Anytime you buy something, it's a contract. You may not realize it, but it's true. You've contracted to pay a certain amount of money up front for a certain number of minutes of calls. That's a contract.
Without nitpicking - yes, a sale constitutes a contract. In this case between me and the reseller (e.g. the operator of that newspaper stand). But besides that (District of Columbia Court of Appeals): "For there to be an enforceable contract, there must be mutual assent of each party to all of the essential terms of the contract..." This would at least require to be presented with terms and conditions - in quite some countries you can definitely get prepaid SIM cards without being told about any terms and conditions, most of the resellers cannot even give you details on per minute and data charges or conditions for reimbursement of credit. You might consider this "some kind of contract", in case of a legal dispute it is nothing.
Without nitpicking - yes, a sale constitutes a contract. In this case between me and the reseller (e.g. the operator of that newspaper stand). But besides that (District of Columbia Court of Appeals): "For there to be an enforceable contract, there must be mutual assent of each party to all of the essential terms of the contract..." This would at least require to be presented with terms and conditions - in quite some countries you can definitely get prepaid SIM cards without being told about any terms and conditions, most of the resellers cannot even give you details on per minute and data charges or conditions for reimbursement of credit. You might consider this "some kind of contract", in case of a legal dispute it is nothing.
Anyhow, the topic is not that important
It may be minor, but you insist in continuing it, so I shall as well. In most countries, the mere purchase is a contract, legalize missing or not. There is a part of law that "assumes" you are accepting a contract, even if you are not being presented with one.
If, for example, you "contract" to buy 60 minutes, but find that you only received 45, then you could sue. If it could be proved that you were correct, you would win.
You have to remember that a contract holds true for ALL parties.
But, your part is generally over once you pay your money.
There is a lot of information in the link below, but upon perusing I did not see a spscific term outside of the general defintion of 'contract' that backs up Melgross' initial statement.
edit1: It appears that this would be a "unilateral contract" in which the seller agrees to offer a service but the customer is not required to buy or use.
But I am a little suspicious re. Italy being a matter of 'few weeks.' I doubt that it will be released there before it is released in the US. Second, it will p-o Apple's partners in France, UK, and Germany, so I expect that Apple will want to do it simultaneously in those countries too.
Yeah, I was wondering about this too. This is the side of the story that I find most interesting.
When AI reports that they are getting "a several month exclusive on sales of a 3G iPhone" do they mean only in Italy or worldwide? If it is a worldwide exclusive, then Apple is showing Italian consumers some serious respect. I can't imagine other countries providers would like that though...
Could they be trying to time this so that the phones are available in Europe at the same time that the regulatory filing with the FCC in the use goes public?
Yeah, I was wondering about this too. This is the side of the story that I find most interesting.
When AI reports that they are getting "a several month exclusive on sales of a 3G iPhone" do they mean only in Italy or worldwide? If it is a worldwide exclusive, then Apple is showing Italian consumers some serious respect. I can't imagine other countries providers would like that though...
Could they be trying to time this so that the phones are available in Europe at the same time that the regulatory filing with the FCC in the use goes public?
If it's a worldwide exclusive --- then it's worse off for Italian consumers because there will be organized businesses just buying all the iphones in Italy to be exported worldwide. Then Apple will have to force people to buy by (Italian) credit card only, 2 iphones per person....
I will be in Italy starting June 15 for over a month. I am a T-Mobile user here in the states. My questions is, would I be able to put my t-mobile sim in the Italian 3g iPhone and have it work in the US? My Blackberry 8100 isn't a world-phone so I need to buy an Italian cellphone anyway. If the 3g Italian iPhone would work for me there and then work when I got home, I'd be in. Any thoughts?
I will be in Italy starting June 15 for over a month. I am a T-Mobile user here in the states. My questions is, would I be able to put my t-mobile sim in the Italian 3g iPhone and have it work in the US? My Blackberry 8100 isn't a world-phone so I need to buy an Italian cellphone anyway. If the 3g Italian iPhone would work for me there and then work when I got home, I'd be in. Any thoughts?
I believe you will for phone and EDGE, but you aren't going to get WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA data because of the different frequencies used by T-Mobile in the US.
I think this is going to make a lot of T-Mobile users with unlocked iPhones move to AT&T. I know of a couple that are going to make the reluctant move when 3G comes out.
If it's a worldwide exclusive --- then it's worse off for Italian consumers because there will be organized businesses just buying all the iphones in Italy to be exported worldwide. Then Apple will have to force people to buy by (Italian) credit card only, 2 iphones per person....
It will certainly not be world-wide exclusive, not even exclusive for Europe. But once they start selling unlocked phones anywhere in the world - this will pretty much be the beginning of the end for exclusive and locked phones everywhere (except maybe those countries with exclusive arrangements already in place, which is the highly interesting part here - the first will be last or so ).
Of course they can limit sales per person, but limiting sales to Italian credit card holders is not really an option. There is no sustainable approach to legally discriminate other Europeans when doing business anywhere in the EU. The prepaid market in Italy is about 90% of the mobile market and credit cards are also not as common as in the US.
Anytime you buy something, it's a contract. You may not realize it, but it's true. You've contracted to pay a certain amount of money up front for a certain number of minutes of calls. That's a contract.
Maybe it is like that in the US but in Europe you buy a prepaid card. If you do not recharge it when the credits run out, you can then only receive calls for either 3 or 6 months. Some countries allow more. This is really not that hard to understand. I prepaid contract is for people who do not want to be tied to a subscription.
Maybe it is like that in the US but in Europe you buy a prepaid card. If you do not recharge it when the credits run out, you can then only receive calls for either 3 or 6 months. Some countries allow more. This is really not that hard to understand. I prepaid contract is for people who do not want to be tied to a subscription.
It's still a contract, no matter what the actual deal is.
Comments
if they don't announce it for Ireland, I'll be going for a Nokia N96
Why is Italy allowed to have a contract free iphone and Ireland isn't?
The article does state the following:
Given that Italians are the number one consumer of pre-paid wireless contracts worldwide each year.
Please tell me it's coming to Japan soon!
Knowing your luck, Mr. Meister, I truly hope it does not come with a tilted screen!
Anytime you buy something, it's a contract. You may not realize it, but it's true. You've contracted to pay a certain amount of money up front for a certain number of minutes of calls. That's a contract.
Without nitpicking - yes, a sale constitutes a contract. In this case between me and the reseller (e.g. the operator of that newspaper stand). But besides that (District of Columbia Court of Appeals): "For there to be an enforceable contract, there must be mutual assent of each party to all of the essential terms of the contract..." This would at least require to be presented with terms and conditions - in quite some countries you can definitely get prepaid SIM cards without being told about any terms and conditions, most of the resellers cannot even give you details on per minute and data charges or conditions for reimbursement of credit. You might consider this "some kind of contract", in case of a legal dispute it is nothing.
Anyhow, the topic is not that important
Without nitpicking - yes, a sale constitutes a contract. In this case between me and the reseller (e.g. the operator of that newspaper stand). But besides that (District of Columbia Court of Appeals): "For there to be an enforceable contract, there must be mutual assent of each party to all of the essential terms of the contract..." This would at least require to be presented with terms and conditions - in quite some countries you can definitely get prepaid SIM cards without being told about any terms and conditions, most of the resellers cannot even give you details on per minute and data charges or conditions for reimbursement of credit. You might consider this "some kind of contract", in case of a legal dispute it is nothing.
Anyhow, the topic is not that important
It may be minor, but you insist in continuing it, so I shall as well. In most countries, the mere purchase is a contract, legalize missing or not. There is a part of law that "assumes" you are accepting a contract, even if you are not being presented with one.
If, for example, you "contract" to buy 60 minutes, but find that you only received 45, then you could sue. If it could be proved that you were correct, you would win.
You have to remember that a contract holds true for ALL parties.
But, your part is generally over once you pay your money.
edit2: Some more eye-glossing reading material:
But I am a little suspicious re. Italy being a matter of 'few weeks.' I doubt that it will be released there before it is released in the US. Second, it will p-o Apple's partners in France, UK, and Germany, so I expect that Apple will want to do it simultaneously in those countries too.
Yeah, I was wondering about this too. This is the side of the story that I find most interesting.
When AI reports that they are getting "a several month exclusive on sales of a 3G iPhone" do they mean only in Italy or worldwide? If it is a worldwide exclusive, then Apple is showing Italian consumers some serious respect. I can't imagine other countries providers would like that though...
Could they be trying to time this so that the phones are available in Europe at the same time that the regulatory filing with the FCC in the use goes public?
Yeah, I was wondering about this too. This is the side of the story that I find most interesting.
When AI reports that they are getting "a several month exclusive on sales of a 3G iPhone" do they mean only in Italy or worldwide? If it is a worldwide exclusive, then Apple is showing Italian consumers some serious respect. I can't imagine other countries providers would like that though...
Could they be trying to time this so that the phones are available in Europe at the same time that the regulatory filing with the FCC in the use goes public?
If it's a worldwide exclusive --- then it's worse off for Italian consumers because there will be organized businesses just buying all the iphones in Italy to be exported worldwide. Then Apple will have to force people to buy by (Italian) credit card only, 2 iphones per person....
3G iPhone in May, new mobile device at WWDC 2008?
I will be in Italy starting June 15 for over a month. I am a T-Mobile user here in the states. My questions is, would I be able to put my t-mobile sim in the Italian 3g iPhone and have it work in the US? My Blackberry 8100 isn't a world-phone so I need to buy an Italian cellphone anyway. If the 3g Italian iPhone would work for me there and then work when I got home, I'd be in. Any thoughts?
I believe you will for phone and EDGE, but you aren't going to get WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA data because of the different frequencies used by T-Mobile in the US.
I think this is going to make a lot of T-Mobile users with unlocked iPhones move to AT&T. I know of a couple that are going to make the reluctant move when 3G comes out.
Then Apple will have to force people to buy by (Italian) credit card only, 2 iphones per person....
So? Or did you forget to add a </sarcasm> tag?
So? Or did you forget to add a </sarcasm> tag?
So you ended up with the Italians unable to buy the 3G iphones because they are all bought up by businesses to be exported to China.
So you ended up with the Italians unable to buy the 3G iphones because they are all bought up by businesses to be exported to China.
And that is Apple's fault? Perhaps I am being dense, but I am not getting your point.
Doesn't France also have "unlocked" iPhones which can only be used in France?
They have phones that are unlocked but can be used everywhere.
If it's a worldwide exclusive --- then it's worse off for Italian consumers because there will be organized businesses just buying all the iphones in Italy to be exported worldwide. Then Apple will have to force people to buy by (Italian) credit card only, 2 iphones per person....
It will certainly not be world-wide exclusive, not even exclusive for Europe. But once they start selling unlocked phones anywhere in the world - this will pretty much be the beginning of the end for exclusive and locked phones everywhere (except maybe those countries with exclusive arrangements already in place, which is the highly interesting part here - the first will be last or so
Of course they can limit sales per person, but limiting sales to Italian credit card holders is not really an option. There is no sustainable approach to legally discriminate other Europeans when doing business anywhere in the EU. The prepaid market in Italy is about 90% of the mobile market and credit cards are also not as common as in the US.
Anytime you buy something, it's a contract. You may not realize it, but it's true. You've contracted to pay a certain amount of money up front for a certain number of minutes of calls. That's a contract.
Maybe it is like that in the US but in Europe you buy a prepaid card. If you do not recharge it when the credits run out, you can then only receive calls for either 3 or 6 months. Some countries allow more. This is really not that hard to understand. I prepaid contract is for people who do not want to be tied to a subscription.
Maybe it is like that in the US but in Europe you buy a prepaid card. If you do not recharge it when the credits run out, you can then only receive calls for either 3 or 6 months. Some countries allow more. This is really not that hard to understand. I prepaid contract is for people who do not want to be tied to a subscription.
It's still a contract, no matter what the actual deal is.
It's still a contract, no matter what the actual deal is.
so if I buy gas for my car it is a contract too? I don't see how this is different:
I have a phone, I need credit to call -or- I have a car, I need gas to drive
if I pay for 60 mins and only get 45 mins I take it up with the seller,
just like when I buy 60 liters of gas and only get 45 liters.
And that is Apple's fault? Perhaps I am being dense, but I am not getting your point.
Did I say that it's Apple's fault?
I was merely responding to the comment that Apple "showing" respect to Italians by offering 3G iphones exclusively to Italy for several months.