Finally, just because your musicians use the MB, it is not proof that all or even most musicians use it over the MBP.
No, it is not a proof, but you have to keep in mind that musicians is not the kind of people that would easily spend the amount of money required for a MBP. Especially if there is an option like the MB as we know it today.
Apple isn't about having those interchangeable systems as it weakens the case structure, thickens the case, and just causes too much complexity that few people use.
However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, could that taped up port near the front of the left size of the case be an easy access port to get into the internals? Getting access to the HDD, RAM, and optical drive for another HDD or battery? (I don't really believe this, but I'm trying to see this from the other side)
You know damn well that rabid Mac users will accept and defend whatever Apple does. So what's the harm if Apple makes a laptop with a modular drive bay? Mac users will just turn around and praise it like they do with everything else that Apple does:
There will be no video iPods.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Even those Mac users proclaiming the death of optical drives would still buy the new MacBooks, even though internal optical drives come standard in them. You know it's true.
So is this "Mini DisplayPort" an industry standard, or is it yet another result of Apple's obsession with proprietary display connectors?
Page 47 ("Signal Cable Assembly Sets"):
R&D Accomplishments
1/1/2008-3/31/2008
3) Developement to Apple's Mini Displayport
Looks like that answers all the questions. Folks, we aren't going to see a DVI port...nope, we will be seeing a Mini-Displayport. Now maybe at Macworld, SJ will be introducing new Cinema Displays featuring mini Displayport About time to upgrade them. Also, this report frequently brings up "Halogen free" cables for Apple mice, keyboards and powercords. Any thoughts, or is this just more of Al Gore getting his way?
As for optical I really hope they do not discard it on their mainstream laptops. While I think the MBA should not come with an optical drive leaving it off the MBs and MBPs would be a grave mistake. While many savvy users here can easily work around the loss of an optical drive I'm not sure the average consumer can. Besides when people compare features on Windows laptops vs. MBs and MBPs the lack of an optical drive combined with lower PC laptops prices will make the Apple laptops appear to be a very poor value.
Making the optical drive an external option would have the following effect on the specs:
- lower price
- lighter weight
- smaller footprint
- better battery life
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I don't think the current X3100 can do extended desktop, just mirroring....
I'm sending this from my MacBook Air connected to an external monitor in extended desktop mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I hope they redesign the MBA to have the battery bay accessible underneath with an option to ad up to at least 4GB of RAM).
Redesigning the MacBook Air's case to accommodate a more easily removable battery would require either making the battery smaller or making the MacBook Air thicker and heavier. I prefer the battery as is. I hope 4GB will soon be an option at purchase, but Apple will not add removable RAM to the MacBook Air.
Most of you writing here have only mentioned using video cameras with Firewire. Have you forgotten about backing up your internal boot drive to an external drive.
There are two types of computer users Those who have lost data and those who will.
USB 2.0 is so far inferior to Firewire when it comes to reading and writing data it becomes laughable when real life comparisons are made. Check out Barefeats comparison FW vs USB read write test http://www.barefeats.com/usb2
If Firewire is dropped completely from the Consumer laptops it simply means that Apple has investigated the usage of FireWire amongst average consumers and come to a conclusion that they don't use it. They use USB peripherals and USB drives.
Since FireWire fucked up with their inconsistency with port design lost a great deal of average consumers and peripherals to the USB side that has had the same port ever since its introduction. I prefer Firewire though, and I'm sad to see it's being neglected on both the Air and MacBooks. Since it's a must have for me. Bad Apple. Bad Firewire.
Q1) How many time have you used the Mini-DVI on their MacBooks?
4) Almost constantly when at home/school/elsewhere. - My macbook is my (Gasp!) work machine, I earn my living on it - So I plug my 19'' screen (+ ethernet, USB mouse and FW400 Time Machine disk) in every morning when I arrive at work. I also use the mini-DVI for connecting to beamers when giving presentations with keynote - essential for most college students, BTW
Q2) How many time have you used the DVD/CD on you MacBooks?
3) Every week or so. Mainly to import music from my cd collection.
Q3) How many time have you used the DVD/CD on you MacBooks to play movies music?
1) Never.
Q4) How do you feel about the CD/DVD drive becoming an external option?
1) That would be a great idea, until we can get rid of it altogether. Plus we would get faster read/write speeds from using thicker optical drives that aren't subject to the super-thin drives Apple uses.
what about the mac mini, mac pro, cinema displays, perhaps new keyboards, iLife 09, iWork'09, and they will have undoubtedly have some other product that we have no idea about. What about that mac tablet ? Plus how about the mystery 'product transition' that apple talked about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypres
Steve Jobs mentioned during Macworld 08 that Apple presented Macbook Air in the 2nd week and there are 50 more weeks ahead. Now that 2008 is ending and we have :
1) Macbook Air
2) iPhone 3G, iPhone 2.0, MobileMe
3) New Nano and iPod Touch 2.0
4) New Macbooks
I can't think of any more new products Apple can announce for Macworld.
Will it be a boring Macworld or will Apple make history again in January? I prefer the latter
does anyone know if there is such thing as wireless FW? if so, that may be what they are doing. Apple is a very practical company, they know what they're doing, and there is definetly a logical explanation for the missing firewire. Plus, keep in mind that those photos might be prototypes, or even fake. But just keep in mind that apple is a company- that many people call and most of us believe- that is 50 years ahead of the industry.
Most of you writing here have only mentioned using video cameras with Firewire. Have you forgotten about backing up your internal boot drive to an external drive.
Called Time Machine overnight via wireless to my Time Capsule or in a pinch via GigE...which should be as fast or faster than FW400 in the real world given there's nothing but the mac plugged in directly to the Time Capsule.
Quote:
USB 2.0 is so far inferior to Firewire when it comes to reading and writing data it becomes laughable when real life comparisons are made. Check out Barefeats comparison FW vs USB read write test http://www.barefeats.com/usb2
"One disappointment in this area: the performance of the Maxtor OneTouch’s FireWire 400 port actually lagged that of its USB port in the Duplicate File and Low Memory tests, which is atypical in a hard drive. Seagate, Maxtor’s parent company, attributes the test results to new Leopard drivers that have improved the transfer rate of USB 2.0."
Again, I would be fine with the abolishment of FW from Macbooks so long as they deal with the target disc mode / migration issue. Booting off of USB drives is NOT a problem any more.
Regarding video; well, it's the sign of the times, I suppose. I just put out an ad in Craigslist for my 5 year old Victor DV cam. While I won't be getting a dedicated video camera for a little while (if ever, the way things are looking on the DSLR front), most consumers will now go for, as they should, any number of the AVCHD video cams that use SDs and other flash media.
Apple will be fools fools fools it if they remove Firewire 400 from the MacBook Pro...
For the people who actually use the MacBook Pro because they are pro's (i.e. not fanboys who want the fastest. fanciest toys, but only check their Hotmail on it) it's a big problem...Pro HD video cameras, some pro D-SLRs, Motu audio interfaces...
If Firewire is dropped completely from the Consumer laptops it simply means that Apple has investigated the usage of FireWire amongst average consumers and come to a conclusion that they don't use it. They use USB peripherals and USB drives.
Quite so. But then Apple has to somehow keep the existing FW-bond functionality and ease of use of the Macintosh: target disk mode and easy account transfer between Macs. If they keep those, then any complain about data transfer performance at consumer level will look less important. Especially if the price is lower too.
But if removing FW means the two above are dead, and we are left with just USB for wired data transfer, then this would really be a big step back.
Well I record and play music almost every day and I'm not a pro (most people who play and record music are not).
The size and color issue is blown up out of proportion but the extra cost suddenly to buy a MBP is not.I live in europe So the prices surly differs from the US. but here the difference in price between a MB and a MBP is to big (there are a lot of interfaces that wont be discarded for a few years in the future that wont be connected to the next-gen Macbook).
I mean Most musicians I know use cheap but well functioning sound interfaces with firewire (as stated earlier in the thread USB just don't do recording as well as Firewire) on the cheapest 2GB computer possible that can run Logic Studio, Garage band and Reason and thats a MB. I think the first reason for mac being even more popular with musicians now is that you get a decent and easy to use audio recording/performing unit out of the box with garage band finally working sort of well (even if it still sometimes gets the hick ups if you are in a session with more then four or five audio tracks). Second thing is logic studio, you now can have full blown recording/arrangement/mastering/performing suit for a lot less than any other computer can if you buy a Mac. Third thing is that music stores actually are selling apple computers now and promote them to costumers a lot more then before (good work there apple).
Bottom line is that all the musicians I know and talk to would rather Spend the extra $500 or so on a new instrument, microphone or perhaps a multichannel firewire interface, not on a MBP with a lot of extra under the hood that they wont use.
Now even if I above argue that Firewire Is a big deal when it comes to audio recording and performing I don't say it's impossible or too painful without firewire. Apple needed the space/lower the cost or both on the MB and the logical thing to remove port vise would be the FW as it's not nearly as common in everyday use as the USB that is not a argument or a opinion, its a fact.
Cheers
Kristoffer
PS. sorry for the bad english but hey, it's a second language here.
So if I was stuck with only one FW800 port, I could daisy chain my drives off the one port if required, or maybe find a FW800 hub (Belkin supposedly makes one, but noone has in stock)
Comments
Finally, just because your musicians use the MB, it is not proof that all or even most musicians use it over the MBP.
No, it is not a proof, but you have to keep in mind that musicians is not the kind of people that would easily spend the amount of money required for a MBP. Especially if there is an option like the MB as we know it today.
Apple isn't about having those interchangeable systems as it weakens the case structure, thickens the case, and just causes too much complexity that few people use.
However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, could that taped up port near the front of the left size of the case be an easy access port to get into the internals? Getting access to the HDD, RAM, and optical drive for another HDD or battery? (I don't really believe this, but I'm trying to see this from the other side)
You know damn well that rabid Mac users will accept and defend whatever Apple does. So what's the harm if Apple makes a laptop with a modular drive bay? Mac users will just turn around and praise it like they do with everything else that Apple does:
There will be no video iPods.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Even those Mac users proclaiming the death of optical drives would still buy the new MacBooks, even though internal optical drives come standard in them. You know it's true.
So is this "Mini DisplayPort" an industry standard, or is it yet another result of Apple's obsession with proprietary display connectors?
Page 47 ("Signal Cable Assembly Sets"):
R&D Accomplishments
1/1/2008-3/31/2008
3) Developement to Apple's Mini Displayport
Looks like that answers all the questions. Folks, we aren't going to see a DVI port...nope, we will be seeing a Mini-Displayport. Now maybe at Macworld, SJ will be introducing new Cinema Displays featuring mini Displayport About time to upgrade them. Also, this report frequently brings up "Halogen free" cables for Apple mice, keyboards and powercords. Any thoughts, or is this just more of Al Gore getting his way?
As for optical I really hope they do not discard it on their mainstream laptops. While I think the MBA should not come with an optical drive leaving it off the MBs and MBPs would be a grave mistake. While many savvy users here can easily work around the loss of an optical drive I'm not sure the average consumer can. Besides when people compare features on Windows laptops vs. MBs and MBPs the lack of an optical drive combined with lower PC laptops prices will make the Apple laptops appear to be a very poor value.
Making the optical drive an external option would have the following effect on the specs:
- lower price
- lighter weight
- smaller footprint
- better battery life
I don't think the current X3100 can do extended desktop, just mirroring....
I'm sending this from my MacBook Air connected to an external monitor in extended desktop mode.
I hope they redesign the MBA to have the battery bay accessible underneath with an option to ad up to at least 4GB of RAM).
Redesigning the MacBook Air's case to accommodate a more easily removable battery would require either making the battery smaller or making the MacBook Air thicker and heavier. I prefer the battery as is. I hope 4GB will soon be an option at purchase, but Apple will not add removable RAM to the MacBook Air.
Apple is evolving backwards for some time, have you noticed?
NO BUY for the new MB if no FW ports. Period.
NO BUY for the new MB if no FW ports. Period.
I hear you, though there are some whispers about Firewire over Ethernet ports. No one knows though what Apple will do. Tomorrow is the day...
Most of you writing here have only mentioned using video cameras with Firewire. Have you forgotten about backing up your internal boot drive to an external drive.
There are two types of computer users Those who have lost data and those who will.
USB 2.0 is so far inferior to Firewire when it comes to reading and writing data it becomes laughable when real life comparisons are made. Check out Barefeats comparison FW vs USB read write test http://www.barefeats.com/usb2
Since FireWire fucked up with their inconsistency with port design lost a great deal of average consumers and peripherals to the USB side that has had the same port ever since its introduction. I prefer Firewire though, and I'm sad to see it's being neglected on both the Air and MacBooks. Since it's a must have for me. Bad Apple. Bad Firewire.
Jesus Christ!
There are more important things in the world.
You guys are talking like Apple just kidnapped your 5 years old daughter.
Q1) How many time have you used the Mini-DVI on their MacBooks? Q2) How many time have you used the DVD/CD on you MacBooks? Q3) How many time have you used the DVD/CD on you MacBooks to play movies music? Q4) How do you feel about the CD/DVD drive becoming an external option?
Steve Jobs mentioned during Macworld 08 that Apple presented Macbook Air in the 2nd week and there are 50 more weeks ahead. Now that 2008 is ending and we have :
1) Macbook Air
2) iPhone 3G, iPhone 2.0, MobileMe
3) New Nano and iPod Touch 2.0
4) New Macbooks
I can't think of any more new products Apple can announce for Macworld.
Will it be a boring Macworld or will Apple make history again in January? I prefer the latter
does anyone know if there is such thing as wireless FW? if so, that may be what they are doing. Apple is a very practical company, they know what they're doing, and there is definetly a logical explanation for the missing firewire. Plus, keep in mind that those photos might be prototypes, or even fake. But just keep in mind that apple is a company- that many people call and most of us believe- that is 50 years ahead of the industry.
The port you marked Firewire doesn't have the Firewire symbol on it, it has the display port symbol on it, unless my eyes are failing me.
I believe you're correct, which would require that to be a DisplayPort design and leaving the tape a greater mystery.
Very bad move if no Firewire on the MacBook.
Most of you writing here have only mentioned using video cameras with Firewire. Have you forgotten about backing up your internal boot drive to an external drive.
Called Time Machine overnight via wireless to my Time Capsule or in a pinch via GigE...which should be as fast or faster than FW400 in the real world given there's nothing but the mac plugged in directly to the Time Capsule.
USB 2.0 is so far inferior to Firewire when it comes to reading and writing data it becomes laughable when real life comparisons are made. Check out Barefeats comparison FW vs USB read write test http://www.barefeats.com/usb2
"One disappointment in this area: the performance of the Maxtor OneTouch’s FireWire 400 port actually lagged that of its USB port in the Duplicate File and Low Memory tests, which is atypical in a hard drive. Seagate, Maxtor’s parent company, attributes the test results to new Leopard drivers that have improved the transfer rate of USB 2.0."
http://www.macworld.com/article/1318...onetouch4.html
Don't assume that just because you have a FW drive that it works any faster than it would using USB2.
Again, I would be fine with the abolishment of FW from Macbooks so long as they deal with the target disc mode / migration issue. Booting off of USB drives is NOT a problem any more.
Regarding video; well, it's the sign of the times, I suppose. I just put out an ad in Craigslist for my 5 year old Victor DV cam. While I won't be getting a dedicated video camera for a little while (if ever, the way things are looking on the DSLR front), most consumers will now go for, as they should, any number of the AVCHD video cams that use SDs and other flash media.
Apple will be fools fools fools it if they remove Firewire 400 from the MacBook Pro...
For the people who actually use the MacBook Pro because they are pro's (i.e. not fanboys who want the fastest. fanciest toys, but only check their Hotmail on it) it's a big problem...Pro HD video cameras, some pro D-SLRs, Motu audio interfaces...
C'mon apple...don't be jokers. innit.
If Firewire is dropped completely from the Consumer laptops it simply means that Apple has investigated the usage of FireWire amongst average consumers and come to a conclusion that they don't use it. They use USB peripherals and USB drives.
Quite so. But then Apple has to somehow keep the existing FW-bond functionality and ease of use of the Macintosh: target disk mode and easy account transfer between Macs. If they keep those, then any complain about data transfer performance at consumer level will look less important. Especially if the price is lower too.
But if removing FW means the two above are dead, and we are left with just USB for wired data transfer, then this would really be a big step back.
The size and color issue is blown up out of proportion but the extra cost suddenly to buy a MBP is not.I live in europe So the prices surly differs from the US. but here the difference in price between a MB and a MBP is to big (there are a lot of interfaces that wont be discarded for a few years in the future that wont be connected to the next-gen Macbook).
I mean Most musicians I know use cheap but well functioning sound interfaces with firewire (as stated earlier in the thread USB just don't do recording as well as Firewire) on the cheapest 2GB computer possible that can run Logic Studio, Garage band and Reason and thats a MB. I think the first reason for mac being even more popular with musicians now is that you get a decent and easy to use audio recording/performing unit out of the box with garage band finally working sort of well (even if it still sometimes gets the hick ups if you are in a session with more then four or five audio tracks). Second thing is logic studio, you now can have full blown recording/arrangement/mastering/performing suit for a lot less than any other computer can if you buy a Mac. Third thing is that music stores actually are selling apple computers now and promote them to costumers a lot more then before (good work there apple).
Bottom line is that all the musicians I know and talk to would rather Spend the extra $500 or so on a new instrument, microphone or perhaps a multichannel firewire interface, not on a MBP with a lot of extra under the hood that they wont use.
Now even if I above argue that Firewire Is a big deal when it comes to audio recording and performing I don't say it's impossible or too painful without firewire. Apple needed the space/lower the cost or both on the MB and the logical thing to remove port vise would be the FW as it's not nearly as common in everyday use as the USB that is not a argument or a opinion, its a fact.
Cheers
Kristoffer
PS. sorry for the bad english but hey, it's a second language here.
I haven't seen any photos of a 17-inch MBP yet, I wonder if Apple will update it later on?
....
So if I was stuck with only one FW800 port, I could daisy chain my drives off the one port if required, or maybe find a FW800 hub (Belkin supposedly makes one, but noone has in stock)
....
Try this:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0203724
And what the heck in the taped up port hole and the round hoe to its left.
Is the taped up hole not for the Magsafe adaptor?