It's about time apple pulled their finger out their asss on stuff like this. What's taking so long? We're using Intel cpus at last and APple are still dicking around on GPUs. Onlookers frustration is palpable. Apple are selling 2 million plus computers a quarter. 8 million a year. It's not beans.
What is it with them and GPUs?
Get Nividia to write the drivers or commission AMD. Or do it better themselves. Or change their approach. Or hire more GL programmers who know what they're doing. Why can't we just stick in any damn GPU.
And then there is the lack of choice for the iMac. Their 'mid range tower' computer.
Lemon Bon Bon.
This is all very frustrating.
It seems as though Apple is afraid that the top 24" iMac will challange the low end Mac Pro if it has a good card.
Maybe that's not their reasoning, but I can't think of any other possible reason.
The older model offered a gpu upgrade, why not the new ones?
I'm willing to bet that if Apple made the top rear of the 24" iMac thicker in the mid of the screen area, so that they could put a graphics card inside, a 7" card, say, so that it wasn't too big, and had it so that it could be opened from the top, something like the memory cover, so that a card could be inserted, it would sell very well.
It's even possible that if it used the same standard as the Mac Pro, except for the card length (7" cards are standard as well as the longer sized, after all), we would have enough Macs accepting graphics cards, that ATI, or someone else, might decide to give us one or two. Even Apple.
Hopefully, if the chips, drivers, and cards can be ready for the ADC in the summer, where there is a chance that we will see a Nehalem Mac Pro as well.
Please ask Apple to enable SLI in it's drivers, and sell an optional SLI bridge with the 8800 GT upgrade kit. Even if your not interested in SLI' it's important that Mac users have the same benefits that PC users have available to them.
If Apple sees that graphics are important to us there is also a chance of better graphics options in more machines than just the Mac Pro in the future.
Just a small thing, onlooker. Please learn and relearn the difference between "your" and "you're". Every post of yours in this thread uses "your" incorrectly. I normally don't pick on this sort of thing but you gotta get it right one out of ten tries.
I'm certainly hoping SOMETHING happens here. I'm tired of Apple offering odd choices only. I understand the high end. I understand their choice for the low end.
But, I've NEVER understood their choices for the middle!
Why an 8800GT? Why not a GTX. There are numerous other choices as well.
Why not offer two mid cards? A medium card, such as the 8800GT, and a true high end card? That's what that double width slot is for. It doesn't just have to fit a Quattro!
All this talk about SLI and Crossfire is nonsense anyway. the estimation is that no more than a perhaps 20,000 people use it. Possibly a lot less.
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
1) Wouldn't "good, better, best" be options? Ford's "You can have any color you want so lng as it's black" would be an example of lack of options.
2) I wasn't aware that the 8800GTX had Sterero 3D too. \
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
There's a big difference in price. There is also the (expensive) memory difference. there is also different programming for the cards.
I know what Apple wants to offer. These posts you read are about what WE want Apple to offer.
I'm certainly hoping SOMETHING happens here. I'm tired of Apple offering odd choices only. I understand the high end. I understand their choice for the low end.
But, I've NEVER understood their choices for the middle!
Why an 8800GT? Why not a GTX. There are numerous other choices as well.
Why not offer two mid cards? A medium card, such as the 8800GT, and a true high end card? That's what that double width slot is for. It doesn't just have to fit a Quattro!
All this talk about SLI and Crossfire is nonsense anyway. the estimation is that no more than a perhaps 20,000 people use it. Possibly a lot less.
8800GT has the best perfomance/consume/price ratio.
With PC GeForce 8800GT retail cards selling for as little as $200, it's obvious that even if Apple starts selling a version for older Mac Pros (and lord knows I want one to play PC games), they'll still gouge us. Obviously there's no logical reason for charging up to $150 more for Apple-released cards except corporate greed. And because only Apple sells them, there's no competitive incentive to lower prices. Just another example of Apple making it difficult to put 3rd-party hardware in the box without paying through the nose.
With PC GeForce 8800GT retail cards selling for as little as $200, it's obvious that even if Apple starts selling a version for older Mac Pros (and lord knows I want one to play PC games), they'll still gouge us. Obviously there's no logical reason for charging up to $150 more for Apple-released cards except corporate greed. And because only Apple sells them, there's no competitive incentive to lower prices. Just another example of Apple making it difficult to put 3rd-party hardware in the box without paying through the nose.
If you guy's can not figure out why some of Apples hardware costs them more to produce than their competitors you really need to start thinking inside the box before trying to think outside if it.
1 company with EFI. 1 company with 6% market share. vs. 20+ companies using bios, and 94% of the cards.
Who is getting a bulk discount here, and who is paying a premium for parts? Wake up!
If you guy's can not figure out why some of Apples hardware costs them more to produce than their competitors you really need to start thinking inside the box before trying to think outside if it.
1 company with EFI. 1 company with 6% market share. vs. 20+ companies using bios, and 94% of the cards.
It's worse than that, given that only one model of Mac can use an upgradeable graphics card.
It's worse than that, given that only one model of Mac can use an upgradeable graphics card.
I new there was more to that analogy, but I was damn near sleeping when I wrote that.
Not only that; it's a BTO part that sees maybe 20% of all Mac Pro's 40% at best, but I think that's high. Talk about paying out the nose. Apple has to have these all manufactured. What do you think it costs to have gainward shut down standard operations just to make a custom card for you? I find it hard to believe that people have the nerve to complain about that at all. We want the cards, and we have to pay a premium. Seems justified to me. Maybe once windows 64 goes EFI, usable EFI cards will become more readily available, and Apple will give their EFI firmware to a few card manufacturers who would be willing to load it into cards for mac users if we ordered from them, as that would not affect their inventory. Until then I'm glad Apple went through the expense to get a top of the line card made for my Mac Pro.
I new there more to that analogy, but I was damn near sleeping when I wrote that.
Not only that; it's a BTO part that sees maybe 20% of all Mac Pro's 40% at best, but I think that's high. Talk about paying out the nose. Apple has to have these all manufactured. What do you think it costs to have gainward shut down standard operations just to make a custom card for you?
I really don't know about computer board production, though I do design very simple circuit boards from time to time. How much of a custom card is it, really? Could it be that they just put on a larger firmware chip? If it's a simple variation of an existing board, I don't see that part being expensive, change a part in the pick&place machine mid-stream for a batch and be done it. The part I see being expensive is developing and maintaining said firmware that's only used on one computer that might not get GPU upgrades. It doesn't help that there's no competition for Mac boards either, so the maker can charge what the market will bear.
I really don't know about computer board production, though I do design very simple circuit boards from time to time. How much of a custom card is it, really? Could it be that they just put on a larger firmware chip? If it's a simple variation of an existing board, I don't see that part being expensive, change a part in the pick&place machine mid-stream for a batch and be done it. The part I see being expensive is developing and maintaining said firmware that's only used on one computer that might not get GPU upgrades. It doesn't help that there's no competition for Mac boards either, so the maker can charge what the market will bear.
We could just call gainward and ask them how much it's going to cost us to have them halt their standard operations to run off a few customized cards? I don't think it's going to be cheap. Regardless, Given the amount purchased, and the trouble it takes to have them made, Apple is paying a lot more than say PNY, or gainward for that matter who makes cards for their own profit as a business.
Comments
It's about time apple pulled their finger out their asss on stuff like this. What's taking so long? We're using Intel cpus at last and APple are still dicking around on GPUs. Onlookers frustration is palpable. Apple are selling 2 million plus computers a quarter. 8 million a year. It's not beans.
What is it with them and GPUs?
Get Nividia to write the drivers or commission AMD. Or do it better themselves. Or change their approach. Or hire more GL programmers who know what they're doing. Why can't we just stick in any damn GPU.
And then there is the lack of choice for the iMac. Their 'mid range tower' computer.
Lemon Bon Bon.
This is all very frustrating.
It seems as though Apple is afraid that the top 24" iMac will challange the low end Mac Pro if it has a good card.
Maybe that's not their reasoning, but I can't think of any other possible reason.
The older model offered a gpu upgrade, why not the new ones?
I'm willing to bet that if Apple made the top rear of the 24" iMac thicker in the mid of the screen area, so that they could put a graphics card inside, a 7" card, say, so that it wasn't too big, and had it so that it could be opened from the top, something like the memory cover, so that a card could be inserted, it would sell very well.
It's even possible that if it used the same standard as the Mac Pro, except for the card length (7" cards are standard as well as the longer sized, after all), we would have enough Macs accepting graphics cards, that ATI, or someone else, might decide to give us one or two. Even Apple.
About bloody time. And will Apple be there?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Hopefully, if the chips, drivers, and cards can be ready for the ADC in the summer, where there is a chance that we will see a Nehalem Mac Pro as well.
I have an older mac pro and want to upgrade my video card so any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Paul
Any news on a timeline of when this update/new upgrade kit will be released?
I have an older mac pro and want to upgrade my video card so any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Paul
There is no upgrade for the older Mac Pro's that is known by anyone at this time. There is speculation that it MAY become available, but that's all.
Please ask Apple to enable SLI in it's drivers, and sell an optional SLI bridge with the 8800 GT upgrade kit. Even if your not interested in SLI' it's important that Mac users have the same benefits that PC users have available to them.
If Apple sees that graphics are important to us there is also a chance of better graphics options in more machines than just the Mac Pro in the future.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Just a small thing, onlooker. Please learn and relearn the difference between "your" and "you're". Every post of yours in this thread uses "your" incorrectly. I normally don't pick on this sort of thing but you gotta get it right one out of ten tries.
Where did you find this information that the 8800 GT are stock, not over or under clocked?
I don't see it on Apple's site.
Standard Nvidia spec. They are not over-clocked.
I'm certainly hoping SOMETHING happens here. I'm tired of Apple offering odd choices only. I understand the high end. I understand their choice for the low end.
But, I've NEVER understood their choices for the middle!
Why an 8800GT? Why not a GTX. There are numerous other choices as well.
Why not offer two mid cards? A medium card, such as the 8800GT, and a true high end card? That's what that double width slot is for. It doesn't just have to fit a Quattro!
All this talk about SLI and Crossfire is nonsense anyway. the estimation is that no more than a perhaps 20,000 people use it. Possibly a lot less.
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
1) Wouldn't "good, better, best" be options? Ford's "You can have any color you want so lng as it's black" would be an example of lack of options.
2) I wasn't aware that the 8800GTX had Sterero 3D too.
Apple doesn't give a crap about offering options. They want their products to fall neatly into the good, better, best bins and that's that.
Also, the 8800GTX and Quadro 5600 are the exact same card. Apart from the amount of memory (768MB vs 1.5GB), their hardware is identical. In fact the GTX would be the faster of the two, as it wouldn't be sacrificing speed for accuracy in rendering (a problem for things like CAD, but not for games). Apple won't offer a "mid-range" card that's faster than their $2000 option.
There's a big difference in price. There is also the (expensive) memory difference. there is also different programming for the cards.
I know what Apple wants to offer. These posts you read are about what WE want Apple to offer.
I'm certainly hoping SOMETHING happens here. I'm tired of Apple offering odd choices only. I understand the high end. I understand their choice for the low end.
But, I've NEVER understood their choices for the middle!
Why an 8800GT? Why not a GTX. There are numerous other choices as well.
Why not offer two mid cards? A medium card, such as the 8800GT, and a true high end card? That's what that double width slot is for. It doesn't just have to fit a Quattro!
All this talk about SLI and Crossfire is nonsense anyway. the estimation is that no more than a perhaps 20,000 people use it. Possibly a lot less.
8800GT has the best perfomance/consume/price ratio.
It is the king of GFX card.
8800GT has the best perfomance/consume/price ratio.
It is the king of GFX card.
If you have not noticed the benchmarks, and articles the majority of the interest is in the GT. It is the users choice.
2) I wasn't aware that the 8800GTX had Sterero 3D too.
If you use stereo 3D, more power to you. Have fun buying a workstation graphics card. Or getting your employer to pay for it, more likely.
If you have not noticed the benchmarks, and articles the majority of the interest is in the GT. It is the users choice.
The 8800GT is a great card, and no one should be complaining about it. It won't be so great if Apple is still selling it eleven months from now.
I understand a fee for the apple / EFI firmware that needs to be written... other than that I don't see the point myself.
With PC GeForce 8800GT retail cards selling for as little as $200, it's obvious that even if Apple starts selling a version for older Mac Pros (and lord knows I want one to play PC games), they'll still gouge us. Obviously there's no logical reason for charging up to $150 more for Apple-released cards except corporate greed. And because only Apple sells them, there's no competitive incentive to lower prices. Just another example of Apple making it difficult to put 3rd-party hardware in the box without paying through the nose.
If you guy's can not figure out why some of Apples hardware costs them more to produce than their competitors you really need to start thinking inside the box before trying to think outside if it.
1 company with EFI. 1 company with 6% market share. vs. 20+ companies using bios, and 94% of the cards.
Who is getting a bulk discount here, and who is paying a premium for parts? Wake up!
If you guy's can not figure out why some of Apples hardware costs them more to produce than their competitors you really need to start thinking inside the box before trying to think outside if it.
1 company with EFI. 1 company with 6% market share. vs. 20+ companies using bios, and 94% of the cards.
It's worse than that, given that only one model of Mac can use an upgradeable graphics card.
It's worse than that, given that only one model of Mac can use an upgradeable graphics card.
I new there was more to that analogy, but I was damn near sleeping when I wrote that.
Not only that; it's a BTO part that sees maybe 20% of all Mac Pro's 40% at best, but I think that's high. Talk about paying out the nose. Apple has to have these all manufactured. What do you think it costs to have gainward shut down standard operations just to make a custom card for you? I find it hard to believe that people have the nerve to complain about that at all. We want the cards, and we have to pay a premium. Seems justified to me. Maybe once windows 64 goes EFI, usable EFI cards will become more readily available, and Apple will give their EFI firmware to a few card manufacturers who would be willing to load it into cards for mac users if we ordered from them, as that would not affect their inventory. Until then I'm glad Apple went through the expense to get a top of the line card made for my Mac Pro.
I new there more to that analogy, but I was damn near sleeping when I wrote that.
Not only that; it's a BTO part that sees maybe 20% of all Mac Pro's 40% at best, but I think that's high. Talk about paying out the nose. Apple has to have these all manufactured. What do you think it costs to have gainward shut down standard operations just to make a custom card for you?
I really don't know about computer board production, though I do design very simple circuit boards from time to time. How much of a custom card is it, really? Could it be that they just put on a larger firmware chip? If it's a simple variation of an existing board, I don't see that part being expensive, change a part in the pick&place machine mid-stream for a batch and be done it. The part I see being expensive is developing and maintaining said firmware that's only used on one computer that might not get GPU upgrades. It doesn't help that there's no competition for Mac boards either, so the maker can charge what the market will bear.
I really don't know about computer board production, though I do design very simple circuit boards from time to time. How much of a custom card is it, really? Could it be that they just put on a larger firmware chip? If it's a simple variation of an existing board, I don't see that part being expensive, change a part in the pick&place machine mid-stream for a batch and be done it. The part I see being expensive is developing and maintaining said firmware that's only used on one computer that might not get GPU upgrades. It doesn't help that there's no competition for Mac boards either, so the maker can charge what the market will bear.
We could just call gainward and ask them how much it's going to cost us to have them halt their standard operations to run off a few customized cards? I don't think it's going to be cheap. Regardless, Given the amount purchased, and the trouble it takes to have them made, Apple is paying a lot more than say PNY, or gainward for that matter who makes cards for their own profit as a business.