How many reports and articles are written explaining how Apple usually bucks the overall market trends? How they can still gain market share (make money), even when the overall computer market is slumping? And yet we still have these buffoons downgrading Apple, because "of weak consumer spending". It amazes me, how they are able to manipulate the market in such a manner. Personally I could care less about stocks and the market, and would love to see Apple's stock completely collapse and Apple buy it all back and privatize itself. It has the cash to do it and have plenty leftover to sustain itself through a depression.
The biggest problem with privitization is that your taxes go up so I doubt Apple would do that.
- Is it illegal to be that stupid? Perhaps it should be, but legislating against low-IQ behavior might carry unintended consequences...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks
...
Free advice (that you're free to disregard): People will not be buying apple stock (or any other stock) until banks stop crashing. You will know that banks are in decent shape when the interbank rate resembles historic norms. Interbank rates will trend back to normal when US Treasury bonds start yielding a % even remotely close to the inflation rate (not cause-effect, but the two should trend together in some order). And none of this is happening right now. In fact, as of this morning they're all still heading in the other direction. <--- not to scare anyone, but we should all remember that this is a generational-level recession/correction, akin to a 100-year flood, and not a speedbump... people should invest accordingly.
Well said. Investing = risk. This ride is not over. And to think Congress has a 9% approval rating, assisted in getting us into this mess, and is now working to get us out of it by spending more of our money. It is time to rethink how well "We the People" are being represented.
Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.
Apple totally baffles the analysts because it just doesn't fit into their models. Is it a tech company ? A media company ? A mobile phone company ? A consumer electronics company ? A hardware company ? A software company ? A retailer ? A manufacturer ? An online retailer ?
The answer to all of those is 'Yes' - unlike any other company that exists. Therefore, Apple gets beat with the same stick that's beating every other stock in each of these markets. It's crazy.
With $21 billion sat in the bank I think Apple's looking pretty damned pretty right about now. I just hope that cash isn't sat in any of THESE banks' accounts....
They should absolutely not ban shorting stocks. The stock market needs to be able to react and trade in both up and down markets. Money always goes the most efficient route to gain profits and right now, those routes are leading away from the US.
Worse than that is to see stupid or ignorant people STILL voting for them in your next elections...
As for the U.S. crisis, it's just the beginning of the end for a diseased system; you guys really needed a shake-up to realize that the U.S. is a giant sinking ship, with no solidity whatsoever to finance its own debts.
The good thing for Bush et al is that countries haven't YET perceived that the dollar is a moribund and unsustainable currency, so you can still rely on some valuing movements here and there. Apple would be wise to prioritize other markets more and more in the future...
The U.S. is gonna recover ONLY if/when it finally and humbly realizes that it's in dire need of a helping hand from the rest of the world.
No more unipolar world, folks...not even in military terms.
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?
What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...
Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.
People who do not understand economics should not talk like this.
If you banned short selling, the market would cease to function. If you don't understand why, go read a book. You can start with A Random Walk Down Wall Street.
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
This stinks of ignorance and shouldn't even be here. Apples stock going down has little to do with partisan politics, but hey, you have an internet connection and anonymity, so I guess you have the right to spew any ol' verbal diarrhea you feel like \
Here's a link to a post ("Apple Revisited: How Technical Analysis Can Help Fundamental Investors") by a blogger, Andy Cole, on the Seeking Alpha site on why Apple's price is now attractive. (He was bearish on Apple at $162):
Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.
You don't quite understand how stock repurchases work.
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
Apple is surrounded by hysteria. Every news item is either proclaimed the greatest advance in human history or as a total disaster. Everything is blown out of proportion. That's why APPL's stock is so volitile.
That and under jobs every product tends to be either a giant hit or a huge disaster. Not much room in between.
"She now expects December quarter per-share earnings to decline 8 percent year-over-year, compared to the 29 percent growth witnessed during the June quarter."
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
Sorry Frankie, you have the wrong party to blame. Democrats are the party of the "little guy" remember? At least that's what they've been telling us for years anyway. And you do realize Al Gore is on the board of directors at Apple right?
I have to say I love the stock market, and wish I was in there now, but with no short side (they banned short selling in Aus becuase they (rightly) worried people in the US would be looking for a hedge) there's no point.
Banning short selling is just stupid. Instead we'll have a long grind down as people hope it will come back up but it keeps going down. Then people will panic. The speculators will stay on the sidelines because they can't hedge any of their (high risk) trades properly. There will be a capitulation because there always is, but it will be more painful. Think pulling off an infected band-aid slowly.
It's the 29th of September. Wednesday is the 1st of October. Don't say investors aren't superstitious. But keep in mind that the market turns at the point of maximum pessimism and maximum optimism. When people believe that the market will never go up again, that the financial system is totally fucked and that they would never put money into stocks, that is the time to buy. We can't be that far off. Meanwhile, people who are long (and lets face it that's everyone who is playing). I hope you have a strong stomach.
So they say the consumer environment isn't good but they haven't based it on any REAL numbers from Apple. Considering the number of people I know that have bought Macs, iPods and iPhones I don't think the average Mac consumer is as affected by this than the likes of Dell and HP. Of course when Apple has their conference call and report great growth and increase revenue, again, I'm sure they'll all just say "Oh they can't do it again" and drive the price down some more. I just love the fact that we live in a hear-say based investment environment rather than a merit and numbers based environment (rolls eyes).
You miss the point.
For growth in unit sales Apple is dependent on PC switchers - the existing user base is a replacement, no growth market. It is these same switchers who are going to be most price sensitive - that's one of the reasons they bought an inexpensive PC in the first place.
So Apple loses new sales while simultaneously bleeding margin.
That's why the stock has so much further downside. The post conference call reaction will be just like the broader market spikes resulting from multiple taxpayer bailouts. After a day or two of euphoria/speculation/short covering they are history and the poor macro environment reasserts itself. A great company like Apple in an economy heading for depression equates to a bad stock. Fundamentals are not a meaningful metric in such an environment - macro factors dominate. Plus, of course, there's the key variable that we dare not discuss - the rock-star CEO's possibly failing health.
Funny how she mentioned sub-$1,000 just as rumors about a possible new notebook refresh and possible desktop with price cuts. which will bring the MacBook basic configuration below $1,000. Beside, Apple already have sub-$1,000 computer called Mac Mini but I guess cheap computers should also be ugly and noisy to qualify as cheap.
I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.
Quite the gamble really. If a person buys stock today at a seriously under-valued $100 or so price, and then *if* Apple comes out with the new mystery device that conquers that market segment in early October, then it's huge profit for anyone who took the risk.
If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.
Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president
So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president
Logic doesn't apply well in political threads - just FYI
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?
What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...
While the $50B we spend on non-military aid to other countries isn't small potatoes, it kind of pales in comparison to the rest of the budget.
And it's true that Clinton initiated a huge wave of home ownership. I bought my first house through an FHA loan under Clinton and it was a great opportunity. However, after 8 years of a Republican administration and mostly Republican House and Senate, it's hard to blame the current meltdown on a 10-year-old initiative by a previous administration. THAT is virtually the DEFINITION of political spin.
Comments
How many reports and articles are written explaining how Apple usually bucks the overall market trends? How they can still gain market share (make money), even when the overall computer market is slumping? And yet we still have these buffoons downgrading Apple, because "of weak consumer spending". It amazes me, how they are able to manipulate the market in such a manner. Personally I could care less about stocks and the market, and would love to see Apple's stock completely collapse and Apple buy it all back and privatize itself. It has the cash to do it and have plenty leftover to sustain itself through a depression.
The biggest problem with privitization is that your taxes go up so I doubt Apple would do that.
- Is it illegal to be that stupid? Perhaps it should be, but legislating against low-IQ behavior might carry unintended consequences...
...
Free advice (that you're free to disregard): People will not be buying apple stock (or any other stock) until banks stop crashing. You will know that banks are in decent shape when the interbank rate resembles historic norms. Interbank rates will trend back to normal when US Treasury bonds start yielding a % even remotely close to the inflation rate (not cause-effect, but the two should trend together in some order). And none of this is happening right now. In fact, as of this morning they're all still heading in the other direction. <--- not to scare anyone, but we should all remember that this is a generational-level recession/correction, akin to a 100-year flood, and not a speedbump... people should invest accordingly.
Well said. Investing = risk. This ride is not over. And to think Congress has a 9% approval rating, assisted in getting us into this mess, and is now working to get us out of it by spending more of our money. It is time to rethink how well "We the People" are being represented.
[/soapbox]
Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.
Apple totally baffles the analysts because it just doesn't fit into their models. Is it a tech company ? A media company ? A mobile phone company ? A consumer electronics company ? A hardware company ? A software company ? A retailer ? A manufacturer ? An online retailer ?
The answer to all of those is 'Yes' - unlike any other company that exists. Therefore, Apple gets beat with the same stick that's beating every other stock in each of these markets. It's crazy.
With $21 billion sat in the bank I think Apple's looking pretty damned pretty right about now. I just hope that cash isn't sat in any of THESE banks' accounts....
They should absolutely not ban shorting stocks. The stock market needs to be able to react and trade in both up and down markets. Money always goes the most efficient route to gain profits and right now, those routes are leading away from the US.
Worse than that is to see stupid or ignorant people STILL voting for them in your next elections...
As for the U.S. crisis, it's just the beginning of the end for a diseased system; you guys really needed a shake-up to realize that the U.S. is a giant sinking ship, with no solidity whatsoever to finance its own debts.
The good thing for Bush et al is that countries haven't YET perceived that the dollar is a moribund and unsustainable currency, so you can still rely on some valuing movements here and there. Apple would be wise to prioritize other markets more and more in the future...
The U.S. is gonna recover ONLY if/when it finally and humbly realizes that it's in dire need of a helping hand from the rest of the world.
No more unipolar world, folks...not even in military terms.
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt
Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?
What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...
Isn't it about time they banned short selling of ALL stocks ? These analysts suddenly predict lowered profits for a stock, lower their estimates, surprise surprise, the stock falls. Someone is making a killing here, and it stinks.
People who do not understand economics should not talk like this.
If you banned short selling, the market would cease to function. If you don't understand why, go read a book. You can start with A Random Walk Down Wall Street.
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
This stinks of ignorance and shouldn't even be here. Apples stock going down has little to do with partisan politics, but hey, you have an internet connection and anonymity, so I guess you have the right to spew any ol' verbal diarrhea you feel like
http://seekingalpha.com/article/9783...ntal-investors
Hmm, so Apple has $22b in the bank, and the share price is dropping to a very low point. If Apple believe in their future products and profitability, could we expect to see them buy up a lot of their own shares, especially if they tumble below $100? Then they can sell them in the future when they are $200+ again, and raise a metric buttload of cash.
You don't quite understand how stock repurchases work.
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt
Here's a recent article arguing the same case:
Another case of collusion? It's time to take a hard look Washington as well as Wall Street
By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...-CBC6C819F983}
Apple is surrounded by hysteria. Every news item is either proclaimed the greatest advance in human history or as a total disaster. Everything is blown out of proportion. That's why APPL's stock is so volitile.
That and under jobs every product tends to be either a giant hit or a huge disaster. Not much room in between.
This chick is delusional.
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
Sorry Frankie, you have the wrong party to blame. Democrats are the party of the "little guy" remember? At least that's what they've been telling us for years anyway. And you do realize Al Gore is on the board of directors at Apple right?
Banning short selling is just stupid. Instead we'll have a long grind down as people hope it will come back up but it keeps going down. Then people will panic. The speculators will stay on the sidelines because they can't hedge any of their (high risk) trades properly. There will be a capitulation because there always is, but it will be more painful. Think pulling off an infected band-aid slowly.
It's the 29th of September. Wednesday is the 1st of October. Don't say investors aren't superstitious. But keep in mind that the market turns at the point of maximum pessimism and maximum optimism. When people believe that the market will never go up again, that the financial system is totally fucked and that they would never put money into stocks, that is the time to buy. We can't be that far off. Meanwhile, people who are long (and lets face it that's everyone who is playing). I hope you have a strong stomach.
Apple will bottom way under $100.
So they say the consumer environment isn't good but they haven't based it on any REAL numbers from Apple. Considering the number of people I know that have bought Macs, iPods and iPhones I don't think the average Mac consumer is as affected by this than the likes of Dell and HP. Of course when Apple has their conference call and report great growth and increase revenue, again, I'm sure they'll all just say "Oh they can't do it again" and drive the price down some more. I just love the fact that we live in a hear-say based investment environment rather than a merit and numbers based environment (rolls eyes).
You miss the point.
For growth in unit sales Apple is dependent on PC switchers - the existing user base is a replacement, no growth market. It is these same switchers who are going to be most price sensitive - that's one of the reasons they bought an inexpensive PC in the first place.
So Apple loses new sales while simultaneously bleeding margin.
That's why the stock has so much further downside. The post conference call reaction will be just like the broader market spikes resulting from multiple taxpayer bailouts. After a day or two of euphoria/speculation/short covering they are history and the poor macro environment reasserts itself. A great company like Apple in an economy heading for depression equates to a bad stock. Fundamentals are not a meaningful metric in such an environment - macro factors dominate. Plus, of course, there's the key variable that we dare not discuss - the rock-star CEO's possibly failing health.
Here's a recent article arguing the same case:
Another case of collusion? It's time to take a hard look Washington as well as Wall Street
By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...-CBC6C819F983}
So, basically, it is our obsession with being PC that has driven us down this path. Lovely...
Funny how she mentioned sub-$1,000 just as rumors about a possible new notebook refresh and possible desktop with price cuts. which will bring the MacBook basic configuration below $1,000. Beside, Apple already have sub-$1,000 computer called Mac Mini but I guess cheap computers should also be ugly and noisy to qualify as cheap.
I think she is referring to the sub $100 portable market, not desktops. It will seem silly however, if, as many pundits think, Apple has an answer to this market segment in the next event on October 14th or so.
Quite the gamble really.
If on the other hand the announcement is just about laptop refreshes that are slightly cheaper, then the stock will dive even further and it's a big loss (at least short term). Interesting days indeed.
Mr. Jobs has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to low priced computers, and Apple in general doesn't usually care what the rest of the market is doing or try to respond to market trends like the sub $100 net books, they just make what they make, knowing that if it's good it will sell. So it's entirely possible that Apple *doesn't* have a sub-100 answer in the works.
I thought Republicans were good at screwing the little guy and middle class but at least were good at big business...guess they aren't even good at that...
So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president
So maybe your stereotype needs readjusting...last two years democrats have controlled the Congress. And if you remember our civics, Congress controlls the spending, not the president
Logic doesn't apply well in political threads - just FYI
Actually it was Clinton that started this mess - I know that makes all of this "it's Bush's fault" thing not quite as good but we should really be after facts - not political spin...
http://www.huduser.org/publications/txt/hdbrf2.txt
Also, the US would be better off if we stopped giving the rest of the world our money but nobody talks about that... The only reason we'd need help is because we've insisted on helping the rest of the world... But I suppose helping the country that's helped the most is out of the question huh?
What about when the banks got together and bought tons of the EURO because it had fallen to 80 cents per USD but they sat idly by and didn't give a crap as the USD fell to less than 70 cents per EURO...
While the $50B we spend on non-military aid to other countries isn't small potatoes, it kind of pales in comparison to the rest of the budget.
And it's true that Clinton initiated a huge wave of home ownership. I bought my first house through an FHA loan under Clinton and it was a great opportunity. However, after 8 years of a Republican administration and mostly Republican House and Senate, it's hard to blame the current meltdown on a 10-year-old initiative by a previous administration. THAT is virtually the DEFINITION of political spin.