The first part makes no sense, the second part is anecdotal if true and hardly relevant, and the third part isn't true.
You're confusing Ives with Jobs.
You mean the guy who stood there with the lights on during the KEYNOTE afraid someone might steal a uni body and told them to hurry up as he eyed everyone Jobs?
I saw it as a way for the majority shareholders to get the cash out of the company for themselves, at the expense of smaller shareholders.
I wonder who the majority shareholders are ...
What? It's not as if those with fewer shares aren't getting any money. If it really reduced share value, bigger shareholders would be hurting themselves more than smaller ones. Dividends are given out based on your number of shares. If dividends are $1 / a share, someone holding ten shares gets $10, someone with a thousand shares get $1000. It's not like the big holder gets all the money and the small ones don't get any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
YZ Dock? I can't find any information in its heritage, does it really predate NextStep, the company that Apple bought which introduced the dock concept?
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
This is much more advanced and user friendly than Windows Restore. There is so much more going on with TM. BTW, I have had no issues with since the Leopard Betas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
You mean the guy who stood there with the lights on during the KEYNOTE afraid someone might steal a uni body and told them to hurry up as he eyed everyone Jobs?
hee hee
He was pretty anal about getting them back before proceeding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
YZ Dock? I can't find any information in its heritage, does it really predate NextStep, the company that Apple bought which introduced the dock concept
I think if anyone gets credit prior to NeXT, it's Acorn, but the Dock has come so far from what even NeXT had. As for Google, I don't even think they were even a company when the OS X was designed.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. A PC for example makes profit for both HP and Microsoft. A Mac makes profit only for Apple. (If you ignore Intel, Nvidia etc, as they make profit in both cases) Thus Microsoft is a software company and Apple is Hardware and Software in regards to Computers. I specifically stated that.
Microsoft did not do any comparison either, and neither did Analysts. Its fan driven website that is, and you are not comparing apples to apples (no pun intended). In fact its a stark reminder that the Mac is still way behind then it should be, and its the fact the iPhone and iPod are competively priced that they are doing so well.
A direct comparison of Zune vs iPod profits is welcome, and Apple obviously succeeds there. But a true comparison of the state of Microsoft would be a Windows vs OS X profits. Microsoft even beat analysts expectations, so its no suprise then that Apple had more profits as this has been expected based on analysts expectations on both sides. The whole spin has been as a failure when Microsoft and Vista is doing fine, and they are exceeding expectations with profits from Vista and Office. The ONLY reason Apple is up is do to the iPod and iPhone. I don't see how that threatens Windows, unless those users switch to Mac. Microsoft's core business is still Windows. While Apple has switched from being Apple Computer to Apple to focus on the iPod and iPhone.
Bull, Microsoft is always bringing up how irrelevant Apple is, so we have a right to compare them and last time I checked ipods have always been more expensive than the competition but yet they keep outselling them. What about iphones, they are more expensive than most phones but yet Apple manages to sell a lot of them.
Saw the title and knew interesting who had written this article. *yawn*
Who cares about Microsoft? They don't compete with Apple on any serious level. Why this obsession with them?
It's also worth pointing out that having massive stock piles of cash is generally considered a bad thing. It incurs massive opportunity costs and gives poor value of money to shareholders. That's why Microsoft got rid of their great swimming pool of cash.
I agree, people are always quick to say Microsoft are rubbish yet they have done a lot of good. Office is used by everyone not because there locked into using it, but because it was better than the rest early on and continues to.
Even now they are fixing the flaws with there main problems. Yes Vista doesn't run all your old programs and it wont run on all hardware but eventually your hardware will need to be replaced anyway (even with a Mac) and the restrictions on software has made more secure than a Mac! As for speed which someone else mentioned, Vista boots up faster on my iMac that OS X does. Apple goes on about how great it is to make the hardware and software but if thats the case how does an OS made be another company that has to support a lot lot lot more hardware configurations start faster than there's!!!
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
The 50 lb imac? Seriously? Genius?
Now a MB with no firewire (= no backup, no cam corder = a way to justify getting pro's to use macbook pro's and charging $10 grand for a piece of memory? Genius? Really?
Long live EFI-X
A mac is just a ABIT/ASUS motherboard with Apple OS and shell.
Apple doesn't make memory, hard drives, motherboards, wafer fabs.
My goodness, why do pure Apple people refuse to act like idiots even after the Intel transition which saved them.
Powerbook = STUDIO ON THE ROAD!
Yeah right, it was pounced over and over by the PC.
It depends on what market you're looking at. Microsoft (I don't understand people's fascination with changing the name of a company) is still doing really well in the server market and office productivity. I don't think Microsoft will really care if people stop buying new PCs, if they still have to spend £349 on Office 2k8 (to get exchange support) and £100-£200 on Vista to run those few products which aren't on the Mac.
I do support for quite a few Apple based companies. Everyone still runs Office, and everyone still uses Windows server 2k3as well for exchange support. This is the area where Microsoft is moving to, even if you go past their games business which is doing rather well.
As long as Apple has a closed hardware model, there will still be a market for Windows. While I know there is a big market for black boxes which just work, there is also a big market where people will look just at price and avoid all the extras you get from a Mac. I think this is the big area where if Apple made a midtower for $1k (and stops calling the Mini a piece of crap) they would expand their market a lot.
"Everyone still runs Office".
This is based only on the limited sample that is covered by your experience. There are plenty of companies that don't use Office, and at my University, a good 1/3 of all my colleagues and students use iWork instead of Office. So before you go making these claims, I suggest you look outside of the realm of your own navel.
"As long as Apple has a closed hardware model,..."
This is true, but you've completely missed the point, as you have with what I mention above. It's not about a closed vs. open hardware model. It's about the fact that Monoposoft (and I call them that as a reminder that the only reason they have been as dominant in the market as they are is because they forced their products down companies throats through illegal tying, and not because of the quality of their products), and specifically Bonzo keep spewing FUD and simple flat-out lies about their products and Apple's products. Again, look at the Monkey Boy's statement that Windows Mobile has 60% - 80% of the smart phone market, which is either a blatant lie or a flat out delusion. THATS what this is about, and why Apple's profit level and sales level is an embarrassment for Monoposoft; they have 10x more of the market than Apple, and yet their profits are barely double that of Apple's.
In the future, try addressing the point, not diverting to something else. Gee... sounds kind of like spending $300M on advertising to make Windows more appealing than actually trying to fix the real problems with it.
Oh, and for the supposed "stability and security" of Vista? My wife is a network security manager at a major california university, and no one in her department, NO ONE, uses Vista. They all use XP because to quote my wife "No one in my office has found Vista to be anything other than change for change's sake. It just doesn't work as well as XP."
There are people who voted for Bush twice and will still vote for McCain. This country doesn't always choose the best product, they just choose what they know and are comfortable with, even if it sucks.
Just look at the top 5 songs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle
I cannot say I agree even though I would like to . There shall always be a market for second rate. There may also be a chance it will always be larger, because many will settle for second best. Respectfully submitted.
It's fun to be the underdog and fight but with that said you have some good points some dumb ones.
VIsta vs OS9? That is stupid they are 10 years apart. Try OS9 vs Windows 98 winner OS9.
Now, on to your point about the hardware you are dead on. I think the new line of computers from Apple suck big hairy balls, I still love the OS but the hardware sucks. When my MBP dies I will be looking into building my own computer and hacking OSX on it. I will not buy a fucking glass screen computer so I could stair in the mirror all day long, and the price of a MacPro is just nonsense.
Apple is no longer the underdog, time to fight a new battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
Please PEOPLE.
Why are most ANTI MS users morons!!!
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
The 50 lb imac? Seriously? Genius?
Now a MB with no firewire (= no backup, no cam corder = a way to justify getting pro's to use macbook pro's and charging $10 grand for a piece of memory? Genius? Really?
Long live EFI-X
A mac is just a ABIT/ASUS motherboard with Apple OS and shell.
Apple doesn't make memory, hard drives, motherboards, wafer fabs.
My goodness, why do pure Apple people refuse to act like idiots even after the Intel transition which saved them.
Powerbook = STUDIO ON THE ROAD!
Yeah right, it was pounced over and over by the PC.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
Too broad a term. What does “search” mean? Apple had Sherlock search long before it was easy or fast to find files on the average PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
No it wasn't. It was one of the most reliable versions of the classic OS ever put out and served its purpose of allowing users to transition to OS X. It added the keychain (which others have copied), multiple users, software update, voice login and a string of other new features, including disc burning. Microsoft had Windows ME out at the same time. OS 9 was better.
In addition the MAJORITY of profits are not from OS X or Mac Hardware but from the iPod and iPhone (albeit with roots in OS X, which itself has roots in BSD, which is free and open source).
OS X has its roots in NextStep, which was around long before FreeBSD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvidos
So, you do realize that Apple copied their UI from Xerox long before Microsoft copied it from Apple, right?
And you do realise that the Xerox GUI was lacking many of the things we take for granted in modern GUIs today which were pioneered by the Macintosh? Overlapping Windows, proportionally spaced fonts, drop down menus etc.
5000 posts in the 4 months since you joined - that is 40 posts per day. Were they all this high quality?
Yes, they have been, although large numbers of them are identical. He obviously speaks English as a fourth or fifth language, is stoned, is mentally challenged, is a paid Microsoft shill, is batshit crazy, or some combination of those possibilities.
I lean toward the paid shill theory though, because his screenname reveals the same misunderstanding of the "I'm a Mac" commercials as MS reveals in their "I'm a PC" response: confusing being a PC with being a PC user.
In any case, his incoherent and approximately meaningless diatribes are more than tiresome, I agree.
My biggest concern as a consumer is that Apple could be tempted out of its winning formula by its increasing ability to compete with Microsoft.
I think Apple has realized it's better to focus simply on making the best..of computers, phones, etc. That includes the best innovative featuresets, the latest hardware and most logical 'under the hood' stuff / OS capabiilities.
The growth, $ and marketshare will follow... Apple's playing a better tune on all fronts. Of course having their own highly open / advanced / easy to develop for running across all their own hardware is perfect for them and ideal for consumers and most importantly developers
You be amazed how many ex-Windows / Java / Web developers I just met recently at a Vancouver, BC ad-hoc iPhone programmers meet-up - all have essentially 'switched' to developing on this platform! I bet this is happening in many cities around the world!
this isn't really possible to do but let's break out the numbers:
-if you remove the iphone and the ipod from Apple's quarter
-if you remove WinMo and zune from MS's quarter
what picture do you think this would paint overall?
Mac/Macbook/iMac sales are steadily getting better now that virtualization on Intel proc's allow for easier compatibility with essential Windows functions, but let's not kid ourselves. The Windows OS/Office slice of the pie dwarfs everything.
this isn't really possible to do but let's break out the numbers:
-if you remove the iphone and the ipod from Apple's quarter
-if you remove WinMo and zune from MS's quarter
what picture do you think this would paint overall?
Mac/Macbook/iMac sales are steadily getting better now that virtualization on Intel proc's allow for easier compatibility with essential Windows functions, but let's not kid ourselves. The Windows OS/Office slice of the pie dwarfs everything.
Software unti sales, sure, but if you only add up Apple's personal computing revenue and Microsoft's personal computing revenue wouldn't Apple still have about 1/4 of the revenue MS makes from 90% marketshare? MS' still kicks financial butt, but not nearly as much as OS marketshare would imply.
Comments
The first part makes no sense, the second part is anecdotal if true and hardly relevant, and the third part isn't true.
You're confusing Ives with Jobs.
You mean the guy who stood there with the lights on during the KEYNOTE afraid someone might steal a uni body and told them to hurry up as he eyed everyone Jobs?
hee hee
I saw it as a way for the majority shareholders to get the cash out of the company for themselves, at the expense of smaller shareholders.
I wonder who the majority shareholders are ...
What? It's not as if those with fewer shares aren't getting any money. If it really reduced share value, bigger shareholders would be hurting themselves more than smaller ones. Dividends are given out based on your number of shares. If dividends are $1 / a share, someone holding ten shares gets $10, someone with a thousand shares get $1000. It's not like the big holder gets all the money and the small ones don't get any.
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
YZ Dock? I can't find any information in its heritage, does it really predate NextStep, the company that Apple bought which introduced the dock concept?
MS invented search?
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
This is much more advanced and user friendly than Windows Restore. There is so much more going on with TM. BTW, I have had no issues with since the Leopard Betas.
You mean the guy who stood there with the lights on during the KEYNOTE afraid someone might steal a uni body and told them to hurry up as he eyed everyone Jobs?
hee hee
YZ Dock? I can't find any information in its heritage, does it really predate NextStep, the company that Apple bought which introduced the dock concept
I think if anyone gets credit prior to NeXT, it's Acorn, but the Dock has come so far from what even NeXT had. As for Google, I don't even think they were even a company when the OS X was designed.
I think calling them irrelevant just makes you a fan boy...
Right, calling me a fanboy shows how limited your vocalbulary is, come up with something else, you're not trying hard enough.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. A PC for example makes profit for both HP and Microsoft. A Mac makes profit only for Apple. (If you ignore Intel, Nvidia etc, as they make profit in both cases) Thus Microsoft is a software company and Apple is Hardware and Software in regards to Computers. I specifically stated that.
Microsoft did not do any comparison either, and neither did Analysts. Its fan driven website that is, and you are not comparing apples to apples (no pun intended). In fact its a stark reminder that the Mac is still way behind then it should be, and its the fact the iPhone and iPod are competively priced that they are doing so well.
A direct comparison of Zune vs iPod profits is welcome, and Apple obviously succeeds there. But a true comparison of the state of Microsoft would be a Windows vs OS X profits. Microsoft even beat analysts expectations, so its no suprise then that Apple had more profits as this has been expected based on analysts expectations on both sides. The whole spin has been as a failure when Microsoft and Vista is doing fine, and they are exceeding expectations with profits from Vista and Office. The ONLY reason Apple is up is do to the iPod and iPhone. I don't see how that threatens Windows, unless those users switch to Mac. Microsoft's core business is still Windows. While Apple has switched from being Apple Computer to Apple to focus on the iPod and iPhone.
Bull, Microsoft is always bringing up how irrelevant Apple is, so we have a right to compare them and last time I checked ipods have always been more expensive than the competition but yet they keep outselling them. What about iphones, they are more expensive than most phones but yet Apple manages to sell a lot of them.
Saw the title and knew interesting who had written this article. *yawn*
Who cares about Microsoft? They don't compete with Apple on any serious level. Why this obsession with them?
It's also worth pointing out that having massive stock piles of cash is generally considered a bad thing. It incurs massive opportunity costs and gives poor value of money to shareholders. That's why Microsoft got rid of their great swimming pool of cash.
Why does Microsoft have an obsession with Apple?
I agree, people are always quick to say Microsoft are rubbish yet they have done a lot of good. Office is used by everyone not because there locked into using it, but because it was better than the rest early on and continues to.
Even now they are fixing the flaws with there main problems. Yes Vista doesn't run all your old programs and it wont run on all hardware but eventually your hardware will need to be replaced anyway (even with a Mac) and the restrictions on software has made more secure than a Mac! As for speed which someone else mentioned, Vista boots up faster on my iMac that OS X does. Apple goes on about how great it is to make the hardware and software but if thats the case how does an OS made be another company that has to support a lot lot lot more hardware configurations start faster than there's!!!
What the heck are you rambling on about?
Please PEOPLE.
Why are most ANTI MS users morons!!!
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
The 50 lb imac? Seriously? Genius?
Now a MB with no firewire (= no backup, no cam corder = a way to justify getting pro's to use macbook pro's and charging $10 grand for a piece of memory? Genius? Really?
Long live EFI-X
A mac is just a ABIT/ASUS motherboard with Apple OS and shell.
Apple doesn't make memory, hard drives, motherboards, wafer fabs.
My goodness, why do pure Apple people refuse to act like idiots even after the Intel transition which saved them.
Powerbook = STUDIO ON THE ROAD!
Yeah right, it was pounced over and over by the PC.
This is pure garbage.
This is pure garbage.
agreed
Please PEOPLE.
5000 posts in the 4 months since you joined - that is 40 posts per day. Were they all this high quality?
agreed
Also agreed.
It depends on what market you're looking at. Microsoft (I don't understand people's fascination with changing the name of a company) is still doing really well in the server market and office productivity. I don't think Microsoft will really care if people stop buying new PCs, if they still have to spend £349 on Office 2k8 (to get exchange support) and £100-£200 on Vista to run those few products which aren't on the Mac.
I do support for quite a few Apple based companies. Everyone still runs Office, and everyone still uses Windows server 2k3as well for exchange support. This is the area where Microsoft is moving to, even if you go past their games business which is doing rather well.
As long as Apple has a closed hardware model, there will still be a market for Windows. While I know there is a big market for black boxes which just work, there is also a big market where people will look just at price and avoid all the extras you get from a Mac. I think this is the big area where if Apple made a midtower for $1k (and stops calling the Mini a piece of crap) they would expand their market a lot.
"Everyone still runs Office".
This is based only on the limited sample that is covered by your experience. There are plenty of companies that don't use Office, and at my University, a good 1/3 of all my colleagues and students use iWork instead of Office. So before you go making these claims, I suggest you look outside of the realm of your own navel.
"As long as Apple has a closed hardware model,..."
This is true, but you've completely missed the point, as you have with what I mention above. It's not about a closed vs. open hardware model. It's about the fact that Monoposoft (and I call them that as a reminder that the only reason they have been as dominant in the market as they are is because they forced their products down companies throats through illegal tying, and not because of the quality of their products), and specifically Bonzo keep spewing FUD and simple flat-out lies about their products and Apple's products. Again, look at the Monkey Boy's statement that Windows Mobile has 60% - 80% of the smart phone market, which is either a blatant lie or a flat out delusion. THATS what this is about, and why Apple's profit level and sales level is an embarrassment for Monoposoft; they have 10x more of the market than Apple, and yet their profits are barely double that of Apple's.
In the future, try addressing the point, not diverting to something else. Gee... sounds kind of like spending $300M on advertising to make Windows more appealing than actually trying to fix the real problems with it.
Oh, and for the supposed "stability and security" of Vista? My wife is a network security manager at a major california university, and no one in her department, NO ONE, uses Vista. They all use XP because to quote my wife "No one in my office has found Vista to be anything other than change for change's sake. It just doesn't work as well as XP."
Just look at the top 5 songs right now.
I cannot say I agree even though I would like to . There shall always be a market for second rate. There may also be a chance it will always be larger, because many will settle for second best. Respectfully submitted.
Thank you
VIsta vs OS9? That is stupid they are 10 years apart. Try OS9 vs Windows 98 winner OS9.
Now, on to your point about the hardware you are dead on. I think the new line of computers from Apple suck big hairy balls, I still love the OS but the hardware sucks. When my MBP dies I will be looking into building my own computer and hacking OSX on it. I will not buy a fucking glass screen computer so I could stair in the mirror all day long, and the price of a MacPro is just nonsense.
Apple is no longer the underdog, time to fight a new battle.
Please PEOPLE.
Why are most ANTI MS users morons!!!
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
RESTORE=Then Time Machine, when it works of course.
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
The 50 lb imac? Seriously? Genius?
Now a MB with no firewire (= no backup, no cam corder = a way to justify getting pro's to use macbook pro's and charging $10 grand for a piece of memory? Genius? Really?
Long live EFI-X
A mac is just a ABIT/ASUS motherboard with Apple OS and shell.
Apple doesn't make memory, hard drives, motherboards, wafer fabs.
My goodness, why do pure Apple people refuse to act like idiots even after the Intel transition which saved them.
Powerbook = STUDIO ON THE ROAD!
Yeah right, it was pounced over and over by the PC.
Dock = google YZ Dock, original NOT APPLE.
Original = NeXT
SEARCH=MS invented it, it came out first in OSX, then ViSTA
Too broad a term. What does “search” mean? Apple had Sherlock search long before it was easy or fast to find files on the average PC.
I know people give Vista a bad rap but OS9 anyone? R U KIDDING?
What a joke.
No it wasn't. It was one of the most reliable versions of the classic OS ever put out and served its purpose of allowing users to transition to OS X. It added the keychain (which others have copied), multiple users, software update, voice login and a string of other new features, including disc burning. Microsoft had Windows ME out at the same time. OS 9 was better.
In addition the MAJORITY of profits are not from OS X or Mac Hardware but from the iPod and iPhone (albeit with roots in OS X, which itself has roots in BSD, which is free and open source).
OS X has its roots in NextStep, which was around long before FreeBSD.
So, you do realize that Apple copied their UI from Xerox long before Microsoft copied it from Apple, right?
And you do realise that the Xerox GUI was lacking many of the things we take for granted in modern GUIs today which were pioneered by the Macintosh? Overlapping Windows, proportionally spaced fonts, drop down menus etc.
Please PEOPLE.
5000 posts in the 4 months since you joined - that is 40 posts per day. Were they all this high quality?
Yes, they have been, although large numbers of them are identical. He obviously speaks English as a fourth or fifth language, is stoned, is mentally challenged, is a paid Microsoft shill, is batshit crazy, or some combination of those possibilities.
I lean toward the paid shill theory though, because his screenname reveals the same misunderstanding of the "I'm a Mac" commercials as MS reveals in their "I'm a PC" response: confusing being a PC with being a PC user.
In any case, his incoherent and approximately meaningless diatribes are more than tiresome, I agree.
My biggest concern as a consumer is that Apple could be tempted out of its winning formula by its increasing ability to compete with Microsoft.
I think Apple has realized it's better to focus simply on making the best..of computers, phones, etc. That includes the best innovative featuresets, the latest hardware and most logical 'under the hood' stuff / OS capabiilities.
The growth, $ and marketshare will follow... Apple's playing a better tune on all fronts. Of course having their own highly open / advanced / easy to develop for running across all their own hardware is perfect for them and ideal for consumers and most importantly developers
You be amazed how many ex-Windows / Java / Web developers I just met recently at a Vancouver, BC ad-hoc iPhone programmers meet-up - all have essentially 'switched' to developing on this platform! I bet this is happening in many cities around the world!
-if you remove the iphone and the ipod from Apple's quarter
-if you remove WinMo and zune from MS's quarter
what picture do you think this would paint overall?
Mac/Macbook/iMac sales are steadily getting better now that virtualization on Intel proc's allow for easier compatibility with essential Windows functions, but let's not kid ourselves. The Windows OS/Office slice of the pie dwarfs everything.
this isn't really possible to do but let's break out the numbers:
-if you remove the iphone and the ipod from Apple's quarter
-if you remove WinMo and zune from MS's quarter
what picture do you think this would paint overall?
Mac/Macbook/iMac sales are steadily getting better now that virtualization on Intel proc's allow for easier compatibility with essential Windows functions, but let's not kid ourselves. The Windows OS/Office slice of the pie dwarfs everything.
Software unti sales, sure, but if you only add up Apple's personal computing revenue and Microsoft's personal computing revenue wouldn't Apple still have about 1/4 of the revenue MS makes from 90% marketshare? MS' still kicks financial butt, but not nearly as much as OS marketshare would imply.