with Apples Flash memory buying power from the iPod business, THEY will get the best deals on SSD.
p.s you may at most see a 100GB HDD when it gets its next refresh
160GB HDD ain't gonna happen because the standard 80GB in the Air is the same as the on in the iPod classic, and the 160GB iPod classic is THICKER because it uses a thicker (2 plater) drive to get the extra capacity.
Therefore the 80GB HDD in the Air is ONLY a stop gap until SSD drops in price so that they can stick a 128GB drive in there and up the "standard" battery life }BOOM{
SSD is the way to go from here on in, and with Apples Flash memory buying power from the iPod business, THEY will get the best deals on SSD.
p.s you may at most see a 100GB HDD when it gets its next refresh
Walter, I think you are absolutely right. SSD is the future for all notebooks and not just the MacBook Air. I don't think anyone realizes how dramatic the improvement on battery life and boot-up times will be with a flash equipped machine. While it is certainly a question of price, it is also a question of technology. Larger capacity drives haven't reached production yet.
I will certainly consider the MBA when it gets more memory. But returning to the thread topic, what I'd like to see in MBA V2 is at least 2 USB ports. That's all.
Plus, it has more CPU, which may or may not be worthwhile: I have no idea, but some apps like iPhoto, Flash, and the viewing of complex PDFs can tax processors in the 1.2GHz range.
If the 1.2GHz processor is a Core 2 Duo, I don't think so.
The CPU Apple is using is faster, but not being an ULV model, I think in this class of computers it is "less" not "more".
So, I realize this may be a bit premature, but I figure with all the back-and-forth I've been seeing throughout the day, why not start thinking about the next version of the MacBook Air.
What do you want to see?
Montevina Penryn upgrade from 1.86 to 2.26 GHz
14.1" 1440x900 resolution screen in the same form factor.
+1 USB port for a total of 2. (I'd prefer USB3 ports but that's 1 year away at least).
HSPA radio with SIM card slot
SDHC card reader
That's about it. No need to want an optical, 2.5+ inch HDD, removable battery, smaller footprint, etc., as that would nullify the concept of it being a "MacBook Air", the world's thinnest laptop. I'd buy if I can convince the spouse to spend the money.
What do you think we will see?
$1599 starting price
Montevina Penryn upgrade from 1.86 to 2 GHz
+$500 64-GB SSD upgrade
+$1000 128-GB SSD upgrade
Same screen
When do you think we'll see it?
It'll have a press release update after Montevina is in sufficient volume sometime in July.
Frankly I'm wondering if Apple has has some sort of collective mental breakdown with the release of the Air.
Dave
I have to agree but in a different sense. To me I am not Apple, nor CEO Steve or the one with the control of the money but, I wonder why they don't have a duo model with dock, a tablet model, a mini tower just below mac pro, an ultra portable at 8x6 without CD/DVD, and etc... To me it seems like every product has to be controlled and chaperoned by Steve and this is all the stuff he has time for... I would like a ton of different products to choose from Apple.
What do you want to see?
At least add a FireWire 400 port. I don't care if it has to have a special micro-to-regular size connector like the micro-DVI connector in order to fit into the MBA form factor, and I don't care if its actually a FW800 with backward compatibility to FW400. I just want one FW 400 port (for my Apogee Duet).
I'm not so sure. First of all, it's on the MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac etc., none of which are pro machines. Second, I think it's still an important feature, notably for video editing (which is what I would use it for). Admittedly, it's not a feature I need too often, since most of my video comes on a hard drive from our reporters, but it's still a dealbreaker.
I agree with Amorph. Firewire or IEEE1394 has lost the war and I think Apple will start phasing out FW400/800 in 2009 in favor of USB3. The fact that all of the Macintoshs have it is more about Apple protecting its customers than them going with a better bus. It's true that Firewire performance is generally better, but all of the peripherals are becoming more and more USB based including camcorders, so it is inevitable.
If the 1.2GHz processor is a Core 2 Duo, I don't think so.
The CPU Apple is using is faster, but not being an ULV model, I think in this class of computers it is "less" not "more".
Core 2's aren't great at doing FPU. When running on battery, the 1.8 C2D I have in the corporate-issue Dell is still pretty sluggish with big PDFs. 1.8 is 50% faster than 1.2, so that's definitely something. I don't know how they clock-down when conserving battery, but I assume it's probably at the same multiples.
There's also much speculation, still, about the CPU in the Air. Bottom line: if it works, gets the advertised battery run-time, and isn't too hot, then it's a success. It's ridiculous for you to shoving FUD down our throats about a product that you haven't used.
I agree with Amorph. Firewire or IEEE1394 has lost the war and I think Apple will start phasing out FW400/800 in 2009 in favor of USB3. The fact that all of the Macintoshs have it is more about Apple protecting its customers than them going with a better bus. It's true that Firewire performance is generally better, but all of the peripherals are becoming more and more USB based including camcorders, so it is inevitable.
Maybe, maybe not. USB fundamentally lacks multipoint-to-multipoint and a good, high-rate solution for isochronous transfer in multi-node systems. There's a reason people are still trying to find ways to work firewire into AV equipment, like set-top boxes, etc.
I do love the MacBook Air, but I feel that you're agument is flawed. You provide a nice little chart, claiming how the MBA clearly blows the competiotion away, but have you actually looked at it. The Toshiba clearly beats the MBA. It boasta smaller profile, buit in optical drive, a lower weight, AND a better battery life, and for 200 US dollars less.
Well, it depends on what one wants, and what portable means to the user. The Toshiba Portege R500 doesn't clearly beat the MBA. It's 1" thick and has 1.2 GHz processor. To many people, thickness is more important than than footprint and weight. The 0.25" difference (the R500 is 30% thicker)) in thickness could be the better tradeoff than the 0.6 lb in weight delta (MBA is 25% heavier) because it'll fit better in bags, cases, briefcases, etc. The MBA also has 50% faster processor! 50%!
For this ultraportable, Apple wasn't willing to give up on screen size, keyboard size, CPU power, the thickness profile (0.16 to 0.76 inches) and the 3 lb target. Everything else was compromised for it. In other ultraportables, they have given up on CPU power and thickness (er thinness) to include as much as possible.
Also, everyone and their brother is skeptical about Apple's product claims, yet seem blithely oblivious to other manufacturer's claims. The Portege R500's quoted battery life is 8 hours, but if you read the fine print, the 8 hour battery is for a music playing burn down. Battery life from various Portege reviews have it at around 5 hours for productivity uses (maybe). Well, Apple claims the same, 5 hours for "wireless productivity". That's not a win there. CPU/GPU is a definitive loss. Thickness is a loss.
Which will be the more usable machine? Well, I think it'll be the MBA as one will use the CPU/GPU horsepower everyday, while the optical is every once and a while. Just imagine what Vista or Leopard will be like on a 1.2 GHz C2D. For the DVD movie playing public, the MBA is obviously not for them.
If one wants all the ports and such, moving to the regular MacBook has to be a serious option. It's 1.1" thick! A lot of ultraportables are as thick as than that, and it has a 2+ GHz processor. Considering this end of the spectrum, $800 buys you 2 lbs less weight, but you also losing 0.8 GHz of clock cycles when compared to other ultraportables. It's all about the compromises one wants to make for those 2 lbs.
Also, to mynamehere, you dont have 160GB on the MBA like on the iPod Classic, because that is acheived on the iPod Classic by using two disc platters, hence the thickness between the 2 Classic models.
Yup. The single platter 1.8" drives are 5 mm thick while the dual platters are 8 mm thick. Apple will hopefully work hard to have the thicker 1.8" drives for more memory.
I'm surprised there isn't more talk about the Apple Dock/Display patent application. The drawings clearly show what looks like an Air stuck in the side of a 20" display.
We'll talk when there is a port replicator / docking station port. For various reasons (namely Apple isn't in the corporate market), they don't do this.
They might be even better off than they are now, had they listened to some people during the last 15 years.
The Air is not going to sell big time, the target market is too small, the price too steep and the compromise in the connectivity area & battery is too much for many.
The MBA will still serve it's role and that is that Apple, apart from learning a lesson about target markets desires vs Steve's desires, has learned a lot about constructing thinner, yet cool enclosures, about energy efficiency, about LED backlighting, about multitouch gesturing and SSD main storage. Even Remote Disk might be of use for the XServe line.
All these features are going to make it into the other products during the year and that's where the R&D will pay off. The MBA isn't going to do that alone.
Yeah, if they listened to the wrong half, they would.
They might be even better off than they are now, had they listened to some people during the last 15 years.
The Air is not going to sell big time, the target market is too small, the price too steep and the compromise in the connectivity area & battery is too much for many.
The MBA will still serve it's role and that is that Apple, apart from learning a lesson about target markets desires vs Steve's desires, has learned a lot about constructing thinner, yet cool enclosures, about energy efficiency, about LED backlighting, about multitouch gesturing and SSD main storage. Even Remote Disk might be of use for the XServe line.
All these features are going to make it into the other products during the year and that's where the R&D will pay off. The MBA isn't going to do that alone.
Since you're so smart and know so much than the people running this large company, why don't you get up and take Steve's job and make Apple even bigger than they are now since you can obviously do a better job than them.
The only thing I said that turned out to be very true was the fact that the gaming market was going to push the hardware market and that gaming would become a very big industry in a matter of years and that Apple should not miss that train. I wrote that to Apple in a letter around 1996-1997, at the age of 16. Steve is now well past 50 and still hasn't grasped that idea.
That's just one example.