As a regular customer of Scotsys in Edinburgh over the past decade, I've had nothing but excellent service from them.
What's your opinion based on?
Well my experience with the same Edinburgh shop in five years has been pretty mixed. If we ignore the pitiful tiny size of the place for a moment, and the fact they never get new kit any time soon: the service itself is nothing stellar. Sure, I like that they leave you alone if you're not visibly puzzled, but I somehow doubt that strategy is the best for everyone.
My brother came to them recently with an out of warranty Power Mac G5 coolant leak, and soon discovered they weren't competitive on repair. He took his custom elsewhere. I was in there looking for a 12" laptop bag for a (new to the Mac) friend's eBay acquisition, and discovered their total selection was smaller than when I bought my bag in the same shop five years ago and the prices start at double.
To have any chance of business as the small Apple specialist you've got to try a lot damned harder than that. They play(ed) it by the book, and without much eagerness or enthusiasm at that. The Edinburgh store you may well like is dead man walking. Glasgow's was reputed to be better, and how many months has it taken for an Apple Store to do it justice?
Now if only there were a place you could take your friends to in town and let them get a feel of the computers, and wasn't a scrawny little dump? I'd like not to have to ride the train the next time I'm winning people over!
To be honest, this was on the cards as soon as Apple announced they were opening a store in Glasgow. Scotsys weren't any worse than any of the other Scottish Resellers, and I think we'll see a good few of these Resellers bailing from the Mac scene before long.
The Glasgow Apple Store offers better pre-sales advice and after-sale care; their prices are more competitive; and most importantly of all, they keep everything in stock - no waiting to the end of the week (or in John Lewis' case the end of the month). The stock situation is absolutely the key here ? every single Apple Reseller complains that they can't get hold of the stock in the quantities that they need. Scotsys say it, John Lewis say it, PC World say it, CMYK say it, TMAS say it... nobody can get the stock. But the official Apple Store always seems to have everything in stock - read in to that what you will.
Yeah, Scotsys can claim that retail wasn't key to their success, but I think everyone concerned knows that they simply had their bollocks nailed to the post by Apple.
lol, there is no invisible hand but there is the word "stupidism"? So when Apple takes over the world with their practices and starts charging 10 thousand dollars for a crappy computer no one will answer back with a computer for 5 grand? When Wal Mart takes over the world of retail and starts charging 400 dollars for a loaf of bread no one is going to answer back with a 200 dollar loaf? Yea your right competition doesn't regulate prices at all.
No, competition does not regulate prices. If it did, we wouldn't have inflation, since efficiency and competition would cause prices to drop. But thank you for putting your objection so well. Now I understand where the error lies better in yours (and others) thinking.
All competition does is change hands of the ownership of the capital, like two dogs fighting over two bones, and too dumb to share. (This is an area that Marx didn't understand at all.) For example, there will still be an Apple store in Glasgow, but it has nothing to do with "regulating prices." As noted, the prices and services between the two companies had already differed, in both directions, on different items. If a new store should return, that will still be the case. Again, there is no data to use to claim that competition is "regulating prices" or that the free market will "work it all out."
Adam Smith and Marx (who drew heavily on Smith) were both wrong. Henry George was closer to the mark, but even he missed some of the obvious things.
FYI, Adam Smith's concept is really just an echo of Voltaire's Pangloss from Candide; "Whatever is, is best." Pangloss saw nothing when his eyes were open, and while everything was as he described, none of it was true. He was, of course, the modern day college professor (left or right doesn't matter.) In ancient times he would have been the sophist.
The problem is much more like Forrest Gump: Stupid is what stupid does. The invisible hand of stupidism (as I call it) it one of the most powerful wrong ideas afloat in the world today. It is the political equivalent of "checks and balances," which Paine correctly called a "farce" in Commonsense. He named the book Commonsense because people didn't have any, and that is still the case today.
Inflation is caused by the devaluation of currency through borrowing (printing money out of thin air with nothing to back it up). Hey at least you tried to sound smart by name dropping. I am glad you declared also that competition does not regulate prices whatsoever. Good to see you enlighten the entire world with that.
It's not scientific but perfectly natural for a company to want to take control of its brand. If it can produce its own hardware, software and then control the distribution of that product, then why not. ABC...123...
I would say it's more to do with philosophy than anything else. Apple (Jobs) just see's this Scottish retailer as another factor which may dilute that philosophy, hence taken control and keeping it in-house. Not unique to Apple i'm afraid.
In the end people ultimately decide what is best for them and not Apple.
Short story: Apple resellers, when they signed on with Apple, were NEVER promised perfect support, or exclusive non-compete agreements, or that Apple would never change their price, plans, strategy, scope, or offerings.
I'm sorry, but nostalgia aside this is just business. It's not "big bad bully" beating up "helpless little girl". When you sign on as an Apple reseller you know what you're getting into: you're going to get support and service from a company KNOWN to have less-than-wonderful service and support for it's resellers. You KNOW that. If you want a company that has a "perfect" reseller relationship then get into some other business. No one forced them to choose to sell Apple products -- they did that on their own. And they did it because there was a profit in it.
But business is not static. Things change. If Apple decides to charge them 10 times what they do now, then so be it. Both parties will live with the results, good or bad. If you don't like it, find a new business. Business is fluid... it changes every day (both good and bad), and as a business owner you have to change with it -- sometimes performing a 180° turn. It's just business. Don't like it? Then stop selling Apple products. Sell something else. Create your own product. Or maybe find a better way to package, market, or bundle services in with the deal.
In short... Apple doesn't promise success, non-compete, perfect service, perfect prices, and a non-changing relationship. No business on this earth does all that. The press just likes to point out situations like this so that they can use our emotions and nostalgia to make it appear like a "big bully" situation. It's not. It just simply is not. It's business and everyone does it in some form or the other. You think Scotsys didn't try to squeeze every last penny from its customers at every possible turn? You bet they did. You think Scotsys was there to support customers who had problems at the drop of a hat? I doubt it.
No one is blameless in this game -- so we need to not let the press control our emotions and nostalgia in situations like this. This is not a "personal" situation, as the press would like us to believe (as that makes for much better news). It's just business.
You are shouting the same old "its business" yada yada.... That does not excuse anyone of personal and corporate responsibility to adhere to ethical and honest practices, period. It's just like the "but it's not illegal" crowd. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it ethical.
abusive husband: "It's your fault. You knew I wasn't the nicest guy in the world before we got married, and now you're complaining that I beat the shit out of you?"
I think most Apple Authorised Resellers are set up by Mac buffs who somehow think that if they sell Macs, they'll be doing an invaluable service to Apple. Most of these buffs are invariably disappointed when Apple (consciously or not) forces them out of business.
Apple makes its own hardware and software. I think it was inevitable that they would eventually master internal sales as well, and any people who thought otherwise were only kidding themselves.
As a regular customer of Scotsys in Edinburgh over the past decade, I've had nothing but excellent service from them.
What's your opinion based on?
My opinion is based on:
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
I would go on, but as there's only 24 hours in the day, we don't have nearly enough time.
Inflation is caused by the devaluation of currency through borrowing (printing money out of thin air with nothing to back it up). Hey at least you tried to sound smart by name dropping. I am glad you declared also that competition does not regulate prices whatsoever. Good to see you enlighten the entire world with that.
Close, but not quite. How does one "back up" money? Gold is just colored dirt. So backing up green paper with colored dirt just leaves open the question, with what will you back up the colored dirt?
Money is just an intellectual agreement. It isn't real. Therefore, the issue is not what money "is" or how much exists, but rather what we do with it.
And again, since you seemed to have missed the point, if competition "regulated" prices, then inflation would not be constant. Your money-supply theory is to lay one fallacy upon another, without addresses the original problem. If the invisible hand of stupidism really worked, then there would be no inflation.
Free market theory is a farce, but your post does point to the heart of the problem. There are two contradictory theories floating around. One has to do with the movement of goods (free markets,) the other has to do with the movement of money (monetary policy.) The two theories are mutually exclusive, primarily because the first theory assumes that everyone is equal, whereas the second theory assumes that everyone is unequal.
Neither theory is right, since both states exist simultaneously. They describe a situation that does not exist.
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
I would go on, but as there's only 24 hours in the day, we don't have nearly enough time.
As a company fails, its standards fall. So it is very possible for two people to have a vastly different experience from the same company. Both are anecdotal evidence. Like a restaurant, the chef may be good at one dish and bad at another. The same is true of individual employees, etc. You cannot make a judgement on only a small sampling of evidence.
And, of course, the one thing that goes wrong always stands out more than the 100 things done right.
In any case, it is unlikely that the Apple Store will even try to give the same level of service as an independent store. The Apple Store is just a pretty warehouse. They will not attempt to solve a ALL of a customers problems, therefore they won't fail at anything.
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
Yeah there's a lot of that going around, especially #2...
As a company fails, its standards fall. So it is very possible for two people to have a vastly different experience from the same company. Both are anecdotal evidence. Like a restaurant, the chef may be good at one dish and bad at another. The same is true of individual employees, etc. You cannot make a judgement on only a small sampling of evidence.
Well the other poster was implying no direct experience and it was refuted.
Quote:
In any case, it is unlikely that the Apple Store will even try to give the same level of service as an independent store. The Apple Store is just a pretty warehouse. They will not attempt to solve a ALL of a customers problems, therefore they won't fail at anything.
I say that the Apple Store provides a higher level of service than an independent store on average. The Apple Store in my area helped my out when it didn't have to.
I wouldn't say it was quite Nordstrom level of service but it is higher than anyone else in the Washington DC area that sells macs. There are bespoke stores that provide much higher level of service than Nordstrom's (or Brooks Brothers) but on average, indie clothiers don't approach the same consistent level of service (as a whole, not as individual stores) as a high quality chain IMHO outside specific and famous areas (like Savile Row).
What do you mean more competitive? Every store I've ever been in that sells Apple equipment has had the same prices as Apple.
The 'official' Apple Store in Glasgow offers a discount – the more you buy, the greater the discount. Thus the level of discount you are entitled to increases over time (if you are loyal).
I've yet to find an Apple Reseller that will offer a discount (including John Lewis). I shudder to think how much business I've put Scotsys', John Lewis' and PC World's way over the years – both personal business and referrals to friends/studios that I've worked in. None of them have ever offered me a single penny off the Apple RRP.
Take for instance my current situation. I'm about to purchase a standard config. Mac Pro. If I go to the Apple Store in Glasgow I can have it today, and get a modest discount. If I go to PC World they will try to sell me the older machine at it's full RRP (before trying to ram an expensive support contract and God knows what else down my throat). If I go to John Lewis they have the new machine, but it's not available immediately and they won't offer any discount. Scotsys are closed today, and even in the off-chance that they did have a machine in stock, there's no way they would give me a penny discount.
Apple are simply providing a better service at a better price – Scotsys are simply the first casualties...
Comments
Good riddance to bad rubbish. All I ever heard was negative things about Scotsys.
As a regular customer of Scotsys in Edinburgh over the past decade, I've had nothing but excellent service from them.
What's your opinion based on?
Hello? Can we get back to stories that COUNT please? Stuff that happens in America and not those little islands in the ocean? Sheesh....
Is this from the country that calls two pages about US interests abroad 'world news'?!
As a regular customer of Scotsys in Edinburgh over the past decade, I've had nothing but excellent service from them.
What's your opinion based on?
Well my experience with the same Edinburgh shop in five years has been pretty mixed. If we ignore the pitiful tiny size of the place for a moment, and the fact they never get new kit any time soon: the service itself is nothing stellar. Sure, I like that they leave you alone if you're not visibly puzzled, but I somehow doubt that strategy is the best for everyone.
My brother came to them recently with an out of warranty Power Mac G5 coolant leak, and soon discovered they weren't competitive on repair. He took his custom elsewhere. I was in there looking for a 12" laptop bag for a (new to the Mac) friend's eBay acquisition, and discovered their total selection was smaller than when I bought my bag in the same shop five years ago and the prices start at double.
To have any chance of business as the small Apple specialist you've got to try a lot damned harder than that. They play(ed) it by the book, and without much eagerness or enthusiasm at that. The Edinburgh store you may well like is dead man walking. Glasgow's was reputed to be better, and how many months has it taken for an Apple Store to do it justice?
Now if only there were a place you could take your friends to in town and let them get a feel of the computers, and wasn't a scrawny little dump? I'd like not to have to ride the train the next time I'm winning people over!
Hello? Can we get back to stories that COUNT please? Stuff that happens in America and not those little islands in the ocean? Sheesh....
Wow. As an American, let me just say that people like echosonic give level-headed, well-mannered, non-idiotic Americans a bad name.
Come on, man. Not cool.
-Clive
The Glasgow Apple Store offers better pre-sales advice and after-sale care; their prices are more competitive; and most importantly of all, they keep everything in stock - no waiting to the end of the week (or in John Lewis' case the end of the month). The stock situation is absolutely the key here ? every single Apple Reseller complains that they can't get hold of the stock in the quantities that they need. Scotsys say it, John Lewis say it, PC World say it, CMYK say it, TMAS say it... nobody can get the stock. But the official Apple Store always seems to have everything in stock - read in to that what you will.
Yeah, Scotsys can claim that retail wasn't key to their success, but I think everyone concerned knows that they simply had their bollocks nailed to the post by Apple.
lol, there is no invisible hand but there is the word "stupidism"? So when Apple takes over the world with their practices and starts charging 10 thousand dollars for a crappy computer no one will answer back with a computer for 5 grand? When Wal Mart takes over the world of retail and starts charging 400 dollars for a loaf of bread no one is going to answer back with a 200 dollar loaf? Yea your right competition doesn't regulate prices at all.
No, competition does not regulate prices. If it did, we wouldn't have inflation, since efficiency and competition would cause prices to drop. But thank you for putting your objection so well. Now I understand where the error lies better in yours (and others) thinking.
All competition does is change hands of the ownership of the capital, like two dogs fighting over two bones, and too dumb to share. (This is an area that Marx didn't understand at all.) For example, there will still be an Apple store in Glasgow, but it has nothing to do with "regulating prices." As noted, the prices and services between the two companies had already differed, in both directions, on different items. If a new store should return, that will still be the case. Again, there is no data to use to claim that competition is "regulating prices" or that the free market will "work it all out."
Adam Smith and Marx (who drew heavily on Smith) were both wrong. Henry George was closer to the mark, but even he missed some of the obvious things.
FYI, Adam Smith's concept is really just an echo of Voltaire's Pangloss from Candide; "Whatever is, is best." Pangloss saw nothing when his eyes were open, and while everything was as he described, none of it was true. He was, of course, the modern day college professor (left or right doesn't matter.) In ancient times he would have been the sophist.
The problem is much more like Forrest Gump: Stupid is what stupid does. The invisible hand of stupidism (as I call it) it one of the most powerful wrong ideas afloat in the world today. It is the political equivalent of "checks and balances," which Paine correctly called a "farce" in Commonsense. He named the book Commonsense because people didn't have any, and that is still the case today.
I would say it's more to do with philosophy than anything else. Apple (Jobs) just see's this Scottish retailer as another factor which may dilute that philosophy, hence taken control and keeping it in-house. Not unique to Apple i'm afraid.
In the end people ultimately decide what is best for them and not Apple.
Short story: Apple resellers, when they signed on with Apple, were NEVER promised perfect support, or exclusive non-compete agreements, or that Apple would never change their price, plans, strategy, scope, or offerings.
I'm sorry, but nostalgia aside this is just business. It's not "big bad bully" beating up "helpless little girl". When you sign on as an Apple reseller you know what you're getting into: you're going to get support and service from a company KNOWN to have less-than-wonderful service and support for it's resellers. You KNOW that. If you want a company that has a "perfect" reseller relationship then get into some other business. No one forced them to choose to sell Apple products -- they did that on their own. And they did it because there was a profit in it.
But business is not static. Things change. If Apple decides to charge them 10 times what they do now, then so be it. Both parties will live with the results, good or bad. If you don't like it, find a new business. Business is fluid... it changes every day (both good and bad), and as a business owner you have to change with it -- sometimes performing a 180° turn. It's just business. Don't like it? Then stop selling Apple products. Sell something else. Create your own product. Or maybe find a better way to package, market, or bundle services in with the deal.
In short... Apple doesn't promise success, non-compete, perfect service, perfect prices, and a non-changing relationship. No business on this earth does all that. The press just likes to point out situations like this so that they can use our emotions and nostalgia to make it appear like a "big bully" situation. It's not. It just simply is not. It's business and everyone does it in some form or the other. You think Scotsys didn't try to squeeze every last penny from its customers at every possible turn? You bet they did. You think Scotsys was there to support customers who had problems at the drop of a hat? I doubt it.
No one is blameless in this game -- so we need to not let the press control our emotions and nostalgia in situations like this. This is not a "personal" situation, as the press would like us to believe (as that makes for much better news). It's just business.
You are shouting the same old "its business" yada yada.... That does not excuse anyone of personal and corporate responsibility to adhere to ethical and honest practices, period. It's just like the "but it's not illegal" crowd. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it ethical.
abusive husband: "It's your fault. You knew I wasn't the nicest guy in the world before we got married, and now you're complaining that I beat the shit out of you?"
bad analogy but you get my point.
Apple makes its own hardware and software. I think it was inevitable that they would eventually master internal sales as well, and any people who thought otherwise were only kidding themselves.
As a regular customer of Scotsys in Edinburgh over the past decade, I've had nothing but excellent service from them.
What's your opinion based on?
My opinion is based on:
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
I would go on, but as there's only 24 hours in the day, we don't have nearly enough time.
Inflation is caused by the devaluation of currency through borrowing (printing money out of thin air with nothing to back it up). Hey at least you tried to sound smart by name dropping. I am glad you declared also that competition does not regulate prices whatsoever. Good to see you enlighten the entire world with that.
Close, but not quite. How does one "back up" money? Gold is just colored dirt. So backing up green paper with colored dirt just leaves open the question, with what will you back up the colored dirt?
Money is just an intellectual agreement. It isn't real. Therefore, the issue is not what money "is" or how much exists, but rather what we do with it.
And again, since you seemed to have missed the point, if competition "regulated" prices, then inflation would not be constant. Your money-supply theory is to lay one fallacy upon another, without addresses the original problem. If the invisible hand of stupidism really worked, then there would be no inflation.
Free market theory is a farce, but your post does point to the heart of the problem. There are two contradictory theories floating around. One has to do with the movement of goods (free markets,) the other has to do with the movement of money (monetary policy.) The two theories are mutually exclusive, primarily because the first theory assumes that everyone is equal, whereas the second theory assumes that everyone is unequal.
Neither theory is right, since both states exist simultaneously. They describe a situation that does not exist.
My opinion is based on:
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
I would go on, but as there's only 24 hours in the day, we don't have nearly enough time.
As a company fails, its standards fall. So it is very possible for two people to have a vastly different experience from the same company. Both are anecdotal evidence. Like a restaurant, the chef may be good at one dish and bad at another. The same is true of individual employees, etc. You cannot make a judgement on only a small sampling of evidence.
And, of course, the one thing that goes wrong always stands out more than the 100 things done right.
In any case, it is unlikely that the Apple Store will even try to give the same level of service as an independent store. The Apple Store is just a pretty warehouse. They will not attempt to solve a ALL of a customers problems, therefore they won't fail at anything.
My opinion is based on:
1) When they told my friend she needed a new iBook when all that was wrong was that the hard drive had failed (we got a second opinion)
2) Various small companies I've done work for have had support contracts with them, and get no support whatsoever (or quick fixes which go horribly wrong)
3) Computers being sent in for repairs and being returned with even more problems.
Yeah there's a lot of that going around, especially #2...
The Glasgow Apple Store offers better pre-sales advice and after-sale care; their prices are more competitive;
What do you mean more competitive? Every store I've ever been in that sells Apple equipment has had the same prices as Apple.
As a company fails, its standards fall. So it is very possible for two people to have a vastly different experience from the same company. Both are anecdotal evidence. Like a restaurant, the chef may be good at one dish and bad at another. The same is true of individual employees, etc. You cannot make a judgement on only a small sampling of evidence.
Well the other poster was implying no direct experience and it was refuted.
In any case, it is unlikely that the Apple Store will even try to give the same level of service as an independent store. The Apple Store is just a pretty warehouse. They will not attempt to solve a ALL of a customers problems, therefore they won't fail at anything.
I say that the Apple Store provides a higher level of service than an independent store on average. The Apple Store in my area helped my out when it didn't have to.
I wouldn't say it was quite Nordstrom level of service but it is higher than anyone else in the Washington DC area that sells macs. There are bespoke stores that provide much higher level of service than Nordstrom's (or Brooks Brothers) but on average, indie clothiers don't approach the same consistent level of service (as a whole, not as individual stores) as a high quality chain IMHO outside specific and famous areas (like Savile Row).
What do you mean more competitive? Every store I've ever been in that sells Apple equipment has had the same prices as Apple.
The 'official' Apple Store in Glasgow offers a discount – the more you buy, the greater the discount. Thus the level of discount you are entitled to increases over time (if you are loyal).
I've yet to find an Apple Reseller that will offer a discount (including John Lewis). I shudder to think how much business I've put Scotsys', John Lewis' and PC World's way over the years – both personal business and referrals to friends/studios that I've worked in. None of them have ever offered me a single penny off the Apple RRP.
Take for instance my current situation. I'm about to purchase a standard config. Mac Pro. If I go to the Apple Store in Glasgow I can have it today, and get a modest discount. If I go to PC World they will try to sell me the older machine at it's full RRP (before trying to ram an expensive support contract and God knows what else down my throat). If I go to John Lewis they have the new machine, but it's not available immediately and they won't offer any discount. Scotsys are closed today, and even in the off-chance that they did have a machine in stock, there's no way they would give me a penny discount.
Apple are simply providing a better service at a better price – Scotsys are simply the first casualties...