Bad apppleinsider. The Stonnington/FunFactory rumour was debunked about 12 months ago. Even apple said they had no idea about those renderings and that it was just the the developer or owner of the site's concept plan presented to council so they could get a planning permit. Even if it was to go ahead, a development like that would take 2 years to build, and that might only be after a successful marketing campaign to sellthe hundreds of apartments.
I don't know why this rumour persists when the developer and apple have both said it is nothing more than a drawing showing a possible use for the site.
I am also curious why apple has not announced a store for Melbourne's CBD which is the true shopping heart of Australia. Every weekend many thousands of people come from around the country to shop in Melbourne. Maybe apple will be involved in the new Myer Bourke St redevelopment - makes sense to me.
That's a fine location for the store, right in the commercial heart of the city with Sydney Tower and Pitt Street Mall, and the Queen Victoria Building only a block away.
Mmm, Darrell Lea ice creams just across the street…
Not sure about the negativity towards Sydney: it and Melbourne are fine places in their own right.
How many Australian cities have you actually lived in? I prefer Melbourne to Sydney because of it's open, uncongested feel and superior public transport but I've met a few people including an American recently who said it's the most livable city he's ever lived in (and he said that it's a lot including cities in Europe and North America). Sydney has some of the best beaches you'll find in any city and has a huge variety of cultural and artistic events. Did you try picking up the Friday paper and finding something interesting to do on the weekend??? I'm guessing not. Both rate highly in terms of livability internationally. By contrast most of the other Australian cities are more like big country towns. I lived in Brisbane for 3 months and couldn't get out of there quickly enough...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges
on the contrary, prolly the least liveable city in OZ, negatives are too long to list here. Can't understand why Apple would open a store down under, small underdeveloped market there. If anything should have been Melburn, a far more civilised place.
The media had a preview of the Sydney Apple Store today (including the glass staircase). If you want to see some photos, check out Australian Macworld.
Remember when everyone was speculating on the number of containers carrying millions of "electric devices" that were reaching U.S. ports regularly for many months? It was generally assumed that these were the new iphones and they were being warehoused around the country. It was also agreed to by many that this indicated an early distribution, perhaps on the very day Steve announced the new 3G phone over a week ago. Then we were told that it wasn't going to happen until July. I haven't seen a followup on this disconnect.
What were in these containers and if they were the iphones then why a months delay, and if they were not, then what are they? Or, were people blowing smoke at us. We bash those for negative reporting....how about the possibility of fictitious reporting of positive news to push the stock up?
Too many geeks focusing on the guts of the product and not enough business people on these blogs?
How many Australian cities have you actually lived in? I prefer Melbourne to Sydney because of it's open, uncongested feel and superior public transport but I've met a few people including an American recently who said it's the most livable city he's ever lived in (and he said that it's a lot including cities in Europe and North America). Sydney has some of the best beaches you'll find in any city and has a huge variety of cultural and artistic events. Did you try picking up the Friday paper and finding something interesting to do on the weekend??? I'm guessing not. Both rate highly in terms of livability internationally. By contrast most of the other Australian cities are more like big country towns. I lived in Brisbane for 3 months and couldn't get out of there quickly enough...
I lived and worked in all Australian cities bar Darwin, mainly based in Sydney. I agree with you that Melbourne is the only place worth staying down under but I quite liked Brisbane, for what it is. Not sure about "Sydney's best beaches, quite a disappointment actually but N. Sydney ain;'t too bad. Wot? culture? variety? decent social life? sophistication?I wouldn't associate these adjectives next to the word Australia. ya gotta be jokin' mate!
Quote:
Originally Posted by staphbaby
You correctly identify Sydney as being a pretty disappointing place, but the credibility of your assessment of the Australian market is somewhat diminished by the fact that you can't spell Melbourne. Whatever else you can say about Sydney, one would imagine a city of over 4 million people could support an Apple store.
I'm not convinced that Australia is a "small underdeveloped" market either. Apple has had a very strong presence in Australia pretty much since inception, and it has been noticeably growing in influence in recent years. Amongst my cohort of young professionals, they have probably now captured somewhere north of 20% of the market.
good to see you agree with me that Sydney is a less than satisfactory place to live in. Actually I would use the adjective "crap" to best describe it. I deliberately spelled "Melburn" as slang but then again ain't surprise me your lack of wit and humour. Those are unknown qualities down under. Canberra has far more variety and social life than Sydney (not that takes much anyway), I loved driving my motor from Sydney to Canberra every month, a 3 hours + drive. Fantastic drive, lake George and all. Australia is struggling to get foreign investments as well as attracting skilled, graduated labour to fill gaps in the job market and above all to raise the social and culture skills of its population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzip
Hmm... well I don't know what kind of experience you had, but a little positivity goes a long way in life!
Either way, I can't believe they're finally putting the old Fun Factory to use in Melbourne, who knew an Apple store would be going in there?! Awesome real-estate though. Great position right off Chapel St, and it should be a killer space. Yay Apple!
Jimzip
again Melburn ...... oopss Melbourne (just for our matey staphbaby, ya mate?) is a far better bet for any new development or foreign investment and I agree with you re: Chapel St area. Experience? Let's say that weather, open spaces, unspoiled nature, clean air are what makes the place great, loved N. QLD but then it starts and stop here. No comment on that unnecessary 2-legged appendage who is "temporarily" owning the place.
He drove his 'motor' down to Canberra, which identifies him as either English or British. He sounds like someone who's had a terrible experience down here in Australia, and I would guess, him being British and all, that it involved probably being refused a visa to stay. He's from the UK, and as anybody who's been to the UK knows, it's a nice place to visit, but not exactly a place you'd want to stay if you could help it.
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
He drove his 'motor' down to Canberra, which identifies him as either English or British. He sounds like someone who's had a terrible experience down here in Australia, and I would guess, him being British and all, that it involved probably being refused a visa to stay. He's from the UK, and as anybody who's been to the UK knows, it's a nice place to visit, but not exactly a place you'd want to stay if you could help it.
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
Well I was hoping to be able to invite the travelers to Sydney to stop by and see the Grand Opening of Apple in Waikiki on their way home. However there seems to have been some late design changes or materials that delayed the opening.
Apple totally missed the Center?s Grand Open House Celebration, their advertising push for the reopening after the upgraded construction is mostly finished.
The biggest delay is the outside facing and the glass.
I can't believe this thread has degenerated into a Sydney v Melbourne joust. For our international friends who may be unaware, there is a longstanding rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. It's one of the reasons they chose and built Canberra as the capital. Roughly positioned between the other two cities, it resolved any argument as to which of them should be the seat of Federal parliament.
Sydney, very pretty party town. Melbourne, sophistication and great food.
Canberra, shithole, social experiment gone horribly wrong. Enter at your own risk.
There is glass staircase. Photos by Mac+ (member here but posts mostly at AN these days). He's working in a building across the road.
I think Australia has been a small underdeveloped market for Apple compared to other parts of the world. But that seems to be rapidly changing. It was interesting to note that everybody waiting in line seemed to be relatively new Apple users (like a couple of years duration). Funny how the very same sort of fanatical behaviours that attracted ridicule to Mac fans for so many years have now been embraced by the great unwashed masses with such vigour and gusto.
He drove his 'motor' down to Canberra, which identifies him as either English or British. He sounds like someone who's had a terrible experience down here in Australia, and I would guess, him being British and all, that it involved probably being refused a visa to stay. He's from the UK, and as anybody who's been to the UK knows, it's a nice place to visit, but not exactly a place you'd want to stay if you could help it.
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
Better luck next time with your visa sarges.
nice try but wide of the mark, I?m not English or British but it?s interesting to see that you?re able to understand the difference. Having made London one of my homes and lived and worked there, I?ll take it as a compliment.
When in Australia I was offered (all costs paid) permanent residency but I politely declined. People need to understand that Australia is desperate, and I use this word correctly, to attract skilled, highly educated and middle class people around the world both to fill gaps in the job market and to raise the standard of social skills of its own people. Top business executives, successful professionals and laureates are headhunted, offered rich packages and long extended business visas to come here. We haven't come here as immigrants looking for a better life but rather as international business men and women to help this wretched society to better itself whilst getting well paid for it; people who enjoy the thrill of the challenge in being successful in far flung countries. Moving on after a few years to greener pastures. It would be interesting if the DIMA (Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) would release stat figures showing not only how successful this government has been in attracting high calibre people but also how many, in percentage, have remained here as permanent residents.
Now having put to bed your half baked, shot in the dark theory, let?s move on the 2nd part of your diatribe, and yes every country has its fair share of underclass, divvy chavvy who misbehave. It just that most seem to concentrate in OZ, where only a tiny percentage can be considered cultured and well educated. You?re right on commenting how this society?s underbelly has grown back in Europe, like an antibiotics resistant bacteria. Maybe is high time to restore those boat services that were so effective (in eradicating the problem) a couple of centuries ago. Mate, you?re def on shaky grounds when commenting on things like history, heritage, sophistication, intellectualism, culture, education etc.. to fully address your remarks, it?d be like shooting on the red cross. Not fair.
Re: Sydney, the place is hideous, dreadful architecture, no existent public transport (ferry system is nice though) worst road flow system I ever experienced (and I travelled and driven in more than 20 countries), lack of night life (bar for a few spots in Sydney proper and only at w/e), everything shuts at 10pm. Food is varied and fresh but the total lack of indigenous cuisine or expertise how to cook, makes eating out a hit & miss. Unless of course one?s idea of good food is barbies outside sport clubs. The only (man made) decent part is around Anzac bridge & Darling Harbour, it?s actually a nice drive on that bride at dusk time. I?m not sure Sydney can support an Apple store as only few people own (too expensive for them) or understand Macs. Again and again Melbourne is the place where investment can bring good return. The only city with some sort of social life and a degree of culturally aware people who also know how to do business.
Good luck to Apple and let?s hope it?ll be a success.
Your choice of words throughout all your posts make it plain as day you are British Sarges: wot, chavvy, motor, etc. Only the British use these words. I would guess you're English!!
And I guess you're trying to hide that fact to appear unbiased in your criticisms, to make it look like it isn't an Australia versus England thing, but just the observations of a ' highly educated international businessman' haha, like yourself. You're probably a fat English bloke sitting at your PC, with a can of Tenants in your hand, pouring scorn on all things Australian in lots of forums all over the net.
If you feel it necessary to use an apple forum to express your bitterness with Australia ( probably because of being refused a visa as I mentioned before, or possibly because you are upset by the fact that in your dealings with Australians, you've noticed we don't particularly rate you ) then you are really pretty sad.
Anyway, in answer to your claim about Australians not being as educated as other nations, and needing high flyers like yourself to get along in the world, I?ve found a gem of a piece of evidence to contradict you, and from the BBC too no less.
The original source of the figures quoted in the BBC article are from the OECD, which would make the results pretty difficult to discount I'd imagine, seeing as the OECD has no agenda or bias, but is purely concerned with straight ahead statistical analysis of many countries. Furthermore, considering you are British - regardless of your unwillingness to own up -then we can look at the figures as an Australia versus Britain thing if you want.
The link is below, but just for your information, I'll paraphrase it here. It states three quarters of young people in Australia are tertiary educated compared with about 50% in the UK.
So the following statement is totally accurate: Australia is a more educated country than the UK. Haha.
And apart from a higher percentage of Australians with a tertiary education, it seems our young people also receive a better education than those in the UK . Again, to paraphrase the following article from the BBC, it states that in a recent OECD study of the education stadards in many countries, the UK's results were behind Australia's by some measure. Here's the link.
I wonder why English people always tend to disparage other countries education systems when they arrive as immigrants, as if they are reluctantly letting their children go down scale. I've heard it many times ' oh, we like the sun, but we're worried little Nigel's educations will suffer'.
While Australia is not perfect, it's generally pretty good; one of the world's better places to get an education, and it is obviously better than in your country - at least the OECD seems to think so. So little Nigel will actually be better off here in Australia than in the UK. He will most probably go to University as well. I think quite a few English people in their less nationalistic moments acknowledge this.
So this fallacy about you being from a more educated country than Australia can be put to bed. It's wrong. Not true!!
Regarding the fact that Australia is desperate for educated immigrants, I'd say yes, you are right. That's because we have the lowest level of unemployment for 33 years, and there are still new jobs being created by a booming economy, which we don't have the people to fill. Hence we look abroad.
We could go to the US to entice people to come here, or Canada, but I imagine our government would find it harder to get people from there, as it's pretty nice in those two countries, so we go to the UK. Not much effort required and you get a HUGE result. People seem to be dying to leave the place. Like yourself!!
Here is an article about it. One of many I found in a couple of minutes on Google. You're all basically leaving!!
In the UK there are 300, 000 Australians, 25% of which are back packers who stay less than a year. The rest work in London and travel in Europe for about two or three years and then come home. A very small percentage actually stays there for a long time. You can also try to disprove those assertions if you want. I'm just recalling here what I read a while ago.
We have a population of 21 million, of which about 1 million are British. You have a population of 60 million, of which 300, 000 are Australians. And those 300, 000 will be back soon. Are you getting my point yet?
You also mentioned that you are here to help us with our social skills. Do you mean the social skill of being able to offend vast amounts of the world's population and render yourself one of the most unpopular nations in the world? It's no secret that the UK is very unloved in many many countries.
The English tend to say ' oh, that's our history, people don't like us because of our history '.
I doubt that is the case. There is something very unattractive in the English character that rubs people up the wrong way. I suspect it has something to do with the whole ' we are cleverer than you' mode of argument that you yourself have resorted to Sarge.
Maybe it is because you are from such a class ridden country, that when you are in a quarrel, you immediately resort to the same kind of thing you do with each other in England: I am more educated, more sophisticated, have a greater import in the world, a greater background than you. It may work in the UK but people from most other places just think ' what a wanker'.
For all the things Britain have done in Europe in the last hundred or so years, the continental Europeans have a real resistance to actually acknowledging it. They all seem to acknowledge America's role in saving them, but not that of Britain. I often wondered why this was so. After some time it became obvious that there is a deep-seated dislike of the English in Europe.
They are obviously polite and friendly enough when you are there, but if you ask a few probing questions of an Italian, Spaniard or Frenchman, you get more or less the same kind of response: the English are particular, the English are difficult people, etc.
They can't vocalize it 100% correctly in English, but what they seem to be getting at is the same thing I have described here: the English attitude of being somehow better. What's laughable about this whole thing is that you are so obviously not better, but in fact, in many ways, very inferior, but when annoyed, you all insist on taking this attitude nonetheless.
In an argument with a Frenchman or an Italian, they will never resort to any of this tripe that you dish up. They say ' oh, Australia is a new country, or Canada or America is a new country ' and leave it at that.
I guess they see the illogicality of comparing the the achievements of a country that is 1000 years old with the achievements of a country that in Australia's case has been a self governing entity since 1901, being a British colony before that; while England has been around for 1000 years. So why do English people insist on raising their superior history in every confrontation with an Australian, American or Canadian?
The Italians have a better history than you but they don't it. The French have an arguably more dramatic, exciting history than you, and neither do they do it. And what those countries have also managed to do in their long histories has been to invent superb cuisines, exquisite architecture, and great fashion, all of which England has failed to do. England's architecture is largely grim, excepting some parts of London, and your achievements in fashion and food are really poor compared to the countries I've just mentioned.
It is funny that you mention Australia's lack of indigenous cuisine as proof of our inferiority, when what we have was inherited from you. But yes, you are right, we don't have a world beating homegrown cuisine, but nor do you. But what we have in the way of an eating out culture is far superior to what you have in the UK.
If you are wealthy then yes, London has more 5 star restaurants than anywhere in Australia. But for the vast majority of people they are forced to do with fry-ups in crappy cafes, or only Indian food - nice though it is.
You have nowhere near the amount or range of good, cheap, accessible restaurants of different types that we do. I think the word accessible is a good one in this regard. In Britain there are excellent schools and excellent restaurants, but they are just not accessible to most people, hence the inferiority and lack of quality of everything below that top, thin, upper-class level.
Your other social skill, as I mentioned before, is binge drinking on a truly majestic scale. We also binge drink, but our levels of alcohol abuse, bad though they are, don't really register when looked at next to yours.
I don't really need to the OECD to confirm what anybody who goes out at night in the UK can see with their own eyes: total yobs running amok, drunken women screaming and vomiting in the gutters, people being beaten up for no reason. It's gruesome. God help us that we don't become like that. Yes, I know, a bit of that goes on here, but it really genuinely is not as totally out of control as where you come from, and really not on the same monumental scale.
I am always perplexed when a Brit refers to Australians as uncouth, beer swilling people. It is another thing that is simply just not true. We don't drink as much as you at all. I really wonder why you all insist on pulling out these myths so frequently. You people are the beer swilling yobs, not us.
We also don't invade small towns in Europe for football matches pissed out of our brains. We don't behave like you people do on Spanish beaches or on Greek Islands. We basically don't have that drunken pack mentality that you all do. 'We're all pissed, all 500 of us, and we're English' - Engerland Engerland. That kind of mindless stuff you all do so well. You really should be ashamed of that. It really is worthy of great shame.
Anyway, I guess this should give you something to stew over Sarge. You can think of a devastating reply to this post if you like, and also spend your time scouring other forums to find references to Australia so you can whip off a quick barb to get revenge for whatever is eating you up.
I think the essence of many conflicts between Australians and the English, is that we simply don't rate you. We look at you, at your posturing, your sneering, your poison little jibes, at your claims to being more cultured and educated, and think ' well, they do have a better history than us, but the rest is pretty laughable'. Maybe this hurts you all: not being rated as much as you think you deserve. It's not just us either, Americans and Canadians don't rate you much either.
You have to face up to what your country is now. Not what it was in the past. Now, in 2008, your country is a crappy little place, and Australia is just much better. I guess that hurts.
WOW That's gotta be the longest AI post I've seen! Well done...maybe now we put this whole UK vs Aus/Melb vs Syd thing behind us!! So, the new store looks pretty nice...
Your choice of words throughout all your posts make it plain as day you are British Sarges: wot, chavvy, motor, etc. Only the British use these words. I would guess you're English!!
And I guess you're trying to hide that fact to appear unbiased in your criticisms, to make it look like it isn't an Australia versus England thing, but just the observations of a ' highly educated international businessman' haha, like yourself. You're probably a fat English bloke sitting at your PC, with a can of Tenants in your hand, pouring scorn on all things Australian in lots of forums all over the net.
If you feel it necessary to use an apple forum to express your bitterness with Australia ( probably because of being refused a visa as I mentioned before, or possibly because you are upset by the fact that in your dealings with Australians, you've noticed we don't particularly rate you ) then you are really pretty sad.
Anyway, in answer to your claim about Australians not being as educated as other nations, and needing high flyers like yourself to get along in the world, I?ve found a gem of a piece of evidence to contradict you, and from the BBC too no less.
The original source of the figures quoted in the BBC article are from the OECD, which would make the results pretty difficult to discount I'd imagine, seeing as the OECD has no agenda or bias, but is purely concerned with straight ahead statistical analysis of many countries. Furthermore, considering you are British - regardless of your unwillingness to own up -then we can look at the figures as an Australia versus Britain thing if you want.
The link is below, but just for your information, I'll paraphrase it here. It states three quarters of young people in Australia are tertiary educated compared with about 50% in the UK.
So the following statement is totally accurate: Australia is a more educated country than the UK. Haha.
And apart from a higher percentage of Australians with a tertiary education, it seems our young people also receive a better education than those in the UK . Again, to paraphrase the following article from the BBC, it states that in a recent OECD study of the education stadards in many countries, the UK's results were behind Australia's by some measure. Here's the link.
I wonder why English people always tend to disparage other countries education systems when they arrive as immigrants, as if they are reluctantly letting their children go down scale. I've heard it many times ' oh, we like the sun, but we're worried little Nigel's educations will suffer'.
While Australia is not perfect, it's generally pretty good; one of the world's better places to get an education, and it is obviously better than in your country - at least the OECD seems to think so. So little Nigel will actually be better off here in Australia than in the UK. He will most probably go to University as well. I think quite a few English people in their less nationalistic moments acknowledge this.
So this fallacy about you being from a more educated country than Australia can be put to bed. It's wrong. Not true!!
Regarding the fact that Australia is desperate for educated immigrants, I'd say yes, you are right. That's because we have the lowest level of unemployment for 33 years, and there are still new jobs being created by a booming economy, which we don't have the people to fill. Hence we look abroad.
We could go to the US to entice people to come here, or Canada, but I imagine our government would find it harder to get people from there, as it's pretty nice in those two countries, so we go to the UK. Not much effort required and you get a HUGE result. People seem to be dying to leave the place. Like yourself!!
Here is an article about it. One of many I found in a couple of minutes on Google. You're all basically leaving!!
In the UK there are 300, 000 Australians, 25% of which are back packers who stay less than a year. The rest work in London and travel in Europe for about two or three years and then come home. A very small percentage actually stays there for a long time. You can also try to disprove those assertions if you want. I'm just recalling here what I read a while ago.
We have a population of 21 million, of which about 1 million are British. You have a population of 60 million, of which 300, 000 are Australians. And those 300, 000 will be back soon. Are you getting my point yet?
You also mentioned that you are here to help us with our social skills. Do you mean the social skill of being able to offend vast amounts of the world's population and render yourself one of the most unpopular nations in the world? It's no secret that the UK is very unloved in many many countries.
The English tend to say ' oh, that's our history, people don't like us because of our history '.
I doubt that is the case. There is something very unattractive in the English character that rubs people up the wrong way. I suspect it has something to do with the whole ' we are cleverer than you' mode of argument that you yourself have resorted to Sarge.
Maybe it is because you are from such a class ridden country, that when you are in a quarrel, you immediately resort to the same kind of thing you do with each other in England: I am more educated, more sophisticated, have a greater import in the world, a greater background than you. It may work in the UK but people from most other places just think ' what a wanker'.
For all the things Britain have done in Europe in the last hundred or so years, the continental Europeans have a real resistance to actually acknowledging it. They all seem to acknowledge America's role in saving them, but not that of Britain. I often wondered why this was so. After some time it became obvious that there is a deep-seated dislike of the English in Europe.
They are obviously polite and friendly enough when you are there, but if you ask a few probing questions of an Italian, Spaniard or Frenchman, you get more or less the same kind of response: the English are particular, the English are difficult people, etc.
They can't vocalize it 100% correctly in English, but what they seem to be getting at is the same thing I have described here: the English attitude of being somehow better. What's laughable about this whole thing is that you are so obviously not better, but in fact, in many ways, very inferior, but when annoyed, you all insist on taking this attitude nonetheless.
In an argument with a Frenchman or an Italian, they will never resort to any of this tripe that you dish up. They say ' oh, Australia is a new country, or Canada or America is a new country ' and leave it at that.
I guess they see the illogicality of comparing the the achievements of a country that is 1000 years old with the achievements of a country that in Australia's case has been a self governing entity since 1901, being a British colony before that; while England has been around for 1000 years. So why do English people insist on raising their superior history in every confrontation with an Australian, American or Canadian?
The Italians have a better history than you but they don't it. The French have an arguably more dramatic, exciting history than you, and neither do they do it. And what those countries have also managed to do in their long histories has been to invent superb cuisines, exquisite architecture, and great fashion, all of which England has failed to do. England's architecture is largely grim, excepting some parts of London, and your achievements in fashion and food are really poor compared to the countries I've just mentioned.
It is funny that you mention Australia's lack of indigenous cuisine as proof of our inferiority, when what we have was inherited from you. But yes, you are right, we don't have a world beating homegrown cuisine, but nor do you. But what we have in the way of an eating out culture is far superior to what you have in the UK.
If you are wealthy then yes, London has more 5 star restaurants than anywhere in Australia. But for the vast majority of people they are forced to do with fry-ups in crappy cafes, or only Indian food - nice though it is.
You have nowhere near the amount or range of good, cheap, accessible restaurants of different types that we do. I think the word accessible is a good one in this regard. In Britain there are excellent schools and excellent restaurants, but they are just not accessible to most people, hence the inferiority and lack of quality of everything below that top, thin, upper-class level.
Your other social skill, as I mentioned before, is binge drinking on a truly majestic scale. We also binge drink, but our levels of alcohol abuse, bad though they are, don't really register when looked at next to yours.
I don't really need to the OECD to confirm what anybody who goes out at night in the UK can see with their own eyes: total yobs running amok, drunken women screaming and vomiting in the gutters, people being beaten up for no reason. It's gruesome. God help us that we don't become like that. Yes, I know, a bit of that goes on here, but it really genuinely is not as totally out of control as where you come from, and really not on the same monumental scale.
I am always perplexed when a Brit refers to Australians as uncouth, beer swilling people. It is another thing that is simply just not true. We don't drink as much as you at all. I really wonder why you all insist on pulling out these myths so frequently. You people are the beer swilling yobs, not us.
We also don't invade small towns in Europe for football matches pissed out of our brains. We don't behave like you people do on Spanish beaches or on Greek Islands. We basically don't have that drunken pack mentality that you all do. 'We're all pissed, all 500 of us, and we're English' - Engerland Engerland. That kind of mindless stuff you all do so well. You really should be ashamed of that. It really is worthy of great shame.
Anyway, I guess this should give you something to stew over Sarge. You can think of a devastating reply to this post if you like, and also spend your time scouring other forums to find references to Australia so you can whip off a quick barb to get revenge for whatever is eating you up.
I think the essence of many conflicts between Australians and the English, is that we simply don't rate you. We look at you, at your posturing, your sneering, your poison little jibes, at your claims to being more cultured and educated, and think ' well, they do have a better history than us, but the rest is pretty laughable'. Maybe this hurts you all: not being rated as much as you think you deserve. It's not just us either, Americans and Canadians don't rate you much either.
You have to face up to what your country is now. Not what it was in the past. Now, in 2008, your country is a crappy little place, and Australia is just much better. I guess that hurts.
Bye Sarges.
Using typically English words doesn?t make you a British national other than demonstrating that one has lived, learnt the language in that country. But you?ve chosen to convince yourself otherwise, I guess ?cuz it gave you an opportunity to vent your frustration at being made feel an uncouth bonehead (an aussie stereotype) everytime you travelled to Europe and to a lesser extent to USA. You mentioned in your earlier post that you lived in Britain, an area where all aussies concentrate on is Earls? Court, London. How fitting! A ghetto for low lifers, drug dealers, cheap & nasty trollops, UB scroungers and hardly any coherent English spoken there. Betcha you felt right back home there. If you used Kensington & Chelsea borough as an example of (some) cultured people living in a defined area, than it really shows that you haven?t got the foggiest idea how the British society works and its class system.
Unlike you I don?t spend days on end researching online to find a chink in the armor of another country education system. The fact of the matter is that Australia desperately needs professional, university educated people to fill in gaps in the job markets. We?re not talking about general low grade labourers (like your good self), but professions like doctors, engineers, architectures etc... Every year the Australian government set stalls at international job fairs to attract those people, in their several thousands, giving them extended business visas and other financial incentives. That?s a fact, just check your own government?s website. Conversely in Europe we have a highly educated population, an excess of laureates who struggle in the highly competitive job market, a good number of them choose to find employment abroad in developing countries (like Australia) where there is a demand for their skills. What is needed in Europe is a number of low grade general labourers (like your good self) to do those jobs we consider demeaning and are lowly paid.
It kinda ironic your remarks about my posts here, while you up to date have only 3 posts and 2 of them are about Australia. Pot calling the kettle black? but then again sense of humour is an unknown concept in the land of gormless convicts and human rejects. One thing that you notice immediately in OZ is how self conscious people are of their origins, one could cut with a knife the tick, massive sense of inferiority complex. A not totally unjustified feeling, I must add. The more sensitive ones are those of European background (not British), whose parents came to OZ in cargo ships holding cartoon suitcases and with a history of abject poverty and illiterates in their native countries. Those 2nd wave of European immigrants had to find battles to live alongside with the British convict criminals? offsprings who initially stormed the land, a century earlier. No wonder why this is a wretched society, given that the overwhelming majority of Australians have such background.
Comments
I don't know why this rumour persists when the developer and apple have both said it is nothing more than a drawing showing a possible use for the site.
I am also curious why apple has not announced a store for Melbourne's CBD which is the true shopping heart of Australia. Every weekend many thousands of people come from around the country to shop in Melbourne. Maybe apple will be involved in the new Myer Bourke St redevelopment - makes sense to me.
Mmm, Darrell Lea ice creams just across the street…
Not sure about the negativity towards Sydney: it and Melbourne are fine places in their own right.
Right. Maybe it "sloped" away from the building.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic
Technically, San Jose would be the hometown store, wouldn't it?
The hometown is where ever the garage Steve and friends started in ? right? <<
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That would be:
2066 Crist Drive, Los Altos, California
Or, as Hagrid would say, "I shouldn't have said that."
on the contrary, prolly the least liveable city in OZ, negatives are too long to list here. Can't understand why Apple would open a store down under, small underdeveloped market there. If anything should have been Melburn, a far more civilised place.
What were in these containers and if they were the iphones then why a months delay, and if they were not, then what are they? Or, were people blowing smoke at us. We bash those for negative reporting....how about the possibility of fictitious reporting of positive news to push the stock up?
Too many geeks focusing on the guts of the product and not enough business people on these blogs?
How many Australian cities have you actually lived in? I prefer Melbourne to Sydney because of it's open, uncongested feel and superior public transport but I've met a few people including an American recently who said it's the most livable city he's ever lived in (and he said that it's a lot including cities in Europe and North America). Sydney has some of the best beaches you'll find in any city and has a huge variety of cultural and artistic events. Did you try picking up the Friday paper and finding something interesting to do on the weekend??? I'm guessing not. Both rate highly in terms of livability internationally. By contrast most of the other Australian cities are more like big country towns. I lived in Brisbane for 3 months and couldn't get out of there quickly enough...
I lived and worked in all Australian cities bar Darwin, mainly based in Sydney. I agree with you that Melbourne is the only place worth staying down under but I quite liked Brisbane, for what it is. Not sure about "Sydney's best beaches, quite a disappointment actually but N. Sydney ain;'t too bad. Wot? culture? variety? decent social life? sophistication?I wouldn't associate these adjectives next to the word Australia. ya gotta be jokin' mate!
You correctly identify Sydney as being a pretty disappointing place, but the credibility of your assessment of the Australian market is somewhat diminished by the fact that you can't spell Melbourne. Whatever else you can say about Sydney, one would imagine a city of over 4 million people could support an Apple store.
I'm not convinced that Australia is a "small underdeveloped" market either. Apple has had a very strong presence in Australia pretty much since inception, and it has been noticeably growing in influence in recent years. Amongst my cohort of young professionals, they have probably now captured somewhere north of 20% of the market.
good to see you agree with me that Sydney is a less than satisfactory place to live in. Actually I would use the adjective "crap" to best describe it. I deliberately spelled "Melburn" as slang but then again ain't surprise me your lack of wit and humour. Those are unknown qualities down under. Canberra has far more variety and social life than Sydney (not that takes much anyway), I loved driving my motor from Sydney to Canberra every month, a 3 hours + drive. Fantastic drive, lake George and all. Australia is struggling to get foreign investments as well as attracting skilled, graduated labour to fill gaps in the job market and above all to raise the social and culture skills of its population.
Hmm... well I don't know what kind of experience you had, but a little positivity goes a long way in life!
Either way, I can't believe they're finally putting the old Fun Factory to use in Melbourne, who knew an Apple store would be going in there?! Awesome real-estate though. Great position right off Chapel St, and it should be a killer space. Yay Apple!
Jimzip
again Melburn ...... oopss Melbourne (just for our matey staphbaby, ya mate?) is a far better bet for any new development or foreign investment and I agree with you re: Chapel St area. Experience? Let's say that weather, open spaces, unspoiled nature, clean air are what makes the place great, loved N. QLD but then it starts and stop here. No comment on that unnecessary 2-legged appendage who is "temporarily" owning the place.
enjoy!
...Not sure about the negativity towards Sydney: it and Melbourne are fine places in their own right.
If anything, Sydney is *too* fun... Sometimes these people party a lot harder than even San Francisco. Crazy bastards...
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
Better luck next time with your visa sarges.
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
Better luck next time with your visa sarges.
Apple totally missed the Center?s Grand Open House Celebration, their advertising push for the reopening after the upgraded construction is mostly finished.
The biggest delay is the outside facing and the glass.
My webpage on the construction
http://web.mac.com/marktrek/Apple/Ro...an_Center.html
The Shopping Center?s page
http://www.royalhawaiiancenter.com/
Mahalo, Mark
I can't believe this thread has degenerated into a Sydney v Melbourne joust. For our international friends who may be unaware, there is a longstanding rivalry between Sydney and Melbourne. It's one of the reasons they chose and built Canberra as the capital. Roughly positioned between the other two cities, it resolved any argument as to which of them should be the seat of Federal parliament.
Sydney, very pretty party town. Melbourne, sophistication and great food.
Canberra, shithole, social experiment gone horribly wrong. Enter at your own risk.
There is glass staircase. Photos by Mac+ (member here but posts mostly at AN these days). He's working in a building across the road.
I think Australia has been a small underdeveloped market for Apple compared to other parts of the world. But that seems to be rapidly changing. It was interesting to note that everybody waiting in line seemed to be relatively new Apple users (like a couple of years duration). Funny how the very same sort of fanatical behaviours that attracted ridicule to Mac fans for so many years have now been embraced by the great unwashed masses with such vigour and gusto.
He drove his 'motor' down to Canberra, which identifies him as either English or British. He sounds like someone who's had a terrible experience down here in Australia, and I would guess, him being British and all, that it involved probably being refused a visa to stay. He's from the UK, and as anybody who's been to the UK knows, it's a nice place to visit, but not exactly a place you'd want to stay if you could help it.
The numbers of British immigrants to Australia speaks for itself - hundreds of thousands, more than any other race, and that;s saying something in a country of immigrants. And how many Australians choose to go to live permanently in the UK, I would guess not too many. The vast majority of Australians use the UK as a base to work in and save money to travel Europe, and then return home. It's a travellers rest stop, a place to work for a while to get some international experience on the reume, but it's never a place that someone would choose to stay. You know this deep in your heart sarge, so just admit it.
As for the rant on culture, sophistication, etc, the last time I was in the UK I saw none of this supposed culture he talks about, and instead, a lot of drunken yobs and ladettes vomiting in the street, hoodies roaming around in gangs, and just general boorish behavior of the worst kind.
Ask any continental European about the English and watch their face curl into a snarl of distaste. No sophitication at football matches, or on the beaches of Spain, or in the streets of England, just moronic antics. The idea that the UK is more sophisticated is laughable. It has better history, but so does Italy, France and Spain. It has greater cultural achievements, and so it should, being 1000 years old. It would be fairer to wait until Australia is another 900 years older before comparing the two in that regard. But as for it being more refined, and somehow more witty and elegant, this is extremely funny to people who know the UK.
You see, when they British are upset about Australia, they like to whip out these old chestnuts of Australia lacking sophistication, culture, elegance, etc, but the fact of the matter,and this is obvious to anyone who has spent time in both countries, is that the UK is actually none of thesethings it professes to be. Maybe a small percentage who live in Chelsea and kensington are like this, but the vast majority are drunken fools, who live in a really crappy place, in dark crappy houses, and eating miserable food.
I have worked in the UK, and I have worked in the US and Australia, and by far, Britain is the most horrible place to live. And the whole rant about the superior cultiure, wit, etc, in the UK is simply not true. It's a myth perpetuated by some British people, and probably used as a defence mechanism against people who live in other places like Australia, Canada and the US, which are just much better places to be.
Sydney is not New York City, or London, or Paris, it is not one of the behemoth cities of the world, but it is a great place where people have money, and can definitely support a big apple store.
Better luck next time with your visa sarges.
nice try but wide of the mark, I?m not English or British but it?s interesting to see that you?re able to understand the difference. Having made London one of my homes and lived and worked there, I?ll take it as a compliment.
When in Australia I was offered (all costs paid) permanent residency but I politely declined. People need to understand that Australia is desperate, and I use this word correctly, to attract skilled, highly educated and middle class people around the world both to fill gaps in the job market and to raise the standard of social skills of its own people. Top business executives, successful professionals and laureates are headhunted, offered rich packages and long extended business visas to come here. We haven't come here as immigrants looking for a better life but rather as international business men and women to help this wretched society to better itself whilst getting well paid for it; people who enjoy the thrill of the challenge in being successful in far flung countries. Moving on after a few years to greener pastures. It would be interesting if the DIMA (Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) would release stat figures showing not only how successful this government has been in attracting high calibre people but also how many, in percentage, have remained here as permanent residents.
Now having put to bed your half baked, shot in the dark theory, let?s move on the 2nd part of your diatribe, and yes every country has its fair share of underclass, divvy chavvy who misbehave. It just that most seem to concentrate in OZ, where only a tiny percentage can be considered cultured and well educated. You?re right on commenting how this society?s underbelly has grown back in Europe, like an antibiotics resistant bacteria. Maybe is high time to restore those boat services that were so effective (in eradicating the problem) a couple of centuries ago. Mate, you?re def on shaky grounds when commenting on things like history, heritage, sophistication, intellectualism, culture, education etc.. to fully address your remarks, it?d be like shooting on the red cross. Not fair.
Re: Sydney, the place is hideous, dreadful architecture, no existent public transport (ferry system is nice though) worst road flow system I ever experienced (and I travelled and driven in more than 20 countries), lack of night life (bar for a few spots in Sydney proper and only at w/e), everything shuts at 10pm. Food is varied and fresh but the total lack of indigenous cuisine or expertise how to cook, makes eating out a hit & miss. Unless of course one?s idea of good food is barbies outside sport clubs. The only (man made) decent part is around Anzac bridge & Darling Harbour, it?s actually a nice drive on that bride at dusk time. I?m not sure Sydney can support an Apple store as only few people own (too expensive for them) or understand Macs. Again and again Melbourne is the place where investment can bring good return. The only city with some sort of social life and a degree of culturally aware people who also know how to do business.
Good luck to Apple and let?s hope it?ll be a success.
And I guess you're trying to hide that fact to appear unbiased in your criticisms, to make it look like it isn't an Australia versus England thing, but just the observations of a ' highly educated international businessman' haha, like yourself. You're probably a fat English bloke sitting at your PC, with a can of Tenants in your hand, pouring scorn on all things Australian in lots of forums all over the net.
If you feel it necessary to use an apple forum to express your bitterness with Australia ( probably because of being refused a visa as I mentioned before, or possibly because you are upset by the fact that in your dealings with Australians, you've noticed we don't particularly rate you ) then you are really pretty sad.
Anyway, in answer to your claim about Australians not being as educated as other nations, and needing high flyers like yourself to get along in the world, I?ve found a gem of a piece of evidence to contradict you, and from the BBC too no less.
The original source of the figures quoted in the BBC article are from the OECD, which would make the results pretty difficult to discount I'd imagine, seeing as the OECD has no agenda or bias, but is purely concerned with straight ahead statistical analysis of many countries. Furthermore, considering you are British - regardless of your unwillingness to own up -then we can look at the figures as an Australia versus Britain thing if you want.
The link is below, but just for your information, I'll paraphrase it here. It states three quarters of young people in Australia are tertiary educated compared with about 50% in the UK.
So the following statement is totally accurate: Australia is a more educated country than the UK. Haha.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/6999182.stm
And apart from a higher percentage of Australians with a tertiary education, it seems our young people also receive a better education than those in the UK . Again, to paraphrase the following article from the BBC, it states that in a recent OECD study of the education stadards in many countries, the UK's results were behind Australia's by some measure. Here's the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7115692.stm
I wonder why English people always tend to disparage other countries education systems when they arrive as immigrants, as if they are reluctantly letting their children go down scale. I've heard it many times ' oh, we like the sun, but we're worried little Nigel's educations will suffer'.
While Australia is not perfect, it's generally pretty good; one of the world's better places to get an education, and it is obviously better than in your country - at least the OECD seems to think so. So little Nigel will actually be better off here in Australia than in the UK. He will most probably go to University as well. I think quite a few English people in their less nationalistic moments acknowledge this.
So this fallacy about you being from a more educated country than Australia can be put to bed. It's wrong. Not true!!
Regarding the fact that Australia is desperate for educated immigrants, I'd say yes, you are right. That's because we have the lowest level of unemployment for 33 years, and there are still new jobs being created by a booming economy, which we don't have the people to fill. Hence we look abroad.
We could go to the US to entice people to come here, or Canada, but I imagine our government would find it harder to get people from there, as it's pretty nice in those two countries, so we go to the UK. Not much effort required and you get a HUGE result. People seem to be dying to leave the place. Like yourself!!
Here is an article about it. One of many I found in a couple of minutes on Google. You're all basically leaving!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-UK-soars.html
In the UK there are 300, 000 Australians, 25% of which are back packers who stay less than a year. The rest work in London and travel in Europe for about two or three years and then come home. A very small percentage actually stays there for a long time. You can also try to disprove those assertions if you want. I'm just recalling here what I read a while ago.
We have a population of 21 million, of which about 1 million are British. You have a population of 60 million, of which 300, 000 are Australians. And those 300, 000 will be back soon. Are you getting my point yet?
You also mentioned that you are here to help us with our social skills. Do you mean the social skill of being able to offend vast amounts of the world's population and render yourself one of the most unpopular nations in the world? It's no secret that the UK is very unloved in many many countries.
The English tend to say ' oh, that's our history, people don't like us because of our history '.
I doubt that is the case. There is something very unattractive in the English character that rubs people up the wrong way. I suspect it has something to do with the whole ' we are cleverer than you' mode of argument that you yourself have resorted to Sarge.
Maybe it is because you are from such a class ridden country, that when you are in a quarrel, you immediately resort to the same kind of thing you do with each other in England: I am more educated, more sophisticated, have a greater import in the world, a greater background than you. It may work in the UK but people from most other places just think ' what a wanker'.
For all the things Britain have done in Europe in the last hundred or so years, the continental Europeans have a real resistance to actually acknowledging it. They all seem to acknowledge America's role in saving them, but not that of Britain. I often wondered why this was so. After some time it became obvious that there is a deep-seated dislike of the English in Europe.
They are obviously polite and friendly enough when you are there, but if you ask a few probing questions of an Italian, Spaniard or Frenchman, you get more or less the same kind of response: the English are particular, the English are difficult people, etc.
They can't vocalize it 100% correctly in English, but what they seem to be getting at is the same thing I have described here: the English attitude of being somehow better. What's laughable about this whole thing is that you are so obviously not better, but in fact, in many ways, very inferior, but when annoyed, you all insist on taking this attitude nonetheless.
In an argument with a Frenchman or an Italian, they will never resort to any of this tripe that you dish up. They say ' oh, Australia is a new country, or Canada or America is a new country ' and leave it at that.
I guess they see the illogicality of comparing the the achievements of a country that is 1000 years old with the achievements of a country that in Australia's case has been a self governing entity since 1901, being a British colony before that; while England has been around for 1000 years. So why do English people insist on raising their superior history in every confrontation with an Australian, American or Canadian?
The Italians have a better history than you but they don't it. The French have an arguably more dramatic, exciting history than you, and neither do they do it. And what those countries have also managed to do in their long histories has been to invent superb cuisines, exquisite architecture, and great fashion, all of which England has failed to do. England's architecture is largely grim, excepting some parts of London, and your achievements in fashion and food are really poor compared to the countries I've just mentioned.
It is funny that you mention Australia's lack of indigenous cuisine as proof of our inferiority, when what we have was inherited from you. But yes, you are right, we don't have a world beating homegrown cuisine, but nor do you. But what we have in the way of an eating out culture is far superior to what you have in the UK.
If you are wealthy then yes, London has more 5 star restaurants than anywhere in Australia. But for the vast majority of people they are forced to do with fry-ups in crappy cafes, or only Indian food - nice though it is.
You have nowhere near the amount or range of good, cheap, accessible restaurants of different types that we do. I think the word accessible is a good one in this regard. In Britain there are excellent schools and excellent restaurants, but they are just not accessible to most people, hence the inferiority and lack of quality of everything below that top, thin, upper-class level.
Your other social skill, as I mentioned before, is binge drinking on a truly majestic scale. We also binge drink, but our levels of alcohol abuse, bad though they are, don't really register when looked at next to yours.
I don't really need to the OECD to confirm what anybody who goes out at night in the UK can see with their own eyes: total yobs running amok, drunken women screaming and vomiting in the gutters, people being beaten up for no reason. It's gruesome. God help us that we don't become like that. Yes, I know, a bit of that goes on here, but it really genuinely is not as totally out of control as where you come from, and really not on the same monumental scale.
I am always perplexed when a Brit refers to Australians as uncouth, beer swilling people. It is another thing that is simply just not true. We don't drink as much as you at all. I really wonder why you all insist on pulling out these myths so frequently. You people are the beer swilling yobs, not us.
We also don't invade small towns in Europe for football matches pissed out of our brains. We don't behave like you people do on Spanish beaches or on Greek Islands. We basically don't have that drunken pack mentality that you all do. 'We're all pissed, all 500 of us, and we're English' - Engerland Engerland. That kind of mindless stuff you all do so well. You really should be ashamed of that. It really is worthy of great shame.
Anyway, I guess this should give you something to stew over Sarge. You can think of a devastating reply to this post if you like, and also spend your time scouring other forums to find references to Australia so you can whip off a quick barb to get revenge for whatever is eating you up.
I think the essence of many conflicts between Australians and the English, is that we simply don't rate you. We look at you, at your posturing, your sneering, your poison little jibes, at your claims to being more cultured and educated, and think ' well, they do have a better history than us, but the rest is pretty laughable'. Maybe this hurts you all: not being rated as much as you think you deserve. It's not just us either, Americans and Canadians don't rate you much either.
You have to face up to what your country is now. Not what it was in the past. Now, in 2008, your country is a crappy little place, and Australia is just much better. I guess that hurts.
Bye Sarges.
Your choice of words throughout all your posts make it plain as day you are British Sarges: wot, chavvy, motor, etc. Only the British use these words. I would guess you're English!!
And I guess you're trying to hide that fact to appear unbiased in your criticisms, to make it look like it isn't an Australia versus England thing, but just the observations of a ' highly educated international businessman' haha, like yourself. You're probably a fat English bloke sitting at your PC, with a can of Tenants in your hand, pouring scorn on all things Australian in lots of forums all over the net.
If you feel it necessary to use an apple forum to express your bitterness with Australia ( probably because of being refused a visa as I mentioned before, or possibly because you are upset by the fact that in your dealings with Australians, you've noticed we don't particularly rate you ) then you are really pretty sad.
Anyway, in answer to your claim about Australians not being as educated as other nations, and needing high flyers like yourself to get along in the world, I?ve found a gem of a piece of evidence to contradict you, and from the BBC too no less.
The original source of the figures quoted in the BBC article are from the OECD, which would make the results pretty difficult to discount I'd imagine, seeing as the OECD has no agenda or bias, but is purely concerned with straight ahead statistical analysis of many countries. Furthermore, considering you are British - regardless of your unwillingness to own up -then we can look at the figures as an Australia versus Britain thing if you want.
The link is below, but just for your information, I'll paraphrase it here. It states three quarters of young people in Australia are tertiary educated compared with about 50% in the UK.
So the following statement is totally accurate: Australia is a more educated country than the UK. Haha.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/6999182.stm
And apart from a higher percentage of Australians with a tertiary education, it seems our young people also receive a better education than those in the UK . Again, to paraphrase the following article from the BBC, it states that in a recent OECD study of the education stadards in many countries, the UK's results were behind Australia's by some measure. Here's the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7115692.stm
I wonder why English people always tend to disparage other countries education systems when they arrive as immigrants, as if they are reluctantly letting their children go down scale. I've heard it many times ' oh, we like the sun, but we're worried little Nigel's educations will suffer'.
While Australia is not perfect, it's generally pretty good; one of the world's better places to get an education, and it is obviously better than in your country - at least the OECD seems to think so. So little Nigel will actually be better off here in Australia than in the UK. He will most probably go to University as well. I think quite a few English people in their less nationalistic moments acknowledge this.
So this fallacy about you being from a more educated country than Australia can be put to bed. It's wrong. Not true!!
Regarding the fact that Australia is desperate for educated immigrants, I'd say yes, you are right. That's because we have the lowest level of unemployment for 33 years, and there are still new jobs being created by a booming economy, which we don't have the people to fill. Hence we look abroad.
We could go to the US to entice people to come here, or Canada, but I imagine our government would find it harder to get people from there, as it's pretty nice in those two countries, so we go to the UK. Not much effort required and you get a HUGE result. People seem to be dying to leave the place. Like yourself!!
Here is an article about it. One of many I found in a couple of minutes on Google. You're all basically leaving!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-UK-soars.html
In the UK there are 300, 000 Australians, 25% of which are back packers who stay less than a year. The rest work in London and travel in Europe for about two or three years and then come home. A very small percentage actually stays there for a long time. You can also try to disprove those assertions if you want. I'm just recalling here what I read a while ago.
We have a population of 21 million, of which about 1 million are British. You have a population of 60 million, of which 300, 000 are Australians. And those 300, 000 will be back soon. Are you getting my point yet?
You also mentioned that you are here to help us with our social skills. Do you mean the social skill of being able to offend vast amounts of the world's population and render yourself one of the most unpopular nations in the world? It's no secret that the UK is very unloved in many many countries.
The English tend to say ' oh, that's our history, people don't like us because of our history '.
I doubt that is the case. There is something very unattractive in the English character that rubs people up the wrong way. I suspect it has something to do with the whole ' we are cleverer than you' mode of argument that you yourself have resorted to Sarge.
Maybe it is because you are from such a class ridden country, that when you are in a quarrel, you immediately resort to the same kind of thing you do with each other in England: I am more educated, more sophisticated, have a greater import in the world, a greater background than you. It may work in the UK but people from most other places just think ' what a wanker'.
For all the things Britain have done in Europe in the last hundred or so years, the continental Europeans have a real resistance to actually acknowledging it. They all seem to acknowledge America's role in saving them, but not that of Britain. I often wondered why this was so. After some time it became obvious that there is a deep-seated dislike of the English in Europe.
They are obviously polite and friendly enough when you are there, but if you ask a few probing questions of an Italian, Spaniard or Frenchman, you get more or less the same kind of response: the English are particular, the English are difficult people, etc.
They can't vocalize it 100% correctly in English, but what they seem to be getting at is the same thing I have described here: the English attitude of being somehow better. What's laughable about this whole thing is that you are so obviously not better, but in fact, in many ways, very inferior, but when annoyed, you all insist on taking this attitude nonetheless.
In an argument with a Frenchman or an Italian, they will never resort to any of this tripe that you dish up. They say ' oh, Australia is a new country, or Canada or America is a new country ' and leave it at that.
I guess they see the illogicality of comparing the the achievements of a country that is 1000 years old with the achievements of a country that in Australia's case has been a self governing entity since 1901, being a British colony before that; while England has been around for 1000 years. So why do English people insist on raising their superior history in every confrontation with an Australian, American or Canadian?
The Italians have a better history than you but they don't it. The French have an arguably more dramatic, exciting history than you, and neither do they do it. And what those countries have also managed to do in their long histories has been to invent superb cuisines, exquisite architecture, and great fashion, all of which England has failed to do. England's architecture is largely grim, excepting some parts of London, and your achievements in fashion and food are really poor compared to the countries I've just mentioned.
It is funny that you mention Australia's lack of indigenous cuisine as proof of our inferiority, when what we have was inherited from you. But yes, you are right, we don't have a world beating homegrown cuisine, but nor do you. But what we have in the way of an eating out culture is far superior to what you have in the UK.
If you are wealthy then yes, London has more 5 star restaurants than anywhere in Australia. But for the vast majority of people they are forced to do with fry-ups in crappy cafes, or only Indian food - nice though it is.
You have nowhere near the amount or range of good, cheap, accessible restaurants of different types that we do. I think the word accessible is a good one in this regard. In Britain there are excellent schools and excellent restaurants, but they are just not accessible to most people, hence the inferiority and lack of quality of everything below that top, thin, upper-class level.
Your other social skill, as I mentioned before, is binge drinking on a truly majestic scale. We also binge drink, but our levels of alcohol abuse, bad though they are, don't really register when looked at next to yours.
I don't really need to the OECD to confirm what anybody who goes out at night in the UK can see with their own eyes: total yobs running amok, drunken women screaming and vomiting in the gutters, people being beaten up for no reason. It's gruesome. God help us that we don't become like that. Yes, I know, a bit of that goes on here, but it really genuinely is not as totally out of control as where you come from, and really not on the same monumental scale.
I am always perplexed when a Brit refers to Australians as uncouth, beer swilling people. It is another thing that is simply just not true. We don't drink as much as you at all. I really wonder why you all insist on pulling out these myths so frequently. You people are the beer swilling yobs, not us.
We also don't invade small towns in Europe for football matches pissed out of our brains. We don't behave like you people do on Spanish beaches or on Greek Islands. We basically don't have that drunken pack mentality that you all do. 'We're all pissed, all 500 of us, and we're English' - Engerland Engerland. That kind of mindless stuff you all do so well. You really should be ashamed of that. It really is worthy of great shame.
Anyway, I guess this should give you something to stew over Sarge. You can think of a devastating reply to this post if you like, and also spend your time scouring other forums to find references to Australia so you can whip off a quick barb to get revenge for whatever is eating you up.
I think the essence of many conflicts between Australians and the English, is that we simply don't rate you. We look at you, at your posturing, your sneering, your poison little jibes, at your claims to being more cultured and educated, and think ' well, they do have a better history than us, but the rest is pretty laughable'. Maybe this hurts you all: not being rated as much as you think you deserve. It's not just us either, Americans and Canadians don't rate you much either.
You have to face up to what your country is now. Not what it was in the past. Now, in 2008, your country is a crappy little place, and Australia is just much better. I guess that hurts.
Bye Sarges.
Using typically English words doesn?t make you a British national other than demonstrating that one has lived, learnt the language in that country. But you?ve chosen to convince yourself otherwise, I guess ?cuz it gave you an opportunity to vent your frustration at being made feel an uncouth bonehead (an aussie stereotype) everytime you travelled to Europe and to a lesser extent to USA. You mentioned in your earlier post that you lived in Britain, an area where all aussies concentrate on is Earls? Court, London. How fitting! A ghetto for low lifers, drug dealers, cheap & nasty trollops, UB scroungers and hardly any coherent English spoken there. Betcha you felt right back home there. If you used Kensington & Chelsea borough as an example of (some) cultured people living in a defined area, than it really shows that you haven?t got the foggiest idea how the British society works and its class system.
Unlike you I don?t spend days on end researching online to find a chink in the armor of another country education system. The fact of the matter is that Australia desperately needs professional, university educated people to fill in gaps in the job markets. We?re not talking about general low grade labourers (like your good self), but professions like doctors, engineers, architectures etc... Every year the Australian government set stalls at international job fairs to attract those people, in their several thousands, giving them extended business visas and other financial incentives. That?s a fact, just check your own government?s website. Conversely in Europe we have a highly educated population, an excess of laureates who struggle in the highly competitive job market, a good number of them choose to find employment abroad in developing countries (like Australia) where there is a demand for their skills. What is needed in Europe is a number of low grade general labourers (like your good self) to do those jobs we consider demeaning and are lowly paid.
It kinda ironic your remarks about my posts here, while you up to date have only 3 posts and 2 of them are about Australia. Pot calling the kettle black? but then again sense of humour is an unknown concept in the land of gormless convicts and human rejects. One thing that you notice immediately in OZ is how self conscious people are of their origins, one could cut with a knife the tick, massive sense of inferiority complex. A not totally unjustified feeling, I must add. The more sensitive ones are those of European background (not British), whose parents came to OZ in cargo ships holding cartoon suitcases and with a history of abject poverty and illiterates in their native countries. Those 2nd wave of European immigrants had to find battles to live alongside with the British convict criminals? offsprings who initially stormed the land, a century earlier. No wonder why this is a wretched society, given that the overwhelming majority of Australians have such background.
What do you expect?