A 20" flat panel from Dell : $180 for the cheap one, $260 for the ultrasharp
A 20" cinema display from Apple : $600 for the cheap one, 900$ for the LED one
comon apple, you can charge some premium for being a cute, but the DOUBLE price ?
and please : don't come telling me that Dell monitors are inferior, because they are not. I'm writing this on my MacPro, attached to dual monitor 24" ultrasharp and a 20" ultrasharp.... total price : 800$, which is cheaper than the LED from apple, for more than the double screen estate. And the image quality on both is simply stunning. My boss (a true mac fanatic) has the Apple cinema 30", and the display quality is in no way better than my Dell monitor.
when it comes to the computer itself, I gladly pay the premium. Even more : I'm PROUD on paying 20%-50% more for a desktop machine that looks good and works better. But for the displays, I can't bring myself to it. I'd look like a moron behind a $1600 dual 20" monitor.
I don't know what they are smoking, but apple should get its act together on the monitor price front. It is just ridiculous.
Strangely enough, the price difference is percentually LESS on the 30" screens : $1800 for the apple one, $1400 for the cheapest 30" Dell...
PS : yea, I registered an appleinsider account to vent my frustrations
I haven't read all the posts after yours, so it's possible that your errors have already been pointed out, but incase they weren't, I'll ask:
Have you read the title and body of the story?
You are aware that this isn't a 20" monitor as you seem to assume in the beginning of your post. What's the point of comparing the price of an 24" LED BL 1920 x1200 monitor to non LED 20" 1680 x 1050 monitors, when they are so much cheaper than any 24" model?
Viewsonic has a new 22" monitor, the VLED221wm, which is only 1680 x 1050, and sells for an average of $440. This a cheap model, as is most of Viewsonic's products these days, sadly enough.
Samsungs 24" model, the XL24 sells for about $2,230, and lists for $3,629.
Dell's Ultrasharp was great monitors - until the latest models now using TN panels.
Some people (including me) are actually looking for older models Ultrasharp. The current line is no better than their E-series. The only difference is the additional ports.
The only exception is the 30" Ultrasharp, which still uses S-IPS panel. That's the one I want to get (before they change to TN, like the rest of the line).
By the way, I have three Ultrasharp's - a 18", 20" 4x3, and a 20" wide. All were bought at $400 to $500 range. All well worth the price. I have changed many computers, but the monitors stay. A good quality monitor is well worth the price. And no, I don't mind the monitor costing more than the computer itself.
I would rather pay $500 for the 20" S-IPS Ultrasharp (older model) than $200 for the TN (current model) ones.
By the way, the difference between panels is well discussed among PC users. I am a little surprised that it seems PC users know more/care more about quality than some Mac users.
Some Pc users know more about displays than some Mac users, and some Mac users know more about displays than most PC users.
We discuss displays here as well. You are just too new to know anything about it, even if you have been invisible before you signed up.
the blindness of the fanboys will always haunt these boards... it's just plain impossible to reason with them logically.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
the blindness of the fanboys will always haunt these boards... it's just plain impossible to reason with them logically.
And exactly, what blindness is this?
If you don't know the difference between LED backlighting and standard backlighting, and how it affects prices, aren't you the one with the problem here?
In searching for an alternative to the glass-covered new 24", came across a new Eizo 24" LED back-lit monitor (matte screen - also touts energy-saving) .
The Eizo specs seem the same as 'known' specs of the new Apple unit. Anyone know if the panel mfg is the same?
I'm reading the Ezio as about $800. Interestingly enough, while the monitor is guaranteed for 5 years, the panel and backlight is only good for three years.
The Hp isn't a LED backlit display, so doesn't count.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
Dell makes some good displays, and they make some bad ones. It's not that simple.
Apple's line of displays were excellent when they first came out. You can look for the reviews. But for whatever reason, Apple has chosen to not update them. They are now old by industry standards. So yes, newer monitors have gotten better, while Apple's remain the same.
People have to stop calling others fanboys just because they don't agree.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
SO let me get it, you want Apple's monitor but don't want to pay their price so you justify this by bringing cheap monitors to prove your point.
Just reading Eizo review on German site lists at 560 Euro = $706.
I'd like to know if it's the same panel as used in the Apple LED 24".
Listed HP due re: H-IPS screen, excellent color (if you're involved in image work) and relatively low price compared to matte Apple Cinema units (although, supposedly all AC will be glass covered in '09)
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I'm reading the Ezio as about $800. Interestingly enough, while the monitor is guaranteed for 5 years, the panel and backlight is only good for three years.
The Hp isn't a LED backlit display, so doesn't count.
So far the only monitor that comes close to the new Apple LCD specs in the Lenovo's ThinkVison L2440X which sells for $750.* Besides the fact that the ThinkVision hasn't gotten quite qood reviews, it is without a built in camera, and something to really ponder about, it is about 4 pounds lighter.
I would suggest that aluminum vs. plastic does have added value.
Of course there is LeCies 724 LCD† which when it arrives costs $2,650. It does however, come with a hood, Calibration Software and Colormeter. My experience with LaCie's monitors tells me these should be well worth the price if you are doing high-end colour proofing. But so would Apples Cinema displays. Can't say that for Dells For sure not the current models.
OOPs. The EIZO's FlexScan EV@$11W at $790** is yet another one coming and it was expected to hit the Japanese market in October. Don't know the weight, however the stand certainly looks sturdy and as far as we know, no built in camera.
Apple's line of displays were excellent when they first came out. You can look for the reviews. But for whatever reason, Apple has chosen to not update them. They are now old by industry standards. So yes, newer monitors have gotten better, while Apple's remain the same.
Can't say I quite agree.
In side-by-side comparisons, most reviews certainly pointed out that the Apple Cinema Displays were more often more expensive. However, they would also conclude that if price wasn't the object, buy it.
Tue Nov 27 14:16:42 PST 2007 Re: NEC MultiSync LCD205WXM monitor
This review would have benefited from the listing of what panel this NEC uses, (TN, PVA, IPS, etc.) This specific monitor uses a TN panel, which we all know is the bottom of the barrel in quality and color reproduction. (Although NEC's are well above average for LCD's.)
…the reason why the Apple Monitors are superior with color is because they use S-IPS panels. IPS's are made for high end color, which is why they generally have slower response times. (Doesn't matter since we want to edit photos and design layouts, not play games.) PVA's come in second with a nice mix of color and speed.
Eizo's are by far the best for graphics professionals, but the cost is very high. You get what you pay for. Apple's are up there as well in cost, mostly because of that panel. Now, the only exclusion is that alot of the Eizo's use PVA's, but you will be hard spent to find a PVA by another brand that can come anywhere NEAR an IPS.
If you can't afford an Eizo, go for an Apple, or my favorite - NEC. Dell's 2007WFP started out as an IPS, but after the reviews rolled in, they quietly replaced them with less expensive PVA's... so now its a panel lottery for which one you'd actually get. Google it to get the appropriate serial numbers so you know what to look for.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
Calm down. We do have many years' history of Apple Cinema displays to go by and some of us have many years' history with other manufacturers' displays and know something of panel technology and know what to look for in a quality panel.
Quote:
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
And how does video compare between the two? Instead of repeating yourself, you could have provided some new information such as this.
Quote:
noone agrees !
It's a question of whether we believe your judgement enough to just let it slide, not whether we agree.
Don't forget, you were completely wrong to compare a 20" to a 24".
Just reading Eizo review on German site lists at 560 Euro = $706.
I'd like to know if it's the same panel as used in the Apple LED 24".
Listed HP due re: H-IPS screen, excellent color (if you're involved in image work) and relatively low price compared to matte Apple Cinema units (although, supposedly all AC will be glass covered in '09)
You can't make a direct comparison between prices overseas (to the US) for a direct price comparison. The price here is higher for this.
And the Hp, as I already stated, is NOT LED based backlighting.
PR says that the 24" ACD is geared for the MacBooks; however, it seems neither the monitor nor the MacBooks come with a connecting cable which is an additional $29. Isn't that adding insult to injury?
Not true according to Apple's web site:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
Connections and expansion
Three self-powered USB 2.0 ports
One cable with three connectors: Mini DisplayPort, MagSafe, USB 2.0
After having used this new MacBook for a few weeks, I really don't think I would buy another display that isn't LED backlit. I have an Ultrasharp next to it (and when it isn't crashing due to that MacBook external display bug), the LED just looks better, it is a nicer/crisper light.
Having said that - 999$ for the 24' (apple Canada) seems a bit crazy. Is Samsung the only other company that makes LED backlit displays? If so, the Apple 24' LED is a relative bargain, although it would be nice to have the option to use it as something other than just a monitor, the mini DP is a bit limiting if you want to use it as a non computer display, unless I am missing something.
In side-by-side comparisons, most reviews certainly pointed out that the Apple Cinema Displays were more often more expensive. However, they would also conclude that if price wasn't the object, buy it.
At the time, they had the best IQ. That's the main reason why people were told to buy them if they would pay the extra price.
But, actually, even that isn't quite true. Every time Apple had come out with a monitor, they were CHEAPER than any of the others, if even any others were out that matched them.
The problem is that because Apple doesn't come out with new models every 6 to 9 months as some of these others do, their prices, despite the drops, end UP being more expensive.
...so if it's half price it's considered a 'cheapie' ??
....not a good argument
give me some real facts that make this Apple monitor TWICE as better than a Samsung 'cheapie'
Its difficult to get you to understand if you don't first understand that all monitors are not created equal. The cheap model is cheap because it uses an inferior panel. The expensive models are expensive because they use a superior panel.
Comments
A 20" flat panel from Dell : $180 for the cheap one, $260 for the ultrasharp
A 20" cinema display from Apple : $600 for the cheap one, 900$ for the LED one
comon apple, you can charge some premium for being a cute, but the DOUBLE price ?
and please : don't come telling me that Dell monitors are inferior, because they are not. I'm writing this on my MacPro, attached to dual monitor 24" ultrasharp and a 20" ultrasharp.... total price : 800$, which is cheaper than the LED from apple, for more than the double screen estate. And the image quality on both is simply stunning. My boss (a true mac fanatic) has the Apple cinema 30", and the display quality is in no way better than my Dell monitor.
when it comes to the computer itself, I gladly pay the premium. Even more : I'm PROUD on paying 20%-50% more for a desktop machine that looks good and works better. But for the displays, I can't bring myself to it. I'd look like a moron behind a $1600 dual 20" monitor.
I don't know what they are smoking, but apple should get its act together on the monitor price front. It is just ridiculous.
Strangely enough, the price difference is percentually LESS on the 30" screens : $1800 for the apple one, $1400 for the cheapest 30" Dell...
PS : yea, I registered an appleinsider account to vent my frustrations
I haven't read all the posts after yours, so it's possible that your errors have already been pointed out, but incase they weren't, I'll ask:
Have you read the title and body of the story?
You are aware that this isn't a 20" monitor as you seem to assume in the beginning of your post. What's the point of comparing the price of an 24" LED BL 1920 x1200 monitor to non LED 20" 1680 x 1050 monitors, when they are so much cheaper than any 24" model?
Viewsonic has a new 22" monitor, the VLED221wm, which is only 1680 x 1050, and sells for an average of $440. This a cheap model, as is most of Viewsonic's products these days, sadly enough.
Samsungs 24" model, the XL24 sells for about $2,230, and lists for $3,629.
The Hp LP2480zx 24" costs about $2,440.
Apple's model is pretty cheap actually.
You should learn to compare like to like.
Dell's Ultrasharp was great monitors - until the latest models now using TN panels.
Some people (including me) are actually looking for older models Ultrasharp. The current line is no better than their E-series. The only difference is the additional ports.
The only exception is the 30" Ultrasharp, which still uses S-IPS panel. That's the one I want to get (before they change to TN, like the rest of the line).
By the way, I have three Ultrasharp's - a 18", 20" 4x3, and a 20" wide. All were bought at $400 to $500 range. All well worth the price. I have changed many computers, but the monitors stay. A good quality monitor is well worth the price. And no, I don't mind the monitor costing more than the computer itself.
I would rather pay $500 for the 20" S-IPS Ultrasharp (older model) than $200 for the TN (current model) ones.
By the way, the difference between panels is well discussed among PC users. I am a little surprised that it seems PC users know more/care more about quality than some Mac users.
Some Pc users know more about displays than some Mac users, and some Mac users know more about displays than most PC users.
We discuss displays here as well. You are just too new to know anything about it, even if you have been invisible before you signed up.
the blindness of the fanboys will always haunt these boards...
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
...so if it's half price it's considered a 'cheapie' ??
....not a good argument
give me some real facts that make this Apple monitor TWICE as better than a Samsung 'cheapie'
You're saying that that Samsung had LED backlight.
You know, unless a monitor does, you aren't saying anything relevant.
The only valid comparison is a 24" 1920 x 1080 LED backlit monitor.
Nothing else matters.
learn about display technologies, fool.
Please keep personal attacks out of it. You can say his views are foolish.
the blindness of the fanboys will always haunt these boards...
And exactly, what blindness is this?
If you don't know the difference between LED backlighting and standard backlighting, and how it affects prices, aren't you the one with the problem here?
In searching for an alternative to the glass-covered new 24", came across a new Eizo 24" LED back-lit monitor (matte screen - also touts energy-saving) .
The Eizo specs seem the same as 'known' specs of the new Apple unit. Anyone know if the panel mfg is the same?
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/ev2411w/index.asp
Supposed to cost about $700 w/ 5-yr warranty.
Also very-much like the HP LP2465w (H-IPS) 24" (matte), 3yr warranty $574.00
http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-pa...a~7CMPK0P6.htm
I'm reading the Ezio as about $800. Interestingly enough, while the monitor is guaranteed for 5 years, the panel and backlight is only good for three years.
The Hp isn't a LED backlit display, so doesn't count.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
Dell makes some good displays, and they make some bad ones. It's not that simple.
Apple's line of displays were excellent when they first came out. You can look for the reviews. But for whatever reason, Apple has chosen to not update them. They are now old by industry standards. So yes, newer monitors have gotten better, while Apple's remain the same.
People have to stop calling others fanboys just because they don't agree.
Should we call you a troll?
It's the same thing.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
..
..
noone agrees !
insane
i just hope they come to their senses, because if they would, price might come down. As long as there are sufficient fanboys saturating the buyer pipeline, there is no need for apple to lower their prices.
SO let me get it, you want Apple's monitor but don't want to pay their price so you justify this by bringing cheap monitors to prove your point.
I'd like to know if it's the same panel as used in the Apple LED 24".
Listed HP due re: H-IPS screen, excellent color (if you're involved in image work) and relatively low price compared to matte Apple Cinema units (although, supposedly all AC will be glass covered in '09)
I'm reading the Ezio as about $800. Interestingly enough, while the monitor is guaranteed for 5 years, the panel and backlight is only good for three years.
The Hp isn't a LED backlit display, so doesn't count.
So far the only monitor that comes close to the new Apple LCD specs in the Lenovo's ThinkVison L2440X which sells for $750.* Besides the fact that the ThinkVision hasn't gotten quite qood reviews, it is without a built in camera, and something to really ponder about, it is about 4 pounds lighter.
I would suggest that aluminum vs. plastic does have added value.
Of course there is LeCies 724 LCD† which when it arrives costs $2,650. It does however, come with a hood, Calibration Software and Colormeter. My experience with LaCie's monitors tells me these should be well worth the price if you are doing high-end colour proofing. But so would Apples Cinema displays. Can't say that for Dells For sure not the current models.
OOPs. The EIZO's FlexScan EV@$11W at $790** is yet another one coming and it was expected to hit the Japanese market in October. Don't know the weight, however the stand certainly looks sturdy and as far as we know, no built in camera.
* http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...3EAE93B7B4AEF6
† http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11094
** http://dcuser.net/others/eizo-led-ba...n-ev2411w.html
OOPs. The EIZO's FlexScan EV@$11W at $790** is yet another one coming and it was expected to hit the Japanese market in October.
** http://dcuser.net/others/eizo-led-ba...n-ev2411w.html
The article says the price in Japan is JPY$83,000, which translates today to US$855 and doesn't include import costs.
Apple's line of displays were excellent when they first came out. You can look for the reviews. But for whatever reason, Apple has chosen to not update them. They are now old by industry standards. So yes, newer monitors have gotten better, while Apple's remain the same.
Can't say I quite agree.
In side-by-side comparisons, most reviews certainly pointed out that the Apple Cinema Displays were more often more expensive. However, they would also conclude that if price wasn't the object, buy it.
And well worth repeating:
If you are serious on getting a new monitor, perhaps this particular response from jackdesign in a Macworld review http://www.macworld.com/article/6119...wxm.html?t=218 will help direct you
IN PARTICULAR, jackedesign comment*:
Tue Nov 27 14:16:42 PST 2007 Re: NEC MultiSync LCD205WXM monitor
This review would have benefited from the listing of what panel this NEC uses, (TN, PVA, IPS, etc.) This specific monitor uses a TN panel, which we all know is the bottom of the barrel in quality and color reproduction. (Although NEC's are well above average for LCD's.)
…the reason why the Apple Monitors are superior with color is because they use S-IPS panels. IPS's are made for high end color, which is why they generally have slower response times. (Doesn't matter since we want to edit photos and design layouts, not play games.) PVA's come in second with a nice mix of color and speed.
Eizo's are by far the best for graphics professionals, but the cost is very high. You get what you pay for. Apple's are up there as well in cost, mostly because of that panel. Now, the only exclusion is that alot of the Eizo's use PVA's, but you will be hard spent to find a PVA by another brand that can come anywhere NEAR an IPS.
If you can't afford an Eizo, go for an Apple, or my favorite - NEC. Dell's 2007WFP started out as an IPS, but after the reviews rolled in, they quietly replaced them with less expensive PVA's... so now its a panel lottery for which one you'd actually get. Google it to get the appropriate serial numbers so you know what to look for.
one more thing...heres one place to look to see what monitors use what panels. http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php (just type what panel you are looking for in the search field... i.e. IPS) *http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1241144
The article says the price in Japan is JPY$83,000, which translates today to US$855 and doesn't include import costs.
Right at this moment it is $860US.
That Insight Camera is starting to look like a real bargain.
my thought exactly... i started the whole discussion a few posts earlier, and it is insane how the fanboys keep claiming that the apple monitors are better, when the new LED one is not even available !!!!!
Calm down. We do have many years' history of Apple Cinema displays to go by and some of us have many years' history with other manufacturers' displays and know something of panel technology and know what to look for in a quality panel.
I repeated 3 times that my Dell is equal in quality to the cinema display STANDING NEXT TO IT... a first-hand comparision.
And how does video compare between the two? Instead of repeating yourself, you could have provided some new information such as this.
noone agrees !
It's a question of whether we believe your judgement enough to just let it slide, not whether we agree.
Don't forget, you were completely wrong to compare a 20" to a 24".
Just reading Eizo review on German site lists at 560 Euro = $706.
I'd like to know if it's the same panel as used in the Apple LED 24".
Listed HP due re: H-IPS screen, excellent color (if you're involved in image work) and relatively low price compared to matte Apple Cinema units (although, supposedly all AC will be glass covered in '09)
You can't make a direct comparison between prices overseas (to the US) for a direct price comparison. The price here is higher for this.
And the Hp, as I already stated, is NOT LED based backlighting.
PR says that the 24" ACD is geared for the MacBooks; however, it seems neither the monitor nor the MacBooks come with a connecting cable which is an additional $29. Isn't that adding insult to injury?
Not true according to Apple's web site:
Connections and expansion
Having said that - 999$ for the 24' (apple Canada) seems a bit crazy. Is Samsung the only other company that makes LED backlit displays? If so, the Apple 24' LED is a relative bargain, although it would be nice to have the option to use it as something other than just a monitor, the mini DP is a bit limiting if you want to use it as a non computer display, unless I am missing something.
Can't say I quite agree.
In side-by-side comparisons, most reviews certainly pointed out that the Apple Cinema Displays were more often more expensive. However, they would also conclude that if price wasn't the object, buy it.
At the time, they had the best IQ. That's the main reason why people were told to buy them if they would pay the extra price.
But, actually, even that isn't quite true. Every time Apple had come out with a monitor, they were CHEAPER than any of the others, if even any others were out that matched them.
The problem is that because Apple doesn't come out with new models every 6 to 9 months as some of these others do, their prices, despite the drops, end UP being more expensive.
[I]If you are serious on getting a new monitor, perhaps this particular response from jackdesign in a Macworld review (http://www.macworld.com/article/6119...wxm.html?t=218) will help direct you
You'll have to try that again. I got a 404 error when I tried it.
...so if it's half price it's considered a 'cheapie' ??
....not a good argument
give me some real facts that make this Apple monitor TWICE as better than a Samsung 'cheapie'
Its difficult to get you to understand if you don't first understand that all monitors are not created equal. The cheap model is cheap because it uses an inferior panel. The expensive models are expensive because they use a superior panel.