Now, I realize it's slightly off-topic, but how about an acknowledgment from Apple also of the random/erratic cursor and trackpad behavior on the MacBook Air (and, according to the discussions on Apple Support, on some MBPs too).
I thought that was just my MBA!
Apple should just jump on these small issues and solve them. Then they should publicize how
responsive they are to their loyal user community. For Pete's sake, they don't need to
sweep relatively minor annoyances like this under the rug. They should be shouting about
how small OSX's problems are and how quickly they are addressed, especially compared
to a certain alternative. Aren't the other guy's customers begging them to NOT retire XP in a
I get scrolling issues on my PowerMac G5 Dual Core when using Safari. Have since the last updates. If I have multiple (meaning 3-5) tabs open and running in Safari for a few hours, when I try to scroll down the page using the keyboard arrow keys the scroll is choppy and almost unusable.
If I quit Safari and relaunch it, no problems what so ever.
Another issue I keep having with Safari is that it freezes and then crashes when I'm on the Apple Store on Apple.com. I've sent dozens of crash alerts to Apple for the last 3 weeks about this. I end up using Firefox to browse the Apple Store now. THAT IS SAD!
I've not had that problem with any PMG5, and that doesn't sound like a graphics issue.
I will be picking up my Mac Pro tomorrow though, it would get horizontal speckled lines when I play HD video. If I really stress the video, I can get corruption within 15 minutes of a cold boot.
Love to see your proof that Apple "?remove(s) threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing." That is not hearsay, anecdotal incidences or bloggers smoke, but real certified evidence.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Interesting that nobody has proved it. Just the same guys who repeatedly dis Apple on everything and in some cases, never even owned a Mac.
I hear you. Thank goodness only we the few, the privilege who have owned and continue to own multiple Macs and Apple products, and who have Steve Jobs number on speed dial have the right to speak ill of Apple. How dare someone that has no access to the secret decoder ring or handshakes speak about Apple in a less than flattering light.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Let's be perfectly clear.
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "?threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "?threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Would it be a safe bet that those of us with the secret passwords, and handshakes who actually spend a far amount of time in the Apple Discussions Forum have a pretty good grasp on what goes on there rather than speculating about what is and what is not?
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "…threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
The part I had a problem with is the "...real certified evidence". If I had evidence, it certainly wouldn't be certified. You'd have to take it on faith that I didn't fabricate or alter it, though I think that would take more time than it's worth.
But I do believe you are right to ask for proof. And I think a valid rules violation was a component to it. But either contention can't be proven as a deleted thread is that way without record of what the thread was, or why it was deleted.
Interesting that nobody has proved it. Just the same guys who repeatedly dis Apple on everything and in some cases, never even owned a Mac.
your comment is not helping anyone.. anyways
from my experience with everything Apple, never buy innovation product from them, not least dont be the first one. I had problem with the MBP, MB, iPhone... the only one not having any problems is the old iPod. the second generation. Somehow i think they did not test their product properly. And their quality control is very poor. No wonder Apple is known for their best service.. Its because a lot of people need it.
I had Sony Vaio for 3 years and it never had any problem that require fixing or sending it to Sony. NEVER. although i'll admit that their service is no where near Apple's...
FYI, if you want to buy the innovation product from Apple, please buy the Apple Care. its worth it. especially for the new macs. the only ones that do not need apple care and are great are The powerbook G4s. it last for a long time.
Do you have Flip4Mac installed to watch WMV files? I don't know if the fault lies with Flip4Mac or Safari, but for some reason in Safari 3 (at least on a G4 PowerBook), after I've visited a page that causes the Flip4Mac plug-in to load, I found that Safari performance and responsiveness would slowly degrade to the point of unusability. Even if you close all your Safari windows, the plug-in apparently never unloads and keeps eating up more and more memory and processor. Quiting Safari was the only fix until I disabled the Flip4Mac Safari plugin altogether. Since I've done that the issue never happened again.
Have a bunch of pages open with lots of Flash adds can also degrade performance sigificantly, but I wouldn't think that would impact your G5 as much as it did my G4.
Good idea. I've tried installing the previous two versions of Flip4Mac and always had issues with WMVs ever since the Safari 3.1 upgrade.
I'll try just getting rid of it completely. Wonder how the old MS WMV Player works in the latest Safari? Guess we'll see tonight!
Goodness! I just placed my order and I'm getting cold feet now reading about this, coverflow and quicklook problems on the Apple discussion boards.
If it makes you feel any better, I've had my new MBP for about a month now. I haven't used QuickLook very often, but I've used Coverflow extensively while sorting and organizing folder of hundreds of photos. I've not had any issues with it. As far as these other display issues, I've used FrontRow a bit to play DVDs and video Podcasts. I haven't played very many QuickTime movies if that's where the problem is. But I haven't seen any of these other display issues (although I have seen some similar issues in Safari on an old PowerBook, which leads me to believe some of the problems are Safari/WebKit related).
I'm not saying there aren't some real issues out there. Just saying that it's not a pervasive as these boards may make it sound. You only hear from the people who are experiencing the problem, not the from the people with no problems. And from the people who do have problems, "the sky is falling!"
If it was just the MacBooks, I would blame Intel's integrated graphics, but with the MacBook Pro also exhibiting this behaviour I guess that there's an SSE4 optimised memcpy routine in Mac OS X that is causing the issue on Penryn based systems (which introduced SSE4). When you scroll a window, you copy the existing contents to the new location (memcpy, or in this instance a graphically oriented memcpy / software blitter) and draw in the new content. It's not done on the graphics card because of Mac OS X's OpenGL compositing engine. Wonder if enabling/disabling Quartz 2D Extreme (or whatever it is called now) in Leopard resolves the issue?
It should be fixed soon enough, but to be honest 2 months since the first report is rather appalling.
OpenGL's compositor for OS X is rendered on the GPU.
From Apple:
OpenGL Improvements
OpenGL is the industry-standard API for developing portable, interactive 2D and 3D applications. Mac OS X has supported OpenGL from the outset and in Leopard it adds pixel buffer objects, color managed texture images in the sRGB color space, and improvements in the shader programming API.
Leopard also provides a dramatic increase in OpenGL performance by offloading CPU-based processing onto another thread which can then run on a separate CPU core feeding the GPU. This can increase, or in some cases, approach double the performance of OpenGL-based applications.
---------------
The problem of the memcpy is between SSE4 and the GPU could be [speculating here] that Apple has moved from SSE3 code to SSE4 code and the device driver has issues dealing with some of it's matrix compilations. Flaws most certainly would include artifacts on screen with Quicktime and streaming.
Reference below from nVidia's CUDA reveals this link:
It certainly isn't just the new models. The Leopard Graphics Update has caused a large number of problems for !2" Powerbook users. Many discussions on Apple's support website mention that attempts to launch Apple's DVD player cause the machine to freeze entirely with the only option being a forced restart. We have posted feedback to Apple but no one has received a response.
I only hope that a solution is also provided in the next Leopard update...
Good idea. I've tried installing the previous two versions of Flip4Mac and always had issues with WMVs ever since the Safari 3.1 upgrade.
I'll try just getting rid of it completely. Wonder how the old MS WMV Player works in the latest Safari? Guess we'll see tonight!
Thanks for the thoughts.
Yeah, I tried installing previous versions of F4M, too; but it didn't help. It appears to only affect the Safari plug-in; so if I really want to watch a WMV badly enough, I'll just download it and play it in QuickTime Player, which doesn't develop the same symptoms as Safari would. If I remember correclty (not at my Mac right now, ), in the F4M system preference, there is an option to not load movies in Safari, but to download them and play them in QuickTime Player instead.
Apple is in deep kempchi (spelling) with various products atm. ATV is having connectivity issues, the MBA has several problems as well, and now this. I am sure Apple can and will fix many of these issues but it has to be an embarrassment.
Another issue I keep having with Safari is that it freezes and then crashes when I'm on the Apple Store on Apple.com. I've sent dozens of crash alerts to Apple for the last 3 weeks about this. I end up using Firefox to browse the Apple Store now. THAT IS SAD!
I have this same problem only in my case Safari just hangs for a while and gives me the beach ball. If I wait a while it usually unhangs and I can go back to what I am doing.
I also had an issue while playing warcraft III the other day. I was having a lot of graphical glitches. It was still somewhat playable but it was very annoying and had never done it before.
I am not using one of the new MacBooks I have a Late 2006 model
Comments
Now, I realize it's slightly off-topic, but how about an acknowledgment from Apple also of the random/erratic cursor and trackpad behavior on the MacBook Air (and, according to the discussions on Apple Support, on some MBPs too).
I thought that was just my MBA!
Apple should just jump on these small issues and solve them. Then they should publicize how
responsive they are to their loyal user community. For Pete's sake, they don't need to
sweep relatively minor annoyances like this under the rug. They should be shouting about
how small OSX's problems are and how quickly they are addressed, especially compared
to a certain alternative. Aren't the other guy's customers begging them to NOT retire XP in a
couple of months, because they can't stand Vista?
I get scrolling issues on my PowerMac G5 Dual Core when using Safari. Have since the last updates. If I have multiple (meaning 3-5) tabs open and running in Safari for a few hours, when I try to scroll down the page using the keyboard arrow keys the scroll is choppy and almost unusable.
If I quit Safari and relaunch it, no problems what so ever.
Another issue I keep having with Safari is that it freezes and then crashes when I'm on the Apple Store on Apple.com. I've sent dozens of crash alerts to Apple for the last 3 weeks about this. I end up using Firefox to browse the Apple Store now. THAT IS SAD!
I've not had that problem with any PMG5, and that doesn't sound like a graphics issue.
I will be picking up my Mac Pro tomorrow though, it would get horizontal speckled lines when I play HD video. If I really stress the video, I can get corruption within 15 minutes of a cold boot.
Love to see your proof that Apple "?remove(s) threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing." That is not hearsay, anecdotal incidences or bloggers smoke, but real certified evidence.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Interesting that nobody has proved it. Just the same guys who repeatedly dis Apple on everything and in some cases, never even owned a Mac.
I hear you. Thank goodness only we the few, the privilege who have owned and continue to own multiple Macs and Apple products, and who have Steve Jobs number on speed dial have the right to speak ill of Apple. How dare someone that has no access to the secret decoder ring or handshakes speak about Apple in a less than flattering light.
Stone them. Stone them all.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Let's be perfectly clear.
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "?threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
I would suggest that if any posts have been removed, they fall well within Apples Legal Terms and Conditions for their Discussion Forums. http://discussions.apple.com/help.jspa#personnel.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
Let's be perfectly clear.
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "?threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
I would suggest that if any posts have been removed, they fall well within Apples Legal Terms and Conditions for their Discussion Forums. http://discussions.apple.com/help.jspa#personnel.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
AI really needs a *yawn* emoticon.
The converse could be said about you, and your ceaseless Apple cheerleading.
Too funny !!!!!!!!!
Yes, how noble of Apple.
Amazing, complaints when apple withholds and when they are up front. I guess you find what your looking for.
I've seen it happen, but I didn't make printouts or have them notarized like you would want.
Would it be a safe bet that those of us with the secret passwords, and handshakes who actually spend a far amount of time in the Apple Discussions Forum have a pretty good grasp on what goes on there rather than speculating about what is and what is not?
Let's be perfectly clear.
I asked for evidence to support the contention that Apple removes "…threads from the discussion forums that they find embarrassing."
So far, nobody has been able to do so. And in most cases those that support such are mainly the same individuals that repeatedly dis Apple on just about everything. Some in fact don't even own a Mac and never have.
I would suggest that if any posts have been removed, they fall well within Apples Legal Terms and Conditions for their Discussion Forums. http://discussions.apple.com/help.jspa#personnel.
However, I too have no evidence to support my contention. It is just that if I had to rely on some of the responders here, I too would be embarrassed, and thus have them removed from my list of references; that is, if they were every on it in the first place.
The part I had a problem with is the "...real certified evidence". If I had evidence, it certainly wouldn't be certified. You'd have to take it on faith that I didn't fabricate or alter it, though I think that would take more time than it's worth.
But I do believe you are right to ask for proof. And I think a valid rules violation was a component to it. But either contention can't be proven as a deleted thread is that way without record of what the thread was, or why it was deleted.
Interesting that nobody has proved it. Just the same guys who repeatedly dis Apple on everything and in some cases, never even owned a Mac.
your comment is not helping anyone.. anyways
from my experience with everything Apple, never buy innovation product from them, not least dont be the first one. I had problem with the MBP, MB, iPhone... the only one not having any problems is the old iPod. the second generation. Somehow i think they did not test their product properly. And their quality control is very poor. No wonder Apple is known for their best service.. Its because a lot of people need it.
I had Sony Vaio for 3 years and it never had any problem that require fixing or sending it to Sony. NEVER. although i'll admit that their service is no where near Apple's...
FYI, if you want to buy the innovation product from Apple, please buy the Apple Care. its worth it. especially for the new macs. the only ones that do not need apple care and are great are The powerbook G4s. it last for a long time.
Amazing, complaints when apple withholds and when they are up front. I guess you find what your looking for.
No one was complaining that Apple (eventually) was "upfront".
The complaint was that certain Apple users like to lavish praise on Apple for doing something that should have been done months ago.
Not to mention that it can be argued that being "upfront" by definition entails being forthright about the problem(s), which Apple clearly wasn't.
I also was a first day adopter of the Alu iMac and never had the much mentioned issues with that machine either.
Perhaps I just get really really lucky
Just saying it's not because an Apple product issue is all over the interwebs that every machine is plagued by it
Do you have Flip4Mac installed to watch WMV files? I don't know if the fault lies with Flip4Mac or Safari, but for some reason in Safari 3 (at least on a G4 PowerBook), after I've visited a page that causes the Flip4Mac plug-in to load, I found that Safari performance and responsiveness would slowly degrade to the point of unusability. Even if you close all your Safari windows, the plug-in apparently never unloads and keeps eating up more and more memory and processor. Quiting Safari was the only fix until I disabled the Flip4Mac Safari plugin altogether. Since I've done that the issue never happened again.
Have a bunch of pages open with lots of Flash adds can also degrade performance sigificantly, but I wouldn't think that would impact your G5 as much as it did my G4.
Good idea. I've tried installing the previous two versions of Flip4Mac and always had issues with WMVs ever since the Safari 3.1 upgrade.
I'll try just getting rid of it completely. Wonder how the old MS WMV Player works in the latest Safari? Guess we'll see tonight!
Thanks for the thoughts.
Goodness! I just placed my order and I'm getting cold feet now reading about this, coverflow and quicklook problems on the Apple discussion boards.
If it makes you feel any better, I've had my new MBP for about a month now. I haven't used QuickLook very often, but I've used Coverflow extensively while sorting and organizing folder of hundreds of photos. I've not had any issues with it. As far as these other display issues, I've used FrontRow a bit to play DVDs and video Podcasts. I haven't played very many QuickTime movies if that's where the problem is. But I haven't seen any of these other display issues (although I have seen some similar issues in Safari on an old PowerBook, which leads me to believe some of the problems are Safari/WebKit related).
I'm not saying there aren't some real issues out there. Just saying that it's not a pervasive as these boards may make it sound. You only hear from the people who are experiencing the problem, not the from the people with no problems. And from the people who do have problems, "the sky is falling!"
If it was just the MacBooks, I would blame Intel's integrated graphics, but with the MacBook Pro also exhibiting this behaviour I guess that there's an SSE4 optimised memcpy routine in Mac OS X that is causing the issue on Penryn based systems (which introduced SSE4). When you scroll a window, you copy the existing contents to the new location (memcpy, or in this instance a graphically oriented memcpy / software blitter) and draw in the new content. It's not done on the graphics card because of Mac OS X's OpenGL compositing engine. Wonder if enabling/disabling Quartz 2D Extreme (or whatever it is called now) in Leopard resolves the issue?
It should be fixed soon enough, but to be honest 2 months since the first report is rather appalling.
OpenGL's compositor for OS X is rendered on the GPU.
From Apple:
OpenGL Improvements
OpenGL is the industry-standard API for developing portable, interactive 2D and 3D applications. Mac OS X has supported OpenGL from the outset and in Leopard it adds pixel buffer objects, color managed texture images in the sRGB color space, and improvements in the shader programming API.
Leopard also provides a dramatic increase in OpenGL performance by offloading CPU-based processing onto another thread which can then run on a separate CPU core feeding the GPU. This can increase, or in some cases, approach double the performance of OpenGL-based applications.
---------------
The problem of the memcpy is between SSE4 and the GPU could be [speculating here] that Apple has moved from SSE3 code to SSE4 code and the device driver has issues dealing with some of it's matrix compilations. Flaws most certainly would include artifacts on screen with Quicktime and streaming.
Reference below from nVidia's CUDA reveals this link:
http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/a...s/eng/1248.htm
From Nvidia's forum:
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion...hp?t58202.html
On a side note: The CUDA tools from nVidia are in Beta for OS X.
I'd expect that Apple will have to release a device driver update to address these issues.
I only hope that a solution is also provided in the next Leopard update...
Good idea. I've tried installing the previous two versions of Flip4Mac and always had issues with WMVs ever since the Safari 3.1 upgrade.
I'll try just getting rid of it completely. Wonder how the old MS WMV Player works in the latest Safari? Guess we'll see tonight!
Thanks for the thoughts.
Yeah, I tried installing previous versions of F4M, too; but it didn't help. It appears to only affect the Safari plug-in; so if I really want to watch a WMV badly enough, I'll just download it and play it in QuickTime Player, which doesn't develop the same symptoms as Safari would. If I remember correclty (not at my Mac right now,
Another issue I keep having with Safari is that it freezes and then crashes when I'm on the Apple Store on Apple.com. I've sent dozens of crash alerts to Apple for the last 3 weeks about this. I end up using Firefox to browse the Apple Store now. THAT IS SAD!
I have this same problem only in my case Safari just hangs for a while and gives me the beach ball. If I wait a while it usually unhangs and I can go back to what I am doing.
I also had an issue while playing warcraft III the other day. I was having a lot of graphical glitches. It was still somewhat playable but it was very annoying and had never done it before.
I am not using one of the new MacBooks I have a Late 2006 model