Apple should just remove the ability to purchase retail copies of OSX. ...
I've often wondered why they don't do this.
The box would have to still be sold or no one could upgrade their machines, but it does seem like simply putting the word "upgrade" on the box would stifle all arguments definitively.
- If the OS is not actually for sale, then it's a given that you are stealing it when you install it on another machine.
- If it's an upgrade to computers already running some version of OS-X, then you don't need all that ambiguous junk about "Apple certified" or "Apple branded" computers.
By having the retail box, especially by having two versions (full and upgrade), they are confusing the issue unnecessarily and leaving themselves open to these kinds of lawsuits.
Apple should put a stop to this by removing from open sales the retail upgrade version of their OSX system. Period!
All upgrades can be done through software update or in special circumstances where the customer doesn't have a broadband connection they could order the DVD by phone with a proper hardware serial number or have it installed in their stores by an Apple authorized technician. If Apple doesn't do this, they will have no other choice but to put copy protection on the software to stop Psystar and the other foreign based counterfeiters. It'll only get worse if they don't.
I don't agree with you guys, or I'd happily change the title. And we're back to this nonsense again, Spam? Claiming we don't do our homework? Claiming speculation when there is none?
There's nothing in the article that's speculative. I value you as a member of the community, but please man... All the title implies is that the existence of Psystar has "spawned" ( essentially given birth to) another Mac copycat dealer.
I guess we could use "emboldens" but I still don't agree that there's something wrong with our title.
K
@K: I agree with you. That's the way I read it. The article doesn't imply a connection other than giving birth to a copycat.
I don't know what the first phrasing Kasper used was, but "emboldens" in no way shape or form implies a connection between the companies. You are just wrong to think so.
Not to drag this out, but this word choice also implies a direct effect of Psystar on this company's decision making.. If someone at this new company stated, "We saw what Psystar did and we thought this looked like a great time to move into a new market", then you have proof that supports the claim. The article could have stated that "unnamed sources within the company have said...".
Without a source, this is a connection being made in the mind of the author. It's not rocket science.
What about the fact that the prices quoted arent right you only save 200 dollars off list to buy one of these clones id rather have the apple unit frankly.
Wouldn't make any difference. Copy protection of any form can be cracked easily. Not selling copies doesn't matter as your mac comes with a restore disc which will be posted online for download.
Hackintosh's are easy to build, as you can see other companies are forming to sell this desktops running OSX. Really the only choice for apple is to mount a pile of legal fees fighting all these or offer a midrange tower that people want and lower prices. Or make OSX available for other computers. Until they do that these companies will pop up all over and people will still build hackintosh's.
I suppose they could use PA Semi to put their OS on a encrypted firmware chip. Sure it could be cracked but cracking every individual machine wound not be commercially viable and easier to sue in court.
Apple should put a stop to this by removing from open sales the retail upgrade version of their OSX system. Period!
All upgrades can be done through software update or in special circumstances where the customer doesn't have a broadband connection they could order the DVD by phone with a proper hardware serial number or have it installed in their stores by an Apple authorized technician. If Apple doesn't do this, they will have no other choice but to put copy protection on the software to stop Psystar and the other foreign based counterfeiters. It'll only get worse if they don't.
Are you listening Apple?
1. Psystar broke copyright when they hacked official updates and redistributed them to their
clients. Implementing copy protection would not ward off companies that are willing to illegally alter something to get what they want. Hello!? DRM only hurts authorized users! Psystar = Pirates
2. Can you imagine having to install 10.5 then having to sit and wait for 10.6 to download, then
install, and repeating for every subsequent OS until you replace the machine? If I have to do a format of my machine I want to re-install the latest OS and have to sit through only the point upgrades (which takes a good amount of time themselves!).
3. Apple's servers go down on release days for some versions of iPhone OS distributions because
of too much traffic! And you want to distribute full OSs? And make paying customers haul in their whole dang MacPro, or iMac just to install an OS if they do not have BB or do not want to download it? Release day will be fun!
Embolden/spawn sounds OK to me. Psystar's actions have obviously helped fuel the rise of other equally stupid companies, whether direct or indirect.
I thought there was another company somewhere else in South America that tried this before Psystar did. Just that they were shut down very quickly that they were hardly noticed, I think there were two AI articles about it and then that was it. It seems they tried to sell on eBay or something like that, it is pretty easy to get eBay to shut down an infringing auction once you're a verified rights owner.
I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there was a weak causal link, where news of Psystar's activities was enough to convince someone else to give it a try. I don't know how well it can be prosecuted in Argentina, though I'm sure Apple will see what their options are.
You don't have to hack official updates. You can download them direct from apple
Yes. They downloaded them, hacked them to work on Psystar machines, then distributed them to Psystar machine owners.
Apple sued Psystar for copyright infringement not the use of OS X on unofficial hardware. They let it go for so long because they didn't have a solid legal ground (only the EULA) until Psystar distributed altered versions of the updates.
1. Psystar broke copyright when they hacked official updates and redistributed them to their
clients. Implementing copy protection would not ward off companies that are willing to illegally alter something to get what they want. Hello!? DRM only hurts authorized users! Psystar = Pirates
2. Can you imagine having to install 10.5 then having to sit and wait for 10.6 to download, then
install, and repeating for every subsequent OS until you replace the machine? If I have to do a format of my machine I want to re-install the latest OS and have to sit through only the point upgrades (which takes a good amount of time themselves!).
3. Apple's servers go down on release days for some versions of iPhone OS distributions because
of too much traffic! And you want to distribute full OSs? And make paying customers haul in their whole dang MacPro, or iMac just to install an OS if they do not have BB or do not want to download it? Release day will be fun!
Because you don't like this solution doesn't mean it won't work. Installs don't have to go point to point. They can be make to upgrade straight through to the most recent. Apple has done this in other installs and they can do it for the OS. I have download xCode 3.0 which is much larger than the Leopard download and it didn't take more than 10 minutes. I don't have the faster BB connection. And about overloading Apple's servers they scale for that besides I doubt OS upgrade purchases will add much bandwidth to the equation. It can work.
However, I speculate (as I mentioned above) that Apple will probably go the firmware chip way in the future because it will give them security and faster booting. They had this using Basic in the beginning and it worked very well. Just my thoughts.
Yes. They downloaded them, hacked them to work on Psystar machines, then distributed them to Psystar machine owners.
Apple sued Psystar for copyright infringement not the use of OS X on unofficial hardware. They let it go for so long because they didn't have a solid legal ground (only the EULA) until Psystar distributed altered versions of the updates.
Again, you do NOT have to hack updates to work on a hackintosh, which is what pystars are. They can be installed directly from software update. Trust me.
Some point releases require that you manually download the combo update direct from apple and then run a script while you install it.
But no updates have to be modified.
Pystar has completely disabled this type of update from software update and thus hasen't hacked anything.
I thought there was another company somewhere else in South America that tried this before Psystar did. Just that they were shut down very quickly that they were hardly noticed, I think there were two AI articles about it and then that was it. It seems they tried to sell on eBay or something like that, it is pretty easy to get eBay to shut down an infringing auction once you're a verified rights owner.
I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there was a weak causal link, where news of Psystar's activities was enough to convince someone else to give it a try. I don't know how well it can be prosecuted in Argentina, though I'm sure Apple will see what their options are.
... those are fairly rubbish specs for the price. Dell's $949 desktop has a quad-core 2.66 GHz Core i7, 3 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD, 16x DVD burner and 256 MB ATI Radeon 3450 HD.
I think that we need to keep in mind that this is in Argentina. You may be able to build or buy that here in the US for a better price, but the computer is not being sold here.
I was curious so looked up the price of an iMac in Argentina. It's 6299 Argentinian Pesos, which converts (at today's exchange rate of 3.45 to 1) to about $1800. So, the headless OpeniMac undercuts it by half. That's a pretty steep discount to an Argentinian, I reckon. I bet some people would be willing to buy these, just like Psystar got some willing buyers.
I think Apple should set up an App store for the mac, and then off the OSX upgrades through that store, that should stop the clone makers.
Then they jail break their macs and get the software elsewhere. You can't stop any of this. Apple has to sell the products people want at prices that are the same or cheaper than these clones. Then people will buy from apple instead. That is the only option. You can talk about copy protection and other things all you want but the fact remains you can get around all of it.
I suppose they could use PA Semi to put their OS on a encrypted firmware chip. Sure it could be cracked but cracking every individual machine wound not be commercially viable and easier to sue in court.
The old mac will not have the chip and apple will shooting them selfs big time by locking out all the new intel macs on the new os.
Then they jail break their macs and get the software elsewhere. You can't stop any of this. Apple has to sell the products people want at prices that are the same or cheaper than these clones. Then people will buy from apple instead. That is the only option. You can talk about copy protection and other things all you want but the fact remains you can get around all of it.
But who says people are buying these computers to even affect Apple's business?
Comments
Apple should just remove the ability to purchase retail copies of OSX. ...
I've often wondered why they don't do this.
The box would have to still be sold or no one could upgrade their machines, but it does seem like simply putting the word "upgrade" on the box would stifle all arguments definitively.
- If the OS is not actually for sale, then it's a given that you are stealing it when you install it on another machine.
- If it's an upgrade to computers already running some version of OS-X, then you don't need all that ambiguous junk about "Apple certified" or "Apple branded" computers.
By having the retail box, especially by having two versions (full and upgrade), they are confusing the issue unnecessarily and leaving themselves open to these kinds of lawsuits.
All upgrades can be done through software update or in special circumstances where the customer doesn't have a broadband connection they could order the DVD by phone with a proper hardware serial number or have it installed in their stores by an Apple authorized technician. If Apple doesn't do this, they will have no other choice but to put copy protection on the software to stop Psystar and the other foreign based counterfeiters. It'll only get worse if they don't.
Are you listening Apple?
I don't agree with you guys, or I'd happily change the title. And we're back to this nonsense again, Spam? Claiming we don't do our homework? Claiming speculation when there is none?
There's nothing in the article that's speculative. I value you as a member of the community, but please man... All the title implies is that the existence of Psystar has "spawned" ( essentially given birth to) another Mac copycat dealer.
I guess we could use "emboldens" but I still don't agree that there's something wrong with our title.
K
@K: I agree with you. That's the way I read it. The article doesn't imply a connection other than giving birth to a copycat.
This is just wrong.
I don't know what the first phrasing Kasper used was, but "emboldens" in no way shape or form implies a connection between the companies. You are just wrong to think so.
Not to drag this out, but this word choice also implies a direct effect of Psystar on this company's decision making.. If someone at this new company stated, "We saw what Psystar did and we thought this looked like a great time to move into a new market", then you have proof that supports the claim. The article could have stated that "unnamed sources within the company have said...".
Without a source, this is a connection being made in the mind of the author. It's not rocket science.
Wouldn't make any difference. Copy protection of any form can be cracked easily. Not selling copies doesn't matter as your mac comes with a restore disc which will be posted online for download.
Hackintosh's are easy to build, as you can see other companies are forming to sell this desktops running OSX. Really the only choice for apple is to mount a pile of legal fees fighting all these or offer a midrange tower that people want and lower prices. Or make OSX available for other computers. Until they do that these companies will pop up all over and people will still build hackintosh's.
I suppose they could use PA Semi to put their OS on a encrypted firmware chip. Sure it could be cracked but cracking every individual machine wound not be commercially viable and easier to sue in court.
Apple should put a stop to this by removing from open sales the retail upgrade version of their OSX system. Period!
All upgrades can be done through software update or in special circumstances where the customer doesn't have a broadband connection they could order the DVD by phone with a proper hardware serial number or have it installed in their stores by an Apple authorized technician. If Apple doesn't do this, they will have no other choice but to put copy protection on the software to stop Psystar and the other foreign based counterfeiters. It'll only get worse if they don't.
Are you listening Apple?
1. Psystar broke copyright when they hacked official updates and redistributed them to their2. Can you imagine having to install 10.5 then having to sit and wait for 10.6 to download, then3. Apple's servers go down on release days for some versions of iPhone OS distributions because
Not to drag this out, but ...
I think when it comes down to it, it's also fairly impossible to prove that we even exist, (at least to prove it beyond all doubt.)
Embolden/spawn sounds OK to me. Psystar's actions have obviously helped fuel the rise of other equally stupid companies, whether direct or indirect.
I thought there was another company somewhere else in South America that tried this before Psystar did. Just that they were shut down very quickly that they were hardly noticed, I think there were two AI articles about it and then that was it. It seems they tried to sell on eBay or something like that, it is pretty easy to get eBay to shut down an infringing auction once you're a verified rights owner.
I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there was a weak causal link, where news of Psystar's activities was enough to convince someone else to give it a try. I don't know how well it can be prosecuted in Argentina, though I'm sure Apple will see what their options are.
1. Psystar broke copyright when they hacked official updates and redistributed them to their[INDENT]clients.
You don't have to hack official updates. You can download them direct from apple
You don't have to hack official updates. You can download them direct from apple
Yes. They downloaded them, hacked them to work on Psystar machines, then distributed them to Psystar machine owners.
Apple sued Psystar for copyright infringement not the use of OS X on unofficial hardware. They let it go for so long because they didn't have a solid legal ground (only the EULA) until Psystar distributed altered versions of the updates.
1. Psystar broke copyright when they hacked official updates and redistributed them to their2. Can you imagine having to install 10.5 then having to sit and wait for 10.6 to download, then3. Apple's servers go down on release days for some versions of iPhone OS distributions because
Because you don't like this solution doesn't mean it won't work. Installs don't have to go point to point. They can be make to upgrade straight through to the most recent. Apple has done this in other installs and they can do it for the OS. I have download xCode 3.0 which is much larger than the Leopard download and it didn't take more than 10 minutes. I don't have the faster BB connection. And about overloading Apple's servers they scale for that besides I doubt OS upgrade purchases will add much bandwidth to the equation. It can work.
However, I speculate (as I mentioned above) that Apple will probably go the firmware chip way in the future because it will give them security and faster booting. They had this using Basic in the beginning and it worked very well. Just my thoughts.
Yes. They downloaded them, hacked them to work on Psystar machines, then distributed them to Psystar machine owners.
Apple sued Psystar for copyright infringement not the use of OS X on unofficial hardware. They let it go for so long because they didn't have a solid legal ground (only the EULA) until Psystar distributed altered versions of the updates.
Again, you do NOT have to hack updates to work on a hackintosh, which is what pystars are. They can be installed directly from software update. Trust me.
Some point releases require that you manually download the combo update direct from apple and then run a script while you install it.
But no updates have to be modified.
Pystar has completely disabled this type of update from software update and thus hasen't hacked anything.
I thought there was another company somewhere else in South America that tried this before Psystar did. Just that they were shut down very quickly that they were hardly noticed, I think there were two AI articles about it and then that was it. It seems they tried to sell on eBay or something like that, it is pretty easy to get eBay to shut down an infringing auction once you're a verified rights owner.
I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there was a weak causal link, where news of Psystar's activities was enough to convince someone else to give it a try. I don't know how well it can be prosecuted in Argentina, though I'm sure Apple will see what their options are.
There was Open Tech out of New Zealand.
... those are fairly rubbish specs for the price. Dell's $949 desktop has a quad-core 2.66 GHz Core i7, 3 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD, 16x DVD burner and 256 MB ATI Radeon 3450 HD.
I think that we need to keep in mind that this is in Argentina. You may be able to build or buy that here in the US for a better price, but the computer is not being sold here.
I was curious so looked up the price of an iMac in Argentina. It's 6299 Argentinian Pesos, which converts (at today's exchange rate of 3.45 to 1) to about $1800. So, the headless OpeniMac undercuts it by half. That's a pretty steep discount to an Argentinian, I reckon. I bet some people would be willing to buy these, just like Psystar got some willing buyers.
Here's the link to the Argentinian Apple site: http://www.macstation.com.ar/store/i...cat=13&code=97
Exchange rate: http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/ARS/USD/G/30
-Brandon
I think Apple should set up an App store for the mac, and then off the OSX upgrades through that store, that should stop the clone makers.
Then they jail break their macs and get the software elsewhere. You can't stop any of this. Apple has to sell the products people want at prices that are the same or cheaper than these clones. Then people will buy from apple instead. That is the only option. You can talk about copy protection and other things all you want but the fact remains you can get around all of it.
I think when it comes down to it, it's also fairly impossible to prove that we even exist, (at least to prove it beyond all doubt.)
But you can call another source to confirm that you and I do exist.
I suppose they could use PA Semi to put their OS on a encrypted firmware chip. Sure it could be cracked but cracking every individual machine wound not be commercially viable and easier to sue in court.
The old mac will not have the chip and apple will shooting them selfs big time by locking out all the new intel macs on the new os.
Then they jail break their macs and get the software elsewhere. You can't stop any of this. Apple has to sell the products people want at prices that are the same or cheaper than these clones. Then people will buy from apple instead. That is the only option. You can talk about copy protection and other things all you want but the fact remains you can get around all of it.
But who says people are buying these computers to even affect Apple's business?