You seem just as astounded as Americans are to learn that the rest of the world doesn't pay for incoming calls, but you are right.
What is the biggest joke is that you also pay for incoming text messages! Even when I'm roaming, I don't pay for that. I still don't know what stops people from using an online SMS sending service to send 1000 text messages to someone they don't like, which they'll have to pay 25c each for after their free messages run out.
If you have a spam problem, call the carrier and they will adjust your bill for you.
We don't ever see big headlines on the internet about such problems in the US --- so it is not a real life issue at all.
It doesn't matter whether you pay for incoming calls or not --- it only matters that consumers get lower overall out-of-pocket charges at the end. It is very easy to compare US rates --- that's a good thing for consumers. Basically all the plans have some sort of unlimited on net mobile to mobile minutes, and some sort of unlimited weeknights/weekends --- and Americans don't differentiate whether you are calling a mobile phone or a landline phone and they don't differentiate whether you are calling or receiving.
For consumers --- you only need 2 things: (1) enough competitors in the market and (2) clear pricing standards.
It appears that no matter what country the iPhone is offered in, you need to have a lawyer's eye to spot where you're being shafted. And make no mistake, everyone of them shafts you somewhere (no SMS, 50-cents a minute calling, no voicemail, huge early cancellation fee, etc.)
I guess this is what happens when they know they've got a product we're all going to fawn over. As huge an Apple fan as I am, I really can't wait until the competitors catch up so that there's some competition-induced rationality brought to bear on these plans.
Except, unbelievably, in the UK. One up-front fee for the iPhone on low monthly tariff plans, then a very average-for-the-UK monthly plan with unlimited data and many many more minutes and texts than any other country reviewed so far.
I can't believe it myself. Fine, total cost of ownership may be high (due to conversion rates) but locally, the deals are pretty good.
And to continue a point raised above by other posters - we don't pay for anything incoming over here either. Only outgoing calls and texts. So if my mum calls my mobile from her landline, we get very cheap calls indeed and I don't use up any of my minutes.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
well, you all fail to mention that the caller in europe pays alot of money per minute for the honor of calling a cell phone even if the person is just around the corner. this can be anything from a few cents to 20 or more per minute, way more than int. calls, so where is the benefit?? customers in the u.s. can chose a plan and/or carrier with free incoming minutes if this is an issue.
And in relation to someone else's post: do Americans pay to _receive_ calls? I mean, if I'm overseas with international roaming I have to pay a roaming fee to receive calls. That seems fair enough, because I'm piggybacking off another network. But when you're on your home network? WTF?
Yep, and no one over here has any problem with it because we typically get bundles of minutes that are far far far larger than the rest of the countries that don't work that way.
Both systems work fine, and both systems sound totally stupid to people using the other system. No need for "WTF."
And make no mistake, everyone of them shafts you somewhere (no SMS, 50-cents a minute calling, no voicemail, huge early cancellation fee, etc.)
Especially all those employees browsing the internet and posting comments on message boards to stories they read on the company dime complaining about how greedy companies shaft the little guy.
Of course, I'm sure none of that describes the posters here at AppleInsider!
well, you all fail to mention that the caller in europe pays alot of money per minute for the honor of calling a cell phone even if the person is just around the corner. this can be anything from a few cents to 20 or more per minute, way more than int. calls, so where is the benefit?? customers in the u.s. can chose a plan and/or carrier with free incoming minutes if this is an issue.
Exactly.
Look, people. In the US, all local calls you make from a land line are 100% totally free. So if you call a cell phone and the cell user does not pay for an incoming call, then NO ONE pays for that call. In the US, land line users pay to make calls, and pay differently depending on how much the recipient is paying (IE pay differently if they are calling a cell phone or a land line, from what I understand).
So, the bottom line is, total cost is all that matters. SOMEONE will be paying for the call, whether it's the maker or the sender. **NO** it does not make more sense to do it one way or the other, in the end people in the US get TONS of minutes for what they pay - we look at European cell phone rate plans and they don't make any sense. $50 a month and you get 150 minutes? How could that possibly work? And everyone else looks at our plans and says the same thing.
The fact is, everyone in the end pays about the same prices, governed generally by local cost of living and competition in the cell sector. The differences in who pays for calls and texts do not cause price differences.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
Unless you don't max out your call here in the US with AT&T and the "rollover" unused minutes carry over to the next month and build up well over what anyone would ever need.
Unless you don't max out your call here in the US with AT&T and the "rollover" unused minutes carry over to the next month and build up well over what anyone would ever need.
i got the 'contract-less' iphone deal with only 200 minutes a month, and guess what? as i only use the phone to actually convey a message or get calls with some actual information i NEVER use up my minutes. in fact i usually have around $50-$70 in credit on my line.
for endless chit chatting i have 2 broadvoice lines at home, with which i can call most of the world unlimited for a flat fee of $30 per month/line. broadvoice is a much better deal than vonage....
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
It is highly more likely that Europe is going to adopt the US system of charging than the other way around.
I moved from EU to california before cell phones took off. ( 12 years ago ) i pretty much grew up with US cell phone system. Now that i moved back to EU i cant grasp what moron came up with this EU plan.
This plan and that plan and so many minutes inside network and so many minutes outside the network and weekend , 7pm , 7am and ...... wtf is going on ? just gimmie 400 minutes for 40eurros ( incomming and outgoing ) and leave me the fuk alone with other nonsense.
Oh well , at least i'm not with Verizon , that network in SoCal was dropping calls like flies.
You seem just as astounded as Americans are to learn that the rest of the world doesn't pay for incoming calls, but you are right.
What is the biggest joke is that you also pay for incoming text messages! You don't even have a choice whether to receive them, unlike picking up the phone. Even when I'm roaming, I don't pay for that. I still don't know what stops people from using an online SMS sending service to send 1000 text messages to someone they don't like, which they'll have to pay 25c each for after their free messages run out.
Would be great if an American could confirm this though - the fact that you do indeed pay for incoming texts.
And it keeps getting worse. Not too long ago, Verizon charged those who didn't have a text plan 10 cents for outgoing messages, and two cents (about 1p) for incoming ones. Now they charge you, get this, 15 cents coming or going. $5 a month gets you a bucket of a lot of text messages, can't remember if it's 250 or 500.
However there are loopholes on voice that other countries don't have. For example, all but one of my close relatives and all but one of my close out of town friends are on Verizon. I don't pay to call them. It's unlimited. Any time. Any place. Anywhere in the US I can get a CDMA signal at this point. They don't pay to call me. I don't pay to take their calls. We're all Verizon customers. And Verizon customers call each other for free as long as both ends of the call are in the US.
In practice, of my typical monthly usage of about 1,000 minutes, fewer than 100 are actually billable, and those fewer than 100 are the only calls that count against my 450 minute plan.
In a way it's quite ludicrous. The bandwidth on voice so exceeds text. And yet they so charge you for text.
I think it's part of a broader phenomenon in which hardly any American politician or business leader over the age of 50 understands the internet or indeed any kind of data transmission; they just understand fads and how much you can charge for them as long as they remain trendy.
I think it's part of a broader phenomenon in which hardly any American politician or business leader over the age of 50 understands the internet or indeed any kind of data transmission; they just understand fads and how much you can charge for them as long as they remain trendy.
They do understand --- that's why the US use zero termination rate for mobile phone usage.
The internet also uses zero termination rate --- the server side pay for their end of the bandwidth and you the end user pay for your end of the bandwidth. The internet doesn't work on "free incoming" and charge a separate amount for uploading.
It is your carrier's business decision to charge you zero cent or 2 cent or 20 cents for each incoming or outgoing sms.
Comments
You seem just as astounded as Americans are to learn that the rest of the world doesn't pay for incoming calls, but you are right.
What is the biggest joke is that you also pay for incoming text messages! Even when I'm roaming, I don't pay for that. I still don't know what stops people from using an online SMS sending service to send 1000 text messages to someone they don't like, which they'll have to pay 25c each for after their free messages run out.
If you have a spam problem, call the carrier and they will adjust your bill for you.
We don't ever see big headlines on the internet about such problems in the US --- so it is not a real life issue at all.
It doesn't matter whether you pay for incoming calls or not --- it only matters that consumers get lower overall out-of-pocket charges at the end. It is very easy to compare US rates --- that's a good thing for consumers. Basically all the plans have some sort of unlimited on net mobile to mobile minutes, and some sort of unlimited weeknights/weekends --- and Americans don't differentiate whether you are calling a mobile phone or a landline phone and they don't differentiate whether you are calling or receiving.
For consumers --- you only need 2 things: (1) enough competitors in the market and (2) clear pricing standards.
It appears that no matter what country the iPhone is offered in, you need to have a lawyer's eye to spot where you're being shafted. And make no mistake, everyone of them shafts you somewhere (no SMS, 50-cents a minute calling, no voicemail, huge early cancellation fee, etc.)
I guess this is what happens when they know they've got a product we're all going to fawn over. As huge an Apple fan as I am, I really can't wait until the competitors catch up so that there's some competition-induced rationality brought to bear on these plans.
Except, unbelievably, in the UK. One up-front fee for the iPhone on low monthly tariff plans, then a very average-for-the-UK monthly plan with unlimited data and many many more minutes and texts than any other country reviewed so far.
I can't believe it myself. Fine, total cost of ownership may be high (due to conversion rates) but locally, the deals are pretty good.
And to continue a point raised above by other posters - we don't pay for anything incoming over here either. Only outgoing calls and texts. So if my mum calls my mobile from her landline, we get very cheap calls indeed and I don't use up any of my minutes.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
well, you all fail to mention that the caller in europe pays alot of money per minute for the honor of calling a cell phone even if the person is just around the corner. this can be anything from a few cents to 20 or more per minute, way more than int. calls, so where is the benefit?? customers in the u.s. can chose a plan and/or carrier with free incoming minutes if this is an issue.
And in relation to someone else's post: do Americans pay to _receive_ calls? I mean, if I'm overseas with international roaming I have to pay a roaming fee to receive calls. That seems fair enough, because I'm piggybacking off another network. But when you're on your home network? WTF?
Yep, and no one over here has any problem with it because we typically get bundles of minutes that are far far far larger than the rest of the countries that don't work that way.
Both systems work fine, and both systems sound totally stupid to people using the other system. No need for "WTF."
Would be great if an American could confirm this though - the fact that you do indeed pay for incoming texts.
Sure, but it's no big deal. Again, we tend to get bigger bundles of txts which make it all work out the same.
And make no mistake, everyone of them shafts you somewhere (no SMS, 50-cents a minute calling, no voicemail, huge early cancellation fee, etc.)
Especially all those employees browsing the internet and posting comments on message boards to stories they read on the company dime complaining about how greedy companies shaft the little guy.
Of course, I'm sure none of that describes the posters here at AppleInsider!
well, you all fail to mention that the caller in europe pays alot of money per minute for the honor of calling a cell phone even if the person is just around the corner. this can be anything from a few cents to 20 or more per minute, way more than int. calls, so where is the benefit?? customers in the u.s. can chose a plan and/or carrier with free incoming minutes if this is an issue.
Exactly.
Look, people. In the US, all local calls you make from a land line are 100% totally free. So if you call a cell phone and the cell user does not pay for an incoming call, then NO ONE pays for that call. In the US, land line users pay to make calls, and pay differently depending on how much the recipient is paying (IE pay differently if they are calling a cell phone or a land line, from what I understand).
So, the bottom line is, total cost is all that matters. SOMEONE will be paying for the call, whether it's the maker or the sender. **NO** it does not make more sense to do it one way or the other, in the end people in the US get TONS of minutes for what they pay - we look at European cell phone rate plans and they don't make any sense. $50 a month and you get 150 minutes? How could that possibly work? And everyone else looks at our plans and says the same thing.
The fact is, everyone in the end pays about the same prices, governed generally by local cost of living and competition in the cell sector. The differences in who pays for calls and texts do not cause price differences.
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
Unless you don't max out your call here in the US with AT&T and the "rollover" unused minutes carry over to the next month and build up well over what anyone would ever need.
Unless you don't max out your call here in the US with AT&T and the "rollover" unused minutes carry over to the next month and build up well over what anyone would ever need.
i got the 'contract-less' iphone deal with only 200 minutes a month, and guess what? as i only use the phone to actually convey a message or get calls with some actual information i NEVER use up my minutes. in fact i usually have around $50-$70 in credit on my line.
for endless chit chatting i have 2 broadvoice lines at home, with which i can call most of the world unlimited for a flat fee of $30 per month/line. broadvoice is a much better deal than vonage....
I don't see why the US doesn't adopt the 'caller pays' model that the rest of the world uses. Makes much more sense. In reality your 500 inclusive minutes will get eaten up much more quickly than mine.
It is highly more likely that Europe is going to adopt the US system of charging than the other way around.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ive-calls.html
The average American mobile phone user talks about 800 minutes a month on the cell phone. The average Brit talks about 150-200 minutes a month.
Europe likes to talk about how they are moving from landlines to mobile phones --- but if nobody talks on the mobile phone, then what's the benefit.
This plan and that plan and so many minutes inside network and so many minutes outside the network and weekend , 7pm , 7am and ...... wtf is going on ? just gimmie 400 minutes for 40eurros ( incomming and outgoing ) and leave me the fuk alone with other nonsense.
Oh well , at least i'm not with Verizon , that network in SoCal was dropping calls like flies.
The big question that hasn't been asked or answered: Will it be locked?
$80 Aus for unlocking codes for the iphone from Optus.
You seem just as astounded as Americans are to learn that the rest of the world doesn't pay for incoming calls, but you are right.
What is the biggest joke is that you also pay for incoming text messages! You don't even have a choice whether to receive them, unlike picking up the phone. Even when I'm roaming, I don't pay for that. I still don't know what stops people from using an online SMS sending service to send 1000 text messages to someone they don't like, which they'll have to pay 25c each for after their free messages run out.
Would be great if an American could confirm this though - the fact that you do indeed pay for incoming texts.
And it keeps getting worse. Not too long ago, Verizon charged those who didn't have a text plan 10 cents for outgoing messages, and two cents (about 1p) for incoming ones. Now they charge you, get this, 15 cents coming or going. $5 a month gets you a bucket of a lot of text messages, can't remember if it's 250 or 500.
However there are loopholes on voice that other countries don't have. For example, all but one of my close relatives and all but one of my close out of town friends are on Verizon. I don't pay to call them. It's unlimited. Any time. Any place. Anywhere in the US I can get a CDMA signal at this point. They don't pay to call me. I don't pay to take their calls. We're all Verizon customers. And Verizon customers call each other for free as long as both ends of the call are in the US.
In practice, of my typical monthly usage of about 1,000 minutes, fewer than 100 are actually billable, and those fewer than 100 are the only calls that count against my 450 minute plan.
In a way it's quite ludicrous. The bandwidth on voice so exceeds text. And yet they so charge you for text.
I think it's part of a broader phenomenon in which hardly any American politician or business leader over the age of 50 understands the internet or indeed any kind of data transmission; they just understand fads and how much you can charge for them as long as they remain trendy.
$80 Aus for unlocking codes for the iphone from Optus.
Have you got a reference?
Is this for the iPhone. Have you got a reference?
I believe with Telstra you also get free Wi-Fi at their hotspots nationwide. Good deal?
I believe with Telstra you also get free Wi-Fi at their hotspots nationwide. Good deal?
I don't really care about the value, I'm just wondering if someone is selling the phone unlocked.
Have you got a reference?
Look under the fine print.
http://www.optusiphone.com.au/getdoc...d-pricing.aspx
I think it's part of a broader phenomenon in which hardly any American politician or business leader over the age of 50 understands the internet or indeed any kind of data transmission; they just understand fads and how much you can charge for them as long as they remain trendy.
They do understand --- that's why the US use zero termination rate for mobile phone usage.
The internet also uses zero termination rate --- the server side pay for their end of the bandwidth and you the end user pay for your end of the bandwidth. The internet doesn't work on "free incoming" and charge a separate amount for uploading.
It is your carrier's business decision to charge you zero cent or 2 cent or 20 cents for each incoming or outgoing sms.