At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.
Quote:
Two questions.
Why did ATT cut the price for the iPhone in the first place?
Why would ATT cut the price further if they weren't sharing revenue with Apple?
Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).
If you are referring to me, then you are making a big mistake. I've never said that the iPhone is a failure. I'm simply willing to acknowledge that sales out of the US are not as high as predicted. Is that a problem?
Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.
What works in the US doesn't always work elsewhere. This isn't just Apple's problem, it's the problem of many manufacturers. It's true there as well.
If you are referring to me, then you are making a big mistake. I've never said that the iPhone is a failure. I'm simply willing to acknowledge that sales out of the US are not as high as predicted. Is that a problem?
This was my previous response to bavlondon2 :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto
It was addressed to the topic in general, bavlondon2, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
Perhaps saying it this way will be helpful :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto
It was addressed to the topic in general, melgross, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto
It was addressed to the topic in general, (insert your forum name here), not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :
I appreciate that, but you painted with a broad brush. It was difficult to sort out just how you were looking at the canvas.
At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.
I'm not saying that I do know. My point is that no one knows for sure except Apple and its partners.
For example before MW 08 speculation was iTunes had Fox and possibly Warner Bros. for movie rentals. No one supposedly in the know knew that Apple had signed deals with every major studio.
Quote:
Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).
The carriers have confirmed that they share revenue with Apple. But you still haven't answered how ATT is passing the additional cost on to me.
Quote:
Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.
I would agree with this completely if over all iPhone sales and carrier subscriptions were the same number. Discounting what ATT has sold in the US, over all iPhone sales are over four times as large as the number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed to iPhone plans.
The number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed has less to do with demand for the iPhone and more to do with demand for O2, Orange, and T-Mobile.
Let's see what happens when the 3G iPhone with 16 (or more) GB comes out this year in the United States, along with supported third party software using AT&T's expanded 3G network.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...
The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.
The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...
The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.
The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.
You are 100% spot on. Those "missing" iPhones are in the hands of someone, probably the unlocking crowd and now that a software unlock has been found, the number will more than likely rise once again. AT&T shops in the US are bleeding unlockable phones at the moment. At $399, this is still a bargin. An iPod with phone (this is really what the iPhone is), that can be used on any network now (via unclock software proceedure) is a great bargin at the moment as no one knows how the 16 gigers are going to fair in the hands of hackers.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not.
Ok, since it's not exactly a corporate secret, negotiations in the United States could take another year (or two), and some members here are completely missing the advantages for both Apple and AT&T to having a locked iPhone, I'll mention a specific deal AT&T is working on. It is one among many.
So here it is :
AT&T is working on gaining the rights so across the United States, anyone with AT&T service can call anyone else with AT&T service, days and nights, weekdays and weekends, both local and long distance, for free. It will no longer matter if you have AT&T for your house, business, or cell phone – it will be considered the same and your calls with other AT&T users (house, business, and cell phone) will be free.
Right now, any one of over two million Americans with an iPhone can contact any other American with an iPhone, both local and long distance, and talk for hours, for free. That’s on any day, at any time, regardless of what type of iPhone plan each has. They can even set up a three way conference call and none of them will be charged in minutes – again, for free.
In the future, once AT&T successfully completes the deal, all bets are off and they win the cell war. For those that have an iPhone, which is AT&T, then switch their home or business phone to AT&T, they get the entire package. Until 2012, AT&T is the exclusive carrier for the iPhone. AT&T and Apple then change their marketing, clearly stating that by using the iPhone you have unlimited free access to the internet, your email, and tens of millions of businesses, friends, and family, that have AT&T. Don't want an iPhone? They still win, so long as you choose a cell phone with AT&T service.
That’s whether the person you called (or being called from) has an AT&T cellular or landline service. Consider your own business – do you then stay with Verizon, Sprint, or Vonage, or do you switch to AT&T and gain free access to all calls with tens of millions of those that use AT&T, whether they have an iPhone or not? Also remember, by 2009 there will be over seven million Americans with the iPhone, all of them who will be charged in minutes if they call your business and you don’t use AT&T. Is that hard to understand? Switch to AT&T, problem solved.
Now, simply by adding AT&T recently offering iPhone plans for business customers and Apple improving support for Microsoft's Exchange, the expansion of AT&T’s 3G network, the upcoming new and improved iPhone models, increasing marketing for iTunes Wi-Fi, plus slowly but surely introducing .Mac to iPhone users, and possibly lowering the price of current iPhone models - it should all start to make business sense that AT&T and Apple are setting a formidable foundation for a new platform for services.
AT&T and Apple would be foolish to unlock the iPhone in the United States. They have so much to gain. So do we.
P.S. This is one of the "behind closed doors" reasons that Apple wants to grant exclusive rights to specific carriers in each country, whenever possible. Each carrier, within a year or two from now, can follow AT&T's example and demand rights so those with the iPhone, using their service, can freely exchanges calls with customers that have their landline service.
Just like negotiating music rights with iTunes, with millions of iPhone uses and AT&T serving as the leading example, Steve can aggressively negotiate such deals within each country. Such a deal is worth billions.
Now if AT&T will just stop selling iPhones around the world, they can be the only iPhone cell provide on the planet, hell the universe. Even the galaxy. What a proposition.
Now if AT&T will just stop selling iPhones around the world, they can be the only iPhone cell provide on the planet, hell the universe. Even the galaxy. What a proposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #2, 02-07-2008, 12:11 PM )
...
I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
It's funny that of all people, that you, sapporobaby, a self proclaimed expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, I'm amazed you haven't heard of companies that gain exclusive rights or deals to lock in specific vendors and services for a specific market or location for a specific span of time. Hmm, that's a strange concept to you?
AT&T will focus on the United States, another company might be the exclusive carrier in another country. I thought I made that clear, but obviously sapporobaby, as usual, you didn't understand that. If you, sapporobaby, are too lazy and incompetent to see what lengths I went to explaining "in the United States", then your reading and comprehension skills are less than worthless.
It's funny that of all people, that you, sapporobaby, a self proclaimed expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, I'm amazed you haven't heard of companies that gain exclusive rights or deals to lock in specific vendors and services for a specific market or location for a specific span of time. Hmm, that's a strange concept to you?
AT&T will focus on the United States, another company might be the exclusive carrier in another country. I thought I made that clear, but obviously sapporobaby, as usual, you didn't understand that. If you, sapporobaby, are too lazy and incompetent to see what lengths I went to explaining "in the United States", then your reading and comprehension skills are less than worthless.
Ah, you meant in immature markets where operators play the "lock you in" game. Yes. This is something that I had honestly forgotten about. Maybe you missed it in the other thread you were trolling and groveling in but the iPhone will not sell in high numbers in countries where the subscribers are forced to pick either this or nothing. 9 times out of 10 they will settle on nothing and seek alternatives. Hint: 1.x million iPhones missing. Could these be the missing unlocked phones that people have decided to unlock regardless of what Apple or AT&T says?
Now to you. It must really suck being you. I mean this seriously. You make an erroneous statement a few posts back and do not have the spine to go and correct your mistake. I guess that's your real character speaking.
College costs: 100K
Watching you power flail from post to meaningless post: Priceless
The loneliness, self-loathing. The constant reaffirmation that you are someone. Try as you must, day in and day out you can never become the Steve Jobs that you so long to be. The pathetic life is made more manifest with each post. You have shown yourself to be nothing more than a zombie-yes-man-Apple-apologist. Do you think Steve will invite you to one of his cook outs if you suck up enough? I suggest you look into that life modification that you so desperately need and let your true feelings be known.
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #3, 2-8-8, 01:00 AM)
I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
Ah, you meant in immature markets where operators play the "lock you in" game. Yes. This is something that I had honestly forgotten about.
Oh, I see, sapporobaby, you can forget things yet I have to be the always right pretender to knowing anything? You’re the forum troll that sends me pathetic private messages demanding your credentials as an expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, needs to “school” me on anything, tells others to discover girls, and per your words, is ever so eager to “pull apart any and everything” I post, just waiting for me to “make a mistake” – and you think I have a deep psychological problem?
That’s hilarious! Those are yours words, from your private messages. Aren’t they?
As for that error of mine you keep referring to, let’s check what you said :
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it won’t ride GSM or EDGE, it loses that ability flat out. But you didn’t say that, did you, Mr. 2008 “Know it all that in fact knows nothing”. You were wrong. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #2, 02-07-2008, 12:11 PM )
I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition.
Oh, really, sapporobaby? That’s what you think of us here on the AppleInsider forum? In that other topic weren't you going away, to read some article about a 1.1.3 software hack? Why are you still here? Ok, how’s your investigation for that online magazine going? When can I expect them to publish your article?
I can’t wait to read it and see what you say about me.
P.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
The constant reaffirmation that you are someone.
Of course I'm someone. I'm an American! We're a liberty people.
Oh, I see, sapporobaby, you can forget things yet I have to be the always right pretender to knowing anything? You’re the forum troll that sends me pathetic private messages demanding your credentials as an expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, needs to “school” me on anything, tells others to discover girls, and per your words, is ever so eager to “pull apart any and everything” I post, just waiting for me to “make a mistake” – and you think I have a deep psychological problem?
If I am not mistaken you started with the credential posting. Remember, your doctors, lawyers, writers, losers (your category by default - you made it personal and kept this way and I have no intentions of backing down now), blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada.
That’s hilarious! Those are yours words, from your private messages. Aren’t they?
Quote:
As for that error of mine you keep referring to, let’s check what you said :
No, it won’t ride GSM or EDGE, it loses that ability flat out. But you didn’t say that, did you, Mr. 2008 “Know it all that in fact knows nothing”. You were wrong. Period.
Oh, really, sapporobaby? That’s what you think of us here on the AppleInsider forum? In that other topic weren't you going away, to read some article about a 1.1.3 software hack? Why are you still here? Ok, how’s your investigation for that online magazine going? When can I expect them to publish your article?
Actually no. I think quite highly of most here. I just pity you for the terminally myopic and idiot tendencies you seem to be proud to exhibit every chance you post. I come here because there are some really good posters here that have some good ideas and conversation. The other article you mentioned was read, comprehended and understood. Contrary to you, I can usually understand most things I read at first glance. Please post where I said I was doing and online investigation. The exact quote. No paraphrasing or obfuscating like you normally do. No deflections. Post the exact quote for all to see. Oh and do mention where I said I was publishing something.
Quote:
I can’t wait to read it and see what you say about me.
Let's see who has the last laugh shall we.
P.S.
Quote:
Of course I'm someone. I'm an American! We're a liberty people.
A liberty people? Is that a race or some kind of denomination? Obviously you think that you have an idea where I am from. Once again, you try and fail. It surly has to get old.
Greetings, lundy! You’re my first experience with an AppleInsider mod. How are you?
With all due respect, lundy, as I’m sure you can do at your leisure, feel free to examine all the posts and private messages that both sapporobaby and myself have made, either lately or since starting our membership. It should be obvious that sapporobaby sent me four private messages and I did not respond. It should also be obvious that across numerous topics, to which I can provide links (if need be), he has talked down to various members in many ways, including calling them morons or idiots, and advised them to discover girls, among other things.
As a duly authorized mod of AppleInsider, lundy, I hope you can determine which poster needs to be further watched and possibly banned.
He will probably say that I somehow got you to post here, as clearly noted by his private message in which he stated :
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #4, 2-8-8, 01:13 AM)
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
In closing, lundy, you and I can easily continue this conversation by other means, such as private message or email. I look forward to that.
P.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
Tracking this thread now. The last post being 2 days old, nothing will be done at this point.
Any more personal attacks or posting of PMs will result in a permaban.
For what it's worth, lundy, I didn't read your quote until just now, as it was posted in another topic. Now that I've read it, duly noted.
Here's a link to a related topic that will increase market share of AT&T smartphones (and the iPhone), started today by sammick, named "Starbucks and free AT&T wireless". http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=84228 . JupiterOne and mowenbrown provided links to articles that go into more details.
Two statements from the New York Times's article include :
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times article
Monday's announcement boosts the number of AT&T hotspots in the U.S. to 17,000 -- the most in the nation. . . .
''Here we are with the nation's largest Wi-Fi network,'' Welday said. ''Consumer trends are clearly pointing toward an increased need and desire to access broadband outside the home and office -- what a terrific opportunity.''
AT&T also is giving Starbucks' more than 100,000 U.S. employees free wireless accounts and said it will soon extend the Wi-Fi at Starbucks to its wireless phone customers. The company announced no details or time frame for the expansion.
It will be interesting to see how many millions of songs and movies (let alone rentals) that are purchased through Wi-Fi iTunes and Starbucks this year in the United States, bringing millions of dollars in revenue to Apple, AT&T, and Starbucks.
With the writer's strike tentatively over (awesome, congrats to all involved parties), all that's left is hoping the SAG gets a fair contract too. Within two years, the AT&T deal (I stated previously) should be introduced as well. Apple and AT&T are certainly going full steam ahead. The iPhone is part of their plans, not all of it.
I'm one of those hoping/waiting for an unlocked iPhone. (or at least a TMobile version) I think it would do Apple good here in the States as well. There are many who have experienced AT&T's atrocious customer service and exorbitant rates and cannot be convinced to go back.
RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.
I'm one of those hoping/waiting for an unlocked iPhone. (or at least a TMobile version) I think it would do Apple good here in the States as well. There are many who have experienced AT&T's atrocious customer service and exorbitant rates and cannot be convinced to go back.
RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.
If you want an unlocked iPhone, you can get one in France. It is illegal to have locked phones in France. Other countries have variations on this law. For example here in Finland the iPhone is not allow if it bundled with a contract. Finnish law stipulates that all phones bundled with a contract have to be 3G enabled. One of the Finnish operators was approached by Apple but they turned Apple down due to the lack of 3G in the iPhone, as well as Finnish law.
Comments
Estimates are estimates, doesn't make them true.
At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.
Two questions.
Why did ATT cut the price for the iPhone in the first place?
Why would ATT cut the price further if they weren't sharing revenue with Apple?
Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).
Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.
What works in the US doesn't always work elsewhere. This isn't just Apple's problem, it's the problem of many manufacturers. It's true there as well.
I'm just saying that we have to recognize it.
If you are referring to me, then you are making a big mistake. I've never said that the iPhone is a failure. I'm simply willing to acknowledge that sales out of the US are not as high as predicted. Is that a problem?
This was my previous response to bavlondon2 :
It was addressed to the topic in general, bavlondon2, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
Perhaps saying it this way will be helpful :
It was addressed to the topic in general, melgross, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :
It was addressed to the topic in general, (insert your forum name here), not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
This was my previous response to bavlondon2 :
Perhaps saying it this way will be helpful :
For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :
I appreciate that, but you painted with a broad brush. It was difficult to sort out just how you were looking at the canvas.
I appreciate that, but you painted with a broad brush. It was difficult to sort out just how you were looking at the canvas.
Understood, melgross. With my warped sense of humor, perhaps I should have just used the (insert your forum name here) version from the start.
At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.
I'm not saying that I do know. My point is that no one knows for sure except Apple and its partners.
For example before MW 08 speculation was iTunes had Fox and possibly Warner Bros. for movie rentals. No one supposedly in the know knew that Apple had signed deals with every major studio.
Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).
The carriers have confirmed that they share revenue with Apple. But you still haven't answered how ATT is passing the additional cost on to me.
Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.
I would agree with this completely if over all iPhone sales and carrier subscriptions were the same number. Discounting what ATT has sold in the US, over all iPhone sales are over four times as large as the number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed to iPhone plans.
The number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed has less to do with demand for the iPhone and more to do with demand for O2, Orange, and T-Mobile.
Let's see what happens when the 3G iPhone with 16 (or more) GB comes out this year in the United States, along with supported third party software using AT&T's expanded 3G network.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...
The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.
The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...
The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.
The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.
You are 100% spot on. Those "missing" iPhones are in the hands of someone, probably the unlocking crowd and now that a software unlock has been found, the number will more than likely rise once again. AT&T shops in the US are bleeding unlockable phones at the moment. At $399, this is still a bargin. An iPod with phone (this is really what the iPhone is), that can be used on any network now (via unclock software proceedure) is a great bargin at the moment as no one knows how the 16 gigers are going to fair in the hands of hackers.
If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not.
Ok, since it's not exactly a corporate secret, negotiations in the United States could take another year (or two), and some members here are completely missing the advantages for both Apple and AT&T to having a locked iPhone, I'll mention a specific deal AT&T is working on. It is one among many.
So here it is :
AT&T is working on gaining the rights so across the United States, anyone with AT&T service can call anyone else with AT&T service, days and nights, weekdays and weekends, both local and long distance, for free. It will no longer matter if you have AT&T for your house, business, or cell phone – it will be considered the same and your calls with other AT&T users (house, business, and cell phone) will be free.
Right now, any one of over two million Americans with an iPhone can contact any other American with an iPhone, both local and long distance, and talk for hours, for free. That’s on any day, at any time, regardless of what type of iPhone plan each has. They can even set up a three way conference call and none of them will be charged in minutes – again, for free.
In the future, once AT&T successfully completes the deal, all bets are off and they win the cell war. For those that have an iPhone, which is AT&T, then switch their home or business phone to AT&T, they get the entire package. Until 2012, AT&T is the exclusive carrier for the iPhone. AT&T and Apple then change their marketing, clearly stating that by using the iPhone you have unlimited free access to the internet, your email, and tens of millions of businesses, friends, and family, that have AT&T. Don't want an iPhone? They still win, so long as you choose a cell phone with AT&T service.
That’s whether the person you called (or being called from) has an AT&T cellular or landline service. Consider your own business – do you then stay with Verizon, Sprint, or Vonage, or do you switch to AT&T and gain free access to all calls with tens of millions of those that use AT&T, whether they have an iPhone or not? Also remember, by 2009 there will be over seven million Americans with the iPhone, all of them who will be charged in minutes if they call your business and you don’t use AT&T. Is that hard to understand? Switch to AT&T, problem solved.
Now, simply by adding AT&T recently offering iPhone plans for business customers and Apple improving support for Microsoft's Exchange, the expansion of AT&T’s 3G network, the upcoming new and improved iPhone models, increasing marketing for iTunes Wi-Fi, plus slowly but surely introducing .Mac to iPhone users, and possibly lowering the price of current iPhone models - it should all start to make business sense that AT&T and Apple are setting a formidable foundation for a new platform for services.
AT&T and Apple would be foolish to unlock the iPhone in the United States. They have so much to gain. So do we.
P.S. This is one of the "behind closed doors" reasons that Apple wants to grant exclusive rights to specific carriers in each country, whenever possible. Each carrier, within a year or two from now, can follow AT&T's example and demand rights so those with the iPhone, using their service, can freely exchanges calls with customers that have their landline service.
Just like negotiating music rights with iTunes, with millions of iPhone uses and AT&T serving as the leading example, Steve can aggressively negotiate such deals within each country. Such a deal is worth billions.
Now if AT&T will just stop selling iPhones around the world, they can be the only iPhone cell provide on the planet, hell the universe. Even the galaxy. What a proposition.
...
I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
It's funny that of all people, that you, sapporobaby, a self proclaimed expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, I'm amazed you haven't heard of companies that gain exclusive rights or deals to lock in specific vendors and services for a specific market or location for a specific span of time. Hmm, that's a strange concept to you?
AT&T will focus on the United States, another company might be the exclusive carrier in another country. I thought I made that clear, but obviously sapporobaby, as usual, you didn't understand that. If you, sapporobaby, are too lazy and incompetent to see what lengths I went to explaining "in the United States", then your reading and comprehension skills are less than worthless.
It's funny that of all people, that you, sapporobaby, a self proclaimed expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, I'm amazed you haven't heard of companies that gain exclusive rights or deals to lock in specific vendors and services for a specific market or location for a specific span of time. Hmm, that's a strange concept to you?
AT&T will focus on the United States, another company might be the exclusive carrier in another country. I thought I made that clear, but obviously sapporobaby, as usual, you didn't understand that. If you, sapporobaby, are too lazy and incompetent to see what lengths I went to explaining "in the United States", then your reading and comprehension skills are less than worthless.
Ah, you meant in immature markets where operators play the "lock you in" game. Yes. This is something that I had honestly forgotten about. Maybe you missed it in the other thread you were trolling and groveling in but the iPhone will not sell in high numbers in countries where the subscribers are forced to pick either this or nothing. 9 times out of 10 they will settle on nothing and seek alternatives. Hint: 1.x million iPhones missing. Could these be the missing unlocked phones that people have decided to unlock regardless of what Apple or AT&T says?
Now to you. It must really suck being you. I mean this seriously. You make an erroneous statement a few posts back and do not have the spine to go and correct your mistake. I guess that's your real character speaking.
College costs: 100K
Watching you power flail from post to meaningless post: Priceless
The loneliness, self-loathing. The constant reaffirmation that you are someone. Try as you must, day in and day out you can never become the Steve Jobs that you so long to be. The pathetic life is made more manifest with each post. You have shown yourself to be nothing more than a zombie-yes-man-Apple-apologist. Do you think Steve will invite you to one of his cook outs if you suck up enough? I suggest you look into that life modification that you so desperately need and let your true feelings be known.
I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
Ah, you meant in immature markets where operators play the "lock you in" game. Yes. This is something that I had honestly forgotten about.
Oh, I see, sapporobaby, you can forget things yet I have to be the always right pretender to knowing anything? You’re the forum troll that sends me pathetic private messages demanding your credentials as an expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, needs to “school” me on anything, tells others to discover girls, and per your words, is ever so eager to “pull apart any and everything” I post, just waiting for me to “make a mistake” – and you think I have a deep psychological problem?
That’s hilarious! Those are yours words, from your private messages. Aren’t they?
As for that error of mine you keep referring to, let’s check what you said :
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it won’t ride GSM or EDGE, it loses that ability flat out. But you didn’t say that, did you, Mr. 2008 “Know it all that in fact knows nothing”. You were wrong. Period.
I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition.
Oh, really, sapporobaby? That’s what you think of us here on the AppleInsider forum? In that other topic weren't you going away, to read some article about a 1.1.3 software hack? Why are you still here? Ok, how’s your investigation for that online magazine going? When can I expect them to publish your article?
I can’t wait to read it and see what you say about me.
P.S.
The constant reaffirmation that you are someone.
Of course I'm someone. I'm an American! We're a liberty people.
Oh, I see, sapporobaby, you can forget things yet I have to be the always right pretender to knowing anything? You’re the forum troll that sends me pathetic private messages demanding your credentials as an expert that builds 3G networks worldwide, needs to “school” me on anything, tells others to discover girls, and per your words, is ever so eager to “pull apart any and everything” I post, just waiting for me to “make a mistake” – and you think I have a deep psychological problem?
If I am not mistaken you started with the credential posting. Remember, your doctors, lawyers, writers, losers (your category by default - you made it personal and kept this way and I have no intentions of backing down now), blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada.
That’s hilarious! Those are yours words, from your private messages. Aren’t they?
As for that error of mine you keep referring to, let’s check what you said :
No, it won’t ride GSM or EDGE, it loses that ability flat out. But you didn’t say that, did you, Mr. 2008 “Know it all that in fact knows nothing”. You were wrong. Period.
Your ERROR: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=80. Note the part where you say the iPhone will stop working completely. Your words not mine. Game, set, match.
Oh, really, sapporobaby? That’s what you think of us here on the AppleInsider forum? In that other topic weren't you going away, to read some article about a 1.1.3 software hack? Why are you still here? Ok, how’s your investigation for that online magazine going? When can I expect them to publish your article?
Actually no. I think quite highly of most here. I just pity you for the terminally myopic and idiot tendencies you seem to be proud to exhibit every chance you post. I come here because there are some really good posters here that have some good ideas and conversation. The other article you mentioned was read, comprehended and understood. Contrary to you, I can usually understand most things I read at first glance. Please post where I said I was doing and online investigation. The exact quote. No paraphrasing or obfuscating like you normally do. No deflections. Post the exact quote for all to see. Oh and do mention where I said I was publishing something.
I can’t wait to read it and see what you say about me.
Let's see who has the last laugh shall we.
P.S.
Of course I'm someone. I'm an American! We're a liberty people.
A liberty people? Is that a race or some kind of denomination? Obviously you think that you have an idea where I am from. Once again, you try and fail. It surly has to get old.
Any more name calling will result in a permaban.
With all due respect, lundy, as I’m sure you can do at your leisure, feel free to examine all the posts and private messages that both sapporobaby and myself have made, either lately or since starting our membership. It should be obvious that sapporobaby sent me four private messages and I did not respond. It should also be obvious that across numerous topics, to which I can provide links (if need be), he has talked down to various members in many ways, including calling them morons or idiots, and advised them to discover girls, among other things.
As a duly authorized mod of AppleInsider, lundy, I hope you can determine which poster needs to be further watched and possibly banned.
He will probably say that I somehow got you to post here, as clearly noted by his private message in which he stated :
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
In closing, lundy, you and I can easily continue this conversation by other means, such as private message or email. I look forward to that.
P.S.
Tracking this thread now. The last post being 2 days old, nothing will be done at this point.
Any more personal attacks or posting of PMs will result in a permaban.
For what it's worth, lundy, I didn't read your quote until just now, as it was posted in another topic. Now that I've read it, duly noted.
Two statements from the New York Times's article include :
Monday's announcement boosts the number of AT&T hotspots in the U.S. to 17,000 -- the most in the nation. . . .
''Here we are with the nation's largest Wi-Fi network,'' Welday said. ''Consumer trends are clearly pointing toward an increased need and desire to access broadband outside the home and office -- what a terrific opportunity.''
AT&T also is giving Starbucks' more than 100,000 U.S. employees free wireless accounts and said it will soon extend the Wi-Fi at Starbucks to its wireless phone customers. The company announced no details or time frame for the expansion.
It will be interesting to see how many millions of songs and movies (let alone rentals) that are purchased through Wi-Fi iTunes and Starbucks this year in the United States, bringing millions of dollars in revenue to Apple, AT&T, and Starbucks.
With the writer's strike tentatively over (awesome, congrats to all involved parties), all that's left is hoping the SAG gets a fair contract too. Within two years, the AT&T deal (I stated previously) should be introduced as well. Apple and AT&T are certainly going full steam ahead. The iPhone is part of their plans, not all of it.
RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.
I'm one of those hoping/waiting for an unlocked iPhone. (or at least a TMobile version) I think it would do Apple good here in the States as well. There are many who have experienced AT&T's atrocious customer service and exorbitant rates and cannot be convinced to go back.
RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.
If you want an unlocked iPhone, you can get one in France. It is illegal to have locked phones in France. Other countries have variations on this law. For example here in Finland the iPhone is not allow if it bundled with a contract. Finnish law stipulates that all phones bundled with a contract have to be 3G enabled. One of the Finnish operators was approached by Apple but they turned Apple down due to the lack of 3G in the iPhone, as well as Finnish law.